Thank you. Mr. Miller. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I assume you werent calling for a larger bargaining unit . No, i was not, but it does raise, mr. Miller i appreciate that. I want to make it clear. Continuity of interests, the community of interests. Mr. Eilers i want that thank you very much for your testimony because you testified in very straightforward manner about the issues that the students at northwestern were raising that are endemic, i believe to the football programs around the country. That really was, as you pointed out, security of your scholarship, fouryear scholarship as opposed year to year that can be used against a weapon at a student or performance or add somebody else to the squad. Health and insurance benefits. The concern when youre injured or you suffered disability as a result of that, or you lose your athletic ability or scholarship, these things start to accumulate on some students. The stipend issue that you raised, and transfer issue, these are the issues that these students felt necessary to form a union around because they werent getting satisfaction. I suspect you would find that if you traveled to most College Campuses that had sports programs, that students feel theyre caught up in a cog and theyre only there for four years, five years, whatever period of time and theyre not being addressed. I find it interesting that other witnesses are have held their testimony to that notion and thats their belief this is a student athlete. These, your student athletes at northwestern said, what about the athletic side of it . What about where we spend 50 hours a week . What is this imposition on us and what security do we have . And apparently that can never quite get addressed and mr. Schwarz, that brings me to you. If you, if you read mr. Live spring tons testimony you livingstons testimony, why this intricate work between conferences and ncaa and colleges, maybe even the media, would not be a shield against issues raised by this bargaining unit. They could travel all over and even have them going into the academic side but that same network is used as a weapon against the athletes. Thats right. That same network is used as a weapon when they want to talk about, as is our stipend fair . Because they dont have any voice at all. Then, well, the school is happy giving you fouryear, that is not every school in the league, maybe not in the pac 12, i dont know. We have to check with the conference. The conference, well, were bound by the rules. Also remember today what conference you get in, conferences are like commodities. Theyre moving them around to generate tv revenues. No longer allegiance to the fan or old rivalries. It is about what revenues generated midweek, weekend playoffs. Want to explain a little bit, if youre a handful of students in the Northwestern Program how youre going to be heard and how you are going to get results during your career . Sure. If i could address a couple of things, one of the statements i heard here that baylor treats all of its student athletes the same. That is not true. There is a cap how many students can receive scholarships. And walkons are prohibited from receiving scholarships. So there already in some sense a caste system that is the term mr. Muir used describing paying athletes that distinguishes between scholarship athletes and other athletes would get a scholarship if the school were allowed to exercise individual choice. Instead there is cap that prevents it. Directly to your point, the way i like to think about the claim that schools are poor in their Athletic Departments is that it is similar to say like wall street banker who brings in Million Dollars of salary, but maybe been divorced twice so he has alimony payments, maybe kids are in college. Maybe has a couple mortgages. Once he is done paying for all those things there is not a lot of money left, wall street banking doesnt pay that well. That is sort of a point the Knight Commission found in 2010. There is not enough money to provide those scholarships. There is not enough money to help the other points but as they pointed out escalating coaches salaries are creating unsustainable growth of athletic expenses. So can bury 7 million into a coachs salary, 3 million to the coachs salary, i understand that is exception but more and more are joining that fraternity but then you plead poor mouth you cant quite take care of your athletic obligations campuswide. I think we see here that the ncaa has conduct ad very, very interesting and overwhelming network to be used against these kinds of questions being raised, Even Commission as prominent as the Knight Commission that examinedded this impact and the relationship, if you will of student athletes. Thats why these students chose to become employees because they recognize the situation as they were in. Classical employer, employee relationship. Thank you. Gentlemans time has expired. I ask unanimous consent to submit a letter from the American Council on education which warns treating student athletes as employees, quote, would have a range of negative and troubling consequences. Submit for the record an article from the stanford daily. Student athletes have access to easy courses. Without objection. Both will be entered into the record. Dr. Fox. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And i want to thank all of her witnesses here today. Youve provided some fascinating information to us and im grateful to you, someone who spent a lot of time in education and higher education, dealt with student athletes and students who werent athletes. So i appreciate the information. Judge starr, i understand baylors priority is education. In fact all of you have talked about that. Would you describe how baylors Athletic Programs work with the academic programs to insure student athletes can prioritize their studies while also meeting their commitments to the team . One of the keys, dr. Foxx, is the planning process that goes into developing the major planning and schedule and student athletes do have priority in terms of registration. So we do not have a crowding out kind of question at all. So throughout the Academic Year there is a careful monitoring of that students progress and if there are issues being identified, then those issues are going to be addressed. I think thats why weve seen a steady increase in recent years, even before my watch, but it is point of personal emphasis on my watch, that we want the student athletes to have that entire reservoir of support, and thats why the gpa, cumulative gpa averages 3. 27. Very labor intensive and very student athlete specific focused activity. Im assuming you have study halls . As elsewhere, mandatory for first years for freshmen. And then there are abundant study facilities available. Theyre very conveniently located as part of our simpson high yes, sir academic center. Let me come back to the opinion. He includes restrictions placed on athletes. He says they have to obtain permission from the coaches before applying for outside employment, posting items on the internet and speaking to media. Theyre also prohibited from using alcohol and drugs and engaging in gambling. Judge, this may sound like a silly question but please tell me why you placed these restrictions on student athletes . Well, it is in fact to create a team culture and also to insure, as best we can, appropriate behavior. Dr. Foxx, when the student athlete ariffs he or she is presented with the Student Athletic handbook an the earliest pages say, here is the kind of behavior that is forbidden because it reflects poorly on the university, it reflects poorly on the team and frankly destructive of the culture of the team. So yes, there are a number of prohibitions but theyre all grounded in human experience. These are things that student athlete should not be doing. Some of these things are things no student should be doing, correct. That is correct. One of the things when you go through the thou shall not list, it is in very fact comparable to any other student. Theyre obviously some athleticspecific activity but it is in fact a community of rules that were in a Community Together and these are the rules that bind us all. Right. I would like to ask you this question. Then if mr. Muir has an opportunity to respond to it also, i would appreciate it. We know that the decision made by the nlrb gentleman has implications beyond the nlra. It has implications for title ix of the education amendments of 1972, Workers Compensation laws, tax law, fair labor standards act. Could all be implicated. Would you tell us your thoughts on the possible implication of these laws for baylor and then mr. Muir, for stanford . I think theyre very serious issues with respect to title ix in particular. If the football scholarship student athletes are all employees, then in fact that is going to create a very serious issues in terms of imbalance with respect to what title ix requires. There are going to be a host of other issues as well. Injuries are important. Health is very important. Were very sensitive to that and therefore the question will be triggered, does osha have jurisdiction in this context as well . So i think it is going to raise a hornets necessary of issues. I believe if we go down that path, first and foremost, our students are students first and we want to insure many of the issues that northwestern student athletes raise are issues were already covering at stanford. Think if we go down the path eventually we call our students, student athletes employees and they become a true working employer working relationship then i do think some of those things as title ix and making sure we provide a broad offering for all of our students becomes at risk. The pressures become greater. Gentleladys time has expired. Mr. Bishop. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman and to our panel thank you for your testimony. Mr. Aislers, particularly i want to particular your testimony that you highlighted issues i want to talk about. You described effort at northwestern as a means to an end. I think it is also fair to describe it as a cry for help. I think that we talk about having student athletes interest at the center of what we do. I used to run a college so, Division Ii School but there is nobody really talking for the students and i think what is happening at northwestern this is an effort to get somebody to listen. So i want to address this to judge starr and to mr. Muir. You both represent highlyregarded, very prestige just institutions that have pest teen just institutions that succeeded on Athletic Field and the classroom. You both are members of very large conferences and i want to just go over what the players at northwestern are asking for. Theyre asking for efforts to minimize College Athletes brain trauma risks. Theyre asking to prevent players from being stuck paying sportsrelated medical expenses. Theyre asking that Graduation Rates increase. Theyre asking that Educational Opportunities for student athletes in Good Standing be protected. Theyre asking that universities be prohibited from using a permanent injury suffered during athletics as reason to reduce or eliminate a scholarship. Theyre asking to establish and enforce uniform safety guidelines . All sports to help prevent serious injuries and avoidable deaths. Theyre asking to prohibit the punishment of College Athletes that have not committed a crime. Is there anyone on that list that just mentioned that is unreasonable . Is there any piece of that, that your institution would say, no, im awful sorry, we cant do that . Or let me phrase it postively. Would you each be willing to lead an effort in your respective conferences to see to it that your fellow member institutions say, absolutely, guys, youre absolutely right, were going to do it, its the right thing to do . Mr. Bishop, i think that that series of questions, they are in fact important. They are legitimate and we are in fact continually working toward addressing them. Take the concussion policy. The ncaa does have a concussion policy and requires members to, of our conference requires it and we have a concussion policy. We continually monitor that. There are studies underway from the university of virginia and the ncaa and has personally, has directly funded a study that so this is involving science. So, yes, we want heres my question. Yes. Im sorry, i dont mean to be rude. I have only five minutes. Should we not, if, unionization is as bad as so many of you think it is, should we not use this as a catalyst, not just talk about conversations and not just talk about yes, were looking at it, lets do it . You are very powerful institutions, in very powerful conferences that people look to for leadership. Can you not just say, were going to lead an effort to make this happen . Again, briefly, i believe it is happening. Can we move for quickly . Of course, you could always move more quickly you about it is fact a serious conversation. These myriad issues you rightly raised are under serious review and its not just a conversation. Things are happening. Ncaa, cost of attendance i want to give mr. Muir a chance, my question in these conversations who is speaking for the student athlete . I would say there is a multiple of individuals are speaking for the student athletes including student athletes themselves. We hear a number of our constituencies, both on and off campus saying we need the student athletes voice. Certainly were being attentive to that. Our president s are at the table. Theyre constantly thinking about this. Theyre trying to take leadership roles as you mentioned. Athletic directors, i was at an Athletic Directors meeting yesterday. This is common discussion point. We want to make sure the student athletes experience is best as it possibly can be and we need to enhance it. I hope somehow collectively to the point where we hold student athletes, hold coaches to the same standards we hold student athletes. A coach can break a contract with impunity. When you left Yale University you had to sit out a year. I dont understand why it thats a coach can break a contract with impunity and student athlete is penalized if he wants to move from one institution to another institution that he thinks better serves his needs. Mr. Aislers, you want ehlers want to comment on that . Congressman bishop, i do think, i dont understand why we cant get there, people should go to college to get degrees first and foremost, full stop. Part of their educational experience for me was at least participating in a sportsrelated program, just like someone would do drama, speech, debate, what have you. It made me who i am today. It made me a better father, a better husband, a better person, a Better Business person. So it is, i would disagree with mr. Schwarzs characterization that separate and distinct from your educational experience. I think it is integral like any of those things and what we need to do is make sure student athletes have the ability to go to an institution for four years and earn a degree and leave with a degree. So if that is the case, i would respectfully disagree that there should be some quid pro quo. That person should make a commitment to that coach to give them four years of Service Coming out of high school. If we dont do that, though, i then i would submit to you, what youre suggesting, that we should allow people to then flow around, they should be equal. I want a twoway street to be, to be equal for both parties. Gentlemans time has expired. Dr. Roe. Thanks very much, mr. Chairman. Just to clarify a couple things mr. Schwarz started with. Full disclosure, the head basketball coach and Athletic Director where i went to college, dave luce, did both jobs for a long time this is a mid division i school. Im absolutely committed to college act ticks. I donated money to build Athletic Center at the college. Mr. Schwarz, you pointed out how much money, i agree ncaa does, and most dont live at lofty level. Most colleges lose money at athletics. They dont make money. Big areas do, big schools do. At austin peay nine Million Dollar budget, not 90 million budget this unionization at a private university, not a State University but student athletes, mr. Eiler such, i totally agree with you. Mr. Bishop, you can transfer without loss of a time, if you transfer at different level. If you go from division i to division ii up you can play immediately, to clarify that for everyone. Either mr. Livingston or maybe, judge starr, this ruling, what means me is at least i played sports it was fun. We sound like it is some kind after drudgery. Golf is sometimes but are to the most part sports are fun. Thats why you play sports. And as mr. Eilers clearly said, he added his experience at a student athlete, it made him better, he mentioned it very eloquently, thats what it did for me. I learned a lot on the Playing Field i would have never learned in the classroom. So i think it is additive. Do you think this ruling could potentially cause schools just to drop football or sports . Well, we have to consider all options in terms of the best interests. I know the president of university of delaware said, he was a student athlete himself that the university of delaware would not be able to continue. That is public university. It is raising a host of serious questions. I think it could in fact at a minimum cause programmatic curtailments. It raises issues we talked about under title ix. How do you achieve very important balance to achieve as a matter of policy and as a matter of law. It is simply the wrong way to go to address these very important issues. The number of questions that are raised are so myriad, they are just remarkably wideranging. I dont think there is a real answer for most of these questions. The fair labor standards act is yet another. Antitrust laws themselves. That were emphasized earlier. So it is bringing us into a sea of complete uncertainty. I agree. Of. Go ahead. Anyone else . If i might add, the issue that mr. Schwarz talked about in terms of the protection for entire leagues where they all belong under one collective Bargaining Agreement is absolutely cor