One thing i want to say is there has been an inclusive form of government which is the sunnis in the north and that is one part of the problem that lets park that for a moment. Lets turn to the iraqi army. Trained by the americans fully equipped brought up to their Numerical Strength very strong and gets fled at the first sign of trouble. Are we being naive in believing that you can meld different tribes, different cultures given the 600 year culture of the region region into one force and expect them to take home an opposition for which a large part of their own army is recruiting . First i dont agree with your introduction and description. Do you think the army did while . No im saying they are not as strong as you are suggesting that they were. This was back in june before they drop their guns and ran. Im saying when they did drop the guns they were full strength, wellequipped and trained by the americans and equipped over period of years and yet when the first sign of trouble they ran. That is to gloss over the leadership that was looking after the scale of the iraqi forces by maliki himself. He was actually running the show perhaps because he was concerned about their own power, their own authority. Therefore the good sunni leaders and others who operated under a structure which you and i are very familiar with and have both served, that was removed. Not only was it removed but also the support element was removed from maliki requesting that end. Therefore the fact that these generals were directed to malikis office and when it ca came, when the attack actually came in when the orders went out there to coordinate activity and that is why many of the generals werent sure what to do to provide mutual support. Not only that they were serving in the sunni area themselves and perhaps a complex environment led to the forces themselves crumbling much faster and perhaps we would have anticipated. We bring this down to an issue of leadership more than trying to meld a united force out at different ethnic religions and cultures. What general allen is seeking to do is to create a National Guard which actually does work on exactly what you are implying. There is a myriad, complex tapestry of ethnic groupings and each area available to develop its own National Guard but that is what the americans are now focusing on and that is i think what is best suited for that particular country. See that okay and finally it appears that the u. K. Is offering little or no assistance to the isf. Is there any plans for that to change . I would agree with that at all. Where involvement abstracts which is assisting the Ground Forces in iraq. As you will be aware there are tornado sorties and combat missions have taken place. We are also providing intelligence gains that is needed. And its also part of the coalition. You may want to see the british flag that we are doing what has been asked of all of us in that there is more to be ousted the Iraqi Government wants us to do more we will certainly consider it. We are part of a 60 Strong Coalition and i think we are doing as much as we can do but we will certainly consider any request to do more. Thank you. Welcome. Minister can i just raised to the committees attention my registered member centrist. I have a Family Business in iraq and kurdistan as well as i cochair the party group 4k rgb. Thank you very much. Minister, one of the first countries to offer help to both the Kurdistan Regional government and to the baghdad government was iran through the revolutionary guards. In the battle against isi think this was the frontline we were told across from kirkuk all the way to mock more. Do you welcome the engagement with the revolutionary guard in the battle in iraq and irans gifting of military equipment to the kurds . We are told they delivered heavy artillery and ammunition from ammunition warehouses in baghdad. Im going to invite edwards to say a couple of words on a longterm relationship because he is very familiar having served in the region. I would simply say sometimes we do look at iran to the british spectrum of advanced. We perhaps forget that there is a strong historical and geographical relationship between the kurds and iran. I think the thirdlargest ethnic grouping in iran are the kurdish themselves and therefore there will naturally be a synergy and an interest. We are aware that the revolutionary guards deployed in the diyala province and we have always kept an eye on what was happening there. This was at a huge time with change taking place with isil pushing them as i mentioned earlier. It obviously is a decision for the Iraqi Government but i believe its best for iraqi whether they be southern iraqi or Peshmerga Forces to liberate the country and provide that security. I think the only thing i would add is the Iraqi Government have made it very clear that they dont want Foreign Forces of any kind on this soil. I think its better and we agree with them for iraqi troops to liberate their country from is isil. We all saw the curious way in which the Southern Army came from noble fame. To stop the flow and the advance of isil isil and perhaps i think we are pretty clear here that while britain and iran might if you like share a common interest, i, and challenged in confronting isil and iraq too, the bad, and challenge stops there and becomes a sort of iraq that iran would want to see is very different from the sort of inclusive iraq that his government would want to see that the krg would want to see and we would want to see. If you look at the track record from syria which is sort of a militia forming. In fact what suleimani was doing was going around the shia militia in organizing the shia militia in baghdad to fight isil and the way in which the militia behaved is being pretty patchy to put it mildly. Thank you very much for that. I think we will get back to talking about the peshmerga later. Minister are you satisfied the current allied military strategy against the Islamic State in iraq is working or are you resigned to a longerterm with all that entails in idps not being able to hold the spectrum who have held late prospect of them returning to their homes . Let me take it from a literary context. Please be patient. We need to see this as a longterm operation if not from the state of warfighting but the stabilization and peacekeeping perspective. We are in the early stages of that. This will take a lot of time. Thats not to say there may be other ways that can be done but the strategy at the moment which i think a story 11 is to allow the iraqi Ground Forces to liberate in Anbar Province to push isil back from where they came from. I think we need to recognize the ad campaign we are operating as providing a vast umbrella of support. The americans are providing in the british as well not just with i start the counterieds and a myriad of other support coming from the region. We are seeing successes but it is indeed going to take time. The idp is an interesting aspect. I spoke about this with the American Ambassador and general allen and i pose the question who you have in mind to be the mayor of mosul and fallujah . When the cities and towns are liberated who is going to be the head teacher. Its something we are not thinking about immediately. Nobody thought about them or seem that way in 2003. That is why we ended up as liberators to occupiers because it didnt really change what i mentioned earlier at the fact that we felt disenfranchised and you also have yazidis and others who are worried about retaliation when people come back once isil forces are pushed back. They were scared no doubt about it. We need to make sure there is bad that assurance that there is an infrastructure capability. One thought that was being considered is actually as soon as the town is liberated and moving that refugee camp straightaway to the oscars so not actually forcing them back into their original homes because they may not trust their neighbor. He ransacked her home or push them out because the wind of change suggests the sunnis were on a roll and they felt obliged to support with isil was doing. Basically its outside of town so they start to go back to work or indeed move back an ontime tribute band of saying theyre at least its a new community which is very close to where they were before. Thank you. We clearly have very deep knowledge of the situation on the ground. Would you say rather than a debaathification in 03 and 0404 we need a truth and reconciliation process to take place . The truth of the reconciliation process was appropriate and designed, mean there has been a number of models not only in south africa but rwanda and so forth. Very clearly there will need to be some method in which communities can come back together and deal with the horrific hostilities that have taken place with individuals choosing to take up arms simply because they got caught up in a horrific war. Thank you very much. I think most would agree minister that our campaign alone is unlikely to defeat isil. What we need are troops on the ground and politics. Can i suggest to you that with very little progress on the politics side with very little progress getting the iraqi army up to speed this is going to be a long campaign. Therein lies the danger because the air campaign on its son could become counterproductive. There is concern that the longer the ad Campaign Goes on the more perhaps the sunnis are going to feel persecuted and perhaps get civilian casualties could rise. Therein lies the prospect of it being counterproductive. What is your view of that and is there are plan b if the politics and the army dont click in fast enough . You are very patient to see as i think everybody is, to see iraq liberated. But i dont agree with your premise that somehow there is simply an air campaign. Theres an air campaign which we are involved with but we are just one small part of the larger jigsaw and as i say i went to pains to say that the iraqi army is being retrained. Americans are very much involved with that. We are doing our part as well. If we need to do more we obviously will consider that but its important we dont make the same mistakes we have done in the past compounding by putting Ground Forces, troops on the ground who then could end up making the situation worse. We have to get this space and we are seeing evidence of iraqi armed force successes but it will take time. Yes its absolutely right we could move nato forces in their thank you for one have a record of being absolutely reticent about it. So are you advocating because i would say there is no appetite in this country and if i may finish sir there is an appetite to support the strategy which is to give the space to the iraqi forces to develop the skill sets or rather reclaim the skill se sets. One thing they have spent a lot of time doing is fighting but to coordinate that so they can regain their ground for which they can then continue. To clarify i wasnt suggesting nato forces in talking about the iraqi army. You still havent answered the question with respect to argue a live to the danger of airstrikes alone over time becoming counterproductive when it comes to sunni minoritys . I dont agree with your premise. There is arterial capability and infantry arterial capability in infantry and so forth. Therefore maybe i misunderstand the question that you are looking at it through the lens of international perhaps kinetic contribution here and that is i think a false premise. Until we get the iraqi army pushing forward because we know theres no substitute to boots on the ground. Until you get to that point essentially we are all lined on airstrikes and maybe artillery as well but essentially airstrikes. As the Foreign Office a life in politics on the ground alive to the danger that this could become counterproductive at the time . Theres a real danger that airstrikes without iraqi army pushing back could become counterproductive . I cant go further than saying their successes happening. We are seeing the iraqi army hold their ground. They are not able to push back as fast as we would like or they will eventually be able to do but they have thwarted the attack by isil. It will now take time for them to go from a defensive mode into offense at the met will simply take time. We have to allow the patient for that to happen. There is an angst that we have been using drones out there without giving way without giving away any operational capacity is that a large part of your operation or small part or in microscopic part . Is one element. Its one element but from memory im sorry, its smaller than the number of flights that have happened subsequent smaller than the number of terminator flights and there have been 2200 of flights in the number of drone strikes is in the single figures. Could i say they appreciate the way which asked the question. It may make sense not to probe. Otherwise we are giving too much information away. Thank you. I am chair of the royal party group on iraq. I also have a Long Association with the kurds. So i would like to ask you, after the iso eventually is driven out to the kurdish arab border areas by the peshmerga do you see the need for some sort of International Peacekeeping mission to keep order and to defend, and reprisals which you touched on here . I go back to the point. Firstly can i pay tribute to the work you have done. I know youve been very focused on this and supportive of all the borders and not just the kurds. The fiscal protection that needs to come you are quite right in saying there needs to be a sense of security. The National Guard program has been put in place which allows from a tribal perspective a connection, a local connection between those who know the security capability and those who live there so you do not bus in those from another part of the country to another part in order to provide that. That is where i think we went wrong before. So i wouldnt at this stage consider introducing International Peacekeepers are in any form of that. Its not something thats being discussed at the moment. Im glad you put the record straight about the iraqi army. I think it has been criticized unnecessarily and it didnt just run away. They were factors where there was no clear command and i think its important to put that on the record. Going back to minority groups displaced from their homes, traditional homes, the syrians, and the man danes and so on. Many of those i think may not want to return to their homes because of fear of reprisals. That may not be realistic and we will need some kind of assurances and protections. Some years ago prince of the yazidis and enclave just for the yazidis so that feeling has been there for some time to fear him protected now so more of course. You pose such an important question and its worth perhaps just reflecting on what part of the world we are dealing with. Mesopotamia the land between two rivers is called. This is the birthplace of so many religions that have actually lived in relative peace for thousands of years whether it be christians or a whole variety of religions that stem from this corner of the world. They have lived together in peace. They can do it again but we shouldnt overestimate how horrible they world now feel visiting the number of refugee camps this is exactly what they were concerned about him that is why the Iraqi Government must be inclusive and ensuring that they are represented politically but also protected physically using the correct makeup of National Guard. Do you think people like the yazidis mania comb were rescued have they got all the assistance that they need at the moment and is there any attempt at all and ive asked this could question several times in the house and what is happening to the ucd women . We were all shocked when so many of them are kidnapped. There were reports they were being sold on the open markets. It appeared that it was the peshmerga themselves and particularly peshmerga in syria that help the yazidis more than anybody else. Indeed it was the peshmerga and impact a particular wing of the peshmerga that was able to come in on mt. Sinjar and provide support in their time of need. Many of now moved away and found refuge mostly in Northern Iraq. You are absolutely right there is a huge concern about the plight of the women. This is one of the reasons and in fact i have traveled was just into Northern Iraq we visited a number of refugee camps and she made a further commitment of additional funds. Britain is one of the largest donors and if you have any figures we can provide in Northern Iraq to assist in this very area. But is there any information . I keep asking that question over and over again. What information do we as a British Government have about those ucd women . They seem to have sort of disappeared. We will check on that you now but i dont think we have got very much. As the minister said the peshmerga themselves not just the ones who got them off mt. Sinjar but then the evidences as one would expect they were the most affected people in tracing the 3000 or so does seem to have disappeared. We are not getting for what its worth an urgent request for further assistance for the yazidis at the moment. Without at all wanting to underplay what the yazidis have gone through. The pushback we are also getting from kurdish and iraqi groups is dont just concentrate on the ucd women. There are lots of other women who have been taken hostage and worse by isil too and so its a question of trying to trace the mall rather than just concentrating on one. The u. K. Humanitarian aid to the krg as a whole 23 million of which some was dedicated in 4 million from memory was dedicated to specifically protection of women. Could i say we have not adequately answered your question. We will get back with this investigation. Im going to iraq very soon and i will make sure i put this on the agenda and we investigate that further and get back to you. Thank you. I do understand is the kurdish womens minister of affairs during our visit told us in some cases they were trying to buy, they had bought some of the women. To liberate them . Yes to liberat