Has a major anymore empathetic to the people you work with . That could be a very long answer. I used to think that people cared about me and maybe celebrated the results that i was able to generate because they cared about what i was doing, but i did know the people love me for who i am. And after the news, after i sent my letter to 7500 people 1000 of them wrote to the emails of encouragement and what are you doing next. I have nothing to offer you anymore. I realized for the first time in my life at the age of 31 that i was lovable as a human and as a person, not just as a leader who is generating results. And that love has been transformative and healing in my life. I hate talk about the mistakes i have made but at the same time its liberating to not hide undertake many leaders almost all leaders have done something at some point in their career that it became to light would make them lose their leadership. And most people dont get the liberty, freedom of actually getting to speak about it. And ive realized ive realized the hard way talking about this that we as humans, we bond in our humanity, usually a lot more we bond in our successes, and our accomplishments. And so not many people talk about their failures, and we all have some do you want to talk about that . [laughter] take the heat off. My job is to put the heat on i guess. In terms of working with the men and the women that we serve at define now, ive always had a passion for it but now communicable i can relate that much more to being covered in a thick wall of shame. I had no money. I did want to be seen on the street here in the now understand that much more what its like for them to work through that statement in to work through the shame and the healy. So im really passionate about it and as a leader, when i started pep when i was 27 i was ignorant and ignorance really was bliss. Ive no idea how hard it was. So when i restarted the fly four years ago defy a whole lot of things about leadership and i was so much more hesitant about leaving again. I was more cautious, i was definitely insecure about announcing that i was going to go for this again. But ive come at it with a more tempered energy, and i would say and even deeper love for the mission that i have. I couldve chosen, i got an opportunity back into Venture Capital after this because i was too tired to lead and i thought no one would believe in me again, but people do give me a Second Chance to lead to know im extremely passionate about extending Second Chances to americas biggest underdogs. We are here in Silicon Valley and this is a committee i think that does believe that failed is okay. Sort of, you know the whole mindset here is you can fail and you can pick up and go one. So how did you restart this quick you are no longer allowed to work in the texas prison system but you were in new york at this point, right, and decide im going to restart this. Even some supporters. I got a year of intensive therapy and selfhelp and everything. I moved out of texas back to new york city where i have been working before just to get some energy back in my life because i was so depressed and i was studying at practices and other models across the country not sure that i wanted to start something again, wrote a bunch of Business Plans. People tore them up i wanted that because i did want to start something that would be ineffective. And so after a year doing this i announced the defy concept and it was with the it was with the support of a small number of really amazing people who have my back but they told me, my mentor said if youre going to do this again you build something that pep still statewide in text today, go big or go home. Be something that we National National scalable. Make sure your building infrastructure, something that can bring healing nationally. I spent the first year on the heels of a concert nation raising money which is not an easy resignation. I know i screwed up but please give me money. Getting methodology and curriculum and staff in place that could likely this into success. So you did that and now how big is the program now . You are using technology to the remote kinds of things. How is the whole infrastructure setup . I made the decision to work outside the prison system because there are about 2 Million People are currently incarcerated in prisons but there are 100 million on the outside who have criminal histories and i know that Silicon Valley is work something out risk, but many people in Silicon Valley still will not hire someone who is a fully. Theres a huge need on the outside. So we in the city started off because new yorkers said just because you can do in it in texas doesnt mean you can do in new york. For two years we ran a traditional brickandmortar stock classroom model where we call them eit, entrepreneurs and drink them would come to classroom and ever learn about entrepreneurship intensive Character Development including everything from how to be a great father or parent and manners and then employment skills. We would run his these Business Plan competitions and recruit mentors to come. Our model has worked out by those. A recidivism rate is arent exactly but it is through Unemployment Rate is 95 and weve incubated and started 71 companies in just two years nearly all of them become profitable within a threemonth period. So everything worked really well. They are very Simple Service business models, and so a year ago one of my mentors kicked my butt and said its great you are doing this in texas sorry come in new york but we reserve 115 people so he said, do something scalable. And so i didnt know how but we decided to transfer lot of our curriculum into an Online Training format your susceptibility and all you saw in the video is one seth godin. We have five professors from Harvard Business school the teacher online courses so we filmed them and then our eit scum we serve 174 in this calendar year. Are helping to service 1000 next year. They learn an Online Training and then they come together at events like with last night like a Business Coaching night to apply the information that theyre learning as they prepare to launch their businesses. I went with the Online Training it sounds like part of what works in what youre doing is bringing people together in a physical space to get that in person training. We do this every month in Silicon Valley. You are welcome to come. We have a mentoring program that is one on one and share groups. Out of that people are transformed just watching something online. Is through the application and persons through relationships that we heal. To me i have to say the idea that people have been in prison who have been in gangs and done drugs and real entrepreneurs make enormous sense to me. Its one of the things that dawned on me but of course i didnt do anything about it and she did and thats, and yet i wonder, how do you decide which people are going to work in the program . Because it probably isnt something for everyone. The number one thing we look for is to take ownership of the past into the want to transform their future . If you want to hand out there are not well suited for defy and i used to be a hard task of triage people who just wanted to the handout but this year along with switching to a blended learning model to online stuff, we also switched to a tuitionbased model where we now charge a very modest tuition to our eits, entrepreneurs and training to the rest of it is subsidized by doors but weve seen when the of skin in the game the ones who really want to move forward in their lives theyre willing to pay and the guys who are not serious about the transmission, the outcome. Thats pretty fabulous weeding mechanism. How much do you charge . It depends, its a 100 a month but we give them, they dont take on any debt and every month we give them an opportunity like a sales expo or anything way to earning and paying for their tuition. Been there also earning financial prizes through defy. It can end up costing them nothing in the end which is what to see that the want to put money for it. So tell us about the physicist that have been started started. They are real Simple Companies but the worker gets everything from like a tailoring company. We the guy who introduced himself the first time as a Third Generation fallon, and yeah, because 70 of people end up follow in their parents footsteps. Its a generational thing. He was tired of that and he loved food to start a tailoring business. And now exclusively hires young dads and he is hard like more than 10 of them. He got to leave his job does not suspect him to run this company fulltime. It ranges from that we have a couple apps even though we dont think like thats the best model for profitability so we generally discourage it but we have Carpet Cleaning businesses. I mean we have a whole broad range, dog walking and that care companies. We have companies in almost every, 71 of them. Which is amazing. In order you said theres money behind the program. Are the able to get seed money . Yes. Along the way . Yes. When theyre competing for the 100,000 in startup capital those are actually grants that we distribute. Its not like one person wins 100,000. We have three competitions. Our next was coming up. Google is hosting it at their headquarters first and tim draper is holding the final at his office. They compete therefore small amount of seed capital and every competition that we have, the Capital Increase and we would also provide them with microloans. We are partners comments we give them access and the more money that their businesses need to introduce them to Angel Investors because our network is full of them. You have tim draper. How did you get them interested . An email saying will you come and be a judge . Really . Any such your . Yes. It can almost that simple. We do good sending cold emails. And 21st showed up had he ever had any experience working with people who have been imprisoned and . Tim draper . I dont think so but he is a classic story of investor who loves a great underdog proposition and can see Great Potential that is not recognized by others. Thats what he is so good at his job. I am curious. I mean, we saw earlier in the little video, these moments of asking people these questions that you would ask them, like hellman of you heard gunshots . Que . Que x what is it like when you have people who are successful Business People and people were felons and you ask these questions of them . Is there any point where they start to find things in common, or are there surprising moments where they have things in common . Its actually, so we create a safe place where people can be vulnerable and the premise, a lot of the premise under defy is there so much in common on both sides of that line. And so many of our executives and many of our eits are driven to their successes does have daddy issues. He never had their fathers blessing. They never heard like i love you, son and so they go out and defied the odds. One did it illegally and wanted it legally but theyre both on both sides of the library extremely charismatic, passionate influencers and to use their influence to get results. Their bottom line oriented. And so when they get together the doctor like a really strong mutual respect. When we tell our executives no pity, no sugar coating look them straight in the eye and if their Business Ideas stink, you tell them and then they can pivot. So they like that because they get this light, we do serve women to but theres this tough guy thing in the realm but then its like tough guys can also be soft and vulnerable because what we find is that our eit coming out of prison have had to put on this facade for so much of their lives and then they can come to divide, exactly they are known and loved even though they have done these things and they finally get to let their guard down to our executives who are sometimes gazillionaires are also keeping up this facade like keeping up with the joneses the other ceos in their world and they have issues by that defy gigot love and rewarded for being just who you are. And so that is a daunting glue that keeps people coming back and executives remain their friends. Its interesting. I dont know whether its a great thing that felons as excess of businessmen have something in common or not. [laughter] successful businessman. What does it take to be successful businessperson . Anyway, i do wonder about that. I was going to ask you about women. You started this before orange is the new black became popular but piper is last among some of the getting is actually a big advocate for prison reform. I remember hearing an interview with the woman who was in prison with Martha Stewart. And apparently Martha Stewart, this woman when she got out of prison became start your own business in part because Martha Stewart encouraged this among them. We are serving a woman right now who served time with Martha Stewart as well. Apparently so. I wondered how much, there are not as many women in prison as men but 5 roughly. I do wonder to what degree you do work with women because a lot of women in prison i mean they are single moms, they have challenging circumstances and in able to be a good businessperson could really help them. Right. And so that the women that we have were trying to attract more, that there are small percentage of the criminal population and the women that we do have our awesome fighters. They hold their own with the guys. Is it sort of different when youre dealing with the women in terms of or you become in terms of background stories, in terms of bonding with executives . Yes and no. I mean they are there as entrepreneurs in their own right and its not like they cry all the time and the guy still do something. They are very competitive. One of our women in new york consistently wins every challenge and contest that we have, or takes first or second or third. And so she has a softness to her that i think its are a competitive advantage. Her daughter is also part of her family. We have a Family Literacy Program and her daughter is in it, and her daughter is starting her own company through defy because we serve their kids. Her daughter is 21 and the starting her company now alongside her momcome and theyre on the legal entrepreneurial journey together and gets some beautiful things to see that happen. Thats amazing. It truly truly a wonderful thing. You know, i wonder, i have heard, people often criticize programs within prisons that help prisoners. Ive heard people say like you know, basically probably had your attitude when you started out, these are thugs, awful people. Do you get that at all . Do you get any criticism of people saying well, you know why shouldnt they get this advantage . They have committed this crime. Having worked inside the prison system for five years not everyone in prison wants to transform. But with that said, so many of them do and so yes i get a lot of criticism of all flavors. But when people say why did they get, why did these guys get all the special privilege, my first thing is we dont even get public funding so its not like were taking funding away from to do whatever. My other answer is if you look at the communities we serve which are some of the poorest communities in America Today defy is serving people in nine different states already to our blended model. In the committees we serve which is the underserved poor communities, the number one missing factor in my opinion from what ive seen is positive male role models. And so it is a father problem in america, and fatherhood if you want to move America Forward yes, you need to serve the kids but sony people already focus on education and kids programs. Ready to give all the consistence tickets and they come to dysfunctional families and to missing fathers they are not moving so much. To our social some people think its backwards but we are actually equipping predominately men to become not just on to put north but thats why 50 of what we do is working on their character as well so that they can become engaged parents who love their kids and to teach them a new legacy of legal entrepreneurship. Weve all these events with their kids and the kids come to the sales ex post into the competition and then the kids say im going to do, and entrepreneur just like my dad when i grow. This is a Family Business and thats what we live for. When you say you help them become better fathers besides helping them become successful entrepreneurs, fatherhood is about more than bring home the money. In what ways do you work with them around that . We have incredible curriculum and online courses that teach this stuff. So its everything from, we teach the five love languages to them so that they can be better spouses. Explained what the five the idea that we all have like one or two so words of affirmation, physical touch, acts of service, gifts and quality time. I just nailed all five. So basically if my love language is physical touch, which is, in my most likely way of loving you is also through physical touch but yours might be worth of affirmation and if i dont realize that, then were going to get into trouble. If i know yours is words of affirmation i can stroke you all day with words instead to love you in a language that is most important to you. So our eits are learning this as well. How to best love their own children and their spouses, not just that but even letting your employees and your company. Then we have a course on how to give a meaningful apology to make amends. The languages of apology which is not just saying im sorry but actual offering restitution and say im sorry and i was wrong are two different things. We have courses in etiquette come just now to be polite, how to be a gentleman or a gentlewoman. We have a two hour dining etiquette course that i couldnt leave after taking