Introduction to a book, but it really outlines what kemp did, why he did it, and what his career was like. And if you read another one called supplyside, it will help you. But there are so many others. Jack camp had this really kemp had this really interesting and exciting career. Guest i completely agree with fred. If you read if you read the introduction, i think you will continue reading the book because it does sort of set up and if i do say so myself, i think it is pretty well written. [laughter] host thank you both your time you were watching tv, nonfiction authors and books every weekend on cspan2, television for serious readers. Next from the wisconsin book festival held in madison last month, mary norris offers for solutions to some of the most common grammatical problems. We are delighted to be hosting mary norris today for her memoir tonight. She began her career as a foot mary checker at the Cleveland City pool. [laughter] dutifully checking patrons for athletes foot. A strange detail painting was part of the to be sure but i this age of super your origin stories it is a fact that it is essential and foreshadows a meticulous life spent in one of the most venerated and soviet style guides in the world. Many of the city and across the country, mar mary norris workyf copyediting the new yorker iss nothing short of super heroic. Reading between between you and me from Humble Beginnings like clark kent, cards and hanscom referenced in Article Topics fro come all the way to e present day where she stands atop a skyscraper pencil in hand ready to defend the new yorker from all manner, grammatical, colloquial and otherwise, please help me welcome mary norris. [applause] thank you for that amazing introduction. And thank you all for coming inside of this gnklorious day. We got lucky, didnt we . Its kind of dreary out soe area people people really reading when its raining out that itse true about the foot checking but i thought to give you an introduction i visit theu an introductory part of the book that is actually about my career in the dairy industry, since we are here in wisconsin, right . Ah i went to rutgers university, thats what i chose to go when s count on the cleveland to newevo brunswick, new jersey. Because it had a renowneddepart department in dairy science but while i was i could take one course in how taso the judge da cattle and i learned the differences between holstein, burns these, guernseys and brown swiss cows. Swi it has not come in handy at all. Ws but when i went back to went bak cleveland after college, i couldnt think of anything else to do, i called a local dairy and asked about whether the are in the openings for milkmen. I thought it would be i interesting to be in the dairy industry at anyinte level. I had a fancy for years about owning a dairy farm. Rs i like cows. We have never had a lady drive l milk truck but there is no reason not, the man said. So we will be come in and talk to him. The plant was stimulus steel, heated milk undercut with a whiff of ammonia. Monia. It was the first time i could be completely honest in a job interview. I didnt have any experience that i was sincerely interestedd in the dairy industry. Y industry you can tell from that i have perhaps told a lie or two abouth ae speed at which i typed trying to get the job before a them. Bef i guess i didnt have to liee about Fact Checking job potential because itd asked me if i knew what athletes foot looked like. I did not. So on a frigid morning in february i went along with a milkmen on ai route in Fairview Park which is a suburb on the oc west side of cleveland. The milk truck had two sets off petals, one with a standardh three for a stick shift for driving sitting down when youre goingin long distances, and the pireopfor driving stand up when youre hopping between houses. The ctch anset at just two battles. The clutch and brake were combined in one. When you need to slow down or shifted gears your left footsque squeezed down to the clutch toed the break on one pedal and judge lift your right foot off the foo accelerator and balance on one heel. Balance on one healed. The route was available and they gave me the job. Generous friend lent me her car for a crash course on how to drive a stick shift. The foreman who was training the notice i handled the track better standing up and sitting down. The seat was designed to fold up and swing around to the side where it could be stowed out of the way. All the folding and swinging at isnt it up so when i turned the Steering Wheel receipt swung in not opposite direction and i find myself facing out the side instead of the direction the truck was going as if i were on some disorienting amusement park. At the foremans suggested i was driving back to the plant standing up brook park road, the road in cleveland, and i went through an underpass on the far side of which was a traffic light and i was almost under it when i saw red so i had to slam on the break and try to steer while gripping the Steering Wheel and balancing on one heels. I lost control. The truck smashed into a concrete barrier to. The form and was thrown into the creek and i landed on the floor. He was okay. I was bruise and humiliated. The plant had its own tow truck and mechanic and i wrote back with the mechanic wanting to bum one of his unfiltered camels. The fact that the plant had its own should have led me to realize this at happened before. I thought it was a first. The form and got blamed because the boss that he shouldnt have had been driving standing up and i got another chance. I had some really nice customers. There was a couple who bought only a pint of have and have once a week for their coffee and i had an deadbeats, the kind of people who knew if they ever paid their bill in full year dropped from. There was a man who rehabilitated claim changers, those contraptions with barrels, we wore them on our belts. The milk shoots, boxes beside the door where you put the milk between the storm door and the inside, milkman. I wasnt the man but i did like the word lady. It seemed not feminine so i wouldnt shout milk lady. Milkmaid was a little too fanciful. I settled for milk woman which was a bit too anatomically correct and made me sound like a wet nurse. I muscled the last syllable. Milk woman. I have half a mind to stay in cleveland and try to marry the bosss son. He raised the cattle but i gave up the military to accept the the ship at the university of vermont while pursuing a masters degree in english, kept up my interest in the dairy industry. There was an Agricultural School not unlike the university of wisconsin. I learned to milk cows and so there were university cows. Pmi first job once the academic life had warned me down, packaging mozzarella on a night shift in a cheese factory. The team of women wearing white rubber aprons, yellow rubber gloves and hair nets full of mozzarella out of cold salt water, label them, back at them, box the cheese, i had a secret in the trunk. The popeye style muscles i developed my forearms atrophied soon after i moved to new york. Sometimes on the sides of trucks making deliveries isil recognized the logo of wholesalers. In the red, white and green on the trucks that deliver cheese, pizzerias. I dont suppose i will never be long to the brotherhood of teamsters again. I still have a chauffeurs license. Or have callouses on my palms, from handling a gallon of cartons. So i moved to new york and got a job at the new yorker in that Editorial Library. My first day there, there was a big snowstorm and most everybody went home but i stayed with my boss in the library so quitting time, when we were leaving that night, an editor, on the elevator with us. I noticed his. Mud green rubber boots said those are the kind of boots we war in the cheese factory. He looked at helen and said it so this is the next stop after the cheese factory. I kind of soft pedal to the dairy industry in my editorial after that those still came up i thought that for today i would i know you are dying to learn about commas, i, i would give your moneys worth and then i remember you got in for free. I thought i would try to cover the the three most important things about english grammar in usage, some of them have to do with commas, some of some dont but this seems to me more crucial today. Just to introduce what i do as a copy editor, this is from a chapter in the book called that which, and the issue is the use of the words that and which. Whenever i am asked on the radio or in public i fumble. Is almost impossible. So far i found it impossible to give a straight answer. But i will try this, see if it comes out. I always forget in the popular imagination the copy editor is a bit of a witch and it surprises the when someone is afraid of me. Not long ago young Editorial Assistant getting her first tour of the new york offices paused at my door to be introduced and when she heard i was a copy editor she jumped back. As if i might poke her with the red hot relax, i wanted to say. I dont make a habit of lecturing people in conversation or printed message is a publication. Change the course of the missile. Have our way with a piece of rose. The image of a copy editor is someone who favors amine person who enjoys pointing out other peoples errors. A lowly person just starting out in her career and eager to make an impression or at worst, a bitter thwarted person who wanted to be a writer. And instead got stuck dotting the is and crossing the teens ended venting the careers of others. I suppose i have been all of these and there is a big fancy word for going beyond your promise. In websters second unabridged. A lot of times copy editing is about not going beyond your problems. And ill protect the nation areas some. Writers might think we are applying rules and sticking to their prose or some standard but just as often with backing off, making the sections or at least trying to find a balance between doing too much and doing too little. A lot of the decisions you have to make as a copy editor are subjective. An issue that comes up all the time, whether to use that quote which depends on what the writer means. It is interactive, not mechanical. The example i give in the book is the dylan thomas klein force but through the green hues, the force, that, you can take out the phrase beginning the what is that called . The relative clause. If you can take it out and the sentence can do without it, then it is nonrestrictive, something extra. If the sentence makes no sense without applause, in this case the force driving flower, that is not poetry. That means that clause is restricted, define the meaning. Which course . The force of the green cute to drive the floor so that is restrictive. Nonrestrictive is anything else. Americans have agreed to use that when the clause is restrictive and to use which when the clause is nonrestrictive. It works pretty well. But not always. And either restrictive one nonrestrictive is in the lords prayer, our father who art in heaven, matthew, verse 6, line 9. Is a restrictive or nonrestrictive . Just where is god . I think it is nonrestrictive as indicated by the comma before who, it doesnt define the father, just tells where he lives. It is as if you could in search by the way, our father, who by the way lives in heaven, except that our father, the grammatical term direct address. In direct address there would be no need to tell got where he is. In the original context, in prayer to his disciples. If there are no commas the implication is whoever is praying has another topic. Joseph . Conceivably christ intended the phrase as restrictive to identify and the heavenly father, putting theology aside, i might say speaking for my siblings and me, our father who art in cleveland, we all understand our this talking about our one and only dad in cleveland. New testament did without the commas and a sense has been up for grabs ever since. The latin which comes from st. Jerome, nonrestrictive, you can hear the commas. The english translation from the book of common prayer make our father, comma, which art in heaven. Nonrestrictive. Even if you did later changed it to who. Got is the creator. Father in a figurative sense and monotheistic position theres only one, but a modern english conversion makes it simply our father in heaven which is restrictive. Our heavenly father. One modern English Version both catholic and a glutton does without the comma, our father who art in heaven. Little we did you have to admit. The restrictive one without the comma is more direct. Almost goes out of its way to snub the earthly father. The nonrestrictive with the comma is acknowledging he is the father of us all. I am not religious. So far that has not gotten me in any trouble. The other huge issue in English Usage today is gender. English lacks a gender neutral word for pronouns meaning both he and she, has become very sensitive since we have become more sensitive to trends gender in our lives so i am going to be a little from my chapter on a gender. Perhaps the most intractable problem hovers around conventional use of masculine pronouns to include the feminine when the antecedent is mixed for sheet or unknown or irrelevant. Collapsed gender in the english language, the third person singular personal pronoun, he, she, him, her, ancient birds and rounded with where have become the most ticklish subject in modern English Usage. If the englishlanguage properly organized it would be a word that meant both he and she so i could write it john americans, hesh will want to a tennis, which would save a lot of trouble. There have been many attempts to come up with the gender neutral pronoun. It for instance it, him or her, is him, bar wing from mandarin, shem and herm which some like noaas offspring, used by an online group devoted to sexual bondage. Gha ghachwhich is klingon. None of these have caught on surprisingly. We have the venerable english language usage pandit h. W. Fowler is seas three makeshift solutions for this deficiency in our language. We can use the socalled masculine ruling which he is understood to stand for either the masculine or the feminine, use he or she, himself or herself however awkward or revert to the non gender specific there which bends the number rule. That is what is happening and is going to happen but we are against it. And will paint on to our pronouns as long as we can. I hate to say it but the proper use of their or his or hers is wrong. It may solve the gender problem and no doubt has taken over spoken language but does so at the expense of number. And antecedent in this into a cannot take the place of a pronoun, certainly in speech, it is not fair. Why should the lowly common gender plural pronoun trouble our singular, feminine and bastion announce . Nobody seems to take very seriously, why not mix up a bit. Why cant a woman use feminine pronouns if she feels like it . What is stopping a man from filling in the her or sheep . Modern american usage entertains this very briefly but thinks that it could be dangerous, a male writer using he and she could be making it even worse, turning this crew a little, teasing, making it worse than it ever was before. I personally find when a male writer uses that it is very endearing and i know that it was a statement some new yorker writers started doing it with. Any mail writer in his use of pronounss is admirable. That small minority of men who are secure enough in their masculinity to use the feminine singular. I think it is possible the makeshift come more easily to meet because i have experience with the transplant. Nothing makes it clearer how intimately and deeply pronouns are imbedded in our lives than having to alters them with someone you have known all your life. I started studying italian and try to figure out which now owns were feminine and which were masculine and is not always easy. Just because it ends in a doesnt mean it is feminine, just because its the class in of this mean it is masculine. I was trying to figure this out, gender leaped out of the text looking to my life. My brother said he was transgendered. These two years younkers and me and we have been close or at least i thought we had been close, dropped to getting cleveland, escaped to new york, we were collaborators, this chapter goes on to describe pronoun words we heading cleveland and i sibling and die, my sister and i are good friends now but what has really jumped out in this paragraph, i dont know if you noticed this sentence, two years gender isnt me, i got so many letters about that, people reading along in the book, that is not one of them. Just made one about the word van and trying to answer all these letters at once and attached to the letter and say please see my video. Them can be a conjunction and i learned in third grade, two years younger rhythm i because of them would introduce the pause, subordinating conjunction and you are supposed to hear the understood i was. If you understood the firm following it, but a pronoun in the nominative case but then is the position. It is in the dictionary, you can look it up and it is a preposition it takes the objective case. Prepositions followed by me so i stand by, he was two years younger isnt me. One person wrote in with a sentence, younkers in the. Which was also true and thinking about making that change but the point i want to make, gets stuck on what i learned in third grade, his brothers, only for a couple days, not sentence diagraming but it is also a preposition, you can use prepositions, appropriate pronouns, objective pronouns and the only note i would add to that is somebody might notice i am about to launch into an intimate discussion of gender and family and that is not correct someones grammar. [applause] i am now since we are on pronouns and the title of the boat is between you and me and one thing i found that i am sick about is the title between between you and me. Some people have a bad habit of saying between you and i or they use the nominative pronoun when they should be using objective pronoun. I tried in this chapter to diagnose that problem and so glad people who good does it dont put me on stage with steven tinker. Steven tinker is a famous sidling list with really great hair. When i was in graduate School Living on my own in the vermont countryside i decided to learn how cars work. I wanted to be selfreliant. I drove a 65 plymouth, dark bluegreen with the huge expanse of windshield and the v8 engine which meant nothing to me. I knew how to pump gas and check the oil and change of flat tire. That is about it. My father had discouraged me from learning anything about the workings of the engine. When i said i wanted to learn how Congress Works he said it is easy, i will tell you everything you need to know. He put the key in the ignition and turned it. Like this. So i tried to take a course in auto mechanics, at the local high school. On the first night the auto mechanic use the word i had never understood, a gasket. I had known one once o