We hone youre enjoying the festival and we definitely it invite you to become a friends of the festival today by texting, friend to 520214 book as shown on the sign right over here in the front of the room or visit the friend of the festival booth on the mall your guess makes difference in keeping festival programming tree of chrnlg and supporting critical literacy programs in the community. Out of respect for it the authors and fellow audience members please turn off your cell phone at this moment and now im o going to introduce our authors here with us today so joe, joe is a veteran political journalist hes a founder tore in chief of the memo and editor of large fund of the nation sthiewt. His article have prepared anywhere you host probably ever read them. And hes notably covered every american president ial election since 1980. Hes author of man of the world the future endeavors of bill clinton that is what well be talking about today also father of nineyearold twins who are watching this live right now. So a little nod to them. Keep the questions clean. Exactly. J and he lives in new york city. Lisa, lisa napoli is author of ray and joan who made the mcdonalds fortune and woman who gave it all away. In review a dual biography of the man who made mcdonalds ubiquitous and two decades of had her life becoming one of the most generous philanthropist in American History so she actually had intended originally to write a biography solely of joan but you cant tell the story without of ray and radio which chronicled her time in and around the time invited to help start a Radio Station at the dawn of democratic rule there. She grew up in brooklyn but is los angeles transparent currently lives there downtown and runs a volunteer cooking club on skid row. Finally we have sam, his memoir for the love of money which established in july. Sorry of last year. Hes the cofounder and ceo of table a fore profit social enterprise that selling fresh, healthy affordable meals affordable for all and executive director of los angeles nonprofit that works in intersection of poverty and obesity. But prior to becoming social entrepreneur he was a senior trader for one of the biggest henl funds on wall street also on the verge of being at the very top and offered annual bonus of 4 million and grew angry that it was not enough and realized that he had to walk away from this obsessive pursuit from money. [laughter] lovely as he is he realized that culture of sexism and crude achievement of wall street where the soul measure of someones worth was their wealth was not for him and walked away from it all. Welcome to them. Were so excited to have them. [applause] so i thought wed start kind of with an opening question that might allow you all insight into what their books are about. If you havent had a chance to pick them up you can do so riect after this. But id love to start off is there a moment thatting brought you kind of incredible clarity around where your book was going right was there an interview or something that was like a moment where all of a sudden you like saw your way through the fog or for sam for you actually in the moment . Where you realized kind of what was going to be very important looking back and telling the story. I, i can start. So i was in 08, 09 on wall street for stive years and you know crash was happening, obviously, a crazy time on wall street, and women builders going down and bare sterns, and you know the whole world was shaking. Our hedge fund was in a decent position so we werent losing money but it was a scary time for everybody and around me was terrified and i had been going through this process starting to question a lot about what i was doing and where i was sort of standing many the world. And the crash really exasperated that so i remember being in a meeting with my billion mare who was one of the smartest guys yadz ever mets and it was we were in several other traders in of the room and we were talking about the Hedge Fund Regulations that were being proposed by congress, and everybody in the room thought they were a terrible idea. But i was starting to think that may made sense. So i said so and i said you know, wouldnt this be better for the system as a whole and it was this terrible moment [applause] it was like the music has been turned off my boss leaned across the table and shot me this withering glare saying sam, i dont have the brain capacity to think about the system as a whole. I can only think about what is good for us in our business. And you know, candidly it wasnt so much. I did judge him but i recognized him and i recognize myself in him and saw that for me you know, my whole life you know my book is really about ambition and my relationship with with my dads. But my whole life had been about, you know, clawing to the top and getting this money and getting this prestige and getting this business card. And i think in that moment i sort of came to understand that there was something off about that. That i also didnt want that. For the first time that sort ambition seemed to be no longer worth it. Id say for me, i had read mcdonalds wasnt helping me with this book nor was joan crocks family, and most of rays family wasnt helping me at that point so i was left to my own devices and i find a tiny old inch newspapers 1971 saying that joan had filed for divorce from ray. They didnt even name her. They said that wife of the mcdonalds ceo has filed for divorce. Citing violent, ungovernmentable temper and joan hadnt married ray until 69 a long affair on and and other spouses involved before they finally married so i was curious to find out more about about this. And i had had to call the cook county courthouse to get the divorce records. And it was a quite a trial to do that. Took a while finally papers arrived after i plunged down necessary cash for copying and i sat on the floor of our home office in downtown l. A. , graciously reading these legal papers from many years ago, and i found out the details of the divorce from joan that joan was alleging from against ray. And here, hearing it, with reading it in my mind and hearing it and imagining her going through this because it was quite a painful situation. I realized i known that joan had started an alcohol charity with rays money when she wasnt able to get ray help and that was interest to go. But knowing that moment on the floor in my office, that the depth of their despair, and their problem really made me realize i had to keep going and tell her story how she transcend that was so incredible and graceful. So i took eight years or maybe more to write my book. It began when i went to africa with bill clinton to write a profile of him for esquire magazine 2005 and one of the things that thatted there on that trip was i got to see the beginning of the aids, Hiv Aids Program that head started which was to bring medicine to to people suffering from aids in africa and elsewhere in the world where it was thought that it was unaffordable to provide them with drugs. And basically that was western world says going to let tens of million manies die. Clinton said no he and Nelson Mandela and he started this this Little Program that started out small in africa. And this was inned it been underway for a couple of years we went to the island of sudan zanzabar but a lot suffering from aids and they were hissen because it is it was a muslim country, and there was a lot of stigma attached to it then. And i met some families there getting relief and medicine and other support from clintons organization, and including some small children who were there with their parents or their mothers. Eight years later, we went back to zanzaba in 2013 i went back with clinton, and we went to the same organization that had brought these patients to Clintons Group in the first place, the organization of families with hiv or aids who had banded together basically to protect themselves against the rest of society. It had grown respected out in the open and had hundreds of members, they were all getting medication, and other support. And there was a young man there, a teenager i guess who had had a sign that he held up when clinton came and it had a picture of a little child on it and that was him. And i had met that boy eight years earlier when he was a young child, little child who had hiv, and probably would have died along with his mother and they were both alive and he came up to clinton and i saw clinton greet him and begin to weep and thats when i knew that that was the that was the core of the book. It didnt help me shape the book but i knew this was what was essential to this story of that people i think department know about what he had done and what it was about. So thanks. Im curious now all of these books are about at the core about kind of this tension of giving of big wealth and kind of these big contributions to society whether those are kind of through charisma is case of bill clinton. Or you know billions of dollars in the case of joan croc and im curious from all of you reading all of your books different ways that each persons personality is used to leverage fill ant fill philanthropy used to move forward with but as you were researching books or being with them or being the the person were talking about kind of behaviors that changed for, for these you all as individual or focus point as individual. How did they change overtime and how did giving actually make them different . Sure. For joan it was when ray died in 1984 that her philanthropy really took off. She had started this alcoholism Education Charity operation quirk before with with that. When he passed away in 84 and she pounds herself 55 years old one of the richest women in the world with about half a billion dollars, you know, thats pretty awesome and awe inspiring and it was the moment that a gunman went into mcdonalds not far from where joan was living at that time, and shot up the place. It was the worst mass shooting in American History at the time and joan was at this moment where she was in a relatively new widow. She had the opportunity to assert her authority at mcdonalds as a largest single individual shareholder. Which she never did. And she was just sort of coming into her own and she responded to this terrible tragedy in a mcdonalds by calling into this conference in the very next day announcing that she was starting a victims fund with her own money and almost challenging mcdonalds to participate too. So that kind of moment over time ting that gave her a taste of how incredible it was that she had this money and ability to do something magnificent with it. And over time she just basically closed down her foundation and decided that she wanted to check book giving when she met something doing Something Interesting she defied who most say with film fill angt i she wanted to respond and that to me so fascinating that she wasnt conventional but very is reactive. Sometimes strategic too. And that definitely at all began from 1984 on. So with clinton, i think that changes were kind of subtle, i mean, he, you know, there were ways in which philanthropy in the way he did it was similar to being a politician so he didnt have to change that much. When he started the aids program, he got on the phone to the other friends of his who were still heads of state. So the, you know ireland and Prime Minister of canada said how much are you boy in for basically im going to do this, and you know, i need money and they gave him ten of millions of dollars to buy these drugs. So there were similarities and similarly you know raising money from other kinds of individuals, i mean, as a politician, he had raised a lot of money by means that were admirable and less so. And in the world of running and operating charity not a foundation, but operating charity trying to bring money in youre raising money from wealthy individuals much the way people did in politics. Until sanders kind of changed the game a built. But so the changes were subtle but thrfsz one that i observed which was that when he was president , he supported patents on pharmaceutical drugs. U. S. Companies a enothers in europe wanted to keep strict patent and these made it very hard for genetic aids medication to be produced and al gore had gotten in trouble when he was running for president because the u. S. Government under clinton and gore had he protected the patent in International Forum from being broken so that more of these drugs could be o produced cheaper. He completely changed his position when he got out of office he switched to the other side got into a big fight with pharmaceutical companies and said to mac the generics and they did, and thats it broke strangle hold of the Generic Company led to many more people being able to get aids drugs so in that way, you know he was noticeably liberate ared not being in office anymore. Not having to do what people expected u. S. Administration to do to protect American Patents not anymore because he had gotten up on a stage with Nelson Mandela and said were going to change this and they did. So i, you know, i guess my answer to this question, i want to like talk about this idea of giving and this sort of standard or old way that sort of philanthropy has worked at least this this country where its like ray croc and croc family where you spend your life accumulating money through a business pursuit and then at the some point whether 50s ore 60s at the ends of the year you stop accumulating and pivot and start giving that money away and a i think the long and short of that is that is sort of not working and theres a few reasons for that. First of all this internal issue of you know you build up a lot of sort of sensibilities and skill and Defense Mechanisms as sort of accumulating that wealth and also distance from i think folks who are living in poverty or needs a structural help. So that, that is hard in general. I think the second thing is that the truth of the matter is that businesses are just profoundly Stronger Economic vehicles than nonprofits can ever be. So if you think about a business with, you raise money but then you start this business that sort of grow organically and has power over time a nonprofit is quite the opposite of that. You have to raise money every single year, 100 of your revenue. You basically cant hire sort of skilled people or really pay them much for a long period of time because donors dont like you to pay a lot of high salaries to those folks theres no equity to insent vise people like theres in silicon valley. And so you basically have this structure where businesses are creating all of this check power and wealth and then nonprofits are sort of setting up how to fix problem that happen in the society which are caused by business and some of which arent. But they have kind of like major problems and nonprofits because they are under resource and dont have that kind of structural power cant really fix those problems but kind of under resource and less powerful than those businesses so all of this is to say like for me ive been thinking about this. And about this idea of like, you know, so far theres been this sort of like idea where you either have to, you know, make a lot of money and set out to be successful and thats what youre doing. Or you have to sort of issue all of that and go work for the pace corps. And not make money and live in hot bisquely and theres something about that i think that leads to sort of propounds first of all unhappiness on both sides i think that humans are very sort of complicated complex people with sort of multitudeness motivations. Some of which are deeply selfinterested some of which about common good and bringing together society and community together. And in standards structure of giving those two things are split so you have a lot of businesspeople that really like their money. And really care about their companies and by the way are doing a tremendous amount of good in the world by paying a lot of people and making jobs and positive changes through their businesses but a lot of time those same folks feel in my opinion are least in my experience, very hollow and something is missing and then you have people who are doing goods in the world and feel satisfied by that work but live in the crummy apartment and really wish they have more money and could invest in all of these things sort of business folks have. So thats just all a long way of saying that yods think this social Enterprise Movement basically a movement about socially conscience businesses and organizations that can harness this economic power of business with a philanthropic mind set all that is necessary so no matter how sort of smart it gets or u how democratic or o coordinated those sort ofs orings in my opinion sort of are going to have a tough time sort of fixing huge problems. Lets stick with that theme of i think underlying that is just a huge idea of breaking rules and in terms of how peel are giving now so that is probably on the one side of the spectrum of what that looks like with creating social enterprise and creating them but certainly joan if we think about how she was giving so one of the stories that lisa tells in the book is when joan was like in the midst of giving everything away, ray had purchased the San Diego Padres at one point, and she decided she was going to give the San Diego Padres rather than selling it been in a bunch of deals of people she didnt think were good humans at the end of the day. She had tried to give the San Diego Padres to this city of san diego. Right, and, of course, like the Major League Baseball didnt approve the transaction because it would have meant that all of their financials became more or less public. And so i think that thats a very different way to think about giving and also if we think about bill clinton right he was essentially using the trope of being a politician to carry it forward and become a kind of different type of fill fill and talking about that role when you were writing books. Thats exactly what clinton thought when he built Clinton Global Initiative that was the theme of that was he had gone to World Economic form for several years and given speech there is. And notice that they talked a lot about how to fixes problem it is in the world and then they didnt do anything. And so the idea of Clinton Global Initiative was they would have a campus