So they gave a speech at the Washington Institute three years ago and they were asked by Paul Wolfowitz is whether they perceive themselves as and they will turn their guns on israel. So basically if we assumed that he was correct, otherwise he sent me an email that the region is of this, what is happening is that we allowed the state to deploy this. So they are cultivating this again and so we know that we will eventually have to fight this, but who will initiate that . As opposed to others. Could you just make one last comment . Are a lot more people that want to deal with this as well. Thank you. You know, i always understood to state solution to automatically include gaza. But its practically an independent state all by else. What do you propose . And what you see with the future of israel and gaza. We left him in 2005 and i was done with lee opposed to it. But i think that the makes lemonade out of lemons. Because we left under no legal argument and kennedy argued in a serious way. But that is just because the world of which we live. So it cannot be argued by israel. So let them do what they want. If they want to call themselves palestine they can. If they want to call themselves afghanistan, they can. And they can do anything they want to. So to a certain degree we also understand its arguable and probably reasonable to claim that israel announces its claim to sovereignty. When we last i dont see how its possible how we renounced it when we remove removed remove the civilians. So i dont know, but i dont any reason to give them the same status as well. [inaudible question] first, i would like to day the clarity is wonderful in your writing. And as curious as to how you envision the impact of israels natural gas as well as the natural gas in europe today and how that will play out in this paradigm. Talk about that in the chapter because it is my contention that the most irresponsible come from the europeans instead of the arabs. Because really because that is part of the only Foreign Policy that has ever been. So i explain why in chapter 15. So reasonably a lot of people have talked about this. They will somewhat ruckus financially and i certainly dont believe in the capacity of europeans to do economic damage to israel. They are the second largest trading partner. Including growth rates and increased willingness to go against the eu policies. So what i consider to be the probable breakup of these in the future and also the fact that the progovernment is britain, really. And yet British Trade keeps increasing by leaps and bounds because the meter technology. After a certain degree the threats are much harder than the bite. But assuming the worst, israel has already been vastly expanding its trade relations with Asian Countries are in and year out between india and china and israel. As has to a degree with japan when you add in the fact that israel has now become the next exporter with the massive natural offshore gas that we have begun using. Then you see the damaged that europe would be capable of causing to the economy, it is real and i dont think in the near term it is paralyzing. I do think it is a mitigating actor that we have become a Net Energy Exporter and we have reserves of shale oil that are 60 of saudi arabias claim and waiting for the environmentalist to finally be defeated and as they claim this but they can produce oil for 40 per barrel, we will become a massive economic superpower but i am looking at the eggs. So thank you all very much for coming today. [applause] [applause] youre watching booktv. Nonfiction authors and books every weekend on a statue. Now on booktv, the coverage of the Los Angeles Times festival of books from the university of Southern California. The festival is on its 19th year and a host of over hundreds of authors and 150,000 attendees over two days. This year we have panels on feminism, World Politics and a discussion with scientists and carat diamond. We begin our coverage with a panel on the war featuring david finkel. Hello, i am a staff writer and im talking about the realities of war three distinguished writers who have attacked the subject from different angles. Has been documenting the effects of war on the human psyche. The most recent book, critically acclaimed thank you for your service chronicles challenged by american soldiers and families in wars aftermath. It has received numerous awards. The previous book, the good soldiers, best selling account of an Infantry Battalion won multiple awards, named the top 10 book of the year by the new york times, and hes an editor and writer for the the washington post, reporting from central america, asia, europe, and covered in war in kosovo and iraq. Among the honors are a Pulitzer Prize and genius grant in 2012. Heres david moore, a former marine infantry officer. He covered the wars in iraq and afghanistan for slate, salon, and virginia quarterly review. His first dispatch for the virginia quarterly review from iraq titled the big sock notes from the jar head undergrant was requireed in the best reading in 2007. Appeared in the new yorker, Foreign Policy, and surfers journal. In january 2015, hell release his book, biography of posttraumatic stress disorder. To the left is the author of childrens books trancelated into 20 languages. Her poem, stories, and essays appear in atlantic monthly, knew statesman, the guardian, and many other publication. Her memoir losing tim life and death of an American Contractor in iraq which is about her son comes out april 2014 from sink teeth publishings. Welcome our guests. [applause] so mr. Finkle, you follow the 216 Army Battalion in the reserve, thank you for your service and research. One of the central characters is Sergeant Adam shyman. Which would tell us the story . Well, sure. First of all, thanks for coming today. He might have been one of the 22 a day chris was referring to. Quick thing about that number. The l. A. Times was reporting on this figure. Its just to be clear, its not 22 iraq and afghanistan vettes a day. Its all veterans, and when you examine that 22, if you look at the 22 on a particular day, i mean, most the suicides are happening, but most of the folks have gone on from their service and done many other things. The great number are folks who are over60. Theres been other Life Experiences along the way. Its just worth pointing out, the assumption is its a direct line of a war experience to suicide. While thyme not saying its not, its not that it necessarily is. The other part of the 22 is that when we look at the 2011 numbers, the most recent, there is a spike in the number of young people who are taking their lives. Adam shoeman, happy to say, is not one of them, but might have been. I met him while i was reporting my first book, the good soldiers, when, during a quiet period, i was asking around one day, so, who is a great soldier i need to meet. One young officer said, so, this guy, shoeman, hes about the bestment time went by, got busy, did reporting, got quiet again, and then i saw this guy, walked into the room, and the great soldier who is waiting in that room was by himself. He was gaunt. He was haunted looking. He was sitting alone on his bunk. I introduced myself, and said, i hear youre a great soldier. He said, maybe so, but im leaving. What happened has happened so often that after three deployments, a thousand days in rather intense combat, this great soldier just couldnt do it anymore. I stayed with him until he left the war, cant remember if it was that day or the next day, but the helicopter out of there, was a man we can quarrel all day about the policies of the wars, but this was a guy, who by every measure had been a great soldier and as he walked to the helicopter out of the war, he was not feeling any sense of accomplishment or success, but this was a man in his mid20s cloaked in guilt and shame for having to leave, that he couldnt do it. Waiting for the helicopter, maybe six guys in line, helicopters come in, you can imagine a loud clattering scene, noise, dust, blah, blah, blah, the line moves forward, and when he gets to the front of the line, the guy stops him. He yells, next ones yours. Everyone leaves. Its him, by himself, waiting for the next helicopter, here it comes eventually, its a helicopter with a big red cross on the side, and he gets it. Its the helicopter for the injured and the dead, and thats who hes become. Thats his identity now. Hes injured. Hes dead. Hes done. He goes home. My sense in the first book, and im almost done. The first book was not to write about the iraq war, but to write intimately, journalistically about young men going into a war at a particular moment, type of journalism i do does not involve something happened and them you go afterwards and do interviews about what happened. You show up. You stay. You watch what unfolds. In this case, the illuminating question in 2007, when the war seemed to have reached its lost moment and, perhaps, its tragic moment, is what becomes of a young man who goes into a war at such a moment, and adam turnedded out to be one of the answers i got. When its time for the next book, because i wrote about the deployment of the infan ri battalion, it was a rough deployment, came home, book came out, and they began getting in touch with me saying they were not doing very well. Anxiety, sleeplessness, depression, things they were not expecting, and so it occurred to me is that tragic moment, make this was it, not there, but here as all of these people who did well in the battalion now get down to trying to recover from the experiences of what they did, what they saw, what they didnt do, what they tried not no see, and on it goes. Adam comes home, and thank you for your Service Begins with him, opening line of the book is two years later, adam drops the baby. The book goes on from there to trace not only adam, but his wife, their children, and this whole cluster in kansas of people who served well and are now trying to get better. I have a question about the reporting of the book, david. Okay. Reads semilessly now, but how do you get a map for it . You have vets around the country, you dont know which ones necessarily something that will be useful to you in your book will happen to. How do you with only one family at a time, how do you how do you device a plan to devise a plan to use time first timely . Well, if the figures are right, of the 2 million americans deployed doctorately in iraq and directly into iraq and afghanistan,25 returned with some type of psych logical wounds to contend with. Thats a lot of characters to choose from; right . Adam was the starting point, and, again, the type of journalism i do depends on being present, and the fact i was with that battalion for eight months, i didnt visit the story, but i stayed with it. When bad things happen to the dpies and i was present for that, i didnt become a problem for the soldiers, but help them understand what a reporter does. When it came time for the secede book, some trust had been established and rather looking anywhere, i could start with adam and just build out from there, and its just the same thing. First book embedding in war with people, and second book was embedding with families. The trust came from the first book because everybody in that book, i knew from a particular war experience. It just its the usual journalism thing. I want to know what youre going through, i think it needs to be written about, and i want to come hang out with you. I dont know hoping it takes, ill be around a lot. By the way, you cant see the book until its published because i cant im writing about you. You cant be your own editor or a censor of your story. It requires a leap of faith on your part, and if youre good to go, lets go. After that, what do you do . You hang out. You are filled with indecision because every day with that family i was not with another family thinking, what am i missing . Shouldnt i be over there . Its just, you do the best you can. Okay, thanks. David morris, your book is the evil hours biography of post posttraumatic stress disorder. Tell us how that formed into a book. I came from a military family, and when my dad served in vietnam, my neighbors had. I dont really know how to answer the question because its all of my life grew out of military. I felt like vietnam was a lot of my childhood. That was the first and ptsd comes from vietnam, but not recognize the until 1980. It actually grew out of the vietnam war experience. In writing the book, i was trying to find my interests, and that was one of the first question i remember ever asking my father was what happened in vietnam . He was washing the car at the time, and i remember how he took the hose off the car, the stream of water going into the sidewalk, one of these, you know, moments, and you know, went into the service to really once i left college, and ptsd is not on the minds of marines and soldiers a lot on active duty, but if you are familiar with the literature of war and seen taxi driver, the deer hunter, any of the Great American war movies, you get a sense. Ptsd is in film. Some of the best documents of ptsd are in film so you grow up with the awareness of it if you have any sense of history, and i pixed that up from my dad, his friends, just growing up around marines. I grew up in san diego, inarguably the most biggest military city in america. I felt like i was steeped in it. We invaded iraq, a war posted before anyone thought it up, and i found that a lot of my friends from college, buddies i train with were all over there, and it was impossible to ignore the war. I was working as a reporter at that point, and, you know, people make joikses about ptsd all the time in iraq. You got the ptsd thing going . Its a source of jokes, and, you know, its juch a common its the fourth most diagnosed psychiatric disorder in the world, and associated with soldiers in a big way, but its something that if youre around the military and spend any time on base or around soldiers, you know, around marines who returned, its part of the conversation. I was in a bar the other day, and i ran into someone who started a private ptsd clinic. Its everywhere in Southern California, which has the largest in the country. We live in a trauma culture in some ways, but its part of the environment at this point. You wrote there a growing number of sigh countrytists and researchers understanding ptsd and the nature as an ailment. They argue its locked into a mind set that over diagnoses without them with the ability to heal themselves. Can you explain the gist of the controversy . Well, its people have people are they hear theres criticism of ptsd, its hard to wrap your head around the idea. Theres a surplus of sympathy for veterans. We all want that we want to thank them for our service, and thats something i preermt the the title of davids book. People thank my for service because i served i had not served in iraq, and people thanked me for it, and i think some veterans said, iraq veterans, said, i feel like everyone assumes we all have ptsd, and that we pathology jiz the experience, and if you went there and blown up once or spent a week in baghdad that youre broken. I think there is a tent sigh to look at soldiers being through it and looking as if there was always a negative damaging experience with them, when, in fact, 85 of people go to war and are generally okay. I mean, its not you know, the war stays with all veterans for all their lives, but to assume that everyone has been damage by it is kind of going too far, and i think we have to be honest and i think there is so the disconnect, emotional goals between civilians and soldiers is so great, and i think civilians, people have not served, peel such a burden to give something to give Something Back to veterans, and i think ptsd has become this way of this gift that, you know, if we can extend sympathy in the form of the disorder, in the form of the acronym, the four letters, that, can somehow make up that can, you know, that makes up for the fact that we sent you to war, and you got screwed up, or you, you know, you had to sacrifice a lot of your life to, you know, these stupid wars. I think there its a way for its a coping mechanism, and this is something i heard a lot of soldiers say, and marines say that, well, when someone thanks me for the service, i feel its about them, their emotional needs met, not mine. There civilians say that because they feel something. They feel uncomfortable, guilty, feel they want to communicate something, and so they say, thank you for your service, and i think ptsd is related to than the instinct i want pedes an honest conversation . Absolutely. I think we thank people thank me. Ive been thanked repeatedly. Im not a combat veteran, i served in the peacetime marine corp. So most veterans i talk to says it does make them feel uncomfortable. Its weird. Its easy to complain and say, well, you know, america didnt do this or that, i dont know what i want people to say to me except maybe nothing and lets have a conversation instead. Lets talk about if youre interested and want to talk about iraq, ill talk until your ears are blue about iraq. Lets get into it, talk about travel poll politics, talk about the middle east was a creation on the maps, you know, british cartographers. Lets get into it. Dont talk through the bull appointments what you think war was to you, what you saw on television. I, you know, im dying that you know, i love talking about iraq with people. If they are willing to have an honest conversation, ill tell you how scared i was, how freakedded out i was, you know, all the mystical experiences i had, it was a quasireligious experience for me. How much i loved it. How much i miss it. Ill talk about it all day, but people get freaked out, civilians get scared, and its a taboo subject, its like talking about rape or sexual abuse. People think its an untouchable subject, and i guess i, you know, i want rather than thanking me for the service or thanks a veteran, take five minutes and think of a question, like, hey, what was it like . How do you feel . What unit were you with . Learn the unites. Like hemmingway words a meaningless to veterans. They want to talk about days, places, and their buddys names. Think of a different way to approach this in topic, i guess. A ranger and captain and civilian crier, shot and killed himself in 2004. Memoir is losing tim american death of a contract in iraq out this year. You wrote tim was disrespondent and enrage by the Bush Administration in baghdad, corruption, incompetence, greed, lives, the stupidity, disillusionment cut deep. You said we,