As i said earlier, i know my lane. Cam knows his lane. His lane, Doug Williams lane, the fact is his coaches are comfortable with him, his teammates are comfortable with him. Looks we are we are out of time. This was a great conversation, went by fast. Congratulations on it. I enjoyed reading to it and talking to you. I hope that people will go buy it and gains and wisdoms from my experience. Thank you. Cspan where history unfolds daily, in 1979 cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television company and is brought to you today by satellite and provider. And we wrap up book tv with representative dave, he remembers victory over House Majority leader eric canter and interviewed on after words program. Dave, its greats to to be with you. Thanks for showing it to the cameras. [laughter] i have written a book myself. Very nice. Im eager to talk about this because i enjoyed the read. You can tell i have pages. A plus. As you know i worked in the house of representatives as a staffer to a former economics professor. Awesome. Yeah. We talked about this and here you are, a former free Market Economics professor, i guess still a professor but now in the u. S. House of representatives. I love and all the guys have been role models, you cant put free Market Economics and values together into your politics. Thats why i was sofas sofas nateed in your book. Yeah. The fact is a lot of people came to know you in your surprise victory one of the things about your book tells who dave is, im just wondering if you can talk about this in overview and we will go into details about how theres the synthesis between ethics and economics and politics. Thats primarily why i wrote the book. Conservative ideas go back to regan and the founders, no, its about a 4,000 year tradition and i wish everything was a synthesis these days. You do narrow Little Things where all previous scholarship for the last 3,000, whatever hundred years it was all about synthesis. All the greater thinkers, all the way up to enlightenment thinkers, jefferson, madison, they all took the classics, they took greek, hebrew, latin and math, english. That was the liberal arts education. I taught in liberal arts colleges because i believe so much in that synthesis. I just we wanted to show, folks, i dont know whether i did a great job or not but its still possible, right, it should hang together and the ethics, if your ethics dont match up with the economic logic like carl marks, he couldnt line up economic incentives with ethics and its doomed to failure. Where smith, jefferson, madison, those do line up and mesh but both of them wanted a large number of small competitors. Adam smith, free market ideal and they work. We are not teaching the kids enough of that these days and so i wanted to put out 200 pages, first edition, we will see if i get better over time. [laughter] one of the things that i was struck by with this, the complementary aspect as you put it in sub head here, economic politics are linked and this is page 27, i was intrigued by this. God works sixth day and rested on the seventh. Do not steal the word presumes private property and do not covet. Can you tell a little bit more about why you see our founding as tied an important in the faith. Wasnt thing our founders did not see, they saw clear but you got at it, they could not see a day where the Judeo Christian tradition wasnt taken as a given and we are kind of there right now, thats debatable. Theres all debate of jeffersons wall between church and state. The First Amendment is about that. The separation of church and state and the prez, et cetera, no establishment of a relincoln but free exercise thereof. Its. Interesting, the left, the soul of the American University, i went to princeton seminary. Lets make a deal. You take the schools but you have to teach ethics. Now, the left has not only taken those schools but they said you can no longer teach ethics, theres no natural law taught anymore. You bring up religion in a brown bag you get laughed out of the room. This is for real. Everyone talks about a separation of church and state but its very interesting. Paul ryan when he looks at the he sees moses, that got him a separation, no law. No ten commandants in our secular society, i dont think so. I show compassion and love, showed up about zero. Roam wasnt the most loving society, right. [laughter] cold sterile, brutal, the doctrine of love at zero, do you want a separation of compassion and love from our tradition . To the left, i know what they mean, they dont want religious establishment, but if you do a total separation, human rights claims and human rights emerge only in western europe at about 1400 out of judeo tradition. To those rights we argue and founders madison that they per seed the existence of government. Do you want a separation of that in do rights exist yes or no in i wanted to push the thinking a little bit. We are at part of a tradition which has hard time with First Amendment and toleration. I wanted to push the idea and get a good debate going. Thats part of what was going on. You mentioned the catholic tradition, im catholic, i was struck by later on in the book, a little later in the book how you delve into the works of st. Agus tin and thomas. Yeah. I find that my faith informs pretty much everything i do, how i live my life. Same here. How does your faith, its clear in your book, talk a little bit about how your faith informs your Public Service my dad moved us to minnesota in ninth, thanks, dad. I dropped my girl off at school, starting ninth grade. Went to princeton seminary. Next to American University and there was a great liberal friend of mine who wrote economics and ethics in the same book and so that was the fire, so i knew i wanted to teach philosophy and theology in college. Once i saw the combination of economics and ethics in a book, that was it. I went to work for the army a little bit and worked in philippines on Education Sector stuff and i met my wife and was lucky enough, we both moved down to randolph. Ran the Ethics Program for 18 years. Thats how i live it out. It is my calling, putting those two things together and keeping the conversation going. A lot of this book is old lecture notes. Now, this is not a memoir, obviously a book like we talked about economics, ethics, philosophy. Yeah. But you did touch on what you just mentioned here, meeting laura as you were closing on ph. D. Yeah. Because its not a memoir theres not much detail about that, im sure the viewers would like to know a little more story there. Yeah. How did you meet laura, she and kathy and i consider you both friends. Same here. How did you come to meet her, date her and get married. A mutual friend set up a blind date, it was awkward, hi, how are you doing and started talking and we had values in common, kids, family setup. Really, in dc. I met a normal person. [laughter] i love it up here. We had the same Judeo Christian outlook. Shes catholic and im protestant. Im catholic now so you see who won now. [laughter] married how long . 20 years and jonathan went off to college. Dropped the oldest off at college. Dropped the oldest one. Any tear shed. It hit me way harder. So thats not good but, boy, it hit me when you see empty room every night. Thats not good. Jonathan probably not so much . Right. Hes doing all right. [laughter] except for uva lost to richmond. A lot of people are. [laughter] this is great, i wanted to come back to Something Else that you talk about in the book that, i think, is really telling because you touch on obviously our founding. Yeah. Which is something those of frus va from virginia, the horizontal separation of powers. Hes phenomenal. The vertical as well that the states were to be a check on federal executive Branch Authority and yeah. Absolutely. And can you talk a little bit about what youre seeing both in terms of the horizontal and vertical checks and balances and the problem that creates for us as government. He went to princeton seminary, college in new jersey back then. He studied hebrew. This is smart guy. Hebrew tradition i was at my stump speeches, angels or a little bit fallen three chapters. If thats the tradition that informs your thinking and youre the author of the constitution, what do you do, you separate power every way you can. Vertically and horizontally, the vertical separation federal, state, local, theres 18 enumerated powers and the founders knew that and we violated that beyond comprehension. Mike has a picture in his office where in 2013 the house did 5inches of bills and the executive branch did 11 feet. You get the sense, we are upside down. We are. We know about executive overreach for the last several years every day and we have to push things back. The easiest way to see the direct bottom line and the data, the federal programs are the ones insolvent by their own board of trustees within 14 years and everything the fed touches, in ten years all federal revenues will two to just those entitlement programs. We wont have a dollar left for the military, education, transportation, et cetera, thats not me. Thats the best data up here. Its the main graph, evidence. We are not antigovernment. If you want flowers at the local level, vote on it. Go buy flowers, right, if you want a wellrun state with good transportation, good education, by the way, education is in the constitution of the state. An excellent education. Its in the we have to do that. We should do that, but the fed, i got pants on fire. We did, i dont know how they founded to be false, go check again, you guys. We debate it. At the lookal school and federal level. You have mention of checks and balances, you make an interesting point. Even if some of the implications a few conservatives may not like and i thought that was an interesting point and that was the case. Thats right. If the people vote, right, the key is we are supposed to be a democratic republic. That doesnt mean you get to win every debate. That means you have a fair process in a democratic republic, if the folks vote for more flowers and your a fiscal hawk, you lose. You move with your feet and these kinds of things. You can move and you want a large number of options. I mentioned this, dave, from time to time to folks specially young people, the federal government is the creation of the states. Yeah. It is remarkable to me how few people realize that. Right. And i thought your point about the federalist checks and balances gets overlooked a lot of the times because we are concerned about the trampling of the separation of powers between the legislative and judicial branches and the executive branch abuse there. Its powerfully evident when it comes to overriding the prerogatives of the states. We so so many cases in this regard obviously for virginia we know how important it is to clean power plant and epa overviews and it would be devastating in southwest virginia. Right. 23 states have said no and unfortunately we are not among them but i sure hope that the legislative branch at the federal level upholds the state prerogatives when it comes to the overreach and puts a stop to that. It is important to know how this has come about. Some people think its the executive doing a power graph. In some respects its our own fault too in congress. Roe v. Wade. This guy over here. Now we are doing the same thing with executive. We vote on clean air, clean power and we tell executive branch and youve given in law federal government tremendous power. Yeah. Now the farmer like you say and the ranchers in virginia and everybody is learning what that looks like and theyre having a hard time staying afloat. We need to retain article one, Congress Shall make all laws, right . And this fear you talk about in casting the tough votes, is that one of the reasons that youre a strong proponent of strong limits and are you termlimiting yourself. You are. 12 years. A couple of authors had the number and if you have your eye and become leadership, et cetera, theres a lot of great guys and seniority goes with that. This day the money is so dominant. We had president ial on the republican side and dems side, 80 outside votes go to president ial candidates. The American People put all the incumbents again in congress, roughly. Amazing power of the, you know, purse of winning elections and on top of the money part, people are lining themselves up to be a chairman of the committee. People want to do that. If you work in lock step in order to get the slot, you can start looking, both sides do this. If youre not doing whats best for the country all of the time. To me its consistent with the founders, speaking of the founders with citizen part time. Right. As you know, i ran for the senate and got closed and that i would serve no more than two terms because i think its important that be the mind set and mentality. Speaking of the founders, do you have a separate founder and who sit and why . Probably madison just because of seminary and i love the constitution that kind of thing. But washington is interesting to me because he just stands out. Theres all the other guys in jefferson and virginia, big and we are blessed with just history in virginia but washington just for the more i read on them, hes the one guy that everybody likes. He walked into a room and hes the man. Yeah. Everybody revered him. They just differ automatically so the problem with books you dont quite get to see them live, you get to see whats the look on the guys face. Yeah. Who is this guy that all the great men who have ego turn to him. This is it. Yeah, yeah. That would thats might be. Iliff on one of his old farms. Amazing. I tell you i was over on a business trip in london recently and i was talking to a british historian, and i mentioned to him and we were talking about the founding, many of us including me believe that theres divine inspiration and divine provinence and he said its possible that the British Empire could have defeated george washington, but george washington, thomas jefferson, the whole bloody lot of them, no way. [laughter] right, right, thats true. Really remarkable. You talk in here about underpinning of the moral case for Free Enterprise, which i think is missing often. It is. From conservative comement air and the republican side. I believe like you do that, Free Enterprise system is the greatest supplier of human needs and economic justice. You make that point, i thought really impressively in the book. Page 198, freedom and earnings, i dont know if the camera can pick it up. The next show it is 10 of earners to the most free market, poor, fair, better under capitalism. Always. Always. History, data show it. So those dont have the book, go out and buy it. This chart is definitive proof of that and, you know, one of the things we also talked about here and mentioned work, we understand that theres not just economic value and labor as ph. D as you know thats the case, theres Human Dignity in work. Absolutely. A market economy that has Dynamic Growth allows for people to know the dignity of work. Right. This data, why dont more people understand it and where is this kind of enamored by socialism. Yeah. Coming from . Well, unfortunately the political divide, right, i grew up with liberals and liberals, the root word of liberals is liberty and smith is a Classical Liberal and so is madison and the lines have gotten confused. Its not just incomes. I ran thousands of regressions on all the indicators. Ges where you have the cleanest environment . Capitalist companies. Guess where you the most political rights, civil liberties, this. You talk about the dignity of work, one of my favorite scholars, the sixvolume set, shes chicago trained but i think shes double ph. D or triple, maybe. Every person on the planet made a thousand dollars a year per capita income. In 1700 you get a hockey stick. Massive Economic Growth. She takes on 20 nobel lorreates. First time in history moral language changed such that we started calling the businessman, a businesswoman morally good and if you think that through, my tradition hasnt been perfect on that. Abraham, moses, jesus, gandhi, anybody, any tradition, agustin, mohamed, et cetera, no where in that line you find someone saying capitalism or free markets is morally good, its something you put up with but we change thelingo and the problematic thing is that its reversible. Right now you have, what are we teaching our kids in school k12, are we teaching that its morally good or hey, its kind of corrupt. Business wall street is nasty and unfortunately there are a few bad apples but the prodominance of evil are basically good. Every Small Business person wants to give their employees health care. When i knock thousands of doors, thats one thing i learned. I learned real economics. People are basically very good an want to help employees. We have to reverse that moral language and teach the kids that work its not just work, its not a skill, its a calling. Right. You better be happy and passionate about what you do every waking hour of your life, right, or otherwise youre going to have a miserable life. We have to pump the kids up and show them. This is good for you and by the way, its good politics too because youre telling the kids the truth and youre pumping them up on business and the left is a little critical specially in business and i think we have a winning theme there. Talking about young people, obviously College Professor and you enjoyed it clear from the book, you love being a teacher. Not just a professor, would you encourage today your students or students to get involved in politics. Yeah, i do, but in there i kind of sit my sigh dolls, playdo, they both gave same council. Do math till your 30 and philosophy until your 50 and politics at 50 when youre near death. That was in ancient greece and so youre done with wine, women and song and instill wisdom in yourself and take care of appetites with playdo and make sure youre done with that deal. Come do internships on capitol hill. You learn. Go into a vocation first and i thought you were going to ask about going into the teaching too. Always major in your passion. I was adviser too for 18 years. Make sure you do what you lo