Can you break that down for us . Guest probably the most recent change came in the 1970s when the Democratic Party changed the rules for the delegates which led many states to switch from whatever process they were using from president to primary comes with a Big Corporation of president ial primaries in the 1970s that changed the process to more of a National Process where the candidates that do well in the early primaries do better in subsequent primaries that you start watching the race unfold across the nation. Host how is it if you do well in the primary what are the changes the party did . Guest there were no fools how they did so sometimes they were appointed and sometimes they were like local party officials. Many of them were appointed before the election. And even there, the connection may not directly related to the kind of delegates who would be sent to the convention. So the rules were the process would have to be timely in the year and it had to be focused for the event to be publicized. Its the easiest way to conform to the new rules. Why did they make the changes . Guest the 1968 convention where it was a disaster. So that was the convention that Hubert Humphrey won but there was the opposition of Eugene Mccarthy and Robert Kennedy delegates. They felt they had been shortchanged in their ability to get their support at the convention. There was flooding on the lower fighting on the floor so they were going to develop a commission to look for the rules for the delegate selection. Guest republicans didnt do much with the rules. They were going to leave it up to the states and they needed. Or they could have caucuses or a state convention. But generally, the process kind of came to life. Host when were the first primaries ever held in the system . Guest in the early 19 hundreds, so the president ial primary was 1912 that conducted the disaster. They were getting the support from the traditional players in the party and roosevelt won most of the primaries but it wasnt enough to get him the nomination so he stopped out and created the party that resulted in the republicans losing the president ial race. Its kind oit kind of put a holr a while. The president ial primaries were not until after world war ii. They were around the state in the president ial primaries but they were always connected to the delegate selection. So they were not important until after it became important. Host when did the smokefilled back rooms fadeaway . Guest the early 19 hundreds not so much because of the president ial primaries, but because of other outside influences. Or, we started to get good Public Opinion polling in the 1930s or so and since the aim of the convention is to nominate a popular president ial candidate, they often followed the polls. It may not have been a formal polling tha but it had a lot of influence. Theres also more outside pressure from interest groups. The media provided more coverage so that sort of limited the abilities of the backroom deal. Host early on you said it helped later victories. Guest that is a classic momentum idea. So when iowa or New Hampshire gives a lot of Media Attention it will get them more campaign contributions. The National Polling smoke a lot and this should help them win in subsequent primaries. Sometimes this momentum can rehearse. You might think of that as somewhat classically momentum but the ability to overtake Hillary Clinton in 2008 was a sort of switch from the front runner in the beginning to one that went over to obama as the primary continued. Host what is the philosophy behind the caucus rather than primary . Guest the caucuses the older format and the idea is that you have people coming into a Community Center or library or gymnasium. And supposedly, discussing the candidates and how they met kind of a grassroots democracy is now the preferences that are pretty firm, but it is a way to socialize with your neighbors and perhaps do that process. But its very drawn out so its the first thing. Host does the system work . Guest it works as well as anything else we can think of right now so it does bring lots of different kind of voices. Members of the house make for those individuals so we get a lot of different voices that come into the process. It doesnt produce a smooth result but probably passing into at least some of those voices. Host has it weakened the party . Guest it depends what youre talking about. The National Parties have a little bit of difficulty controlling the process. But then again, the state parties perhaps had a bout of influenza in the past as well. So, the parties have been weakened by lots of things that happened in the past. The patronage weekend the parties economic benefits from being a part of the party process. The state walls have regulated the parties pretty heavily and theres lots of competition for the parties and consultants that will advise the candidates and the social media. The parties have been weakened but its not just because of this. Host why would one state hold a closed primary if another was an open primary . Guest it has a lot to do with tradition and going back to the 19 hundreds when the law was passed. The states that have the minorities of a close primary to restrict participation to people who were registered. Others where the Progressive Movement was stronger or more likely to adopt an open primary. Although they do not have as much effect on the primary as many people think. Host the author of this book be i the imperfect primary commodities, biases and strengths of the u. S. President ial nomination politic what is an oddity . Guest it is odd to have the primaries and caucuses open and some people being closed and the fact that theres lots of people influencing whats happening in the National Parties in the state parties and campaigns. Host why do they bring superdelegates into the process . Guest the superdelegate is an elected official, sometimes a party leader. It was in 1980 by the democrats and it responds to what happened after the reform and the conventions in 72 and 76 didnt have the traditional senators or representatives of governors being made a part of the process. So they wanted to bring back the voice of those individuals who traditionally have some influence, so they developed those in the 1980s and since that time the delegates do have the ability to decide which candidate they want to support regardless what happens. Host why did you write this book and what was the goal . Guest to explain how we got where we are today and talk about some of the suggested reforms imply they also might have some oddities and to give people a little more Historical Context and background so they can understand why we have what we have today. Host our candidates chosen prior . Guest they are chosen by a convention where state delegates are usually regular and they didnt have much information about what was happening. They got the required number of the delegates to win. There was a Democratic Convention so there could be a more extended race. Everything was happening within the convention. There wasnt a lot of outside influences for the president ial nominee. Whawith potential changes do you see on the horizon . Guest the republicans between 2012 and 2016 made it so they were selected across the states to reflect that initial caucus vote and not so much some of the things that would happen after the fact. You might see some more of that. The widespread reform isnt very likely because it controls the entire process that could implement that reform. Host weve been talking with university of arizona professor the imperfect primary now on book tv, Jesse Peterson discuss it in teaching her youth. This program contains language