Icon, a National Hero of unimaginable proportion and a legend whose name will live in history long after all here today have. Forgotten. Fate looked down kindly on us when she chose neil to be the first to venture to another world. To have the opportunity to look back from space at the beauty of our own. It could have been another. Ow it wasnt. It wasnt for a reason. No one, no one, but no one could have accepted the responsibility of his remarkable accomplishment with more dignity and more grace than Neil Armstrong. He embodied all that is good and all that is great about america. More from the Memorial Service for Neil Armstrong thanksgiving day on cspan at 10 oom eastern and just before 11 30, a behind the scenes look at life as a teenager in the white house with susan ford baal and Lyndon Johnson rob, and after one, how Scientists Use game skills and theories to solve world problems. A conversation with president obamas biographers after his reelection. Hear from journalists ron suskind, author of the confidence men wall street, washington, and the education of a president. The atlantic, Aspen Institute, and the newseum hosted the forum. We have one titled why did he win and why did he lose . It was about obama, and now the title is how did he win . We have three authors of excellent books about president obama, john alter, ron suskind, and draifd maraniss who will be interviewedded by a great biographer, and my former editor, walter isakson, and asked the question what is he really like . And where is the profile . Yeah. Its only laptop. Ill get it to you after this is over. Walter, thank you. Margaret, thank you, thank you, all, great to be here. [applause] david, for those who cant figure out which is wish, david, jonathan, and thats ron. The next book in fact, starting in the middle with john. Talking about i can say your title; right . Well, it would be the first time, but thats all right. Breaking news here. Those who like the fall can,s things fall apart, his book is the center holds which is about this election. What is it in your first book about obama that made you cast him as a centrist . Well, i always thought he was a pragmatist, and pretty much his overall approach to issues as an Illinois State senator, in the u. S. Senator, and when you read the audacity of hope, his book about his alltogether brief senate career. Its clear hes not an ideolog. I i always thought that, you know, the idea of him as a socialist or whatever was just a smear. How did he get painted that way, or was there an element of truth to it . This is quite a bit about what the next book is about margaret talked bow the smear, there was a concerted effort started even before he became president , but really accelerated in 2009 to destroy him politically for the purposes of regaining power, and so it was not a conspiracy, but there were a lot of people who had, you know, a similar interest in trying to paint him as something that he was not. I mean, we all know about the whole Birther Movement and everything. One of the amazing parts about that is that how far it moved into the mainstream where you could hear nonsense on the floor of the congress or from board rooms. I mean, if you stop were so used to it, we dont stop to think about how completely insane it is. What would have had to happen for him to have been born in kenya. He would have had clairvoyant con con spir resists to ensure he was born here no honolulu. At a certain point i want to get to a theory i have about the media which ill try out on you. People like Mitch Mcconnell said, well, you know, im not i dont know anything about where he was born. I dont have anything to tell you about that. I mean, come on, cant you say he was born what were you about to say . No, just kidding. I have a whole riff on that. Sure, its better. Its not just the newspapers, but the Naturalization Service tracking obamas father that period, every week, wanting to kick him out of the country, and if he left, he would have never got back in, and the hospital, where obama was born, that week a journalist took one of the famous doctors there out for lunch and asked, well, what interesting happened in your life this week, and she said, well, stanley had a baby. Stanley is the mothers name. Its not every week that stanley has a baby. Before i get to ron, the, you know, you all just opened up a discussion about sort of the conspirator echo chamber on the far right blogosphere and everything else. I have a new theory. I used to think that, talk radio, and some elements of, you know, fox or whatever it may be, were really helping the Republican Party and now i think it led the party to have some real troubles, and hurt them more than helped. I no, i think thats absolutely right, and were seeing that much more clearly now with efforts to take power failed. If romney won, we wouldnt be saying this, but they were living in a sealed universe where before the election, you had, again, not just romney partsons, but those watching too much fox, should be held accountable, george lill, michael barone, dick morris is trey here . Wrote a good piece john martin wrote a piece in politico, and in 1972, pauline living in manhattan, a great film critic how could nixon i only know one person who voted for him and carried every state but massachusetts. I think Something Like that, less extreme version because obama didnt do as well as nix nixon, but Something Like that was going on with serious people. I had a bet with a conservative radio talk show host who bought me dinner in new york, that he nows owes me, that romney would win with more than 330 votes. Ron, to get back to the main subject of what we learned about obama, one of more thesis in confidence men, and then an oped piece five or six days ago is that obama did not mobilize his awemy of supporters well enough in the first term in order to truly be who he was. Can you explain that . Well, it was an area of some regret, certainly looking back by folks in the white house, and some was, as we say, uncharted territory. There is a gap between the election and governance. We all know about that, but having said that, they certainly did not apply a great deal of energy or strategy to how to mobilize obamas army from 2008. It was quite a crowd r crowd, and it was muscular and ready, sort of where do we go . You look at the 2 Million People leaping and cheering in the mall in 8 degrees. They were looking for direction for the model. We see that everywhere. Of course, whats interesting is you see that cropping up in the summer, in the middle of health care, the tea party rises from the loins so to speak from the Republican Party, ahijacked that debate. The administration lost control of it, wrestle it back after scott brown and after they lost their majority in january the following year, but then, of course, occupy wall street adds welcoming up as well coming up. Obama keeps them at arms length for the most part. I think the thinking, and i hear this from progressive activists over the last few days is a bit of a whats that line, lbj, you know, says to various leaders of his day, make me do it. You know, Marlin Martin luther king and others, make me do it. People are getting a system that obama and the signaling system of america, there is a need, even after obamas done, after a new election, theres a sense of a new start is make him arise in new ways to the challenge of the moment. Thats an interestst interesting moment, looking back in 2009, thinking clearly with a hard eye about maybe what he might have done and now having a fresh hundred days to capitalize on. Do you agree with john that hes essentially a pragmatist . I do. I do think hes a pragmatist. Its interesting. I think that hes a guy who, in my reporting, you find him sending up trial balloons in meetings, you know, and they tend to be, in many cases, property left, your activist, rooseveltstyle things, which john is an expert on, the financial change, transaction taxes, for example, in meetings saying i like this idea. Theres ways to do taxes, tamp down wild frothy speculated trade, and rebalance the system out of whack, but hes pushed back by summers or geithner or others and sometimes hes with summers, stimes with geithner, but he moves towards pragmatism. Some say towards caution rather than activism that some folks hoped for, certainly on the left. Having said that, the mans evolving. We cant help ourselves. We all evolve. I think the big question is how this man, will evolve has evolved, and how that expresses itself now that he has a refreshman date. Thats the big question. Whats the big answer . Well, im waiting i have to say. Some answers, i think, ive gotten over the last year. I think hes gotten better at upping the dynamics of understanding the dynamics of president ial power, how to use the bully pulpit, how to get people in sympathetic communities, box in his opponents, look at the payroll tax drama of february of this year. They handled that well, and the republicans, in december of 2010, were on fire, and by february of 2011, 140 billion of stimulus, a good sign was president learning that its not arguments that bring opponents over. They will not budge. Box them in, use the power of the presidency. The question is has he built a new set of skills and tools that hell use, and i think were going to see in the next couple months. Its a big time for him. David, both in your book and in a recent oped piece, you asked the question what really drives them . What is the is that right give us a i mean, that seems to be the theme of the book. What is driving this guy, and its a bit of an open question. What do you think you are seeing now as the driving motivations . Well, i wrote about this last week in terms of the second term, and i think the drive now is greatness. I think he has the opportunity for that. That doesnt mean hell reach it, but, you know, even as the second term often creates unexpected problems and a lame duck atmosphere that can devolve, couldnt have had the chance of greatness without the second term, and i think that as you watched him in the first term, as ron and john captured, he was in a learning process. Theres many times in that period where his progressive supporters in particular were frustrated by him wondering why is he not clarifying things, why not attacking in a more clear way, and he was learning during that whole period, and he was also trying to find out where the traps were. The essential lesson i drew from the life is that in every step along the way, hes been trying to figure out where the traps are and how to get around them, whether its the trap of being born in hawaii, a Paradise Island so far from power, another biracial, negotiating his way in terms of race in the world, the trap the chicago poll sicks as john and the family know well can get you trapped. Every point along the way, finding the traps, and in the white house, it was tougher, but thats what he was trying to do. Theres a learning process where hes Getting Better at that part of it. When you say trying to learn what the traps are, that gives you an innate caution, and you said, though, hes going to strive were greatness no, not at all because hes looking at the traps that they are not just for survival. Hes not just looking to survive which is what bill clintons second term, in essence, was about. The traps that can keep him from getting to the point of bringing everything together in a bigger package. The best metaphor i heard the way his mind works came from his best friend, marty, who runs a Parking Company in chicago, and he said that obama has what he described as a rubix cube in his brain, constantly working the rubix cube to get the right combination to move him forward, and then trying to think always thinking a few steps ahead. If i do this, theyll do that, then maybe i can do this or that, and if i did a rather than b, theyll do chiropractic, and try theyll do c, and always thinking ahead, not to get caught up in the 24 7 news cycle. He may have overcompensated on that because as they said in the godfather this is the business we chose. He wanted to be in a different, longer term business, and he didnt make enough concessions in the first term, the day by day noise of washington. Yeah, i think they are all dancing around a point. You mentioned, walter, is i call it his pregame aptitude. He plays the game before the players take the feel. Saying were winning 1613 with a field goal, and hes often right. The trick is when youre president , movements happening quickly, it create a kind of a kind of, i dont know, renaissance, a accept step back quality of what you miss with the dinism of the presidency in front of you. When the president acts, everything changed. Right, the rubix cube even changes. Its a new cube. Right. I think test learning, hard lessons, but good lessons that sometimes just acting i act, i altered the landscape, and as i do that, im ahead of the pack, and, david, you talk about striving for greatness. To do that, youve done one thing, which is health care, but hes going to need to strive for greatness and reorganize the rubix cube, what do you think it would be . Going back to health care, i dont think it helps him become great unless he reelected and its enacted. Frank robertson. Right. Its really in the second term that becomes clear what it needs in all its senses. Beyond that, i think that, these are the cliches of the moment. My pal thinks its climate change, and i think thats perhaps certainly, you know, among the most important things facing the world. I can tell you dont think so, wont be his next wing not the next thing, but the last two years of the presidency could be that. Whats the next thing . I think its some tomorrow of the quoteonquote grand bargain and immigration reform. They are not things youll remember 25 years from now necessarily, but thats yeah, john, go ahead. I was just going to say id be interested in what these guys think, but i think theres a chance he might go back to where he started. I was very taken, as im sure many of you were, the video of him at the chicago headquarters on the day after the election, and he said, quote, coming full circle, talking about coming full circle in terms of back to the grassroots organizing he started out of columbia and wanted to do something larger than his own selfinterest, but the substance of what he was doing was, you know, trying to help very poor people on the southside of chicago, and i think he has a whole Community College piece which is not that sexy of an issue, but i think he really, deeply believes that if you dont go to college, have at least two years of college, youre screwed in america, and so you might see a whole new set of education initiatives, i heard talk there about early childhood, go very hard on that. Well, the big narrative, which i think sometimes is every kid in america deserves a decent shot. Right. That could be the narrative to put him in. Really focus in on that and ask, all right, how do we make that happen . It does come back again and again to, you know, to education and to other interventions among, you know, what james wilson called the truly disadvantaged. Lets declare a ban on the use of the word narrative you were going to Say Something about narrative. Well, i have nothing to say then. Hey, im a narrative writer. Its great, we are, but that is so misusedded now. Obama is a challenge to guys like us because hes a writerly guy, has great jobs, sit with him, a good as a writer as youll get in a president , certainly, in my lifetime, and its interesting when you see that obama narrator, you see him talk, you feel floating up on the ceiling, looking at a character named barack obama and how hes doing, but hes also the main actor. That combination is part of the architecture as david wrote in the book, and but, you know, i think hes learned that a president is about action. He is a man of action. Hell speak and act, and other people will have to write the narrative. I think its part of the, again, this evolution of the man. Another thing that when you look at the first term and now, you know, to be blunt about it, he had a just a host of disasters from the bush era and some of them building from even before that that just hit him like a tsunami from eight sides, and its interesting because now hes passed at least a lot of hes got a cleaner slate than four years ago with an economy. Start building the sub structure to show actual progress. A debate in the white house is, like, its a long term thing, health care, for instance, but showing results any time soon to people in need. Well, that was the long term game. Of course, the stimulus was the short term game, but, still, americans dont feel the effects. Some of it is marketing, some of it is real, of a lot of what obamas done. I think the key now is, because of the reelection, hell actually have time for americans just to go, well, i feel a little better, and its substantive, its real. My Health Insurance that was true of clinton, and david said in the conversation that clinton adopt seize the reigns of a didnt seize the reigns of a second term. Seized Something Else instead. [laughter] [applause] that was good. The whole year before wasting 1997 before the scandal broke will. Welfare reform asking dave because were in biography here. Im fascinated by them figuring out who they were in childhood. You have the biography of them not inventing themselves, thats a cliche too, but figuring out who they were, compare and contrast. Yeah, well, you think about the two men, both out of preventional places, arkansas and hawaii, grew up without knowing their fathers in somewhat dysfunctional family, and they both got to the presidency, and they got there in completely different ways. Bill clinton, essentially, his whole philosophy of life was just keep going forward. Reinvent yourself every day, forgive yourself, forgive the world, keep going, and just became an incredible survivor because of that. He, you know, that got him to the white house, got him in the trouble in the white house because he had not resolved a lot of things, got him in trouble in the white house, and now hes the most popular guy in the world. Watch out, Something Else barack obama, really, from the time he left honolulu at age 18 to go to college, until the time he went to harvard law school, nine years, intensely tried to resolve the contradictions life th