A lost world war ii bomber crew. It features author and journalist gregg jones. This is a unique fellowship that allows an experienced and talented writer to spend a fall semester at the library of congress and a Spring Semester at the university of nevada las vegas to work on an ambitious writing project. Greggs project is ambitious and he has spent a quarter of a century reconstructing the lives and times of 10 airmen aboard the liberator which disappeared over austria on october 1, 1943. As you will hear gregg has a , personal connection to the story. He has traced the lines of the fallen servicemen, situated them within the larger story of combat deaths in europe, and reflect it on his own personal journeys to the village in southern austria where the men disappeared. This is the research you will hear about today and which will inform his forthcoming book about the subject. He has been a Foreign Correspondent and investigative journalist for more than 30 years. He is the author of honor in the dust, an editors choice of the new yorks time sunday book review. Last stand at caisson and red revolution, which was a finalist for the pulitzer prize. Hes been a staff writer for the and he hass times, covered the philippines for the washington post, and the guardian. He reported from pakistan following 9 11. He has traveled to afghanistan to cover the search for osama bin laden, and tora bora. He is currently be black the Black Mountain fellow working on his fourth book about the multigeneral legacy of a lost world war ii bomber crew. We decided to structure todays today as a conversation. I will start off with the first question and gregg will take it from there. So, welcome sir. Thank you, sir. Has a veryry personal connection for you. Lets talk about what that personal connection is and how you came to be aware of this episode with these 10 men. Thanks very much, jason. There are several people i want to thank. I want to take the kluge center, bob patrick, megan harris. They do great work to preserve the stories of our nations veterans. Megan has been very helpful in my research. Thanks very much. Also, the kluge center has been my home for the last three plus months. This is really an extraordinary place. As jason noted, i come for me from the journal is inside of the world from the journalism side of the world and that tends to be a shabbier side of the street. So being able to walk in this every dayent building for the last three months has been a sublime pleasure. And it has been made an even greater pleasure by the environment that has been created here at the kluge center. Lount to thank robert, mary. The staff, really, top to bottom, has just made this a marvelous place to do good work. Kluge want to thank the anter intern who has been integral part of my research. And i want to thank the scholars and the fellows with whom ive shared this space the last few months. Really amazing, warm, inspiring, intimidatingly smart. Incredibly Generous Group of people. I will never forget you all. One quick correction. As much as i wish that my book red revolution has been a finalist for the pulitzer prize, it was my journalism work that was a finalist, but i will certainly take that. [laughter] gregg jason, the question is and im going to try to i have some images that i want to share. And this may not be entirely seamless, but i think worth these are worth sharing. The personalis connection and how this has been woven into my life. I grew up with looking at this image, this photograph that you see there. Muchther kept a small and less crisp print of this on her bedroom dresser when i was growing up. My earliest memory of this was, probably i was 12 or 13. I remember looking at it and asking her about it. My mother didnt have a lot of. Acts about this photograph she did know that her brother is in this photograph. He is the man at the lower lefthand corner. His name is l. H. White. He was a Technical Sergeant and the Radio Operator on this bomber crew. She knew that the crew had disappeared over austria during a mission on october 1, 1943. Beyond that, she didnt know a lot. There were questions as to whether or not they had been found, whether any of the other men had been found, but there was one other twist to it. There was a survivor. My mother did not know much about him, but that obviously begged the question of how was there one survivor and how was it the other men were not found or did not come back . Was reallyotograph an entry point for me. I was already very interested in history and curious, reading a lot of history. That really brought world war ii alive for me, but there was also was obviously tinged with sadness and mystery. The other episode that really started me on this journey was about when i was 15 years old. My mother had mentioned that she had a box of my uncles personal effects. This box had been left to my grandfather a man by the name of , grandfather, a man by the name of floyd white. When he passed away in 1967, he left that box to my mother. I found it in the back of my mothers closet. I took it out to my room. I remember it was a winter night. I sat on the floor with this box, i took each item out piece by piece. There was a leather flight suit, a cap, jacket, pants, boots, and gloves. There was a camera, binoculars, a radio repair manual. A sheaf of official correspondence, letters that the War Department and the Army Air Forces had written to my father,her, to l. H. s and there was a sevare box cigar box inside that larger box. Inside that were several letters and they were the final letters that my uncle l. H. Had written home to his father. And there were letters that my grandfather had written to l. H. Those letters each had been stamped return to sender, missing in action. They had been returned and had never been opened. They had been returned and had never been opened. So, i opened those letters and read them. And there was nothing especially profound that my grandfather not an educated man. Prosaic descriptions of, he was a small farmer and a livestock trader. So, talking about the fall harvest and what was going on with my mother and her next oldest sister. They were the two youngest children at home. Then the final letter that he wrote that at this point he had received the missing in action telegram which arrived a month after the crew disappeared. He was trying to be upbeat. But at the same time there was this anguish, despair and concern that it just had a remarkable effect. And i just really i think was gripped with this saga. And even as a 15yearold, it was an experience ill never forget and started me on this journey. Host as a high school senior, you wrote a novella about this mission. Mr. Jones right. When i was a 10th grader, i had a history fair project on the crew. These men were assigned to a b24 liberator group. It was part of the 8th air force, the 93rd bomb group part of the secondary division which was within the 8t air force. But the b24 liberators were the utility players of the 8th air force. They were based in england but were sent to north africa on temporary duty on three occasions in 1942 and 1943. And so, the crew had actually flown the famous low Level Mission of august 1, 1943. They were flying through airbases around benghazi, libya, in the desert. I actually have, this is this would have been what it looks like for the crew. They literally were flying in at smokestack level on this raid. And it was an extraordinary casualty rate. 177 aircraft took off from north africa and about 1 3 didnt return. So i did this project that featured the crew and told the story of the rate. Two years later as a senior in high school, i tried to, i wrote a fictionalized account of what had happened, what i imagined had happened to the crew. So, that was really my first attempt to try to start understanding and telling the story. Host then that led to a larger investigation and how did that unfold . Mr. Jones i had become a journalist. My love of history is what led me into journalism. I had been a foreign, freelance Foreign Correspondent in Southeast Asia and mexico. Had come back from six years overseas. In early 1990 i was visiting my parents in southeast missouri. And i went to my mothers closet and i got that box, my uncles personal effects out. Just like that night it was 15 years after the night i had first gone through it. So, i went through this box item by item. And i was taking notes this time, and going through the documents. And there, the documents were documents like this. This was a letter the squadron commander, a much beloved man by the name of joseph tate had written my grandfather in december, 1943. The crew had been missing six weeks at that point. Two days after joseph tate wrote this letter, he disappeared and was shot down over germany. It says you have been notified your site was missing in action on october, 1943. Other than this, we have received no further official information. If we do, you can be sure we will not fail to notify you immediately within the bounds of censorship. First paragraph. So, in this box that there were letters like this but there really, again, there was such a derth of details. But one document that was in there in addition to this was a list of addresses and i think we may be locked up. Hopefully that will come. But the 1943 addresses. What they would do was they would list all the crew members, list next of kin and send that to the family so the families could correspond with one another, try to keep each other spirits up in the absence of information. And so, this list had been circulated to all the families, and they began corresponding with one another. They had stayed in close contact for a number of years. Then parents died in many cases and families drifted apart. But i found this. And i decided that i would try to. Track down the families so, i started writing the hometown newspapers. This was still the internet and email, widespread access was still a few years away. Which dates me. But your best way to found somebody was to write the newspaper. I wrote to the editor. Describes the crew that went down over austria in october 1, 1943. Im looking for the air men from this hometown. So, i wrote all the hometown newspapers. The gunner and Flight Engineer was from los angeles. I noticed his name was armenian. I figured it would be hard to find somebody by writing the newspaper in los angeles. I wrote the Armenian Orthodox Church publications. And started filing freedom of information act requests with the pentagon with the National Personnel records center. And i also started writing newspapers in austria. At the same time, i joined a group of veterans as an associate member. I joined the Second Air Division association. And got the membership list and started sending out hundreds of letters to men who had flown with the 93rd, the 44th and the 389 were the three groups flying on these missions on the temporary duty and north africa. And so, all these letters started to arrive. Host you actually got letters back. Mr. Jones within days, i started hearing from the first family members. And just rapidly and exponentially, my knowledge of who these men were and their time in combat was really greatly enhanced. And there is just to ill show you a couple of photographs here. These were the guys in training. So, i started to learn more about i wanted to understand what they went through, how they became a crew. I went to, i started going to the national archives. This was in the days when world war ii records were downtown and that suitland, maryland. Before the magnificent College Park Facility was opened. So, i was pulling sortie reports. I was finding everything i could to piece together. I also went to the air force Historical Resource center at Maxwell Air Force base in alabama. Learned a lot about the training and the extraordinary pressure there was to turn out bomber crews. Really astonishing fact that there were 15,000 deaths in training accidents, airmen during world war ii. 15,000 in the u. S. So,that number astonished me. But when i read these documents i started to understand why they had green pilots. A shortage of 100 octane aviation fuel. Host lets talk about the crew. Who were these guys, where were they from . Tell us more. Mr. Jones it was a cross section. If you set aside segregation so they all were white or hispanic. And but really covered the gamut of city boys and country boys that there was the son of a wealthy new york city manhattan businessman who had gone to columbia university. The father had. And there were a number of immigrants in the group that my uncle was in the back, the far right. Next to him is jack casparian, the son of armenian immigrants. Phil bedwell was from marion, indiana. The other two men were on the crew, for there was a lot of churn before they went overseas. They, men going awol. And having a bit too much to drink and things like that. And so, sometimes they were here and then they were gone. This is the plane i did want to mention this. Something that threw me from that photo. You made it the the name was war of avion on the plane. That was not the plane that was not the plane they were flying. I was puzzled for a long time why they posed in front of that. That was known as an assembly ship. A worn out aircraft. That would take off and then would start rotating and would become the rallying point for the other aircraft that would take off on a mission. So, usually they would be painted garish colors and things. So they could be distinguished. The other planes would take off and fall into formation. My uncles crew, the pilot was William Stein, the son of, lithuanian immigrantsa Brown University economics graduate. Ill point him out when i shift over to the crew photo, but this will tell you something about this aircraft. They inherit an aircraft called jerks natural. This is a beautiful photograph taken in england. The name is distinctive and im sure you are scratching your head as to how it got this odd sounding name. The jerk was the nickname for the pilot. This was a reference to a soda jerk, which soda shops were popular at the time. To dispense carbonated water you had this lever would jerk and create carbonated drinks. And shakes and things like that. And so, john was the pilot who, the first pilot in this aircraft. His nickname was the jerk. The tail number was 23711. 4123711. In dice games, which were popular with men in the service, 711 was a very fortuitous roll. Hence jerks natural. This was the aircraft my uncle crew was the first wave of replacement crews that have gone to england in may of 1943. The plane had seen a lot of action by that time. Host one quick anecdote or side fact. Goes crews was part was part of the first crews that had gone there. Quick anecdote or side fact. You had mentioned when we talked last week that was it, treadwell, one of the guys was quite a character . Clowning around . Mr. Jones let me try to find those photographs. Phil bedwell. Bear with me while i phil was in the photographs. He was this marvelous character. He was from indiana. He wore his flight cap. Turned the bill up and painted hoosier on the cap. He was the life of the party. He looked to play drums. He had a sister. I have to mention her, barbara, who is still alive, around 90 years of age. Barbara has been an extraordinary partner in t his. One of the first people to get in touch. They had this magnificent collection of photographs that barbara and phils mother, mother and father, grant and ava bedwell in this corn fed, indiana small city of marion. Eva was known by the nickname of maude. She doted on phil. Mischievous but very thoughtful and sensitive and sweet guy. But always doing wacky things. But they had all these photographs and a lot of letters and things that just aided me in my search. Host lets talk about the context in which this is happening which is an important part of your project. 1943. There is discussion about what the strategy for the air campaign should be in europe. Questions of daylight bombings and the risk associated with that. European strategies versus american strategies. How did that factor in . Mr. Jones absolutely. And this is something i want to scroll back to. I have a photograph of henry arnold the air force commander in chief on the right. Thats ira acre on the left who commanded the 8th air force from december 1942 to december 1943. Aker was a longtime subordinate and coauthored a couple books before the war and military aviation. The world war ii, for the Armyair Forces was seen as this huge opportunity to finally prove they were worthy of being an independent service, a service that could escape the tyranny of the navy and the army, which always gave them short shrift in budgeting times. So, in the 1920s and 1930s, all these disciples of billy mitchell, who was the father of american air power, who emerged from world war i and started to develop the doctrine of calming as a decisive force and warfare. This doctrine of daylight bombing immersed in the 1930s. Arnold became a proponent of it. Aker and several other of their associates. They were collectively known, the men who had drafted this, the bomber mafia. And so, they wanted to prove that daylight bombing would work. The british when the americans enter the war warned hap arnold, that you cannot do it. British had tried a time bombing and gone to nighttime bombing, which was essentially a fly over a city and drop your bombs. The british could justified by saying you had factory workers there. Therefore, were hitting a military target. In theory, the american daylight precision bombing would be more accurate and would be more humane. There was also some parochial interests that come into play. That fascinated me because it gets into the exercise, the power. And not just the convictions of the bomber mafia that this could be done but also the sense this is our. Opportunity to create an independent air force arnold was determined to keep pushing deeper raids into europe in 1943, into germany. Even though they did not have really the Critical Mass in terms of numbers of bombers that were needed at that time. And one of the great failings is they had not developed longrange fighter escorts to escort the bombers into germany. Arnold and the bomber mafia had a saying the bomber will always get through. They were convinced that mass bombers at that point, 10 machine guns on each aircraft, could fend off any german fighters. The germans as any good military force would, changed tactics and started bringing down large number