Bit differently this time. Well start with pat, pat, good morning. Im curious to know in your institution in burglar, and all institutions across the country, the ratio of people in the classrooms to other employees, by administrators, researchers, whatever. And how that has changed over time and what percentage of the tuition costs will be paid. Actually its to pay the salary of nonteaching employees of the university. So the university of michigan has about 3,000 fulltime tenure scre stream faculty that teach our students. We have clinical faculty that help train future physicians and residents and interns in our hospitals. We probably have on the order of 2,000 or so of teaching faculty. The total number of employees of the university is approaching 40,000. We have a very Large Health Care system, were a major provider of Health Health care in the state. If you put aside the Health Care System, we probably have two or three fold the number of employees providing all the Services Necessary to run a residential campus. We have the health services, so because this is a residential community, it requires a lot more than just a professor standing up in the classrooms, i think a lot of the learning that goes on at the university of michigan, also throughout residential Higher Education, occurs outside the classroom, environments where students can participate in groups and Student Activities and can learn by others and learn by doing. The fraction of people that look at like me, like president s and Vice President s, although were very visible, we make up only a handful of the number of employees at the university and only a modest fraction of salary commitment. Were in a very people oriented business. And we showed a stat just now talking a little bit about different expenses from the university of michigan, one of those expenditures in 2013, michigan spent 1. 3 million on research efforts. Thats one of the things that attracted me to the university of michigan. Its one of the Top Research Institutions in the country if not the world. Of that 1. 3 billion, almost a billion of that comes from outside sources. It comes from foundations and the federal government. Our generous donors really is key to the future economy of our country, im really proud of it. Phone lines for students, parents, educators and michigan residents in this last segment of todays washington journal. Mike is in bouie, maryland. Mike. I had a question concerns the comments earlier about affordability. It seems interesting to me that we can talk about affordability when i just heard that the tuition for out of state is at 40,000, and this is a question that goes beyond the university of michigan, of course, just the education system, and public universities, but i recently read an article where the Median Income of College Graduates at the highest level was somewhere near 60,000. And so if you have a student paying 4 40,000 a year for an education that goes upward about 300,000, when you total all expenses, i would say that thats pretty expensive, when you compare that also to the me Median Income of an average family in this nation. I have to add, how is it that we can consider that affordable to the average american . I think thats a very important question, and i think the way we make it as affordable as possible. For example for an instate student, if u youre Family Income is less than around 60,000 a year, the out of pocket costs are almost zero. Between scholarships, work study jobs, summer earning expectations and a modest amount of loans, we have managed to make it so that students from families of pretty typical income can afford to get this spectacular education. And although the income levels that you cite may be National Averages, michigan is a spectacular university, employers are queued up to employ our graduates. The significant number of them become enormously successful, so once again, i think its a good investment. Its more of a challenge for out of state students because to the tuition is higher, and isles higher because theyre not receiving any stubsidies from Te University of one thing were doing now in our new campaign, our fundraising cam pain, is we have set a goal of 1 billion to raise for supporting scholarships, needbased aid and support for graduate fellowships to try to work on this affordability problem. But i share with you the notion that if were not successful making a College Education affordable, based on merit, based on willingness to work hard, then the future of our country is in trouble. Michigan had one of the largest endowments at 4 million. Is there any thought about using this endowment to help with the affordability problem . Sure, we already do, a significant amount of that endowment is supporting our Financial Aid system, thats where a lot of the money comes from. And were trying to raise additional endowment. Were just not there yet financially. Phowhat their lifetime needs will be. Were also educating citizens, so one of my goals as an educator, is to graduate students that are prepared to actively engage as good citizens and as leaders in their community. As an engineer, you have to know more than engineering, you have to be able to communicate clearly, i think you should be able to write well, you should have cultural sensitivity, you should be educated to lead and be a professional that can attain a series of good jobs throughout a lifetime. And thats what we really continuously endeavor to do. We have the phone lines open, if you have a question about Higher Education, you can talk to mark schlissell, the president of education at the university of michigan. Teresa, good morning. Caller thank you so much for taking my call and thank you to csp cspan. I just want to say, today, i think college is not affordable for american families. When you see the numbers, like they were just showing for out of state students. 50,000 . Thats just the initial costs, thats not for the day to day expenses that the students have, and eventually if they get through college, theyre lucky if they can do it in four years, thats the cost of a house, most families if they can afford a 200,000 home, get a 30year commitment as far as a mortgage payment. And look at the interest you have to pay over 40 years for that house. Now were putting our students in a situation where thats what they need to get through college. Its just a difficult situation. And a part of this equation are the Interest Rates, when these students try to pay these loans back, it could be 500, plus the actual loan itself, again, as a country, its just crazy to me what were charging kids for college. I dont know why we cant figure out a better system to educate our kids. Dr. Schlissell . Yes, teresa, those are all excellent points and as i have said, i agree with you, that there is an affordability problem confronting all of Higher Education. The fraction of students that actually pay 50,000 and 200,000 over four years, to attend the university of michigan is less than half. So as i mentioned earlier, we are need blind in state, and were attempting for out of state students to use Financial Aid and work study jobs and loans in combination to allow students from any background to attend the university. I think to the Biggest Challenges are rare at the borders of our Financial Aid formulas, where you make enough money where you dont qualify for tremendous amounts of support and it really is a struggle and i think families do have to make a conscious decision on value. I was the oldest of four kids from a very middle class working family and my parents sent me to a privaTe University. I took out a combination of loans, scholarships, i worked during school, i worked in the summertime, i graduated with debt. And in hindsight i would do it all over again in a heart beat. Its enormously challenging, we do our best to help. I appreciate that you pointed out that this is a national problem. I think it would be a wonderful thing to provoke a National Discussion of how the public as a whole, this is a common goal for our society. I think we have to tie the ability to take on debt to student outcomes. We have to take a look at make sure that this debt is being taken on by students that are going to graduate, and are going to graduate with zegs that will help them be employable or pursue their future ambitions and not one into trouble and never complete. I think we need to cap the amount of Student Loans you might expect a stunl to take on. I think one thing that people forget, half of the students here at the university of michigan graduate with no loans, so the data youre quoting is for students who take out loans, your quoting averages, and for instead students, the students that do take out loans, its about 25,000 for out of state debt. For out of state students, its about 35,000 for four years of attendance. Carol said, my daughter received her phd from the university of michigan and received a job immediately. Ann arbor is lovely and faculty great and always helpful. Bernies waiting on our line for parents, bernie is in columbus, ohio, good morning. Caller good morning. Sir, would you havhat you have to steal. If you subsidize babies, you where have the colleges worked at holding down the costs. Their prices have gone way past the rate of inflation for the last ten years. The government keeps subsidizing the loans, you keep raising your prices, the excuse is usually given is that we have to keep up with the other colleges, theyre taking our professorsor theyre taking our talent. Just because theyre stealing, doesnt mean you have to steal. Dr. Schlissell . There isnt really incredibly much new to say, i understand the frustration that people feel when they look at a cost of education that sounds out of reach. I think there is an issue that we have to do our very best to constrain the cost of higher ed, and in particular, to use Financial Aid and judicious amounts of debt to make sure that students can attend. I really dont accept the argument that the cost, at least here in michigan has grown dramatically beyond the rate of inflation. If you look hard at the data over the last decade, the university by cutting costs has managed to mitigate a lot of the consequences of diminished state support, and the rate of increase in tuition, roughly parallels the rate of decrease in state support. We are in a very people intensive business, there are gains to be made by instituting technology that replaces a teacher, or a teacher manages a class discussion, but we havent discovered those yet. I dont think well be done until our universities look like the society that theyre serving and that students can come to School Without mortgaging their future and their familys future. So we have to keep working on this. Dr. Schlissell, considering for a moment only the sciences, what do you consider as important growth areas over the next ten to 30 years, and then adding in go blue. Thanks for the go blue part. Thats reassuring, the sciences fuel discovery. We have got an enormous and fantastic academic medical cent center, that includes a hospital and medical school, but also schools of nursing and pharmacy and public health. Where the potential of the university to affect thats a tremendous area for furl investment and growth that will have a real and obvious upside for society. We have an absolutely spectacular school of engineering, that educates students at the engineering, at a masters and doctoral level, we have an Automotive Research center, other efforts that really fuel the local economy. A biotech industry, a great bioengineering department. Not just by training students, but by aproducing new knowledge that spurs new industries. Lou is a parent, good morning. Caller good morning. Just a comment, my son goes to a local university in washington, d. C. Metro area. And hes a senior and what i have noticed about his classes over the years is that his major is economics. But i have noticed that a number of his classes are just pure fluff. Im not just talking about a broad based education, where you take a literature class or take a class in something you normally would not take to round you out. Im talking about classes that are pure fluff, theyre just filler. And im shocked that there arent more substantive classes. Sometimes when i talk to my son, it seems like, im not really working that hard at this particular subject, hes fulfilling the major, but there arent enough substantive classes. So i would like to talk about the requirements for a bachelors, maybe engineering particularly, or maybe, you know, premed, where theres very structured classes, and theres not a whole lot of fluff. But i just think in a lot of other areas, theres not theres a large percentage thats not substantive, and can be eliminated, i appreciate hearing your comments. Dr. Schlissell on fluff. Thank you very much, i never thought i would be able to make a definitive comment on fluff. A lot of the universities do teach very pragmatic practical things where you can see an obvious connection between what a student is studying and their first job or where they want to go on to graduate school. A lot of our class taking an english class, learning how to read an appreciate literature, u how to write well, how to communicate clearly, taking a Foreign Language class, taking and and and an throw pollee glass. There are hard stills that people need to learn. What people call fluff often turns out to be enormously impactful. And im not going to admit to any fluff at the university. But we do educate our students both broadly and specifically. Im a University President , i studied biochemistry as an undergrad, i studied medicine and biochemistry as a medical student and as a doctoral student. But as an undergrad i took classes in religion and history and bopolitics and government a music and all those things it turns outs have affected how i live my life and its also affecting how i look at the leadership of a Great University. I think we have to educate broadly and thats not fluff and we also have a responsibility to educate with specificity. Allan is on our line with educators. Good morning. Caller i appreciate you taking my call. My question goes backs to the Student Loans that are funding the nations universities. I just want to point out the fact, and hopefully youre aware of this. Student loans are the only types of loans to be specifically vacated of the most fundamental student protections that exist forever other type of loan, this is bankruptcy protections, this is statutes of limitations, and other protections that people take for granted and they assume are in place for their Student Loans when they sign for them. I have been looking at this for over a decade. I have not heard one University President say anything about this very unique exemption and to say nothing about the structurally predatory behaviors that this enables. So if i could just get your comments, i i would appreciate it. What do you teach . Caller im actually in charge of a group called student loan. Org, i give talks across the country at colleges and universities. Dr. Schlissell . Those are excellent points. I have to educate myself more because im not expert personally in the laws and practices that govern Student Loans, but i think this is a really interesting area for universities to organize and for our government to act. Ill speak to our Government Relations people, ill speak to our student loan folks, so i understand this better, particularly in the state of michigan, we have caps on the amount of debt that we allow the students to take on under the universitys auspices, the practices that youre talking about are important and i think i need to understand them better. Frank is a student, good morning. Caller good morning, i have a question or a comment about it seems like the elephant in the room that has not been addressed and as costs rise, in the educational system, the costs are not evenly spread. The universities are hiring more and more adjuncts, as a grad student, im right now writing my thesis, i expect to finish it next month. But every not one fulltime professor, and obviously i dont want to mention the school. But i am here in central florida. So you can pick the schools. But nonetheless, every professor was anned a jujts. They do receive pen uys on the dollar, many of the professors have secondary or two or three jobs outside of the Academic Field to make ends meet, but still the universitys costs are going up exponentially. U how do you justify that . What you eere pointing out certainly a national problem, its not an issue here at the university of michigan because we employ very few adjuncts and thinkre normally professionals that have degrees in law or they aisle come and teach a course for us because they love to teach, its not their real job. The problem youre pointing out is a real one across the breadth of the academy, but here at the university of michigan, its tenyear stream factuality members and professional lectures that affect our curriculum. I do applaud you, thats a real problem that deserves scrutiny, one university at a time and perhaps discussion more broadly. And as we are talking about spending by universities, can you comment on Athletic Department spending, do you think the spending is in line with the goals and the missions of the university . Sure, so, i think athletics certainly a major public universities have become bigger and bigger, through the years, with more attention from the public, more attention from the media, the size of the program has grown, not the number of students, but the dollars flowing through them, here at the uni