Minimum requirements if were looking at the high noncompliance rates of utilities, the problems with 56rdability, the problems with small customer bases that just some great emphasis needs to be paid to providing more funding for these disadvantaged and smaller communities. My home state of texas has a lot of money theyre putting into water problems as a result of droughts. Californias done the same thing. Each state runs it different. A lot of states put extra money in. Some states dont. But i think its good. G. A. O. s done a terrific job at looking at some of these issues and i would encourage them to continue to do so. Thank you. My last question for mr. For mayor keegan mr. Newman and mr. Sellman, can you just given us briefly your success on the state resolving fund versus the r. U. S. , or do you access that . Why dont we go with mr. Keegan first . Sure. We havent had very much success. Weve had some limitations due to the average income of ow community. Weve been told its been too high. And our average bill doesnt meet the minimum to qualify for the funding. Weve paid two separate Consulting Firms to search out funds for us and both reported the same thing. Thank you. Mr. Newman . Thank you, mr. Chairman. In my experience one of the issues with the srf as compared to Rural Development has been the paperwork is considered to be cumbersome. And the added administrative cost in applying often nullifies the low interest which in turn makes the srf an option of last resort, which i dont believe was the intended purpose. Mr. Sellman . Yes. Some of my systems we have used on srfs. Were drilling a well right now on one of the systems because it depends on what area youre in in the state. But we were having trouble through Rural Development getting a timely process to get money to drill this well and it was needed. The town of monticello. We got a state Revolving Fund grant for a sewer project right now we just completed. In our district, in our part of the state weve used it. And its helped. But the usda seems tore more of a grant. Some communities cant afford a loan and the grant helps them. My times expired and i know mr. Stewart wanted to answer but i want to go to mr. Tonkel whos recognized for five minutes. Thank you for calling this hearing and for inviting a witness from the 20th district of new york. Mayor keegan i appreciate you make the trip here today. Drinking Water Systems in the district i represent and i think every District Across the country are facing significant challenges as they work tone sure that everyone including people in small and Rural Communities have access to safe water. Thats why i introduced the aqua act last congress, to improve all of the tools epa currently has to assist these systems. I appreciate the work that my colleague mr. Harper from mississippi has done on these issues. I look forward to working with him to get at least some of these changes into law. Seems every week in my district theres at water main break. Treated water and the money weve invested is being wasted. So its dollars and water flowing out of those pipes. Mayor keegan, can you describe some of the issues you have had in your town with water main breaks and the obstacles you face . Preventing these ruptures . We dont really with the recent frost when we have a water main break it doesnt just pop up because the ground is so frozen. So we often dont know where the break is and we dont have the tools or equipment to locate the break. So we have to either call a Consulting Firm that could be 1,500 a day to come with special tools or call the new york Water Association. If theyre available theyll come. So thats its very difficult. We dont always know where the breaks are located. Thank you. And you know this is such a serious issue and one that will require more significant infrastructure financing including that investment in technology not just Technical Assistance. Mr. Gomez, g. A. O. Ha studied the range of Government Programs that provide assistance to rural and small Water Systems as well as the need these systems face. What is the funding gap for Water Infrastructure . I know earlier you gave a combined total. Whats the combined for Drinking Water and how much money does it entail . Epa has estimated the funding gap and they have estimated it to be 662 billion. Thats an estimate from 2002. And that estimate is based on the next 20 years. Thank you. And obviously the Water Systems represented on this panel i would think agree that more resources are required. So mayor keegan, do you support legislation to authorize the srf and increase funding available . You mentioned in your testimony the need for grants, not just loans. I think many of you mentioned that. Is it fair to say your village has reached the limit of its ability to borrow more for the needed funds . Oh absolutely. We really just cant even entertain a Municipal Bond at this time. Right now were only spending our budget items on repairs. We dont have enough money in our budget for replacement of old infrastructure. We are looking for funding but its just been a struggle to find any of that. And srf is also a vafshl thing for you . Yes. We encourage the refunding of that. Do you also support efforts to expand Technical Assistance initiatives like the aqua act . Absolutely, yeah. We call on lots of different any Technical Assistance that can be provided to us is really a value. And to the other gentleman on the panel, any responses in terms of Technical Assistance . And the relevant role it might play. In my experience Technical Assistance is absolutely essential in complying with the various rules and regulations of the epa, particularly because many of these rules are often complex and require innovative approaches. So the training and Technical Assistance thats provided for example, by our state rural Water Associations is indeed an essential component of compliance. And the other gentleman in terms of Technical Assistance funding and the srf . Very essential. We get mayors and water board managers and they need all the training they can get. The secretaries, rural water puts on training for them. They certify them. Every bit of assistance we can get is very well needed. And mr. Stewart . Technical assistance is important also because we need to ensure the investment that the federal governments making through epa and Rural Development. And that Technical Assistance allows people to go out and work with these communities, make sure the loans are going to be repaid, and also to implement mike Asset Management programs. Sought infrastructure and materials they have is going to be maintained in top operating condition so we dont have to go back repeatedly necessarily to replace things that could have been maintained to start with. The aqua act i introduced would cover some of these costs. I appreciate your comments. And with that i yield back. Gentleman yields back his time. Gentleman recognizes the vice chair of the subcommittee mr. Harper for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And i can think of few topics more important across the country in every Congressional District than the one were on today. So thanks to each of our guests who are giving testimony today and also welcome mayor hill and also just to have each of you here is something that we greatly appreciate. And my dear friend Kirby Mayfield whos here, whos ceo of the Mississippi Rural Water association whos been a great contact and person sharing information with us. So were thankful for that. If i could mr. Newman, ask you. In your testimony you talked about the trust relationship that small communities have with circuit riders. As we continue to discuss how epa could and should help our communities comply with federal regulation among other things, would you please take a minute and elaborate on the importance of that trust relationship that our Water Systems have with our circuit riders . Yes, sir. The relationship that has been established over the years between the rural Water Associations and the utility managers, the certified water operators, mayors and Small Town Council has been well established over many years. Prime example just last evening a Small Community in mississippi, their water well was down due to snow. And they lost power for a significant period of time. And the mayor of course customs was calling. It was developing into quite a situation. The mayor contacted me. And i immediately contacted the Mississippi Rural Water association, and they in turn immediately began locating a generator for that town and thankfully were able to get that generator delivered to resolve that situation. So in essence, the experience is if youve got a problem and you dont know what to do then you call the Mississippi Rural Water association and theyre there every time to provide the needed assistance. And im also glad that you explained to some of our folks, some of our members that we actually have snow in mississippi. So that was a surprise to i think some. And mr. Sellman, thank you so much for your kind words and your testimony. And i look forward to visiting with the double ponds Water Association folks next month in d. C. Thank you. You talked about hurricane katrina, which impacted our state and louisiana greatly. It was the greatest, most costly Natural Disaster ever in our states history. And you mentioned two Water Systems in Simpson County in my district and the assistance they received after katrina. Would you talk about some of the tools circuit riders have at their disposal that small Water Systems often dont have or have other access to. I think you mentioned radar equipment. How important are these tools to the survival of our smaller Water Systems . Yes. Very important. Before katrina we hadnt had a disaster in south mississippi like that since camille, i reckon 1969. But we were without power. And were about 120 miles from the coast. And we were without power about 20 days. 19 20 days. And at that time some of the Water Systems had started putting in generators. Very few but some had. And you know, like i said in the testimony, you can make it without power for a while. Rig up your generator to get the tv on or something. But without water you cant make it. And we immediately called our circuit riders arkansas, north mississippi, wherever they could get them, brought them to us helped us get hooked up and we got water flowing again. Same way with the waste water. We had smi lift stations that you had to pump waste water. We hooked into those waste water stations and got water to the lagoon or treatment plant. The Ground Penetrating radar you mentioned, they keep one of those and anytime we need to locate a line, a lot of these old lines were put in or growing up in trees now, you dont know exactly where the line is they come out there with this machine and locate that line for us and help us tap it. Help us do whatever we need. And that machines about 35,000 35,000. Most of these little systems dont have the money for that. We call rural water and they help us. Thanks to each of you and great to have all of you here, and thank you for that. And also want to specifically thank Ranking Member tonko for his assistance as we try to work through these important issues. The gentleman will yield back his time. The chair recognizes the gentleman from texas mr. Green for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman for both you and Ranking Member tonko for holding the hearing on the Drinking Water needs of smaller communities. I represent a very urban district in unincorporated and Incorporated Houston texas and we have some of the same problems in our suburban areas that will not be annexed by our cities because the property tax could never cover the cost and yet theyre literally south of intercontinental airport in houston and areas in that district. Over the years in texas weve received money from the state Revolving Fund. Partnered with using it in so many of these communities. But also partnered with the county for sewer service. But it bothered me that last year texas received the lowest amount of money from the state Revolving Fund of 53 million and that goes back to 1997 and thats not anywhere near accounting for inflation. The fact is deeply troubling because of the significance in growing drinking Water Infrastructure needs of texas in general and like i said, a very urban district. If its in the city theyll do it. But this area is not attractive to be annexed. And its very poor communities. They have their septic tanks still. Again, very urban area very Shallow Water wells. Mr. Newman, mr. Sellman and mr. Stewart, do you believe congress should reauthorize the Drinking Water state Revolving Fund this year . Ill be glad to start off. Yes i mean, it seems like an easy one. Yes, sir. Thats one of the most important mechanisms in this country to fund Water Systems. For the other three gentlemen. Do you all agree we ought thoto reauthorize it . Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Do you think congress should increase the funding provided to states and local communities through Drinking Water for state Revolving Fund . Raise the authorization for it. I explained to folks authorization is we have that but you can use the authorization as high as you want. You still have to go back every year and beg the Appropriations Committee for the money. Yeah if i may hes saying do you think the authorization should be raised . If we get asked for appropriations. I think the water needs around the country not only your states but others. My opinion is this is an investment. This is to capital eyes the Revolving Funds the state has. This is to capitalize money that can be revolved again and again for use of communities large and small. Should the fund be raised so we can cover more communities . Absolutely. I would also like to add that in addition to raising the funding to cover more communities, take a look at the process and make sure that the money is being utilized by the communities that it was intended to be ben feshl for. You think theres something in the authorizing law that would need to change to make that happen . Im not so sure about the process of the authorization of the law as i am concerned about just the implementation of the funds and those things that discourage the smaller communities in mississippi that im familiar with from pursuing those funds because these funds were intended to benefit these small communities. And theres a gap and i think we all need to figure out how to bridge that gap. The biggest problem we have in my area is these are very poor communities and to have a Revolving Fund and have it paid back they could hardly afford the monthly water bill and sewer bill to be able to pay it back. So thats the issue again in my area. I assume its in north mississippi just like it is in other parts of rural texas. The. Mr. Stewart, you indicated you worked two decades on Drinking Water issues. The last few years our rain stopped at the louisiana border. Goes from beaumont texas all the way out west its been drought. In the last year though, weve had good rain. In the houston area Southeast Texas and all the way to rio grande valley. But we still have problems out past san antonio. Because thats still in a drought area. How would you describe our current state of drinking Water Infrastructure in texas . I would say for the most part its pretty strong. Certain disadvantaged communities like youre talking about that i really think need some additional resources. Theres some hardhit drought areas in my area of Central Texas that i think need additional support. Fortunately texas has benefited because we have river authorities, we have a progressive Water Development board. We have people that are looking at this issue from a lot of different angles. Texas did provide recently the voters voted for a constitutional amendment to provide for it because of the problems we have. In 2011 harris county, as much of our state, was in the grips of the drought. During the height of the drought due to age water lines, hardening soil, hundreds of water line breakage daily resulting in billions of gallons of lost treated water. Mr