Committee as well. Republican of North Carolina. Thank you for talking to our viewers. Greta, its been a pleasure to be with you and to answer the calls as well. We want to welcome to our table Michele Jawando at the center for American Progress. Vice president for legal progress. Thanks for being here for this conversation. Thanks for having me. I want to start with the Police Shootings in North Carolina, in charlotte and tulsa. And talk about the trend. The Washington Post has a story this morning that Police Shootings are on par to be what they were last year, around 1,000 police killings. So, you know, as we begin to kind of consider this moment again for communities of color, particularly the Africanamerican Community, there seems to be a vicious loop that continues to play out. And i think sometimes we separate the hash tags or seeing the protests, and we forget these are family members. These are husbands. These are fathers. And while we as a country are reeliing with this tragedy, the families, those communities are individually impacted in ways we cant begin to fathom. For many communities, they look at whats happening in charlotte and what happened in oklahoma, and i think Many Americans of all stripes are saying, i think we can do better than this. There is a systemic pattern here, and i think as americans, we have to start to think about, well, what are the things we can do either in law or policy or what are good oldfashioned conversations we can have at our Kitchen Table to get us on the right track for the next generations. Whats happening with policing in this country that is leading to these Police Shootings, these fatal shootings . So, i think there are a few things. I think its important to also recognize that historically, for particularly the Africanamerican Community, the role of policing has always has some origins in a very ugly history. I think about the fact that this weekend, the opening of the Smithsonian Museum will happen, and there are many exhibits that look at the beginning and origins of policing in this country really started with slave patrols. There were officers who were looking for runaway slaves. Now, obviously, we have come a long way from there, but i think we have to also recognize that there are vestiges of kind of either disparities and treatment for some people, particularly in the context of Law Enforcement. When we talk about what are things we can do to kind of change what some may see seems to be the norm, i think it goes back to training, accountability and transparency. When we look at the fact that, according to the bureau of justice statistics, between 2011 and 2013, there were about 178 hours of training for local and state Law Enforcement. But only about 21 hours of that time was spent on use of force. And that use of force training also included deescalation training. The rest, firearms training, Rapid Response training. When we think about it, is that the balanced approach . Most would say its not. What is your response to the charlotte situation, as someone who practiced civil rights law, what do you make of this argument that the video should be released and should be released right now during this investigation . Well, i also attended law school in North Carolina, so this hits near and dear to me. I have many friends, colleagues, law professors who are still in the area. When the governor of North Carolina signed this bill earlier this year, i knew that this moment would come. And the reason i say that is, whenever you are trying to build trust between communities and Law Enforcement, those who are going who you are there to serve, you want to create an environment where you can build trust. Where theres accountability, transparency. When you are hiding information that is public record, you cast dispersions on whatever investigation is happening. So, y es, we are hearing report from the sheriff and Law Enforcement about whats on the video. But i think for most people, as they hear this, they want to see it themselves. It is public record. I think if you want communities to kind of take a step back and believe, then you also have to show the american people, you show your citizens that, yes, we believe you. We trust you. And we want to show you that were working on your behalf. Remind our viewers what law the governor signed. So earlier in the year, governor mccrory signed a bill that would essentially withhold police and dash cam video from the public. And that law also meant that families could view it but families couldnt release it. Their counsel could view it, but the counsel couldnt release it. And you have to wonder and you juxtapose whats happening in oklahoma. You dont see riots in the street. You quickly saw the charges come down. And you juxtapose that with what you have seen three nights of demonstrations and protests in charlotte. You have to ask yourself, whats happening here . And you see that transparency is a part of the problem. What do you think the introduction of body cams and dash cams and people using their cell phones, what has that done to what were seeing here in the criminal justice process . Well, without question, it has been revolutionary. It is definitely a disruptive technology. But i say that if we only look at bad behavior, and we dont fix the behavior, and we dont update the training, its not enough. We have to have a conversation about this country in this country about race and how implicit bias plays into our work. Earlier in the year, a number of my colleagues and i released a report at the center for American Progress where we talked about implicit bias. We talked about the fact that theres research thats has come out that says africanamerican men, according to some empirical evidence, are seen from Law Enforcement as hypermasculine and, therefore, maybe more prone to violence. Now when you have those biases, how are you going to react in splitsecond situations . The only way you can overcome that is when you have directed training that speaks of that issue where you continually are talking about use of force, and you also recognize how can i prepare my local Law Enforcement leaders and to prepare for these situations and these instances. How do i diversify my police force so that we make sure that we recognize that diversity is a strength, particularly in the Law Enforcement context. These changes that you talked about, are they included in the criminal Justice Reform bill thats pending before congress, some of those ideas . Well, sadly, ill say no, not yet. Many of these ideas were included in the president s task force on 21st century policing. I was very happy to see some of these recommendations take hold in many jurisdictions across the country, like in dallas. Weve seen some of these trainings also take hold in california and new york, so this is something local Law Enforcement can move on without having to wait for congress. And i also think that the this work should be ongoing. This isnt we take one of step and we finish. Progress is not completion. To the extent that we recognize these are things that we as a society have to grapple with and be aggressive about dealing with, i think well see some of the type of success that we need to rebuild the trust in our communities. Lets get some calls in from arlington, texas. Malik, independent. Caller how are you doing . Morning. Good morning. Caller first and foremost, id like to say that theres been a hundredyear history of police brutility. During the Church Committee hearings, theres been a situation where Law Enforcement was in ka thatses with in ku klux klan to murder and assault members of sclc. We also know these loaded phrases like saying they felt threatened or they were in fear for their life or the person was going for their gun have been rehearsed and have been legitimized because theres a culture in this country that has said, black people are not human. Weve been that way. Its been that way. Were on welfare, so the world, the country is better off without that burden. So if one gets killed, lets deflect from that argument of injustice killed, lets deflect from that argument of injustice, and talk about chicago or drugs or maybe he was on drugs or the hypothetical that he may have been threatened. I was in fear for my life. These are all loaded phrases to remind people to say this is a black person. They are not human. They are not here to be a part of our system of justice. This is not Law Enforcement. Police dont enforce law, they gain facts. People render judgments. Innocent or guilty or a judge will render innocent or guilty judgments. And its the people, the citizenry that enforces laws. Okay, malik, well take your comments. First of all, malik, i appreciate your comment and particularly about the origin of Law Enforcement. You know, there has been a lot of conversation about what black lives matter means. And i think the caller basically touched on this fact that the saying black lives matter in some ways is just a reaffirmation of the blacks in this country. And i think the reason it has taken hold has been because of a powerful, positive force in this country. Because if you look at the statistical facts, well is an ongoing disproportionate situation going on, of all the unarmed individuals, 40 were africanamerican men, but africanamerican men only make up 6 of the population. And this is the unarmed shooting by police in 2015. So there is something very real there so when you hear kind of the anguish and quite frankly the passion of your previous caller it is speaking to that fact that you continually see these instances. And you say you know what, something has to happen. This is not right. This is not my country. And sometimes quite frankly i dont feel safe in the country that i live in and i call home. Lets go to charlotte, North Carolina, welcome to the conversation, go ahead. Caller thank you, caller i was there wednesday at the park where there was a peaceful march and everything. We went down to the center, everything got really turned up. And the priests started lining up, talking about they dont care about black lives matter. But black lives matter are not hyper active ready to fight our time, we just want respect like everybody else does. Were not hear to start trouble. If the police are so scared when they see blacks, why dont they get another job or profession, youre so intimidated by somebody, a big black dude, why dont you get another job. You cant be scared in your job. You know, anthony speaks to something that is highlighted in our reports. There is research that shows that africanamerican men, even africanamerican boys are seen five to seven years older th. And when he was shot one of the callers called in and said i see an africanamerican, youre a young man. I believe around 18 years old. And so when the officer showed up and shot him in less than two seconds, he immediately didnt see a 12yearold boy with a bb gun gu gun, he saw an 18yearold man with a gun. I might add that ohio is an open carry state. So that is Something Different to speak to. But somehow how we play on it our implicit bias, which causes us to act in a split second. Ongoing training cant happen only at the academy. It must be ongoing and continual and we need to have a conversation in this country about why we dont have National Standards around use of force. What has been seen as kind of reasonable use of force in these instances. If all you can say is i was in fear of my life, but weve seen empirical differences, there has to be a reconciliation on how you view those two things. That is why we see research and training is important to appreciate the differences on how this occurs. Well go to robert on our line for republicans in brooklyn. Caller hi, good evening. I want to ask about perception, and not in North Carolina, but 28 states are they bring up the black thing in North Carolina, i would like to answer a question, when president clinton pulled away the confederate flag, and called black children predators, its because of people here and the view of the country. So you know, there are a few things. You know, North Carolina, actually as the caller stated has really been the epicenter of a number of major issues. You know, i was there in the late 90s and early 2000s. And North Carolina, you saw a great number of services in school, and restoring services for the Justice System. I will tell you, unfortunately in the last few years weve seen a huge shift and change away from kind of practices that would create a more open and diverse and welcoming community for all different people, whether youre talking about the Lgbtq Community in the context of the transgender bathroom situation. Or seeing the massive rolling back of Voting Rights, 2008 was the first time blacks in the state outvoted whites in the state. And you quickly saw an omnibus of what was called the worst Voting Rights bill in the country passed by the republican legislature. At the same time, you have now seen the governor put forth kind of really these draconian justicebills to sort of hide the dash cam videos and such. That is why you hear people like reverend barber saying the state is better than that, and they know they need to move forward not back wards. And we have had him on the show. I do want to follow up on the legislature that the governor passed because one viewer says you said with hold, but the law says unless directed to release by a judge. Yes, but one of the things i will say is whenever you put yourself in a situation where public again, public evidence that belongs to the people has to be litigated before a member of the bench, we have a problem of the there is no reason why we should start from the frame of you have to go through a number of different steps before you release information that would both lead to Greater Trust and belief in the process of your community. So you know, i recognize that that is a point. But quite frankly we see now that there have been over three days of protests, in the state contrasting that with oklahoma where that video was immediately released. And i think one of the things you can point to is there is a lack of transparency, which leads to a lack of accountability for all involved. What do you think regarding the state of carolina, and charlotte, and others with the stop and frisk policy, donald trump said it worked in new york. Others say it did not. It did not lead to a successful end. But what would lead to the october of that . So i am a new yorker and so excited that you asked this question. Because what we saw in new york after the removal of stop and frisk, we actually saw crime not only go down but you saw Greater Community involvement in solving crimes s in completes. So it says to us when you put forth policies that are not rooted in data or any type of fact, but you are making a massive kind of profiling you again erode the trust that you need. Whatever we do in this country, we have to figure out how to do it together. Law enforcement is not separate from our communities, communities are not separate from working with Law Enforcement. But you have to figure out what you can do to foster the relationships. And when you have draconian policies like stop and frisk, and we saw crime go down, after stop and frisk, we know that is a problem and not a policy we should bring back. Lets go to connecticut, james, i, good morning to you youre on the air. Caller so how are you doing today . Thank you for taking my call. Can you hear me . Yeah, we can. Youre on the air. Caller first of all the federal Interest Rates is one of the problems here in america that is really causing a lot of the shootings and killings. So we dont have to money to be able to invest in the communities, its really hard for us to elaborate on the poverty in those areas. The second thing is the job monopoly, they have a plethora of companies that are owned by so many i guess individuals that dont have blacks interests for mind. They exclude blacks from hiring. We look at the record and statistics. You will find real fast that a black man is the highest Unemployment Rate, as you showed it on cspan before. The Unemployment Rate for a black man in flint is i think somewhere like 80 . And the schools, the schools, a person on probation for ten years, 20 years. These are the things that stop people from getting a good education and get a job and be active in society. See, were not active in society so we can never ever have the ability to actually follow the rules the cops are asking us to follow. Lets get a reaction. I think your caller raises a very important point. The reality is one in four africanamericans live in an area of extreme poverty. And what we know is that in areas of poor communities, they live in areas with higher crime rates. So we dont want to talk about how to reduce crime in our completes. We have to look at poverty and generational poverty and look at how we continue to pour resources, job, Educational Opportunities in these communities. If we do that and again, that is a wraparound fullscale solution to the area of crime. I thi