Transcripts For CSPAN3 Office Of Strategic Services World Wa

Delighted and very fortunate to have added rob to our staff back in september. He brings a tremendous and wideranging knowledge of world war ii and european history in all its aspects to us. Presenceady made his felt by diving headfirst into exhibits, taurus, programs and conferences and many of her exhibits, tour s, programs and conferences and rob, take it away. Rob thank you very much. [applause] rob the diving headfirst was the easy part, it is getting right side of that is difficult. Thank you very much. I was hired after the agenda was set, so i have done light lifting and maybe one of the easiest assignments i have had, to interview Major General John Singlaub, an American Hero and a man that has had a very distinguished career. Reading the biography we also say that somebody like major John Singlaub does not have an introduction, but that is unfair, he deserves a nice long introduction so i will attempt to keep it to a medium length. He was commissioned as an infantry officer in 1943. He served in world war ii with the office of strategic studies as a member of the famous and we will talk about that in the next hour. He went to china to join oss to train and lead the chinese against the japanese. He took part in a rescue at a prison camp, which we will be talking about. In his assignments after the war, he was all over the globe. In europe, postings in the u. S. , also vietnam, the United Nations command in korea, he has been everywhere. I look at his decorations and awards and he will forgive me for listing them, a silver star, two legions of merit, a soldiers medal, two purple hearts, the air medal, the Army Aviation badge. [applause] rob the army eventually asked him to leave it so that others could win an award every now and then. [laughter] rob he retired after 35 years of active service. His biography, hazardous duty, which will be on sale at the end of the talk, was published in 1992. I just got my copy and opened it and it is an amazing book. I give you Major General John Singlaub. [applause] rob i guess the place to start is the beginning. Did you know you would be in the army forever . Did you grow up thinking you would be in the army . John i said in high school i wanted to go to the military academy. Things were going well, high school, Van Nuys High School in the San Fernando Valley of california. Everybody was convinced that i was all set and the doctors said i was in good shape and my academics were good. Then, i received a letter from my congressman, his name is carl henshaw, in case you are writing a list. He said he could not possibly give me an appointment to the military academy because my father was a democrat. [laughter] rob times have changed. John i had never heard rob times have changed. John i had never heard of a democrat in california in those days. And my father said, do not worry, because i only registered democrat because the union of union i union the jobng to in order to get my required that i register as a democrat. It is a secret ballot. Do not worry. So, i had to develop a plan b, and my plan b was to go to ucla and get a reserve commission and hopefully after the war was over, to get a regular commission. I intended to stay in the army, so that works out fine. I was proud to be a bruin and i continue to root for the bruins, although i must say, when the armynavy game comes up, i am on the army side. [laughter] rob how did you become a paratrooper, sir . John i spent a lot of time in College Reading the infantry journal and other military publications. And the germans, when they invaded poland, they did not use airborne forces. When they invaded france, belgium, and the netherlands, guys with parachutes, falling out, and use gliders to cross the maginot line. And that sounded like a hell of a good idea. I grew up in the eastern sierra and i was making it a point to climb this 14,000 foot mountain, as often as i could. My son by the way and his son have done it all. They have climbed every 14er in north america. But, anyway, i thought that being a paratrooper would be great. So when i was going to the infantry school, i volunteered and was accepted, went through and i was assigned to a paratrooper regiment. It was during that time that General Donovan, who was somebody roosevelt had put in charge, had actually started and was the coordinator of coi. The coordinator of information, the coi. Because roosevelt had great difficulty trying to figure out what was going on in europe. And he would get a report from the, the Political Part of our representation in berlin, from our embassy there, and he would get reports from the navy and when it all came down, it was a completely different story in the newspapers. So, he decided he, roosevelt, decided he needed to do something to get together the information that was coming in, sort it out before it was given to the decision makers, that is where the appointed donovan to be the coordinator of information. Well, donovan was sent on a mission to europe to find out if england was going to really resist the invasion that was obviously planned by the germans. He came back and he reported, yes, the british are going to stand and fight. But we ought to do something about these people who have already been overrun. He said, there have been they are occupied by the nazis, but they dont like it. And we ought to be able to help them. So he came back and recommended that the coi the expanded and be expanded and include strategic operations. And so the office of Strategic Services was established and they were given permission to travel around and examine the records of the officers assigned in all of the units. And it came to our regiment, with through the records, and i do not know except for what reason i had on my record that i spoke french and i had studied, i make a distinction, spoke and studied the other language of japanese. Well, when they said they wanted to talk to me and i was assigned a classroom to go and meet these people, they would not tell me where they wanted, why they wanted me, but they wanted to know if i would volunteer for hazardous duty behind the enemy line. Rob where did you get your french training . Took it at ucla . John i took it at ucla. Rob it was on your record. John it was on my record because i flunked it. [laughter] rob on your record multiple times. John i had to start over again. I never told my french partner. I ended up in oss, and it combined with the british ose, soe, the special Operations Executive that the british had established. I thought that being a paratroop regiment i was already planning on being in hazardous duty, but the significance of this new organization attracted me and i said i would like to do that. Rob anything else that might have led them to suspect you had the right stuff, besides french . John of course my french teacher would never agree i spoke french. If we approached german, the last thing he would say was, let me do the talking. [laughter] john after this happened 23 times, jacques, are you trying to tell me that those dirty germans would distinguish that i am not a frenchman . He says, jack, you speak american english with a slight french accent. [laughter] john so, that settled that and i remained quiet when we were going through a german checkpoint. Rob were you brought forth for an interview . You are asked if you wanted to volunteer for hazardous duty, so was there an interview process there, face to face . John we could ask questions, but if we asked where we were going we got, just hazardous duty behind enemy lines. I still realize it was going to be something a little more exciting than being a paratroop infantry platoon leader. And it was. Processing of applications took place in washington and i received orders to report to washington, d. C. , report to one of the buildings left over from world war i that had been built on the mall in washington. It was called the munitions building. And there was a major that checked me in. And that did not seem to set a high standard, but he was a general of some sort. Rob who interviewed you . You met General Donovan . John yes. In my first interview with him, he said, what makes you think that you are suitable for this assignment . I said, i am parachute qualified, a demolition list, i volunteered. He says, i know all that. But what makes you think that you are suitable for this organization . I said, i grew up in the eastern sierra and i have climbed a lot of peaks, and i enjoy that kind of hazardous activity. And i went on, and he said, i know. But then he finally agreed that maybe i might be suitable and he would let me know. Rob i read in your book when you met General Donovan, the thing you noted was the energy he brought into the room. How far did that go toward a successful officer, bringing energy into a room . John i think that is something about being a born leader that radiates. It is true, the really great leaders, when they come into a room, before they had said anything, people sort of our are attracted by that. And i think it is a quality that i do not think you can create, you cant train for it, but you have it. I tell people that asked me that question and especially the young officers that came into my unit, i interviewed them all, and i said the most support quality i want from you is integrity. No spinning the truth, no exaggerating the truth, you must tell the truth and even if it is not in your favor, it is important for us to know where you are, what you are doing and what your problems are. You have got to adhere to that. And so, integrity is what donovan had and everybody knew it. What he said was right and i insist that if an officer feels he does not have that ability, im losing my rob are you still speaking into the microphone . John i need to fix this. Rob i can give you a hand here. Lets see. [laughter] hows that . John if it fits. Rob that was national television. [laughter] john can you hear me . Ok. Rob it is interesting to me the notion of qualities a general needs. I think it is easy to think about military genius. You are speaking more about areas of character. John that is what is so important. Rob you already have been through paratroop training. We are interested in how troops are trained in world war ii. That is quite rigorous. Now, you are in a completely separate area of training. What was harder, becoming a paratrooper or becoming a member of your bird team . How were those trainings different . John a bird team is a five nation group of officers divided into three man teams. First there is an English Speaking officer, either american or british officer. Second, there will be an officer of the country that we are going to go into, either a dutchman, a belgian, or frenchman. And the third member of the team is an enlisted man, a sergeant rob i think were going to need some help. Jeremy, are you around . Lets have our media man from the back come up. John i could just Start Holding it here. Rob lets see if we can do the get this fixed. I think you can continue. We were talking about your fiveman team. John it is a threeman team. Englishspeaking officer, officer were going into, most were french. That was where the resistance was. The third member of the team was a sergeant. He could be british, french, or american. Am i on . Rob you are. I think we are fine. We look like rock stars. [laughter] john i am sorry to be getting so mixed up with the mechanics so that we cannot carry on very well. The threeman team was sent into occupied europe, into other either france, belgium, for the netherlands. Our job was to organize, train, supply, and then lead, if necessary, a Resistance Movement against the nazi occupation. I, obviously, was going into france. We were teamed together. We spent academic testing and so forth. First, the americans were assembled at the Congressional Country Club outside of washington, d. C. In maryland. Ill never forget when i asked the driver where we were going, we were loaded in a 2. 5 ton truck. After having met in the parking lot of the oss headquarters. Are going out, we to the Congressional Country Club. By golly, that is where we went. We were using the country club as a training facility. The general and a nutty psychiatrist had developed a program, called an evaluation. They would give you problems to solve. This is of course in addition to all of the other psychiatric test, the ink blot, first reaction, that sort of thing. They would give you a team of six guys or more, and tell you to perform some mission. One of those guys was camouflaged as a student, but in fact was one of the nutty psychiatrists that were evaluating us. [laughter] his job was to mess things up, and see how you solved them. That was our first training. When we got over to scotland first, we went farther out into the countryside. We took over a camp. There had been a boys camp known since roosevelt and started going there. Roosevelt called it his getaway, or something, but shangrila is what he called it, thank you. Rob shout out, thank you. [laughter] john my wife is helping out again. [laughter] rob our wives are actually sitting next to each other. I think it is critical mass. John the training there was disguised for psychological evaluation. We were surprised when we got to england after, some high testing in the winter of 1943, we were in northern scotland. When i went to church on christmas eve, i assumed that while the only church available was catholic, that it may be largely in latin, i may be able to get along all right. But it was in gaelic. [laughter] so it was not a very meaningful christmas in church. We did a lot of unusual things in the very cold air. We were given one bullet a piece and one rifle for every three men. If the first guy missed a stag, you would give up the rifle, and the next guy would have his chance. We did a lot of sneaking around in the bushes, which they considered a part of the training. Rob along with that stealth, there was hand to hand combat . John we had to fire our weapon at least once a day. We were scheduled to do that during this training. We got really good at instinctive firing. When you are in this business, you want to be able to get the first round headed toward the enemy, not coming toward you. Learning that british system of instinctive firing. Rob as opposed to aimed firing . John yes, squeezing off a round. Some of you in the army may remember time on the range with it being quiet and slow, and you just barely breathe. That is what the british were teaching us, how to respond. It is very important to be able to hit a target to aim out, but the target you aim at. But it is more important that you get the first round out so that you through the enemy off. Thats throw the enemy off. That is where instinctive firing came to hand. It was more important to your psyche, to your bravery knowing that you got the drop on the guy trying to ambush you. That just does a tremendous job in your ability to take on difficult targets. Rob you mentioned in your book, british majors that were trained. In your memory, are they 10 feet tall . John most of these majors in the british army had been assigned to the british concession in shanghai. They had spent a long time there learning not only the chinese equivalent of jujitsu, but were dealing with tough guys. We learned from them some things that would not be popular in todays easygoing armed forces. [laughter] john the training continued, we moved down into england, where we were given a great deal of individual training. We developed our skills not only in weapons firing, training in british demolitions, training in all known weapon systems that might be in the mainland of europe. We have good training on submachine guns for example. The other types of equipment we might run into. The demolitions are quite different, too. We ended up having to go through british psychological assessment. It was a little different. Each man was given a cover story. He was to live that cover story from the time he left our small mansion we were living in, taken over by the british soe. Some people could not resist the fact that when it appeared the test was all over, and we assembled in the bar, some of the guys were easily persuaded to give their real name, or what they were really doing. By the next day, they were gone. These guys had gone through an awful lot of training. The americans went back to the 101st to 82nd airborne divisions. Those of us that were selected or not selected out to continued the training, which got deeply into surreptitious entry, how to get into a house without a lock lock picking. Rob would you like to share your old cover story with the assembled group . John i dont even think i remember it. [laughter] i did not reveal anything that i shouldnt have. Again, i was selected for the next phase. The brits were very good at developing schemes. They would give you a mission, travel out through the countryside without being picked up by the bobbies. They of course had told the bobbies, there are some escaped germans wearing british and american uniforms, be on the alert for them. So you could just walk between villages. You had to figure a way from getting one place to another without being seen or observed. Rob in much of your book, you talk about your team. Who were your partners . What do you remember most about them . John my french man was a terrific guy. He was a descendent of the royalty of france. When he would go to london, we were on leave, he would ask to be with one of his friends, who was wellknown in windsor palace, and we went to the railroad station, and they wanted to go to windsor castle. And the taxidriver said okay, well, where do you really want to go . Rob no, windsor castle. John of course the taxidriver was dumbfounded when jacques got out and the gate guard saluted him and they went on inside. But that royal connection did not do us any good when we got inside france. [laughter] one of the schools that we went to was a british jump school. The british got some c47s, which is a military version of the bc3 air transport. The ones that the brits had to use, especially for these missions going deep into france or other parts of europe, they had to use bombers. We had to learn to jump out of the bomb bay of a bomber. The parachutes were sufficiently different that the british called our method of jumping, or landing, parachute landing fall. Their system was better than ours. Our system caused me to break my right ankle the first time. And that delayed to me a bit getting through jump school. The brits tought this, you don