Smithsonian national air and Space Museum Live this evening beginning at 6 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan 3s American History tv. Next on American History tv, nasas earliest days with wally funk. One of 13 women selected to be the first lady astronaut trainees or f. L. A. T. S, this is sometimes called the mercury 13, as they underwent some of the same physiological tests as their male counterparts, the mercury 7 astronauts. Unlike the mercury 7, these women never flew a nasa mission. Funk was interviewed as part of the Nasa Johnson Space Center oral history collection. This is about 50 minutes. This is carol butler and im doing an oral history for the Nasa History Office with wally funk. Retired ntsb investigator, senior Flight Instructor, chief pilot. Wonderful woman of aerospace. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you very much for having me. To begin if we could talk briefly about your early career and your interest in aviation developing and how you, how you moved forward into the aerospace career as a woman. Well, aerospace was not a name in my young life. But flying airplanes was. I got my first try at flying, just pure flying by flying my superman cape off my daddys barn when i was about five years old. And then i was allowed to make airplanes out of blocks of balsa wood and hang them from my ceiling. When i went on to college, i was allowed to take flying as my mother had dearly loved flying and her father wouldnt allow her to. So they encouraged me then to go on to my aviation career. I was at a girls school for two years, got my private there. Then i went on to Oklahoma State university, who would be the time from the mid 50s through to the 70s. Im a national, International Judge for safecom universities and colleges. So now im giving back the safety that ive learned over my 44 years of instruction, to the kids that just starting out in the flying that i started in, in the early, in the late 50s. It all has come around full circle. Oklahoma state afforded me most of the rest of all my ratings. I would trade off mowing grass between the runways for my glider reading or my sea plane rating. And that was a great experience as a kid of 19, doing such things. And there was never any eyes raised or eyebrows raised about whats that girl doing. I had great parental enthusiasm. And helping me to continue my education that i wanted in aviation. And it wasnt until i graduated from Oklahoma State and went down to fort sill, oklahoma where i was a Flight Instructor that i learned about jerry cog had been in phase 2 off the magazine cover of life magazine. And i wrote immediately to the doctor that had used her as a subject. Was dr. Seacrest at the va hospital. He puts me in touch with dr. Rand y lovelace at albuquerque, new mexico and dr. Lovelace writes back, fill out this form and your date is a month away. Can you come . So i was not on the original list. But and i was 21 and i was too young. They had to get extra permission for me to take the same tests as the mercury 7 astronauts took. Now they have picked 25 women candidates out of the records and there werent records in washington, d. C. In those days. For this, there were. And at 99 headquarters. But it wasnt as it is today. So comprehensive. They found women that had a college education. Over 1,000 hours of flight time. I had to have a commercial instrument rating. Top physical condition. And be willing to go through these tests. So i said yes, of course i want to go. And yes, of course get information for me to go because im just a kid. Well, it turned out that was to my benefit. Because i had no preconceived ideas of what was going to happen in any of these tests. I had no idea that things could be done to my body and to my mind. That they did do as a youngster. As you will. Being a grownup now, i might have had some reservations going in, as many of the other women probably did. I took a lot it in stride, it was going to get me one step closer into space and this is where i wanted to go. I did as much as i could in Space Exploration for physical tests, psychological tests as possible to get me into absolutely a race for space against russia in those days. 25 women were put through the tests, but only 13 passed. Thats why were called the mercury 13. We got all together and exchanged stories and described that we would buy a jet aircraft from england, which was called a small vampire, but then nasa reorganized therrien nomenclature, so to speak, that you had to have jet test pilot time this was impossible for a girl to have in those days. I was taken 30 years for eileen to go up in space and she was the first girl to be able to go from Edwards Air Force base, she was 20 years in front of us. So the thing that im most happy about is that eileen is going to be in that left seat, and in less than two days. She had a vision, and at 5 she knew she wanted to fly. And she patterned her life, there was at least enough knowledge out there to pattern her life to know that she had to get her licenses. She had to go to the aircraft. She blossomed in the air force. Got on with nasa. This is her second trip up. Weve got a girl in the left seat and thats just absolutely incredible. This is going to show youngsters and young ladies that are going to see this particular program, that you can do anything you want to do with your life. Math, to stick with and have as your personal goals. Eileens tenacity, her, her personal goals, her dedication has a lot of people from around the world to come together. Absolutely. Its fabulous. Before you got involved in the, in the testing program, had you thought about even the possibility of going into space before . Before i wrote about geri cobb . It was not something i knew about. It was just it was just as new as new. We didnt know what astronaut meant. You jumped into it. Absolutely. I knew that that was for me. I wanted to go into exploration, ive always been sort of an explorer in my youth. Great. And you need to be an explorer, youre exploring still. Yes, i hope to go on to russia, with the zigren voyages and be part of a crosstraining of american astronauts and russian cosmonauts. So that we can use their facility at star city and go through some of the same tests that eileen has gone through in houston. Ive been down to houston many times and ive observed what she has done, what the astronauts are doing down there. But coy never have the chance of, of partaking in such a wonderful schooling. It will be interesting to see how the training that youre able to go through in star city measures up with the testing and training that youve been through when you first started out as a 21yearold, not knowing anything about space opportunities. Whats interesting about your statement is weve come such a long way in technology. That the things that i was tested on, people arent tested on any more. They were testing us to our extremes. To how much can we take of water being injected no our ears and how fast is our eye going to stare at a particular object. And i had no control over my body. And was i going to fall off . And yes, i would have if i wouldnt have been strapped into a dentist chair. Or what would i do in a tank of water that was so, and the humidity of the room was so perfectly controlled, to my temperature that i couldnt feel the water on my hands or my face . Because there was no hearing, smelling, all your senses were taken away from you. And you were to stay in there as long as possible. And i broke the record of ten hours and 35 minutes. That must have been a very interesting experience. It was so easy for me. As the youngster then, you didnt have a lot on your mind as youngsters today do. And the question always comes up, how could you stand 10 35 minutes . On the contrary, when they said how long do you think youve been in there . I said if i wasnt hungry, i didnt have any bodily needs, about five hours. So everybody thats taken this particular test, the scientists today. And an isolation situation. Everyone cuts their time in half. Now the guys, the mercury 7 were set in a room. You know you can count a lot of things in a room and entertain yourself. Where i was on my back, floating in this water with all my five basic senses taken away. Couldnt smell, touch, taste, anything. And just had to lay there. Now they wanted me to talk and sing, but no, sir, i didnt talk. This would be a very difficult interview. This was a long time ago. But ive learned to talk since then. Thats good. You mentioned a couple of the other tests, the water in the ear. What were some of the other as you came down the first phase of testing. What were some of those tests . And at any point did you stop to think, what am i doing . Or anything along those lines . Your last question first, no, i had not a shadow of a doubt. I was their subject, they could do anything with me that they wanted to do. And i didnt know that you could get xrayed from head to toe and it would take a whole day and every single tooth and every single bone. They wanted perfect specimens at that time. Now lets go back to the men. The mercury. There were 159 men selected from the Armed Services to go through these tests at lovelace. How many, 25 women were selected. And how many, how many passed . 13. So do we have a little bit of information here on how well do women do things . How well did they come up . Terrific. How well did they go across the prairies and settle the west in their covered wagons . Great. Big families, didnt think anything about it. Why cant we fly and go into space . Men today that think that we cant as women do things sorry, folks. We can do it. A woman and im sure eileen has tried extra hard to do her best. Because nobody wants to fail. But and failure is not a part of my, my makeup. I do the best i can do. And i kick as many doors in as i possibly can, no matter where i go. And you have fun doing it. Yes, i love life. You bet. Thats the way to do it. You got to enjoy life as youre going. As you were doing the testing, you said you didnt know any of the other women that were going through it. But you had of course read about geri cobb. After were you done with the very first phase, what contact did you have with people running the program or with dr. Lovelace or how did it continue that you could go on with the next phase of the program . Pensacola, she had done this about six months to a year prior to my going through. We were talking about how you became involved in the second round of the testing and how you found out even about the opportunity. Well the second round of testing would be what geri cobb had went through in pensacola florida. It was all scrubbed, most likely a political situation. But california and various states. So at ump sc i was able to take the centrifuge test. Now being a civilian and being a girl. They would only give me three gs, and i could not have a g suit. Only men could have those things. So i called mother up in hemmett, california and said mom, i need your worst merry widow and girdle when you were a girl. Can you get those to me . You betcha. So i modified and made my own gsuit out of her, her merry widow and just stuffed my body in this tight little thing and put my flight suit over it. Because i knew once they started to twirl me around in the centrifuge, obviously they thought i was going to go out within, the first goround. Of 3 gs. I knew to keep the blood rushed up in my body. Up in my head. So obviously they gave me three gs for two minutes at a time. Okay. Second round. No big deal. I punched out the buttons, that were coming up for my assignments. Third time around, no big deal. A little tired, but its okay. Fourth time around, i dont know if the guy really hit the button and gave me a few more gs, or it was that many more gs, the same amount of gs, but my body not having a rest in between. But what happens is, when youre going around this long arm, extended arm, going around this room very, very quickly and trying to punch out the different lights theyre giving you as assignments, you start to gray out. And when the grayout effect starts is when the blood is coming down from your brain at about halfmast to your eyes, part of it is gray and the rest i could see you. Well i knew that was happening, so i just clenched up my body and my neck and i pushed all that blood back in my head and it cleared up. So i could keep doing my thing. I never told them until i came out in dateline 25some years later that i had made my own g suit and i passed with flying colors. Thats great. Then the other test was the seat ejection test at el toro. And that is where i was placed in a particular flight suit and parachute rig. And i was shot up on a long, long pole. Almost like go hit the gong and then come down. And so obviously i went up as far up as the slide would go. But came down with a terrible thud. Not really realizing kind of a lot of powder, like a bunch of fire crackers, underneath my seat. I pulled this canopy up over my helmet to keep my head back against the back head rest so my head couldnt come forward, because you could break your neck. But coming down, i didnt realize, but the guys knew it i would have a tremendous headache and you could have a back compression. Soy wonder if anything has happened here. Nothing happened. I was fine. I just got, they took all the gear off me. And the next thing they just ushered me right in to the high at tut chamber test. In those days, they could take a civilian up to 39,000, today its only 29,000. And we zoomed on up there. And on 100 oxygen, thats the best way they say to get over a hangover or a headache. Is to breathe 100 oxygen. I was feeling great. And here comes the test. We want to you write your name and anything you want, add some numbers on this piece of paper. So at that altitude you can only last a matter of 10, 15 seconds without oxygen again. So im writing and i think im doing really terrific. You have a feeling of well being here without oxygen. This is how a lot of airplane people have accidents. Because they have a feeling of euphoria. And theyre not getting the right oxygen to their brain. To read the instrumentation correctly. They get into trouble. Well, of course we had a lot of noses pressed up against every window looking at this girl in there. They never had a girl before. Writing down and doing my assignment. Thinking im doing a great job. I heard it, but i didnt respond. They said waly, put your mask on. Put your mask on. But i was out of no oxygen to the brain. They let me go as long as possible, i simply just slapped the mask on me. And then everything became clear as a bell. And not only had i not stopped at the end of the page here, i had gone on and did 30. And doing great. So that was, the High Altitude test. And the last test was phase 3, conducted at the house in oklahoma city. Put into the tank as i had described earlier. What an interesting array of tests that you went through. And then on top of it, in the 80s i went to space camp for a week. So ive done everything coy possibly do to learn and grasp more about the Wonderful World of space travel. Its good to see you being so interested in maintaining that enthusiasm. To pass it on to others. Absolutely. Just today, kids today have a wealth of knowledge, if they just have parents or teacher to say you can do anything you want to do. And go after it. Encouragement of going after it. Taking all the math and science and engineering courses throughout, and kids are on computers today. The youngsters that im teaching to fly today, ive got 16yearolds and 17yearolds that im teaching, theyre grasping flying and im showing them seven to eight hours of the computer industry. That theyre learning to fly on the computers. Its a whole new way to learn. I learned by the seat of my pants. And you show me that i respond and thats exactly how i learned how to fly. It wasnt really out of reading a book. It was show and tell. And my acrobatic instructions i would look at the picture, have somebody show me. A good way to learn, just by doing it as you go. While youre doing the testing, shortly after that, they had congressional hearings, actually, lining with bringing women in as astronauts. When nasa was hiring the second group of male astronauts. Were you aware of those at the time . I dont remember where i was at that 0 period of time and ive been asked that over and over again. I dont think any of us knew what geri and jamie hart had prepared to do themselves to do to go and defend us as a group. Mind you, we didnt know each other yet. I knew jackie cochran. She had been very generous to support phase 1 financially. I had wonderful letters from her. But i didnt realize. Out of the country, or i was so buried in my work that i didnt realize until after it was over that these hearings had gone on. The parameters are jet test pilot experience to be an astronaut. Which let us out of the league. . For the time being. Yes, yes. Thank you for adding that. These girl test pilots and i think weve got two female or eileen and another gal that are testing so that because eileen has to have a backup, girl backup. Hopefully well be seeing more and more. Absolutely. As you said, you were traveling overseas for a length of time. You had your career in aviation. Tell us some about that, if you would. An overview of what you did. Well i went over to russia with two goals in mind to see the paris air show. And to meet valentina peshkova. She had already gone up in 63. So i saw the paris air show. I went to russia by myself. Scared to death. On a train, from vienna to moscow. And never got to meet her. And i was being sponsored to get to russia to meet her, but the russians this is cold war time. The russians didnt want us to meet. There i was in russia by myself for a week. Thats what my ticket allowed me to be there. Interesting experience, going over on the train. When you get to the border between poland and russia, they stop the train, everybody has to get off for a good hour. And nobody knows whats going on. And they try to give me shots, they took my passport away. It was a little spooky. I said no youre not sticking me with any needles. Got back on board. And no more knowledgeable, why they took us off, off. But i was in russia or in moscow. I got to see a lot of the things that they wanted me to see. The university, the kremlin, the da da da da, didnt dare speak to anybody. Nobody would speak to me. Getting back on the train to go back to vienna, when we got to the border crossing, i decided to play sick and stay on the train. I wanted to know what was going on. So they came and pulled all the shades down and said stay right there. And when they left, the guards left, i peeked under one of the blinds and took a picture. And what they were doing is they had great big forks and they came and they lifted each train car up. And slid a narrower track underneath it. Real wide tracks in their country and the rest of europe had narrower tracks, this was one of their w