Thanks to the witnesses for testifying today. A few questions still come to mind after all this discussion we have had here. The first one that i have is when i look at the data on students obese or overweight, do we have any evidence which direction their direction has gone . First to ms. Burwell. Any indication on whether this program is reducing the overweightness of our children in school, or whether it might be working against us . So with regard to the specifics, ill refer to my colleague secretary vilsack. I think what we know in younger children we are starting to see overarching across the board. We are starting to see the numbers go in the right direction. With regard to the specifics of school programs, i would defer to the secretary. I would prepared to redirect that question after your response. I will tell you we saw the obesity rate of high school decrease 9 . In the four years after that, the obesity rate increased by 16 . Have you seen any data like that from the center for Disease Control control . Does that cause you to wonder what the result of this might be . Congressman, i would be happy to take a look at that information to better understand it. This is not a situation where we will see fundamental change in a year. I think it will be a general racial process. And im convinced that from a general racial process were going to see progress. And i think secretary burwell is correct that we have begun to see progress, particularly among younger children. Let ask you another one. This says the opposite. We went to the four years prior. It was the longest period of time we would have balance. Four years before and four years after. Four years before, obesity went down, according to cdc. And four years after went up 16 , according to the cdc. Now, i dont know how to explain that. Im getting more and more complaints about not enough food for these kids. Were all very well aware of the complaints as this was implemented in the fall of 2014. Now were well into the school year in 2015. Have the complaints gone up or down . They have gone down. Some districts that left the program have come back into the program. Im glad to hear that. How is is that program been doing in rhode island at North Smithfield where they are feeding 3,000 pigs from the waste from the school. An industry that is is created. I still get a lot of complaints on hungry kids. That question. And then is there evidence that our students k12 getting overweight because of the Lunch Program . Any evidence that it came from school lunch . Congressman, the rudd study at university of connecticut, a study at berkeley, university of california, berkeley, suggesting that kids are eating more fruits and vegetables. No more food waste. In fact, are eating more of their their entrees than ever before. We are focused on the food waste issue. Im sorry, your second question . Was there ever any evidence prior to 2010 they were getting overweight on school lunch . That is sort of an interesting question. It can be answered yes and no. Yes, because it was part of the overall caloric in take. If they overate, then everything they ate in a day contributed. If we fit it within the standard, it shouldnt contribute to obesity, especially if we are reducing the salt, sodium, and sugar. My time has expired. Thank you. Mr. Neuhouse. Thank you for being with us. Appreciate your time. Ive got a couple observations but also some requests. Ill try to get through in four minutes. I have spoken with a lot of impacted constituents. And also through my own review it seems clear that this dietary advisory guideline went outside their scope in their recommendations including recommendations from taxes to local restaurant zoning to Food Labeling and sustainability policy. According to the underlying statute, there was a sole product of this back in 1990, each report shall contain guidelines for the general public. Secretary vilsack, back in march, the wall street journal reported you saying, i read the actual law and what i read is our job ultimately is is to formulate dietary and nutritional guidelines. And i emphasized dietary and nutrition because thats what the law says and i think its my responsibility to follow the law. There are forums and places for that to take place. The lack of evidence to suggest that neither exercises any effort on their scope or mandate. Secretary vilsack and secretary burwell established the committee you did so that it was objective and available to the public. Members of are full time employees and rely heavily on staff to carry out their duties. Higher meat consumptions for the mediterranean diet. Or when i can see recommendations onned aing sugars versus National Sugar like the institute of medicine to reach conclusions. I worry greatly about the process and the guide answer and oversight they have been given. So i think it would be helpful for the committee to provide these Committee Evidence in writing to confirm that your agencies did, in fact, make an attempt to oversee the Advisory Committee once it became clear they were delving into public policy. I would like to see that your agency provided directions to the make sure they were not straying into matters outside their scope or mandate. Likewise, documented evidence of the instructions agencies provided to the committee on the public lot to help them understand the report must be based on the preponderance of scientific and medical knowledge thats current at the time of publication. Finally, i would like to welcome your advice on future Advisory Committees and how to state focus on their charter and produce a recommendation that really stays coloring within the lines. I would appreciate a response. Thank you. We will certainly provide response to your questions, congressman, as we are bound to do and will be happy to do that in writing. I think my advice to secretaries will be to continue the process of educating people about what these are and what they are not. And the distinction between the report and the guidelines. There seems to again, i have said this several times today. There seems to be a misunderstanding that the report equals the guidelines. That is not the case. It is is one aspect of our consideration. One aspect of the adult, information, used to formulate these guidelines. To me this debate has been helpful, i hope, in getting a better understanding precisely what the recommendations are. I think it is also healthy as it relates to what is the focus of the guidelines. Is it focus on treatment, or both. I think thats a healthy discussion. The gentlemans time expired. Mr. Thompson, four minutes. Thank you, chairman. Thank you, both secretaries. Really appreciate you being here. My first question is is specific. It is is an area i care a lot about. Why do americans, especially children over the age of 4, fall short of the dietary guidelines recommended serve issings of milk and nutrients and vitamins and what cancan we do to promote policies to enhance milk consumption . Basically, were taking a look at those issues right now, congressman. And i think the goal here is as we learn more, as we understand more, as we relearn lessons of long ago, thats going to change the direction and focus. Thats whole reason we do this. It is an evolving process. As our information evolves, our policies will evolve. We are taking an issue of milk and the ways in which milk can be introduced in ava right of different ways. I appreciate those efforts. How much of a factor do you think it is is that we publish these guidelines once every five years. As you said, five minutes before you publish, there is new evidence that probably is contrary to what youre publishing. And i would assume, im assuming correct me if im wrong that the rate of Research Within nutrition is significant, which is a really good thing. So the fact is as soon as you publish these guidelines, to some extent they are in can accurate. The longer they are in, the morin accurate they are. When you publish them, doesnt that influence the markets . I would argue i think. Im not going to argue. But i would think when it comes to milk, at one point the guidelines discouraged milk. Took all the flavor out of it because fat was bad for you. I know the science shows contrary to that. You take the fat, you take the taste out. Somehow these guidelines we do every five years that are never really totally accurate and increasingly more accurate increases the ag commodity marketsment. So my question for you, given the fact these were i may be wrong, under president carter, when it was originated, are Americans Health wherer or less healthy since the guidelines have been published. Havent they somewhat failed . Were talking about increasing obesity. The pentagon is more concerned than ever approximate having access having kids that would be able to serve in the military. We havent these guidelines really successful given the disease and chronic illnesses and conditions . And my second question is then how do we use these in a way that they could be successful . Because they dont seem like they are accomplishing the objective, as you two very well articulated today . So i think we do want to. And i think the issue of obesity is one that has a number of different elements. And the physical activity guidelines, which are something as a former rehabilitation guy, im all in on that. That is another piece that i think we need to focus and we need to make sure these things are being used. Youre right to reflect. The question is what is is the Critical Path issue and what is the counter factual . Thats the other thing that i think we all cant answer. Were on the wrong trajectory. But would the trajectory have been worse . Let me make a suggestion and get a response the few seconds i have lost. It seems once every five years, this doesnt work. It changes. It cancan negatively impact commodities that irresponsible to tell people not to eat certain things when the next round says eat more of it. Cant we share the best research with folks. A place where people can go to to get the best possible information in terms of eating and knowing that that changes all the time. Once every five years, i dont think this is effective. Sorry, chairman. You have to have general guidelines that provide some parameters. Do we have study guidelines once every five years . You could theoretically go every year. Fiveyear period is good. Obviously it gets better informed. And i think this issue of obesity is far more complex than saying because we have these guidelines that somehow we have become an obese nation. Its got to do with the fact that an average kid spends seven hours in front of a screen every day. Thats part of it, right . It is is portion size. Thats part of it. It is a variety of factors. The guidelines, i suppose if every american followed the guidelines it might be a different situation. But we dont. But it doesnt mean we shouldnt have them. Mr. Love her for four minutes. Thank you for being here today. Ms. Burwell, let me follow up on what mr. Thompson was saying on that as well. We have been hearing eggs are bad. It turns out eggs are okay later. Then you hear beef, red meat. And high protein diets help you to weight. I was talk to go a constituent but they are staying away from fruit. It has carbs, sugar in it. How are people supposed to know when the guidelines are changing all the time. I guess following up on your fiveyear thought. Is it good to have a hard and fast fiveyear timeline on changing the dietary guidelines, less frequent, more frequent, or change what you know to change and have leave the rest alone . What do you think of that . I think making a choice on five years probably made a good choice. And the reason for that is is while we heard from some of your colleagues about extending the period, you know, lets think this took 18 months for the Advisory Committee to do its work. Then you have an additional 75 days with a period of comment for us to receive comments on that. And then you have the period for us to review and get out. When you add that up and you think about that timetable, if you tried to shrink that, the question is, would you have relevant change . I guess what im looking at is maybe most of the guidelines will exist for a long time. It seems like with school books, they throw out the school book and you buy a whole new one. So let me follow that up with should there be a legislative change we should reduce that would help this process. I dont know there should. I think we are like the school books. Most of this is consistent. I think you reflected in terms of where there were changes. The things that are key recommendations have been relatively consistent since the 1980s in terms of the importance of fruits and vegetables. The importance of a balanced approach with fewer calories than the nation currently consumes. In several select areas it is is fair to appropriately reflect the science has changed. But the dominant picture is a very similar picture over the periods of time. And so i also think it is is important to distinguish between the dietary guidelines and what is happening in our Popular Culture with regard to different diets proposed by different people in different ways. I think distinguishing that is an important element. It gets to what are the guidelines and what are they not. A lot of overlapping messages being sent. It can be seen by the people as confusing or difficult to follow. Do you think the 2015 guidelines will be more straightforward, giving people more straightforward ideas . Is 2015 going to be an improvement over that . We will work to make things as simple as we can. The real way people interact with these things, the implementation of school programs. Or the labeling issues. Thats how most people interact, what the dietary guidelines are in terms of how they get their advice, what they are going to eat and that sort of thing. What does follow the dga mean to you, madam secretary . There are these guidelines. When we apply a perspective of the federal government to certain programs they are the basis that we think about promoting the programs, whether thats meals on meals, or Million Hearts Initiative at cdc to reduce by a million the number of people with heart attacks. An important element is understanding what the dietary guidelines say. Thank you. You have had a difficult job the last year. The gentlemans time expired. Before we adjourn i will ask any comments from the Ranking Member . Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. The first thing i want to say is how much we appreciate both of you cabinet officials coming before us at the same time. Thats a rarity, and we really appreciate it. Agriculture is indeed our most important industry. It is is the food we eat, the water we drink. It is our survival. And i think youve got the feeling from this committee of how important this is. And i hope that what we have discussed today that you all will take back in the manner and the spirit in which we have given it. Because this is the single most important industry in the world, our agriculture. My hope is that you will take back and understand even go back and review a bit. Secretary vilsack, you hit the nail on the head when you stated they sit there before the screen. Thats exactly right. When you and i were coming along, folks would say, daddy or mama, can i go out to the play ground . Thats a phrase we dont even here now. Theyre going upstairs, downstairs, or going in the room and get on the internet and sit before the screen hour after hour. Thats why it is so important now that we use our science to make up for that. And thats why i hope that you will take my suggestions to go back and look and make sure we have were using the strong scientific evidence. And if they are saying things like the low calories sweeteners where studies have shown it will lower obesity, go back and review and explain why you dont use that. Or maybe you go back and you say, you know what, i think we can use this to make a difference. And thats why i think, mr. Chairman, this has been an extraordinary and very important hearing. And i thank you for calling it. It is a big deal to get both at the same table at the same time. We appreciate that. Restoring trust if there needs to be restoring trust. Hopefully the next time the key is asked. You said guidelines dont change much from issue to issue. Is that a bias that if im a scientist and i have a body of work that is comes to certain conclusions and im going to be hard bit to change my conclusion against new evidence . Thats going to be an issue thats there. Hopefully the next time the question will be asked, are the guidelines themselves contributing to the problem. The emphasize on carbohydrates. The impact it has had on these issues we are talking about with obesity, diabetes and other things. Do we have anybody who will live these five years to see what it did to them. I know you guys tried to gather a that information. But the guidelines are important. They are voluntary for me. Im going to go have lunch and i will decide for myself. They are not voluntary in school Lunch Programs, snap and many others. They become the law of the land. It is important we get it right. And i appreciate limiting the criticisms about the sustainability, taxes. You laid those to rest. The emphasize on within the scope. I appreciate that. I appreciate trying to clarify these were guidelines. You have work to be done between now and december. Perhaps the proposed rule were might have some value. I understand, tom, getting it finished is an important process as well. So i appreciate the spirit of which you came. The rules of the commute, the reported will remain open for 10 calendar days to receive material, written supplementary. This meeting is adjourned. As this hearing comes to a close, reminder you can watch again any time on cspan. Org. Secretary sill vac and burwell will issue new dietary guidelines in december. Several touched on a Washington Post article that reads in part, citing the role of dairy fat and heart disease, u. S. Dietary guidelines long recommended people steer clear of whole milk. For decades, meshes are owe americans have obeyed. But the opposite might be true. Contrary to government advice, people who consumed more milk fat, had lower incidents of heart disease. Go to washingtonpost. Com. More live coverage at 1 00 p. M. Eastern today. Baltimore mayor stephanie rawlingsmake will speak to the National Press club and talk about americans in urban areas. Riots, if you remember, broke out in april, after the death of a black man in police custody. Youll be able to watch the mayor live at 1 00 p. M. Eastern today here on cspan3. And a former Baltimore Mayor, governor of maryland, martin