Need to get this. Again, if we talk about it with the breakthroughs. What we know now today, just expand it. We have life support on the station. We need to push it to where its reliable and doesnt require so much maintenance. We need to look at the parks to do repair. We are doing that on board. I dont consider those big breakthroughs. I have to get comfortable. Its the maturity level that we use for the nation they positively have to work. Thats the way i look at the challenges. The operation and the proving ground that charlie and bill had mentioned. We have to take systems and days and months and weeks. We need the time and the capability to do that. We will talk about this. I was going to add that i think we can make sure that every piece of technology we work on, its extensible to mars. Thats the judge of the technology that we are working on. Can we use it in that vision. I dont want to do demonstrations just for demonstrationss sake, but be putting systems that we can use for mars. The example is the Redirect Mission and the spacecraft. I have given that as a design condition. That is the most basic architecture you can use to transport cargo to mars. We are looking at missions built on using that as a key piece. How do they fit into the mars mission. They look at everything they are doing. We do the next life support system for stations. It will be the next we planned to put into the lodge with the ghost of mars. We bring it out and we will go. Its not a demonstration and lets test this to see how it works. Lets take those to space and see how they work. What do you see as you work on problems. This can change, but right now as you look at it, whats the hardest problems sn radiation or Something Else sn. Again, i think radiation exposure needs understanding. Not much we can do with the background of radiation. We are approaching it several different ways and went to the institute of medicine and asked them to take the standards and the limits on astronauts. They said could we push those limits a little bit. Is it acceptable to change the limits that we carry for mortality caused by space radiation to the crews. Can we change and alter those and they gave us considerations to talk about. Not only the technology, but the requirements and is todays. The restrictions themselves might be too restrictive. Astronauts might accept that risk. Yes. We have now basic guidelines from the institute of medicine of what considerations go into the discussion. That solves a lot of problems. We have got the framework, but again the point is we are not looking at a single solution or breakthrough. The question is we are looking at all aspects of the problem to try to figure out a solution that gets us to where we want to go. Lets talk about this for a moment. Iss is a ground and on the one hand that sounds good. A lot of people say its a drain on the budget and its a problem. Does iss give you more than it takes sn. I believe it does. It forces you to make decisions like the life support system. If we make that the support system, i got a test system i could never test. We could test and what we learned is we thought we had the greatest removal system in the world. We get it on orbit and find out all this moves out of the bed and it goes into the valves and clogs everything up. We found out on the water system that the tubing is permeable to Carbon Dioxide that goes into the system and creates a nutrientrich environment and had biofilm all over. We tested extensively underground and saw none of those problems. By going to the environment of pace and being in the closed loop environment with the c02 levels, that pushed the problems. I think station can give you that chance to really dry run and test the equipment on orbit. You dont use station as an ancillary or piece. You pick those that are necessary and you use the advantage of the station to do that. Some are better tested underground. You make a smart decision about what you want to do. The most costeffective way to keep moving towards mars. If you didnt have the station, would you be looking to make a station or a capability like that sn. You would be spending resources to get a platform to operate in to get to the station also. Dont forget the transportation and a means to get to space to demonstrate technologies. The station provides a Research Platform that is supplies that has crews and propulsion. What we found on the demonstrations is the focus on the money and the technology that tries to leverage what else is out there as opposed to spending money time and time again for operation into space. Another piece on station is the one we will do with the crew members next year in 2015. We are very experienced looking out to six months. We dont see anything that looks problemat problematic, but even though it is only one data point that said hey, is there anything that starts occurring beyond the sixmonth period. They are flowing many years and several year long missions. I think its time we now look at it with the tools we got today to see if there is anything that changes over the sixmonth period to see if something continues to degrade in terms of human degradation. How important is it to simulate the mission and orbit that way. How close do you have to make it to a mars mission to be a value sn do you build in the communication delay and block the windows and dont get the look at earth. How do you design Something Like that sn. Its interesting. We have talked about that and we do things now and we do a lot of procedures now in the station that are autonomous where the crews do the operation without ground involvement. That was geared towards the environment with the time delay that doesnt allow the team to interact with the crew. We talked about taking away the windows and communication time. Its interesting to say go to mars. Thats an interesting dynamic already. How many marathons do you have to run before you are really ready to goa to a marathon or are you good enough running 10 or 18 miles and do the marathon when it comes time sn the trick is to not do so much. I dont know whose office it is, i didnt see the psychological issues as one of the issues. That is more of that. The mars 500 experience. They tried to definitely into this. There big challenges. We have good studies again on the behavioral aspect. If you look at the crew, between the human and where you are, you have pictures from the rovers looking back at the earth and this is one star among many. Thats a different psychological push. Thats important too in the way we talk about this. We talk about moving humans into deep space. We talk about it and think about it, going and investigating and coming back. That really starts changing the dimaamic. The investment in mars is so much, you dont top the do this as a onetime mission. You want to have the infrastructure and think about this as moving human presence off the earth into the solar system. I think they said it very well. Building the capabilities that are extensive as we go to mars. I always think about history and being a history major. You think about magellan and captain cooke or whatever. Somebody going to mars is going to have more contact with earth and the home port, if you will. Do you use the parallels as you inform your decisions about how to handle this sn. I think again historically we ought to discuss the differences when you do terrestrial voyages, you still have oxygen to breathe and you still have water you can breathe. You can bring food with you. You can grow plants. They started breaking the tight back to the planet. Thats a different dimension. You have to carry with you or have assurances and the environment of mars to generate oxygen. Can you get water out of the environment. You have to prove that some of those things and terrestrial exploration will be different. It wasnt quite the level of what we are doing here. We put a human in an environment that they cannot live on its own. We have to carry with it enough to keep the human alive and functioning. How much of that ability and by the way, if you have questions, feel free to come to the microphones. How much of the ability to live off the martian land do we have to prove before we put people on the surface sn. There has been a number of studies that show if you can institute resource utilization to get your water and get your oxygen you can get water and fuel and air to breathe. That shows a lot of mass problems. How much do you have to take with you and how much can you rely on when you get there. If we are going rely on the system, you want it to be there ahead of time. You want it to be reliable and be able to store the oxygen that you know is there. That would be the most proven step to go do. We are taking the first step here. That are would be advanced missions and multiple landings. The Autonomous Vehicles that you create or prove it if not create a story. Maybe we compared ahead of time that the other earlier explorers didnt have the capability. The environment is so harsh and so extreme. Again, the ideas that when you put the vehicles there, they ought to be generating resources to use when the mission follows. This constrained environment, we have to make sure everything we do is on to the next step. Lets do a demonstration with oxygen out of the martian atmosphere. You might want to build enough to use to play forward. As you paint that picture and i think you have done a nice job pulling together in a way that provides a cohesive narrative and i hope that plays well as you try to sell the program. Whats interesting about it, we all think of success with the deadline and if you dont set a date that is a failure. Building the interstate system, there is infrastructure and it doesnt have the same headline capability if you will, that the space had, but what it offers is sustainability. I guess its a long way to say the story. How can we convey the story. People who are less dialled into what nasa is doing right now. Or is that my job sn. Thats your job. Its really all of our jobs. We need to look at this and describe it in a way that makes sense. Look at this thing called veggie. It will grow plants in space. We brought a bunch of plants before. This is the first time we grew plants to eat. This is not for a science experiment to see how the plants will grow. Food to augment the diet. This is the beginning of starting to push us off of the earth into space to do things. Its a small thing, but it could be a big thing. If you can 3d print a pizza. Its roughage. I think you really did hit the nail on the head in terms of that. I get the excitement too. I want to get one mission and you can go. I dont know if we have the luxury to do that right now with budgets and forecast and where we are. We still can get there. We have to take successes in the steps along the way. Whether its growing plants, solar electric propulsion and better suits and a ride and better entry, descent and landing systems. You will have to paint it in the right context with the few power point charts we can. Thats the key. Huh three tries. One of the tries that is five charts in one. You get the sense that if you talk about it long enough and you can be a reality and the fundamental issue of dollars and cents here. If you take that vision, that narrative and you jive it with what the money is right now, when do we get to mars . Size somebody said last night, it will be 20 to 30 years and we have been saying it will be 20 to 30 years. If you do the math, im sure we will never get there. How do you reconcile that vision with what congress and the American People have put on the table for nasa sn. Again the way i lay it out and talked to them about it last week, we cannot do it at the same budget level we are at today. This is not going to work. And the current budgele the neat more than that. There is a modest increase and they need to show folks if we get the funding. Heres the advances and the pieces and show how they are not just doing a demonstration. If we make that, maybe we can continue to break that paradigm and get that funding to move forward. They are interested in doing this activity. There is tremendous capability and prove on the station, but can we start extending or expanding into the domain and do the kinds of things with the industry. Perhaps you see the Mission Director and work going to mars that is feeding forward. Along with the broader community, feeding into the missions. On our side, on the technology pieces that feed into it, that feed into it, thats the key. The cost of that is a larger number. I dont get the Current Mission and the science director doesnt get the science mission. We are advancing the humans into the solar system. We have to figure out a way we dont get it. We look at a way that holestically we do this. The challenge is big enough and wont be solved by a Mission Director. It has to be the whole of the agency and the whole of the international community. Getting to mars will be bigger than getting the nasa aas to work together. Is that accurate sn. Go ahead. Say who you are, please. Thanks. Steve brodie from isu International Space university. They help you along and one thing was the infusion of the significant private resources from individuals with deep pockets. Hopefully that will continue with the commercial prove. Do you see any other through conversations you have already had or sense whats out there. A major contribution from either individuals and companies and whatever that will really get that principal and give you more than what you got now. They just signed a space act agreement with the imagine and work down. They have been looking at engine work. So that has been the domain of the government and work on the new engine capabilities and some has been working on the private sector money. We did entering things that takes Carbon Dioxide from the removal system and combines it and comes off of the exelect roll sis of water and makes more as a waste gas. Instead of buying that, we didnt care for the and generated by the device. We will pay for the water generated on station. You dont get any pay. You will get paid for this period of time. Are there other models and find things they want that might benefit us. Dont assume it has to be the government. Sisimilar story and we see interest in high power solo electric propulsion not only for a targo tug and future expiration or moving the asteroid, but we see an interest in the spacecraft. Interest is good, but we think we can. Laser conference and usa orbit. For other Government Agencies and we wont speak about here. It has interest in the walk later. They can get the content up to the satellites. We think we can. Whats the right mix on that sn can we get to mars leveraging private sector ingenuity sn it will never be a Business Case for it. To what extent do you have to say hey, we have a need sn to what extent are they coming to need sn. Yes on some things. The replacement that we are dealing with. Other areas, maybe not. Perhaps its to the agency of landing on mars. I dont envision another space station. I see the private sector picking up the next picking up the next generation of space station and lower orbit. They will do that to generate the commercial products they learn and got to experiment with. Our space station today is a chance for them to experiment with what might be helpful in the pharmaceutical world and the drug world and biological world and materials world. They can see hey, there is something here that the microgravity environment gives me a different insight. We have been able to get transportation and its not cost prohibitive. They are talking about building laboratories in space and maybe a single Purpose Laboratory is a research environment. That is creating now a private sector infrastructure we can use and dont have to replicate any of that. Im hoping that you use the station to be the next piece. The station gives us a fighting chance to expose a broughture community beyond aerospace to the advantages of doing research. Having another years of station. Is it enough time for you sn you are talking about the time frame for what you want to accomplish. Years from now, you dont have the station and you will be wishing you had it there. You use what you can. I will use what i can, but it changed the environment for the commercial sector. 2020. We couldnt think at all. The focus was too short. The stability was not there. Just that change, four more years in 20 to 24, that changed the perception of what space is and how they can use space and the fact that we are doing the cargo flights. They can go and get private services to take cargo up and we will have the crew. They are saying this is not a foreign environment. We are willing to invest. When that going back to the question that was asked, when that Tipping Point changes, the private sector doesnt see this as something that was risky that only governments can do, they turn profit and lower the orbit and use resources in space, we start seeing a much broader base to build the kind of things we need. It was hard to regain confidence and the academic world too after all that happened at the end of the program. And they were slowly i think getting that back again. Again, they are skeptical and its the stability thing. As you talked about being sustainable and building plants and processes that can take the storms that come when we have the sequester and the program falls apart. We dont get a revector and start all over again. We have a plan that is making measurable progress and thats how we ultimately get to mars. We have a question over here. Thank you. My question has to do with the slide that has been shown twice with the proving Ground Missions. Those are beyond the orbit and ascend 1 to 12 months. I am interested in the side of things. Is there a plan in place for a proving Ground Mission of 6 to 12 months and if so, what does that plan entail sn. We are thinking about again in the lunar space around the vicinity around the moon, a crew capability and habitation. I dont see that as a module per se that they attended, but that would be the module we would use on a mars class mission. The idea is to take this system that we work on the space station and put it into a space station. There is a lot of interest in the community about doing lunar surface activities and it is a base to do the activities. You can get view times of the south and north pole and do a lot of fellows and we have driven rovers in space station in california that look at how we deploy on the far side of the skmoon you can do that with the facility in deep space. The other thing if you think about it is prepositioning hardware around mars. You will launch the component with support system and it spends a year to get out there in a har