For emmett tills murder, and that haunts simeon. Lonnie bunch, thank you. My pleasure. We have much to talk about today, and i thought we might begin with something thats very close and very personal in your memories,s and thats just a description of your mother and your father. Well, my father, he was what we call kind of hard man. Fair. Someone thats tough but fair. Thats the kind of man he was. He loved farming. He was honest. They found out most people that he worked for in his early years that he was an honest man. If it didnt belong to him, he didnt bother it. He was a hard worker and he enjoyed to see when cotton would begin to grow in mississippi, he just became excited. And i couldnt figure out why. But thats the kind of man he was. He enjoyed the farming and told my mother, said, hey, i was born and bred in mississippi. Mississippi im going to die. Now, my mother on the other hand, she was different. She was raised in hazel hurst, mississippi, below jackson. I think when my dad proposed to her she told him about, i dont know how to pick cotton. But i think they met in memphis. Memphis was the headquarters of the church of god in christ. She heard my daddy deliver ray message there. Believe it or not, her parents lived in sumner, mississippi, where the trial of emmett till was taken. Why she was in memphis she whereas teaching school. Back in those days a few africanamerican you didnt need a College Degree to teach school. She was teaching there and she moved back to sumner to be near my dad. Thats where they got married in sumn sumner, mississippi, in 1925. She was an easy woman. She would sing. Every day she would be Singing Church songs. Oh, she was something. You know, with four boys at that time, she had four day boi boys the house. Im sure we had done something wrong, we asked, mama, when are you going to whip us . Thats how easy she was. We just when mom would leave the house we would be afraid that something would come out of the woods, a bear or something. But when she was around the house, we wasnt afraid of anything because she was always moving, always busy. She would do anything to protect her children. She was somebody. Last year you published a beautiful book simeons story about the emmett till case and how it reverberated throughout your life, even right up to the present day. I thought we might use start our conversationing with just some reflections from you about how, after this span of time, you came to choose to write that book. Well, one of the reasons, i would be watching certain documentaries about emmett till and i would see things that they would represent that wasnt true and i would get very upset. My wife every time i would do that, she would say, why dont you write your own book. Finally, after a couple of years of trying to persuade me to do it, i decided to write my own book and to tell what happened at the store. To tell the world what happened in my bedroom. To correct the myths and inaccura inaccuracies. Theres so many out there. And one of them that really cut to the heart where they said that his cousin that would be my brother maurice and i dared him to go into the store and Say Something to the i wrote the book to correct inaccuracies. One reporter said he helped my dad escape mississippi in a coffin. S so i asked the question, he had three sons at the time. How did they get out of mississippi . Thats my purpose of writing the book, to correct history and to get the facts out. Let me take you all the way back. I know youve had the opportunity to talk about this story on various occasions. I appreciate your willingness to do it in this context also. Let me take you back to the summer of 1955. Youre about 12 years old . 12 years old. And its late in the summer . Late in the summer. Kids are never 12. Theyre always 12 and 11 months. So i was a month away from my 13th birthday. You only give your correct age if youre past 50. I think you have an october birthday, dont you . October 15th. So the cotton harvest is about to come on. The beginning of the harvest, late august. Emmett arrived at my home on a saturday and we started picking cotton that monday. You wrote in the book about you felt a great deal of excitement anticipating the visit by emmett and by other members of your extended family. Can you talk about how you thought about that visit and what it meant to you as a 12yearold. Once we found out that emmett and wheat elle was coming to mississippi, that was something. We just get so much joy to see someone from the north to come down to visit, tell us about life in chicago in the north. Oh, just full of excitement. We wanted to show them theres things we did in mississippi to have fun and whatnot. We just couldnt wait until he got it there. When he arrived, we werent disappointed because hes a great story teller. He told us about chicago. It was so great that some of the things he told me about chicago, lincoln park and that area, even today we take our sunday School Picnic at lincoln park and north avenue beach every summer. And i heard it first from emmett. And you had been to chicago. I had been there but never to lincoln park. So you had made a trip up as a child. Yes. I think it was in early 47. I stayed with my aunt. Emmett lived in the basement, he and his mom and her husband la morse. I spent about two weeks here. One of the great memories of being here. 2 00 p. M. Liam ma would gather emmett and i, said we needed a nap. We was tired. We werent tired. But that was it up north, you had to take a nap in the evening. Tell me about emmett and wheeler on the farm and what you set about doing the next few days and how you welcomed them. After he told us about chicago, about river view park, i just couldnt believe a park would be that big. I heard it from him. When i saw it, the first time, i said, man, he just couldnt explain it how beautiful it was. Of course it shut down in 1967. Many of us cried because it was such a wonderful place. We talked and then my mother decided whos going to sleep with who. Emmett and i shared a bed. My bedroom theres two beds. My Brother Robert is in one of the beds. That monday morning its time to go to the cotton field. Of course emmett, he asked my dad could he go. My dad said yes, thinking he got to be out of his mind. I had four years seniority from the age of 8 to 12. It was a hot job. But we showed him what we had to do in miss. One of the things we showed you swim in mississippi. You dont just jump in the water. The fist thing you do is you run the snakes out of the water. Then you go in. Swim as long as you want. Make sure the snakes are out. Because back in those days we were taught that snakes didnt bite in the water. And we believed that. But i found out later thats not so. We did what we do in mississippi. We went down to one of our neighbors house. Probably had a half acre of watermelons. We taught him how to borrow some watermelons. And we each had one. He thought that was wonderful, you know. Then after that, that wednesday a lot of people think that on that wednesday we went to the store and that the men came to our house that same night. But that wednesday he wanted to go to we had picked cotton all day. We wasnt bored as someone said, that we was bored and we had stole that day and went and took money. I said, get out of here. He wasnt even there. He claimed he helped emmett steal my dads car. As a matter of fact, i think i read that false account that they even took the car while your dad was preaching and went into town. My tads last sermon in mississippi was in 1949. For some reason he just stopped preaching. The reason he came to chicago that summer was he was invited to deliver the eulogy for one of his old parishioners. So we went to this little store, and a lot of things happened. A lot of things in history that isnt true. So its the end of the day on wednesday, and this would be the 25th now i guess. 24th. You were out that morning picking cotton. Picking cotton. Can you take me kind of through the day from there on and how that fateful day took its course. Well, in the morning we get up, have a pretty good breakfast. No cereals. You wouldnt last an hour in the hot sun with cereal. Emmett went to the cotton fields that monday. He came home, told my mom, auntie, i cant stand the heat. He was at home all day. We picked cotton all day. When i mean all day, all day. From sun to not quite dusk. You had to have enough sun to weigh the cotton. We finished up and arrived at home. We had supper. Then at that time we decided to go to money. My brother maurice was driving, 16 at the time. Emmett and i, wheeler, young man crawford one of our neighbors. We went up to money, and maurice parked the car. I mean, we was in money less than 20 minutes. What you heard in history seemed like we were there two hours. Landfally g l l ly we walked the store. Wheeler went inside of the store first. Then emmett went in after wheeler. Wheeler came out, maurice sent me in behind emmett to make sure that he didnt say anything that he shouldnt. Because he just didnt know the ways of the south. The reason he did that, that sunday we had gone to money we bought some fireworks which was common to us but new to him. And he began to set them off inside of the city limits. And that was a nono. So that was the reason maurice sent me in there. And bhiel inside of the store, emmett didnt say anything out of line. There was no bubble gum stuff that we hear in history. He paid for his items, and we walked outside of the store. We standing on the south side of the door there, callan came out, before she could get off the wooden walk way, emmett whistled at her. Usually i try to nodemonstrate e whistle. Scared us half to death. We couldnt get out of town fast enough. It we ran to the car. Emmett saw our reaction, it scared him. We got in the car as fast as we could, and got out of town. So less than 20 minutes. Yeah. Probably 10 minutes. Let me ask a couple more point bzs about that. So many different stories are told about those few minutes. Your group was six so your brother maurice, yourself emmett till, Roosevelt Crawford and wheeler. Wheeler parker jr. And there was another young man. I want to say it was jamesper n pernell, but im not sure. Can you p paint a districtive picture of what you see in 1955 when you pull up to the doors of the bryant store. What it looks like in there. Well, we pull up. Outside theres a bench there where people a young man was playing ches playing checkers. Wasnt no white man black man. Trust me, there was no such thing. Inside of the store you really couldnt see inside too good. Youve got to get in because all the stuff in the front window and whatnot. The store floors are wooden of course. There was the counter. Couldnt just come in there and get in contact with the person behind the counter. As callan said that emmett came in, put her arms around her, asked her for a date, that never happened. But she made that up during the trial. Wasnt under oath. Because she knew that if she purgered herself, they could get her. Smart white boyz, her lawyer knew that. She said that so i tell people, in order for that to happen, you have to jump overthecounter. The other store mostly was closed that time of night. I dont know why. Okay, this is it. I learned later that on wednesdays all of the stores close early for some reason, i found out from my older brother on wednesday we could go to the doctor there on wednesday. So this is why our bryant store was the only one open. He wouldnt adhere to the rules of money, mississippi, because actually one day when we first heard about him, he made one of the store owners close his store because he told him, we are going to close on wednesday. And he didnt. He pulled his gun. I made him close. So this is why we was at bryants store. Ordinarily we wouldnt shop in his store. When you stepped inside when your brother maurice said, go in and check on emmett, when you stepped inside, the moment was not particularly charged with any atmosphere or any confusion or upset emotions inside the store . You just found emmett about to complete his purchase . No. He was just looking for stuff he wanted to buy. He purchased it and we left. But less than a minute. He didnif he said anything befo got in there, i have no idea. Only Callan Bryant could say that. You were with him when he completed his purchase. Yes. And we left the store together. That seemed completely routine. Yes. She came out behind us. Walking to her car to get something and he whistled at her. Your understanding is she came out to the car to retrieve something for to retrieve something, right. I had no idea what she was going to get. And he whistled and scared us. Scared us so bad. So you jumped in the car. We jumped in the car. Man, we got out of town. Someone said, why did you run . Its like breaking a window, if you break somebodys window, you get out of town. No idea that he would be killed for whistling at Callan Bryant. That didnt cross our mind. The only thing that crossed our mind is if we got caught wed receive a whipping. And maurice my brother, driving down this dark road, about seven miles long, eastwest, where we lived there was no northsouth highways. You couldnt travel north and south on a gravel road. You either there were dirt roads but it went so far so the wood line. That was it. We drove about two miles. We live exactly from the Railroad Tracks to our house was exactly three miles, according to my odometer. About two miles down the road, maurice saw this light in the rear view mirror. He thought it was callans husband chasing us so he stopped the car. They all jumped out of the car except me, ran through the cotton field trying to hide. I figured i could hide in the back seat. But it was our neighbors going home. But when they got back to the car, this is when emmett begged us not to tell daddy what happened. He didnt want to go home. We didnt want him to go home. We were having so much fun. Never dreamed that he would be killed for this. In that moment of the whistle and just after, did you move so quickly that you did you have any occasion to see if there was any reaction from mrs. Bryant at that moment . A long look. She did look. But when youre scared you dont pay attention. You know, its . History that we were standing out lallygaging, that he had pictures of his white girlfriend. That never happened. There was no such thing. There was no picture of anything. Then they said that we dared him to go inside the store. No. I said, my nephew that said he wasnt even there. But they got him on film, eyes on the prize, saying that. None of that happened. Its good to take some care as youre doing to bring forth your personal direct experience with this because, as youre saying, there are many stories that got attached to that moment that have nothing to do with what actually happened. And one of them was as you said, this reporting that some of you had sort of put emmett up to this provocative gesture, other reports that he had photos of white girls in his wallet. No. If he had them, he didnt show them to us, you know. But they try to make out that he was i said, no. None of that happened. But its in history. Im trying to correct it. Exactly. So you get back home and theres aend el enen enend gentle, cons it quiet. Unusually quiet. We just didnt want him to he felt daddy was going to send him home. So it was unusual quiet. Went to bed, get ready for the next day. You mentioned in your book theres a you say a neighbor girl. I dont know how old she was who the next day or maybe no. The next day. Next day, right. She was 16 at the time. She told us, because her brother not her brother. Her uncle apparently told his family what happened. And she told us the next day, said, yall are going to hear some more about this. We know these people. And of course we was apprehensive maybe the first day. But after thursday passed, then friday passed, then nothing happened. We forgot all about it. And by saturday saturday we were getting ready to go to greenwood. First you secure a ride. Man, it was something. Its Christmas Morning in august to go to greenwood and to enjoy the footlong hot dog, the mall, go to the movies. It was something. From 6 00 p. M. To 12 00 midnight we would be in greenwood, mississippi. Mostly on one street, johnson, street. And i think your older brother maurice was sort of in charge of the car that night. Maurice had our car so i secured a ride with Roosevelt Crawfords brother, john crawford. And maurice, wheeler and emmett was in the car together with roosevelt. But we all wound up at the same spot, johnson street. And did you all come back in those same arrangements . We all got home around the same time. Everything shuts down at 12 00 midnight. And we went to bed that night, just like any other night. But then within an hour, a couple of hours, our world was turned upside down. It was neve tr the same again. Dthe men came to the house about 2 00 a. M. , i dont know the exact time. But somewhere in it that vicinity. Of course the house was four bedrooms, wheeler the first house was on the west side of the house where wheeler was sleeping. They wept in there. Theyre waking wheeler, said, this is the wrong boy. Were looking for the fat boy from chicago. They marched around to my bedroom. I heard the noise. The loud talking. I woke up and saw these two white men standing at the foot of my bed. One had a gun, flashlight. We found out it was j. W. He ordered me to lay back down and go back to sleep. He made emmett get up, dress, and marched him out to the truck. A lot of things happened before they marched hip out because i still didnt know what was going on. When my mother came in there, she was half talking and half pleading with them to leave him alone, that she would give them money to leave him alone. Alone. Roy kind of hesitated when they heard money, you know. But j. W. Meyer, he didnt hesitate at all. Before he left my bedroom, he asked my daddy how old was he. Of course at the time my daddy told him he was 64. J. W. Said, if you tell anybody about this, you wont live to see 65. They marched emmett out. Emmett didnt say one word. Your mother kind of knew somehow maybe. She knew how low those segregationists were. I didnt know. My dad knew, too. Once they marched him out to the truck a lady responded, yes. I heard, who was it . We believed at that time it was Callan Bryant. Nothing has happened in 56 years to cause me to change my mind. I still believe it was her. I will go to my grave believing that. She has a chance to rebut that, but she chose not to. And they drove off. And we never saw emmett alive again. But in that house that night, i never went back to sleep. My mother, she ran to neighbors, tryinged to get them to help. They wouldnt get involved. Mr. Chambliss with a son named bruce. But she came back to the house and all my dad could say was hmm, hmm, hmm. Couldnt call the police. We didnt have a phone. There was no police. You had to get ahold of the sheriff. He wasnt going to do anything until the next day. My mother was half crying, half talking. She finally told my dad, i cant stay here another night. And he had to get up a