Conversation2027488900. That is for eastern and central time zones. If in the pacific or mountain 88901. Nes, 20274 you can also post questions and comments on our facebook page. Facebook. Com cspanhistory. Mr. Leonard, thank you for joining us this afternoon. Mr. Leonard it is my pleasure to be here. Host lets start with where is andersonville . For someone who is not aware of andersonvilles significance, where does it fall . Mr. Leonard it is important to start with this idea that military prisoners and prisoners of war are often left out of the mainstream telling of the war. Quite frankly, there are no winners in this story. This is not a battlefield. It is something entirely different. It is a valor and honor. Those concepts take a different form here. In many respects, in a standard telling of war, there is a knowledge meant there is an acknowledgment yes, they are prisoners of war, and then you move right back to the battles. Often, and addressing the story, there is an acknowledgment of it, and then no detail, and you move on. Andersonville has a name brand recognition. The public often doesnt know any of the details beyond the name and that something unusual took place there. Host lets start with the basics. When was it built . What was its purpose . Mr. Leonard in the fall of 1863 , as the Exchange System of the previous two years falls apart, due to the presence of black soldiers in the field, and the question over how to treat black soldiers, the confederacy is faced with a problem. They have been consolidating their prisoners, holding them primarily in the richmond area. Thousands, 10,000 prisoners in richmond has a drag effect on the community. Resources are going in to maintain the prisoners. If you are in the Confederate Army, or the government, you are looking at those resources, they should go to the army to fight the war. If you are civilian, you are thinking to yourself, my family is hungry, why am i having trouble getting food . And then, prisoners in Richmond Richmond is one of the primary military targets of the war, there is a lot of fighting around the city having Union Soldiers in richmond makes that target even more attractive. The solution was to move the prisoners away. In november of 1863, there is this idea that southwest georgia is a very safe, insulated place, far from the fighting. It is serviced by the Railroad System of the south, and this is an agricultural breadbasket, food should be readily available. Officers come here and locate a site. In that expedition to find a site, some of the concepts that we consider this idea of not the orders to locate a prison, specify an area that is essentially 100 miles north and south. Between fort valley, georgia and albany, georgia. Those are fairly big immunities. You will notice the prison did not typically end up near them. They do not necessarily want the prison close to them. There are 20 People Living at the andersonville station, the train start train stop here. Those people do not have political power. There are willing landowners who are absolutely ready two of them make the deal. They are getting on paper, they are supposed to receive a rent of about 50 per year from the confederate government for leasing their property to build this massive facility. It is envisioned as a 1600 acre acre square a 16 designed for a capacity of some 60008000 prisoners, essentially the number of those being held in richmond. Private corporal sergeants. Enlisted prisoners. The intention is to move them from richmond here. Construction begins in early 1864, and by the end of february, prisoners are en route and arriving here. And the prison comes into being. Host 600010,000 prisoners was the original intent, how many prisoners eventually ended up there . Mr. Leonard at its height, the onetime capacity in august 1864, there are over 32,000 u. S. Soldiers being held inside this prison. By that time, the original stockade had a 10 acre expansion. That is built in the month of june and opened on the first of july. Host mr. Leonard, also, if you have that many people in such a confined space, what is living like there, and what happens to the prisoners threre . There . Mr. Leonard this is the forested part of south georgia. The original 1600 stockade was built of posts that were square d and fit tightly together. The interior the first prisoners that arrive described as a place where construction debris is clearly everywhere. There are stumps, branches. It is a very disturbed place. There is no shelter. Prisoners improvise shelter out of the debris that is present. One of the routines of the prison operation is a wood gathering detail daily. When you are gathering that d, you are looking for two thing purposes. Obviously, all this fire wood for cooking, but larger pieces of wood and castoffs of debris is shelter making material. Host dont forget, if youre watching a home and want to contribute to the conversation, again, now is the time to do so. If you want to call, 2027488900 for those of you in the eastern and central time zones. If you live in the mountain and pacific time zones, 2027488901. If you want to tweet at us, you can do so. Do so at cspanhistory. You can also post on our facebook page. Spanhistory. cs mr. Leonard, lets pretend i am a prisoner coming to the prison, what is my day like . Mr. Leonard in the 14 months of the present operation, the answer to a question changes to changes drastically. For those initial prisoners who arrived in late february 1864, it seems strange when you know what comes later. They see andersonville as an improvement. It is better than belisle at richmond. It is an improvement. The weather in south georgia seems nicer. They have a change of venue. They are kind of excited about the opportunity. As prisoners arrive, every prisoner that arrives here and leaves here does so on the train. The train is integral to the story. When you are offloaded at the train station, the train itself, the train tracks, and the train station are almost half a mile to the west of the main prison compound. Some prisoners referred to it as there is a march that some prisoners referred to as 800 pages to help. Hell. Outside of the gates, closer to the main compound, you are counted out, assigned into detachments and squads. Roll call is a critical part of the daily experience of the prison. Roll call is how the confederate command determines how many prisoners they have, and what their disposition is. They are counting the number of prisoners in the hospital, inside the stockades. Theyre making daily lists of the number of prisoners that arrive, who transfer out, and who die. They separate that out from the number of people who die in the hospital and inside the compound itself. Host as far as being with the general population, give us a sense of Health Conditions were they clean facilities . Give us a sense of what living was like in that front. Mr. Leonard one way to start with that is the hospital. In 14 months, theres always a hospital. It is in three different locations, and there is a fourth adjunct to that. Just for the prisoners, there is a separate hospital facility close to the train tracks. That was a compound with two frame stone structures. Where the prison hospital starts is inside the compound itself. There is a sequestering area with tents and separate toilet facilities. By may, the confederate command has realized is not a good idea, it is not working very well. They moved to the prison hospital downstream of the just to the southeast. That is a compound that is fenced and has temps as hospital wards. Livingerception is that out of the prison compound and next to the stream will be a healthier space. It is important to note that the stream they move it next to is the stream that flows through the prison compound itself. Again, as originally built, the branch square, the enters the middle and west side of the compound, flows through the wall, and the creek is the single most important feature of the present. It is the plumbing. The intention is prisoners will collect clean Drinking Water at that rest west side of the prison, in the middle section of the prison, perhaps they will bathe and clean themselves in the creek. And on the downstream side, the creek is channeled into a structure that is a toilet. The intention of all of this is the flow of the creek will flush the toilet. The success of that is designed on an understanding in the 1860s of germs and bacteria, which is to say, no understanding of that at all. What they dont know when they do this is they have created the perfect breeding ground for dysentery. Host we can engage in this later, only because we have calls lined up for you. Lets start with paul in murfreesboro, tennessee. You are on with eric leonard, go ahead. Caller my question is why does andersonville have such a Bad Reputation nationally in the overview of the civil war prisoners with regards to our myra, which had a very severe death rate. 5 lesse just 4 or than andersonville, yet there was 20 of supplies available. There were railroads to surprise supply the prisoners, yet andersonville gets such a Bad Reputation. Mr. Leonard that is easy to answer. Andersonville is the deadliest place on american soil. 1400 soldiers die here in 14 months. That is a death toll that cannot be compared to any other place. The percentages have been used to create a sense of false equivalency. Perish in a year at l myra elmyra. There is a complex reason of why that occurs. In one single month at andersonville, 3000 people died. The scale of andersonville was stunning. Survivors spend the rest of their lives trying to come to terms to what happens to them , what happens to their friends. Families who lose their loved ones here struggle with, what was it for . While 13,000 men die here, nearly 30,000 live. That is the bigger number. The survivors of this experience comes to an end really struggle with what does it mean. It is not a traditional battlefield, so there is not this sense of valor. In fact, prisoners of war, until the late 20th century, were considered to be cowards, failures as soldiers. That almost survivors guilt, is something that Union Soldiers struggle with. Host our next caller, connie from north carolina. Caller mr. Leonard, i have a question. I recently watched the ken burns documentary on the civil war. They stated in the document that the superintendent of the warden of andersonville was convicted of war crimes and hanged. I would like to know what his name was. Can you verify that for me, please . Mr. Leonard that is absolutely true. This is captain henry wurtz. He is assigned here in march of 1864. The command structure of the prison is in many respects dysfunctional by design. When you explain it and explore it, it takes no sense there is a kernel that commanded colonel that commanded the entire military complex there. This is a really big place. Thousands of confederate soldiers either moving through you have a colonel in charge of or that. Under him, you have a serious of departments. They are essentially all overseen by captains. For supplies, a commissary for food. There is a chief surgeon who oversees the hospital operation. Finally, you have a captain whose job is to oversee the operation of the prison. Separate from that, the guard forces that are here are georgia reserves, a form of militia. These are not combatready troops. These are teenagers, old men who have little to no training or discipline. Signed a signed duty as guards on the stockade, the captain has authority over them. When they are off duty, the authority falls to the commanders. Wurtz is often absolutely frustrated. The guards have no discipline, they dont follow orders. He complains about them constantly. His hands are tied with that command structure. He is dependent on the quartermaster for supplies, the commissary for food. That roll call that they are doing every day, once they have they forward the number of prisoners to the commissary, and the commissary officer then has to provide food into the prison. Food was delivered once a day. Henry wurtz is still on station , still here in the first week of may of 1865, as the prison is essentially blown to the wind. The colonel gives the last command of the complex. He fled to florida the week before. Henry is still here, and that leads to his arrest on may 7, 1865. Heat is transferred to chattanooga, and finally to washington, d. C. After his arrest and the transport period, his escort, at one point in chattanooga, turned him over to the federal guardhouse in chattanooga. That was a mistake. When the captain, who is escorting him, comes back, he has been beaten. He has been recognized by the men who were once in his care. During his transport to washington dc, they end up shaving the beard off of his face so he is less recognizable. 30,000 men live through this, and they recognize him immediately. They are the ones, in trying to figure out who to blame, there is a larger command structure, but prisoners do not see that. They seek henry wurtz every day. They tell stories of the dutch captain, one of his many nicknames. He is tried in a military tribunal in washington, d. C. From august of 1865 to the end of october. He is put to death november 10, 1865. He is often described as the only confederate soldier to be put to death or tried for war crimes. That is not true. He is absolutely, positively the most famous. By the time of his execution, he the third confederate captain to be tried and executed for war crimes in 1855. Host mr. Leonard, we are asking people to give comments and questions on facebook as well. Claire larson writes and on facebook saying there was a movie called andersonville and asked if it was an accurate portrayal of the Legal Proceedings that followed the war, and if it accurately convey the true nature of the internment. Mr. Leonard there are two films about us. One, tnt did in 1996 miniseries about the present. It focuses on prison life and dramatizes a fairly early infamous moment in the prison s operation. The camp raiding, prosecution, and later execution of a group of prisoners known as the raiders. Separately, there was a stage play in 1970 that was turned film starring William Shatner called the andersonville trial. That was the dramatization of the trial. The play and then the film about the trial are inspired and drawn out of the trial transcript that was published by the u. S. Government in 1869. The tnt miniseries was a threehour miniseries that explores the prisoner experienced by drilling down to something it is a 14 month story, and they drill down to something that is over and done one month before the worst moments of the prisons history. It is a very dramatic story. The story of the raiders ultimately has a very nice, neat narrative arc. A beginning, a middle they are tried and captured and finally, their execution. WayConfederate Army all the to richmond has okayed that. It has a nice beginning, middle, and end, but the truth is the prisoner of war experience, no one wants to watch it. You are dirty, hungry, you have to go to the bathroom there is a lot of sitting around and waiting on a fate that is very uncertain. The tnt film, the background detail is stunning. When i watch that, that is what i key into. It is a very accurate portrayal. In the background of how people were trying to live here, struggling to survive. Host we are learning about the andersonville prison and its war in the civil role of the civil war. Our guest is eric leonard. You can call in and ask him questions. The numbers will be on the screen. You can tweet us and facebook us too. Lee in winchester, virginia, thank you for holding on. Caller hi, mr. Leonard. I had a great great uncle who was brought to andersonville. Im wondering, its an open park, i believe. The dates and times you are able to go to andersonville, and, are you able to get records and copies of your ancestors being there and the burial sites . Mr. Leonard as a u. S. National park site, andersonville is open to the public daily. It is closed only three days a year, and that is thanksgiving, christmas day, and new years day. The grounds are open from 8 005 00. The museums hours are 9 00 to 4 30 daily. Inside the National Prisoner of war museum, the park maintains a database of people buried in the National Cemetery, and that includes the andersonville dead. There is a listing of the andersonville prisoners, the dead and the survivors. There also partial listings of prisoners of war. Prisoners of war of other euros and conflicts. Eras and conflicts. We do not have original records here. The original records are at the National Archives. The most important historic document for documenting Union Prisoners of war is their Service Record. Again, the National Archives has that. Some of the records are becoming digitized and easier to access than writing or emailing or going to the National Archives. For, especially the survivors, but even the dead, in that Service Record was a slip that was done well after the war. It is a memorandum. A prisoner of war record. It identifies the capture date of the individual. Oftentimes, there are the circumstances of the capture. It lists the various places where they were held prisoner. One of the important things to remember is with most Union Prisoners held andersonville, this is one of at least three, sometimes as many as six prison facilities that they are held at in the space of one year. It is the biggest and most famous, for a lot of reasons, but it is not the only one. Those National Archive records are the first source. During a visit, you can use the database to look up a person. Often, we do have copies of the Service Record or other items. This was an enlisted prison. What is extraordinary about these prisoners, theyre not famous people. They are the workingmen of the u. S. Army, the marine corps, the navy. They are privates, corporals, sergeants. Hey are ordinary men what is extraordinary about them is how ordinary their lives are after this thing that they experienced. This san jose, california, is david. Go ahead. Caller good morning. I was told that there was a medical doctor who would examine the prisoners before they were admitted to the camp, and that supposedly he was a freemason. Were any, if there free maces among the union , and they mader that known, he would extract them from the line and they were no longer a part of the population at an