Name is Kevin Butterfield good evening everyone my name is Kevin ButterfieldKevin Butterfield, the mount lady Ladies Association that rescue mount vernon in the 1850s which continues to protect and preserve it today. I wanna welcome it to their conversation about George Washingtons farewell address. On september 19th 1796 drones in announce to the world that he would not seek reelection to the presidency. His letter to friends and citizens offered some of the most thorough, thoughtful, even inspiring advice which had everyone given to the American People. More than a few genuine warnings were concluded there as well. A good number of the hopes and fears that remain with us as the nation are discussed in this now 225yearold document. Much of what we debate and discuss in 24 century american politics is addressed here in one form or another. In recognition of the 225th anniversary of this document, we brought together a an incredible lineup of talented scholars to reflect on the relevance of the farewell dress today. We are joined by john avlon, the commentator senior political analyst, anchor on cnn, appearing on new day every morning. He is the author of books including the one we are discussing today, washingtons farewell. A book on Abraham Lincoln coming out next february. His work is going to be important to our conversation here tonight. As will the work of one Lindsay Chervinsky an expert on the cabinet, president ial history, president ial institutions, a senior fellow for the President University at southern fellow university. A professorial lecturer at Public Affairs of George Washington university. Also an open rank fellow for the International Study for jefferson studies at monticello. Doctor Lindsay Chervinsky is the author of the awardwinning book the cabinet, George Washington in the American American institution. Joseph j. Ellis its one of the nations leading al author of more than a dozen books, alice was awarded the Pulitzer Prize for founding brothers the revolutionary generation. He won the National Book award for american sphinx, his biography is thomas jefferson. His most recent book, the cause, the American Revolution and its discontents comes out tomorrow. All of our guests are great friends of mount vernon. We are so pleased to be able to offer signed copies of the books. Please look for links in the chat that can help you find those and also please feel free to visit us anytime at mount vernon dot org. Joseph ellis, john p. Avlon, and Lindsay Chervinsky thanks for joining us. Thank you for having. Yes we are here to discuss an important moment in American History it is the farewell address. I gave the tiniest a preview of what it is. Imagine someone is walking into the conversation right now. What is the farewell address . John i will turn to you first. What is this text . It is americas first civic scripture it. Was the most wildly printed document in American History, including the declaration of independence for around the first hundred years of the republic. It is the sum total of wisdom that George Washington had accumulated in his life of war in peace, as president. He put down, working first with James Madison and then primarily with Alexander Hamilton as a warning to his friends and fellow citizens how he addressed them, of the forces he field could rail the democratic experiment going forward. It is one of the most prescient irrelevant documents you can imagine. Even though it fell out of favor for a time when it is read today it is a stark warning among other things of the things we will call hyperpartisanism, excessive debt, foreign wars, and also suggest some of the pillars of liberty. Things we can draw upon to avoid those traps. And remembrance of the these are a lot of teams who are gonna explore tonight. Let me turn to you, lindsey. George washington created this text. Although as john mentioned there were other authors. Can you tell us a little bit about the years leading up to this . This is a moment where he decides not to be president any longer. As a scholar of washingtons presidency, could you set the stage of those last month or days of the washington presidency as he is thinking about these addresses . I think the most important place to start is washington really didnt want to stand for a second term at all. He had wanted to leave office for a couple of years and then hightail it as quickly as he could. He didnt particularly like being president because he had to be away from home, he had so much stress and pressure on every single action that he took. He knew that every step would establish precedent for those who came after him. He did not like criticism. He was worried that this reputation that he had spent decades building would be damaged by a poor choice or import action. He also had a real commitment to be importance to him leaving office while he was alive he felt very strongly that the American People needed to choose his successor, that it could not come through death. Let the process of transition and election and the peaceful transfer of power had to be learned and practiced and cultivated. He was determined to try to oversee that. That was his mindset leaving up to 1796. He had set his mind quite firmly that by early 1996 he decided in february and march of 1796, while Alexander Hamilton was in philadelphia in front of the supreme court, they had a conversation about this, and how the process would go. They then sat on it until september partly to keep the election season as short as possible. Washington finally published in the newspaper in september, to reach the maximum number of people. To make it clear that he was speaking not to congress or to a Different Branch of government. We will be spending most of our time talking about the text itself, the kinds of themes that are defined their. What would you add about the origins that led up to the creation of this document, that you might want to share about washington before 1796 . I would venture to guess, john, as a student of a modern president s, and you might contradict me. No president in American History did not want to be president more than George Washington. Not only did he not want a second term, he didnt want a first term. And when he was going up to new york, he felt like a prisoner going to jail. And he really meant it. If you read the washington correspondence during the president ial years, almost half of them have to do with mount vernon. Thats where he wanted to be. He really did. All of the views of the presidency are shaped by 20th century perception. Washington did not regard the presidency as the capstone of his career. He regarded it as an epilogue, one that he wished he didnt have to do. The great thing he did was win a war. I think thats true of all four of the first four president s. Adams is great things before the revolution, to bring it into meaning. Jeffersons was the declaration. Madisons was the constitution, the convention of the federalist papers. All of them didnt think about the presidency as the great moment in their lives. And washington was in aficionados exits. In surrendering his sword, or even before that in new berg, refusing to become dictator, and then a few months later in baltimore when the capital no, annapolis, sorry, where the capital was. The surrender of his commission, when he did that, george the third said that that cant be. If he does that, he will be the greatest man in the world. He did, and for that moment, he was. What they were thinking, and jefferson writes about this afterwards, that he is there and i think jefferson quote some of washingtons speech in annapolis, as a matter of fact. Jefferson says that one man saved us from faith. They were thinking of caesar, they were thinking of chrome will. Subsequently, we can think of napoleon, we can think of mao, we can think of castro, we can think of a variety of leaders who never want to leave office. But i wont mention one who might still be alive in american politics. The president , he said that its often discussed as a two term president. That is ratified as a constitutional amendment in 1951, i believe. The real precedent is in a republic, all the leaders, no matter how indispensable, are disposable. That you do not die in office like a monarch. That was the real precedent. I will conclude here, the dominant thing we need to remember is that this was not ever delivered as an address. Now, both of our Committee Members know that. It wasnt a speech, it was an open letter to the American People that first appeared in a philadelphia paper, and i think its in the New Hampshire paper that gives at the title, the farewell address. The initial reaction to the address was, oh my god, he cant leave us. The american effort had not existed without him at its head. It was like the father saying to the children, you are on your own. And that was a trauma. Nobody thought he was ever going to retire. They presumed he would just win elections until he died. And again, he couldnt wait to get back to the place where you are sitting at. John, jill referenced something, the stepping away from power in annapolis. You thought about this in your book. This is not the first bit of advice that washington shared widely with the nation. Could you tell us a little bit about washington back in 1783, and how he also shared his guidance to the nation . Its called the circular letter, i think. The circular address to the states. That was originally called his farewell address. Really, i didnt know that . Is that true . Yeah. Youre not making that up . Nope. No, true story. And whats fascinating about that is there is broad continuity. But most importantly, with the power of the gesture itself, the simple act of voluntarily relinquishing power itself was revolutionary. And the quote that joe was referring to is the epilogue to my book. I think it so perfectly crystallizes washington throughout his career, but particularly as it culminates in a farewell address. Jefferson said, the moderation of a virtue in a single character prevented this revolution from being closed as mothers have been, by a subversion of the liberty it was intended to establish. And certainly, those were the stakes in 1783, as well. In the normal course of events, the military leader would displace the tyrant and then become a tyrant himself. So talk about the prevalence of ancient roman and greet precedent on this young republic, this was a real cincinnati step he took. He was voluntarily relinquishing power to return to his farm. It was completely genuine. And the advice he gives in 1783 is very similar, albeit seen through the prism of political fights he saw as president and the fights over the ratification of the jade treaty and Foreign Policy. But he says, first of all, this is not a time for celebration. Its a time of real responsibility. The revolutionaries one, but now we have to establish the republic and show the world that we can establish a democratic republic on a scale never before seen. Right . Because among other things, it was wisdom that a democracy couldnt exist. And if he could, it could work in a couple of swiss cantons. It would never work in a country is because the 13 colonies. He warns about the need for national unity. He was fighting with the Continental Congress all throughout the war because they couldnt find a sense of collective resolve or focus on the common good. They didnt want to levy money to support the troops. He said that we need to have discipline and focus on a sense of unity. And to really think as citizens. One of the important points is independents and freedom can be a state of nature. Liberty requires responsibility, and that is what some excuse me, i am just finishing a lincoln book right now. Thats what washington said in the 1783 address. And again in 1796. One of the things i can do tonight, and i hope they can start this now, is bring up a few of the short quotations that people can pull out of the farewell address. This one, i would like to bring up because as we were just discussing, if you read down to the bottom there, he refers to the fact that he is given this kind of advice before. But you see the warnings of a parting friend. He reminds us about the circular letter in 1783. This is the way that he begins. This is right after i dont member the exact phrase, here perhaps i should stop . Is that right . He has a few paragraphs, and then he says here perhaps i should stop, but then he goes on for many paragraphs longer to give some serious advice to the American People. When you see phrases like this, disinterested warnings, a parting friend, is this how does this fit with washington as leader and as president as youve come to study him . Washington really wanted to see himself as above party spirit or faction. He really did see himself as president for all of the American People. At least white American People. And he wanted to represent represent them, regardless of their party. That might be a little bit rose colored glasses. He certainly had some partisan biases by the end of his presidency, which he didnt necessarily want to admit. Because he felt like certain sides have been more critical of him, had stirred up domestic rebellions, things like that. But he wanted to see himself as above those things. And certainly, the most a political president had to be sure. Leaving office, that gave him more credence to do that. Had he still been in office, there would have been no way he would have been interested because he wouldve been standing for a third term. By leaving office, he put himself in that elevated position. He could claim to be disinterested, even if people dont necessarily agree with him. Whats fascinating about the reception to this farewell address is that people who are inclined to think well of him saw that i saw it as disinterested, as he had intended. Those who were inclined to see him as a more political actor, like jefferson, thought that it was very political. What would you add . How would you read that . I agree with what lindsey just said, and let me try to build on that a little bit. Political parties, the founders as a group, including washington, all regarded Political Parties as evil vultures that were floating through the political atmosphere. Jefferson even claimed, he said if i must go to heaven in a party, i would prefer not to go at all. They all talked that game. And washington believed in that game, and i think john adams is the only other president that did as well. They really regarded parties as a threat to the stability of the republic. And so in washingtons second term political scientists think that the creation of Political Parties is one of the major contributions the founders made to political thought, because it disciplines dissent and creates the possibility of a legitimate opposition, which is a good thing. Washington and adams were cognitively incapable of thinking of a Political Parties anything other than an evil intrusion. He could not see himself as the head of a party. You might think he is an anachronism. But he is a classical figure. And i would build on something again that lindsay said. In the second term, the aurora, they you will look up in textbooks and they will say, the opposing party that comes into existence is called the democratic republican party. Wrong. Its not called the democratic republican party, its called the republican party. The word democratic democracy is an epithet in the 18th century. It means mob rule. Democratic republican doesnt come into existence until 1860. Its tricky, because that party morphs into the democratic party, but its even worse than that. The federalists morph into the whigs and the whigs morph into the republicans. Its really tricky. But the aurora is the 18th century version of, john you might comment on this, fox news. And when they publish forged documents, forged british documents claiming that washington throughout the war was a traitor, he was trying to be Benedict Arnold and got beat to the punch by Benedict Arnold. This was just off the top stuff. And actually, among the people commenting on his farewell address was thomas paine who hated him because he didnt think washington got him out of france fast enough. He said, we must all devoutly pray for his imminent death. The criticism he was getting which is pretty funny, by the way, because he was famously an atheist. Thats true, he was. Henry payne, not washington. The level of partisanship in the 17 90s is comparable to what we are facing in washington now, okay . The press, and avalon, you have to listen to this. There was no rules for the press. All the news fit the print. Washington stands firmly against that whole thing. He thinks if you have any problems, you can just vote me out in the next election. But the level of partisanship in the newspapers in the 17 90ss scatological. And washington really cant understand it. He just doesnt understand it. And i think he is hurt by it. I think that he survives the french and indian war, he should have been killed when he was a young man. He should have been killed several times in the course of the war for independence. He wasnt even wounded. But they wounded him in his second term. They really got to him. And he couldnt wait to get out of there. I know we want to move into the discussion of his attitude towards political partisanship. I think the context is what i described in this specific