Transcripts For DW Conflict Zone - Guest Alexander Stubb 201

Marks the hundredth anniversary of its end. What is humankind learned from the great war. As it learned anything about. Nineteen eighteen not forgotten de w. s november focus. The opinion is on the brink n. T. E. U. Populists are making gains across the continent and britain could leave without a breakfast deal this week conflict zone is in proc where i have caught up with alex the fool my finnish Prime Minister has launched a campaign to become the next president of the European Commission can effects europe. Summer still well come to conflict zone thank you you have launched an unprecedented compared to replays on clothes at the president of the u. P. A. And commission you can paint program talks a lot about values quote if i were to say in one way why im running for Commission President it is values do you peon values and when you believe the European Space no i think actually European Values are global for me theyre universal so they have to do with human rights fundamental rights liberty liberal democracy rule of law equality and tolerance of for me these are inalienable they are part of who we are as human beings a lot of european if they are global lets talk about the vote. He said the e. U. Has links with regimes some of which. We talk about turkey he said and we are right too but never we talked about saudi arabia tell me something about saudi arabia what saudi arabia is obviously a Middle Eastern country very oil rich not democratic gave the right for women to drive cars only the past in the past few years and right now is in the middle of a journalist murder case. So what are the sanctions what are the ideas what is the reaction of the e. U. If you would have been the president today well i think the main tool that the European Union has basically are sanctions and obviously with russia we use them because they annexed the Crimean Peninsula and they have been intimidated in ukraine and then in every specific case we look at so legitimacy is useless if it case so there arabia yeah first thing you would do is to basically go through what has happened and on the basis of the evidence that you have you get the Member States together to clear this journalist enter the consulate and you never came out so there are no really miracles what happened there and no secrets what happened there thats why again whats about saudi arabia today from your perspective but from my perspective i think wed have to first get the Member States together then put a declaration and then decide in common on the basis of unanimity on something almost actions by you know i think personally if if this has been if this has been a organized official murder then action must be taken but we dont need to wait for that saudi arabia is responsible for Hundreds Of Thousands of victims Children Women in yemen its a brutal war against the civil population what should be the answer of the european union to words that Massacre Well Depends On which massacre youre talking about and by which country i think its very hard to really i think its very important very i think its very important to be principled when it comes to Foreign Policy you have to look at the whole situation in the middle east draw conclusions from that and then see what kind of relationship you have with saudi arabia european relations with saudi arabia are of course not as close for instance as the americans want american want to still there if it is still early as well in the human terran catastrophe in yemen. Yes so far has not stopped you peons Arm Shipments we are involved in europe with this in your opinion should those Arms Shipments be stopped i think you have to be very careful when it comes to Arms Shipment and i actually work as the Chairman Of The Board of the Crisis Management initiative which is mark the uk this is the nobel peace Laureate Center and we do a lot of work in yemen at this particular moment to try to do Peace Mediation and of course when it comes to arms it never helps its again a very concrete question still be stopped on not these arms yes or no actually it is not about concrete and its not that Black And White because it depends on very well it depends not depends on the arms that youre talking about theyre talking about Satellite Surveillance are you talking about the types of instruments i talk about radio with this option union is supporting hold on hold you have to be a little bit more pacific you have to be a little bit more specific than that the European Union is not providing arms it is Member States from the europeans or the video maybe the Member States that are doing it that name the name first which arms are you talking about and which countries are you know then i guess youre talking no but no you know this is the level of this if you are you prince so give me generalities start giving me some concrete start in those that arent you know about are you principally for or against support of saudi arabia arms or whatever it is its not i mean Foreign Policy im afraid is not that binary you have to look at it from a much broader perspective i think the key issue when we talk about values is what kind of values you stick to yourself and then you have to take those decisions on those principles so democracy dictatorship suppressing your own population or not being an aggressive country and regime or no these are the values and were talking about the values you want to defend in europe. So why not in saudi arabia why not in iran for example well i think in both cases you have to work with the country in question and then if you find in certain cases that theres a Blanket Breaking of these values then you stop the cooperation on iran on iran youre as you mentioned iran for instance i think there its very important that we stick to the nuclear deal that we did with iran and that we continue to work a constructively with the regime i think Nuclear Weapons are a question of the future of mankind and of course if you dont deal with those then whats the point of having values its also a Point Of Double Standards Iran is also involved in a lot of massacres is also involved in wars is also involved in syria where Hundreds Of Thousands civilians are not living anymore because iran is involved in that so again theyll use on one hand diplomatic relationship on one hand but to be more active and support these regimes how does this fit with your values while its of course they dont fit its very difficult to do and unfortunately we dont live in a world that we all expected would emerge after nineteen eighty nine where we will be relying on Liberal Democracy Social Market Economy and globalization the world is not perfect it will not be perfect but i think its very important that inside the European Union we work with these values and of course trying to then export those values through peaceful means we know that the European Union and the Member States are exporting arms the Sporting Relationship on the economic scale as saudi arabia or russia or Egypt Torture and murder show tries a massive scale and the us still doing businesses with those countries we are talking now about businesses these are the values of. Europe oh no they are not the values of europe the values of europe have to do with peace prosperity security and stability and were trying to work towards those every countries in the world is not going to be german french finnish Swedish British or anything for that manner but i think its very important that we continue to work on the basis of our values youre never going to get it Pitch Perfect i also must remind of the European Unionis the biggest aid donor in the world i must also remind of the European Union countries have this more full compensation of another things were talking to no its not its not that by now i think the way in which youre trying to present things i find it extremely simplified and Black And White it also doesnt that no i dont like dont do this in the world perspectives sorry or not they are not theyre not are not only without ever having the art of well youre not listening because youre interrupt me constantly so what im trying to say is that the world is not perfect if i had a choice we would be based on values having liberal democracy is a Social Market Economy and cooperate together piece by piece the world is becoming a better place do we stop corporation with everyone who doesnt agree with us no i dont think we know that we dont talk about cooperation no you try to make it Black And White the question is how intensively our European Countries and also the European Union for example supporting businesses trades and these are the governments and these are the ministers who are improving all these relation for example with a country like china now you will tell me again we are not china but you and the European Union and also your country you are supporting with coming there helping trade for your companies that these totally terences stadium and these governments are more in power than they were before how does this. Meche with the values we are talking about its definitely not a Perfect Match but i do think that trade and corporation is a way of bringing nations and to tease and areas closer together and my argument this that were starting to see a china which obviously does a lot of trade do we agree with the way in which they always do business no but i do not believe that we should stop doing that we support more the population in china or the author of tearing government if we are coming with a lot of gifts with a lot of Military Cooperation with trade who is really helped by this i think populations more than regimes because at the end of the day when it comes to Economic Growth for pleasure so much better off if you look at g. D. P. Per capita growth in china it is much greater than it was before when start trying to started openness you could argue that its a much more open society than it used to be but it certainly is different but the control is increasing the dictatorship is not decreasing and we have a real feel we can talk about thats russia. The relations with russia is a very complicated putting is still suppressing its own population there is still no democracy in russia russia has annexed crimea there is no sign that russia will leave that ukraine territory or stop supporting separatists in Eastern Ukraine this sanctions which the e. U. Has imposed on moscow do you. Think that they are working what are your suggestions about its actually pretty much the only instrument that we have with russia what you just said i think is absolutely correct and i do think that the European Union took a good and principled decision by pushing those sanctions and keeping them up my argument was of course when i was media given piece in georgia as a chairman of the o. A c but this is when russian. Foreign policy started to change and we started to see violence and grabbing on to territory again this is what we can do with russia i mean we have One Thousand Three Hundred kilometers of border with russia we know things too about how to deal with the russians i think sanctions are the best instrument that we have at this moment they are not working well i would argue that theyre working look at the g. D. P. Per capita in russia look at the konami growth and insulted as not changing the policy its true but you know what do you want us to do you do it by force but for me you were just earlier arguing that we should stop relations for instance with saudi arabia now when i say that now that now i know that i met relations with im not sure its never been a program where developed to speak at all anyway go ahead your question or lecture was europe as part of the pending on energy the live risk from russia if you had foreseen this wouldnt it try to wean itself off of Russia Energy deliveries instead europeans are building more pipelines and Russian Nuclear reactors thats what you call defending the European Values to be strong against russia no its actually called and Energy Dependency and i do think and i think youre absolutely right that we need to start moving towards more independence in energy and you need to have that as broadest possible but if you look for instance a Gas Distribution in eastern and Central Europe it would be impossible to cut off the pipelines at this particular moment. In your platform that state about migration you state we solved the worst Migration Crisis and now it is time to show all europeans that the situation is under control what do you mean by soul. In the sense that in twenty fifteen we had the biggest migratory for flow into europe since World War Two we were talking about A Million Two million Illegal Immigrants coming in and if you look at the figures in twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen they are now at the pre twenty fifteen level so it is much better uncontrolled than what is was sort of what does it mean solve the problem is still there you have the war in syria you have afghanistan you have refugees and by paying of turkey to keep the refugees three millions of them and thats what you are saying you so love the problem but again we must stop the illusion of utopia and that everything is perfect i think we have mitigated and in that sense solve the problem now its a question of how you had minister at the of course as you have read my program you will see that i have three proposals on how to deal with it in the future as well how can you say that something is so if at the same time you have three millions of refugees and you are dependent from a dictator who is suppressing his own population he is doing the bad work for europe and you are saying the problem is so now i think what i suggest also in my programme is three things one is to have Asylum Centers outside the European Union in order to be able to solve the problem and of course they should be e. U. Funded and based on the u. N. H. C. R. Secondly i suggest that we have it should have a stronger frontex ten thousand and then thirdly i think we should have humanitarian based the Silent Quote Us now will this solve the problem not completely but it will at least alleviate the pain and help it do i feel that the deal with turkey was the right one. Bubbly it had a time and a place do i like the turkish regime anetta dont know i dont do a like what they do no i dont but right now at this particular moment we dont have an alternative that means magic policy is. Something which has the same value like values. Dont understand your point dont know not what it is when you dont like what turkeys doing you dont like the government but you have to understand that we all have to understand this is pretty big policy its very pragmatic yes we try to find a solution to one of the key problems i think that we have in europe which is migration and i think we have been able to mitigate it quite well i think that we have to talk about the key problem which means africa which means some arab countries and then nothing is sold and therefore as you have read my program i also talk about the focus should be on investment in africa through years and years of course it will you know youre talking about you can pay and you approach for now you want to be the president in the next month were talking about now not in three four five years yeah but i mean to be quite honest lets be realistic i have a five Week Campaign and if i were to claim that ill solve the worlds problems right now that would be absolutely ridiculous i think. Not not at all credible so my argument is that what we need to do is to have more corporation for instance with continents such as africa not least because that continent is going to have four billion people inhabitants in Two Thousand And One Hundred so we have a lot of work ahead of us yes another if you are of one of your solutions from you can pay in vote we should establish a quota for humanitarian basis Prime Minister<\/a> has launched a campaign to become the next president of the European Commission<\/a> can effects europe. Summer still well come to conflict zone thank you you have launched an unprecedented compared to replays on clothes at the president of the u. P. A. And commission you can paint program talks a lot about values quote if i were to say in one way why im running for Commission President<\/a> it is values do you peon values and when you believe the European Space<\/a> no i think actually European Values<\/a> are global for me theyre universal so they have to do with human rights fundamental rights liberty liberal democracy rule of law equality and tolerance of for me these are inalienable they are part of who we are as human beings a lot of european if they are global lets talk about the vote. He said the e. U. Has links with regimes some of which. We talk about turkey he said and we are right too but never we talked about saudi arabia tell me something about saudi arabia what saudi arabia is obviously a Middle Eastern<\/a> country very oil rich not democratic gave the right for women to drive cars only the past in the past few years and right now is in the middle of a journalist murder case. So what are the sanctions what are the ideas what is the reaction of the e. U. If you would have been the president today well i think the main tool that the European Union<\/a> has basically are sanctions and obviously with russia we use them because they annexed the Crimean Peninsula<\/a> and they have been intimidated in ukraine and then in every specific case we look at so legitimacy is useless if it\rcase so there arabia yeah first thing you would do is to basically go through what has happened and on the basis of the evidence that you have you get the Member States<\/a> together to clear this journalist enter the consulate and you never came out so there are no really miracles what happened there and no secrets what happened there thats why again whats about saudi arabia today from your perspective but from my perspective i think wed have to first get the Member States<\/a> together then put a declaration and then decide in common on the basis of unanimity on something almost actions by you know i think personally if if this has been if this has been a organized official murder then action must be taken but we dont need to wait for that saudi arabia is responsible for Hundreds Of Thousands<\/a> of victims Children Women<\/a> in yemen its a brutal war against the civil population what should be the answer of the european\runion to words that Massacre Well Depends On<\/a> which massacre youre talking about and by which country i think its very hard to really i think its very important very i think its very important to be principled when it comes to Foreign Policy<\/a> you have to look at the whole situation in the middle east draw conclusions from that and then see what kind of relationship you have with saudi arabia european relations with saudi arabia are of course not as close for instance as the americans want american want to still there if it is still early as well in the human terran catastrophe in yemen. Yes so far has not stopped you peons Arm Shipments<\/a> we are involved in europe with this in your opinion should those Arms Shipment<\/a>s be stopped i think you have to be very careful when it comes to Arms Shipment<\/a> and i actually work as the Chairman Of The Board<\/a> of the Crisis Management<\/a> initiative which is mark the uk this is the nobel peace Laureate Center<\/a> and we do a lot of work in yemen at this particular moment to try to do Peace Mediation<\/a> and\rof course when it comes to arms it never helps its again a very concrete question still be stopped on not these arms yes or no actually it is not about concrete and its not that Black And White<\/a> because it depends on very well it depends not depends on the arms that youre talking about theyre talking about Satellite Surveillance<\/a> are you talking about the types of instruments i talk about radio with this option union is supporting hold on hold you have to be a little bit more pacific you have to be a little bit more specific than that the European Union<\/a> is not providing arms it is Member States<\/a> from the europeans or the video maybe the Member States<\/a> that are doing it that name the name first which arms are you talking about and which countries are you know then i guess youre talking no but no you know this is the level of this if you are you prince so give me generalities start giving me some concrete start in those that arent you know about are you principally for or\ragainst support of saudi arabia arms or whatever it is its not i mean Foreign Policy<\/a> im afraid is not that binary you have to look at it from a much broader perspective i think the key issue when we talk about values is what kind of values you stick to yourself and then you have to take those decisions on those principles so democracy dictatorship suppressing your own population or not being an aggressive country and regime or no these are the values and were talking about the values you want to defend in europe. So why not in saudi arabia why not in iran for example well i think in both cases you have to work with the country in question and then if you find in certain cases that theres a Blanket Breaking<\/a> of these values then you stop the cooperation on iran on iran youre as you mentioned iran for instance i think there its very important that we\rstick to the nuclear deal that we did with iran and that we continue to work a constructively with the regime i think Nuclear Weapons<\/a> are a question of the future of mankind and of course if you dont deal with those then whats the point of having values its also a Point Of Double Standards Iran<\/a> is also involved in a lot of massacres is also involved in wars is also involved in syria where Hundreds Of Thousands<\/a> civilians are not living anymore because iran is involved in that so again theyll use on one hand diplomatic relationship on one hand but to be more active and support these regimes how does this fit with your values while its of course they dont fit its very difficult to do and unfortunately we dont live in a world that we all expected would emerge after nineteen eighty nine where we will be relying on Liberal Democracy Social Market Economy<\/a> and globalization the world\ris not perfect it will not be perfect but i think its very important that inside the European Union<\/a> we work with these values and of course trying to then export those values through peaceful means we know that the European Union<\/a> and the Member States<\/a> are exporting arms the Sporting Relationship<\/a> on the economic scale as saudi arabia or russia or Egypt Torture<\/a> and murder show tries a massive scale and the us still doing businesses with those countries we are talking now about businesses these are the values of. Europe oh no they are not the values of europe the values of europe have to do with peace prosperity security and stability and were trying to work towards those every countries in the world is not going to be german french finnish Swedish British<\/a> or anything for that manner but i think its very important that we continue to work on the basis of our values youre never going to get it Pitch Perfect<\/a> i also must remind of the European Union<\/a>\ris the biggest aid donor in the world i must also remind of the European Union<\/a> countries have this more full compensation of another things were talking to no its not its not that by now i think the way in which youre trying to present things i find it extremely simplified and Black And White<\/a> it also doesnt that no i dont like dont do this in the world perspectives sorry or not they are not theyre not are not only without ever having the art of well youre not listening because youre interrupt me constantly so what im trying to say is that the world is not perfect if i had a choice we would be based on values having liberal democracy is a Social Market Economy<\/a> and cooperate together piece by piece the world is becoming a better place do we stop corporation with everyone who doesnt agree with us no i dont think we know that we dont talk about cooperation no you try to make it Black And White<\/a> the question is how intensively our European Countries<\/a> and also the European Union<\/a> for example supporting businesses trades\rand these are the governments and these are the ministers who are improving all these relation for example with a country like china now you will tell me again we are not china but you and the European Union<\/a> and also your country you are supporting with coming there helping trade for your companies that these totally terences stadium and these governments are more in power than they were before how does this. Meche with the values we are talking about its definitely not a Perfect Match<\/a> but i do think that trade and corporation is a way of bringing nations and to tease and areas closer together and my argument this that were starting to see a china which obviously does a lot of trade do we agree with the way in which they always do business no but i do not believe that we should stop doing that we support more the population in\rchina or the author of tearing government if we are coming with a lot of gifts with a lot of Military Cooperation<\/a> with trade who is really helped by this i think populations more than regimes because at the end of the day when it comes to Economic Growth<\/a> for pleasure so much better off if you look at g. D. P. Per capita growth in china it is much greater than it was before when start trying to started openness you could argue that its a much more open society than it used to be but it certainly is different but the control is increasing the dictatorship is not decreasing and we have a real feel we can talk about thats russia. The relations with russia is a very complicated putting is still suppressing its own population there is still no democracy in russia russia has annexed crimea there is no sign that russia will\rleave that ukraine territory or stop supporting separatists in Eastern Ukraine<\/a> this sanctions which the e. U. Has imposed on moscow do you. Think that they are working what are your suggestions about its actually pretty much the only instrument that we have with russia what you just said i think is absolutely correct and i do think that the European Union<\/a> took a good and principled decision by pushing those sanctions and keeping them up my argument was of course when i was media given piece in georgia as a chairman of the o. A c but this is when russian. Foreign policy started to change and we started to see violence and grabbing on to territory again this is what we can do with russia i mean we have One Thousand Three Hundred<\/a> kilometers of border with russia we know things too about how to deal with the russians i think sanctions are the best instrument that we have at this moment they are not working well i would argue that theyre working look at the g. D. P. Per capita in russia look at the konami growth and insulted as not changing the\rpolicy its true but you know what do you want us to do you do it by force but for me you were just earlier arguing that we should stop relations for instance with saudi arabia now when i say that now that now i know that i met relations with im not sure its never been a program where developed to speak at all anyway go ahead your question or lecture was europe as part of the pending on energy the live risk from russia if you had foreseen this wouldnt it try to wean itself off of Russia Energy<\/a> deliveries instead europeans are building more pipelines and Russian Nuclear<\/a> reactors thats what you call defending the European Values<\/a> to be strong against russia no its actually called and Energy Dependency<\/a> and i do think and i think youre absolutely right that we need to start moving towards more independence in energy and you need to have that as broadest possible but if you look for instance a Gas Distribution<\/a> in eastern and Central Europe<\/a> it would be impossible to cut off\rthe pipelines at this particular moment. In your platform that state about migration you state we solved the worst Migration Crisis<\/a> and now it is time to show all europeans that the situation is under control what do you mean by soul. In the sense that in twenty fifteen we had the biggest migratory for flow into europe since World War Two<\/a> we were talking about A Million Two<\/a> million Illegal Immigrants<\/a> coming in and if you look at the figures in twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen they are now at the pre twenty fifteen level so it is much better uncontrolled than what is was sort of what does it mean solve the problem is still there you have the war in syria you have afghanistan you have refugees and by paying of turkey to keep the refugees three millions of them and thats what you are saying you so love the problem but again we must stop the illusion of utopia and that everything is perfect i think we have\rmitigated and in that sense solve the problem now its a question of how you had minister at the of course as you have read my program you will see that i have three proposals on how to deal with it in the future as well how can you say that something is so if at the same time you have three millions of refugees and you are dependent from a dictator who is suppressing his own population he is doing the bad work for europe and you are saying the problem is so now i think what i suggest also in my programme is three things one is to have Asylum Centers<\/a> outside the European Union<\/a> in order to be able to solve the problem and of course they should be e. U. Funded and based on the u. N. H. C. R. Secondly i suggest that we have it should have a stronger frontex ten thousand and then thirdly i think we should have humanitarian based the Silent Quote Us<\/a> now will this solve the problem not completely but it will at least alleviate the pain and help it do i feel that the\rdeal with turkey was the right one. Bubbly it had a time and a place do i like the turkish regime anetta dont know i dont do a like what they do no i dont but right now at this particular moment we dont have an alternative that means magic policy is. Something which has the same value like values. Dont understand your point dont know not what it is when you dont like what turkeys doing you dont like the government but you have to understand that we all have to understand this is pretty big policy its very pragmatic yes we try to find a solution to one of the key problems i think that we have in europe which is migration and i think we have been able to mitigate it quite well i think that we have to talk about the key problem which means africa which means some arab countries and then nothing is sold and therefore as you have read my program i also talk about the focus should be on investment in africa through years and years of course it will you know youre talking about you can pay and you approach for now\ryou want to be the president in the next month were talking about now not in three four five years yeah but i mean to be quite honest lets be realistic i have a five Week Campaign<\/a> and if i were to claim that ill solve the worlds problems right now that would be absolutely ridiculous i think. Not not at all credible so my argument is that what we need to do is to have more corporation for instance with continents such as africa not least because that continent is going to have four billion people inhabitants in Two Thousand And One Hundred<\/a> so we have a lot of work ahead of us yes another if you are of one of your solutions from you can pay in vote we should establish a quota for humanitarian basis Salim Seekers<\/a> for each member state hungary Poland Slovakia<\/a> have all rejected any kinds of voter system how are you going to get european governments to support the idea well as im sure you were listening a little bit earlier i made that point i can repeat it if you want to this is not\rabout. Illegal immigrants as such its about Asylum Seekers<\/a> who are International Humanitarian<\/a> based asylum he said theres hungary has not said no on a humanitarian based Asylum Seekers<\/a> this is a key system whereby you from these centers make some kind of a quota and if you dont do it you can use some flexible solidarity but hungary has not said no to that you have to get your facts right if youre trying to be aggressive in your quest area no two Asylum Seekers<\/a> and many european eastern European Countries<\/a> say that they dont want any muslims this is correct you heard about that ive heard about that you were talking about values but if you are the president of this organization some of the countrys leaders are saying we dont want any muslims this is religious discrimination isnt it yes i would agree that i think you know we must protect minorities for much protect religious freedom and thats why i talk a lot about values but you see i think i mean the problem that i have with your\rline of question is is that you make a perception that the world is perfect and Everyone Needs<\/a> to have the same opinion i am trying my best to improve the world and give Problematic Solutions<\/a> and the feeling that i keep of all the time is that you know will not find a solution if we dont do it right away and i think as i think we are talking about red lines and racism is a red light in the values and we are now on racism so i understand your intervention but i apologize here is not black white and here are no assumptions of the real let realities far right center for the parties have gained ground in this country where we are now the Czech Republic<\/a> and austria in germany in denmark in hungary in other eastern European Countries<\/a> this is the real europe today and we are talking about this really europe and the question is what happened in the last years and you warsaw and u. T. You were Prime Minister<\/a> you were part of the u. P. A. You. These are the red lines mr stop yeah and i fully agree with you what happened was probably two things one was the euro crisis which caused a lot of instability and the other one was the Migration Crisis<\/a> which cost a lot of fear in terms of security and i think the model that we have had of societies Social Market Economy<\/a> liberal democracy hasnt delivered for everyone and my argument is that we need to address these issues but we cannot do it in an aggressive fashion and thats why im now standing on the barricades to try to first talk about values because they are the anchor of what we have and then try to do policies on the basis of those this is where the populace is doing the explanation you just gave us on this one hand the other one is thats not an Argument Patient<\/a> to vote for parties who are racists and of Fabric Nationalists<\/a> so\rthis is a political reality and you know what we did in finland we actually hog the populace to death you might remember that in twenty fifteen they came into government and they had three promises no more austerity no more money to greece and no more migration what happened we had to push austerity and we bailed out greece and then. For historical reason we had the biggest Migration Crisis<\/a> ever their popularity hogged they split us a party and now theyre out of government so thats one solution but not we dont like you want to be the president of the smile on this set i have all that when my point is that i have dealt with populists before and i will deal with populists in the future as well this is what i want others to help phyllis yes to a certain extent is. Is he a dangerous populous i have made it clear that i dont like is the liberal policy so i dont like his attack on Academic Freedom<\/a> or freedom of n. G. O. S or on Freedom Of Press<\/a> but he is even one of the grooves in u. A. E. P. P. Are you in favor of and this is possible its not as company. Then in the u. Of excluding opens fish party from the e. P. Your family yes and the way in which i would suggest that we go through at this one have a dialogue to have a declaration on values and if unfinished does not sign that declaration of values then theyre out viktor orban is and has been also Prime Minister<\/a> of hungary has been reelected should hungary be punished by the e. U. For its antidemocratic behavior yes thats why we have article seven that has been put into motion this is what the European Union<\/a> is all about you have to basically show that you put your money where my office you spoke about some reasons not arguments but reasons to understand populism italy now has a populist anti or start a government that has recently approved a new budget with massive new borrowing they are breaking the rules of eurozone countries on day yes they are and thats why ive always been very strong on\ra rules based system the Stability And Growth Pact<\/a> and i think when you are in bad Economic Times<\/a> you should be expansionary when youre good Economic Times<\/a> you should probably do the Structural Reforms<\/a> and im quite sat me and a bit scared to watch whats going on in italy at the mo what would be your reaction on italy oh it would be one to follow the rules so i would be very much the guardian of the treaties on this particular case on the other hand you know that austerity for example in spades or in italy we have there a lot of unemployment queues unemployment so poverty on the one hand and principles on the other and what is more important they go hand in hand basically you need to have Structural Reforms<\/a> in place you need to have an economy that works in order for you to be able to feed the well first of society its not a give and take its not only about growth or austerity you need both you said our values are under attack from both inside and outside. Of the u. P. A. Union which a tag is more serious and dangerous i think theyre both dangerous you know the way in which President Donald Trump<\/a> is acting at this particular moment china which we discussed earlier id much rather we do The Good Guys<\/a> do the algorithms then the chinese and then of course russia so thats the attack from the outside and then from the inside its also worrying you know i do think this is a big problem thats why we need to try to address it whether its from italy poland remain here or hungary its something that we need to deal with if we stand true to our values it was a time where we wouldnt have said outside the United States<\/a> what change i think the u. S. Administration changed you know we have a president right now in the United States<\/a> who is quite unpredictable does this mean that we are stopping or does. Predictable obama italy it i think hungary yeah when it comes yeah no when it comes to european policy\rwere quite predictable when it comes to trade when it comes to foreign and Security Policy<\/a> when it comes to Crisis Management<\/a> when it comes to believing that the iraqis are early on was used to the you peons who are not credible you know a lot of these parties and of credible anyway what is the difference between mr obama and mr trump regarding the fact that its a small country a big country will all be asleep mr orban is a Prime Minister<\/a> donald trump is a president of the United States<\/a> when it comes to values they probably have a lot of similarities but mr orban is not europe he comes from a country of ten Million People<\/a> which is great in and of itself but europe is much more than one specific but members there in the Member States<\/a> are going into the direction of totalitarianism of the destruction of the rule for the all the Freedom Of Press<\/a> this is this really easy on the part of you again and this is exactly the reason that someone needs to stand up on the barricades and defend european and\rglobal values wouldnt you agree this is mr the. 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