Trust to take the lead economic upswing in africa who really profits thats our topic. On. A summer and here to debate the risks and opportunities of germanys africas strategy is via tata she is a Computer Scientist with roots in cameroon and serves as the editor in chief of the magazine africa positive she says the compact with africa primarily serves the interests of western investors its also a pleasure to welcome him on site thetan shes a human rights activists from sudan whos been living in germany since 2016 she says the investment and trade provisions should be based on partnership and not on superiority. Im very pleased to welcome my colleague from africa desk down to coats who has reported from numerous african countries over the past 12 years he says unless african governments and International Partners do their part the poor will be left out with dire consequences. Let me start with you and i ask you about the 1st part of our title namely economic upswing we often hear theres a lot more good news coming out of africa than the western media typically report now with a magazine entitled africa positive i guess youre trying to change that can Something Like this initiative the compact with africa and this conference that was held this week can they shift the narrative on africa. For them in time yet in germany if you. Think. About africa has to be constantly repeated it into society so that we can change. Digimon companies see Africa Development because normally now in. Africa. We eat. You know we the nation you know and look and look with Economic Development and i think thats a narrative that is very important because thats what is going to show the companies here or the investors here that there is a lot in this continent like instead of only concentrating on the role much areas and on the oil i mean we have a lot of potential if we had a young talented an intrapreneur but it didnt need or didnt need Investment Capital what from government and what from invest also Foreign Direct Investment back i think africa doesnt really address these issues yes in fact i said in your Opening Statement it serves the interests of western investors but it doesnt western investment generate jobs doesnt it create a climate that leads to growth but not with these initiatives in the way i see it because if you look at it critically it focuses on like scare investment you know. Most of the companies most of the small and Medium Sized Companies in african countries are mostly informal you know and they really need a lot of capital maybe look very like they did need to be small capital in order for them to like you know and those the companies that are going to create jobs because they look at companies i mean when you look at africa it focuses on the big guys you know going to Pension Funds you know to invest so that they connect much more. Teens in these much more profit you know that we need investment that is going to at the bottom of the pyramid that is going to create more jobs in the society similar to what daniel post said in his Opening Statement he said that we need to make sure that growth and investment benefit the poor youve been reporting as i said from africa for some years now what are the main obstacles that in fact. Hinder that from happening well i think one issue is what guidelines are in place to really make sure that the local people benefit i remember visiting a project in rural sirrah leone where a western company came and i think even backed with with funds from western Development Organisations to set up a plantation to produce palm oil locally but the problem is they were only hiring locals as unskilled workers and they were given a job for maybe one month for maybe 3 months and then that was it they were out of the job they were not earning salaries that were really helping them to turn their lives around to send their kids to school or maybe to invest for example by building a house and then you know paying a local company so that you see the money is actually growing and stimulating Economic Growth so for me its really an issue about what guidelines do we have and place so the compact and the conference talked a lot about reform would you say that they do take some steps to addressing those problems im very doubtful there it always sounds as if many people believe its only a matter of bringing more private investment to africa and that it would be a selfstarter i do not really see that people take this into account. You said investment and trade base must be based on Mutual Respect so the compact and also the conference that was just posted they are explicitly for seeing Reform Partnerships would you say that meets your demand i guess no because theyre compact with africa strategies and policies that. Very much depend on. Their loans that are in that will end up in empowering the African People because. We are always taking the international the International Organizations recipes that we have to lift this the subsistence or or the. Help on the basic needs of the of the poor people like in Health Sector or Education Sector then. After years youll find the country is having a lot of birthing of these deaths on children and we are still on the same circle of government of poverty and thats why i think compact with africa is not meeting the demands of africans rather more. Compact with africa its an investment a strategy and Economical Development that needs to provide chances for young people to work more jobs but when we look at this investments ive not had to think it occasion and absolutely not Vocational Training that is very much needed for for for for work market and when we dont have a skilled workers or we cannot mean. The demand of these markets then when the then the investors will rely on somebody from outside and that is why it opened concerts for western people not for the African People and if i take sudan as an example although so that is not part of the. Compact with africa but there is lots of policies than this that i think has that been made specifically to sudan as in my. Own process and different other block but also a lot of process is coming from European Union stores so done but the beneficiaries not the africans or the nation the sudanese people and instead these policies have being very much gronk very much a negative impact in our country lets a little bit deeper on what the compact foresees in terms of Reform Partnerships one partnership with senegal was being showcased at this weeks conference lets hear what leaders from both sides have to say. Whether its about peace climate protection Economic Development migration or other big issues of our times we all agree that with over 50 countries and a growing population especially a young population africa is playing an Important Role in solving global problems lot of i know well its become president you do will help with the government in all the stakeholders to implement reforms that will improve your inking for the ease of doing business. From off to africa the growth continent of the future with building our partnership on a equal footing win win situation for both sides fueled by the. Let me go to you via tatar we heard the senegalese minister there talking about the Reform Partnership would you agree that a Partnership Like this one can in fact promote effective reform are there concrete steps that you would say they are helpful while there are some concrete steps. Initiatives. But i think thats not really the problems that are really affecting the Economy Development of many african countries that are involved in this africa we should look at. The foundation of this technician of Economic Development in african countries and you see when you look at it critically its also because of the. Connections that most of these countries have with European Countries and also if you look at for example you see france the role of france place in many african countries you know we did one achieve. Decisions that have been taken in these countries everything is being controlled by france so we need a lot of african countries are not independent and if a country is not independent it cannot carry out its development. Decisions on its own because somebody is always involving him she saw herself in sight so i think africa is africans themselves to help for a week to break away from these changes that are preventing the other countries from developing the most important thing for me is to see how we can use our resources that we have to at value to put docks before we expect out of the continent good that would be the only way im going to create a lot of employment for the youths because if we dont produce what what we consume africans of that simple and this initiative. Immense that doesnt how much interest do African Leaders themselves or at least many African Leaders themselves really have in reform are there many who. Themselves profit literally profit from perpetuating the status quo of course not only the africans that i brought the thing from but pertwee of the. African nation. Of the sufferings of the african nations its that the western countries are also the same thing they favor to have such kind of weak and corrupt leaders in the top of the head of african continent that is so because of so many things that the Money Laundering issues and so many economical big economical issues that going on. Market that is also florida in africa and i think coming back to. To have a point that. We really need to look in a critical way to compact with africa if the partners the European Partners really really apply that compact with africa if were looking not only to france france is some really quite calling and having i want to get i mean a moment to the world outside. And u. K. Also u. K. Also is having talked to us a little bit more about African Leadership itself in lets not only talk about pressure from outside but lets talk about what is generated on corruption from inside ok i give you an example of done because i am coming from so that i like. We were struggling against the bashir regime that corrupt regime that committed crimes against humanity and genocide in the country for so long time when everybody is weak when ever there is no any. Economy flows of money or banking or anything we got money comes from europe in such of kind of projects like simple heart dont project that this into some. 17 we had a very good a prize people were demonstration and theyre all its 2 to 2 to. What its a fun process has a started millions of 1. 00 so a few years have been invested in this government so that destabilize the system that really corrupt and that create such thing in the suffering South Africans and a plus project that have been initiated to hinder the influx of immigrants to europe i thought process within this context lets you which money has been getting its way to to corrupt militias and government so even if the nations the africans have the will to break down this vicious circle of of of suffer but we have extend that factors that affect our our will and our our ambitions of having Good Governance in the contrary so it daniel. I posed that question in a rather generalized where saying most African Leaders but in fact there are why discrepancies are there how the compact includes a couple of countries that are often seen as beacons ethiopia and rwanda on the other hand it also includes egypt which surely is not noted for its interest in breaking the status quo how do you figure that does that make sense for you well i think even the to be cancer and if you are people are often criticised especially for the human rights record if you will p. R. s also grappling with internal conflicts but also the government has come under fire so i think these countries were chosen according to economic interests but Good Governance apparently was not the primary factor to determine which countries could be part of the compact with Africa Initiative and i think that is a great miss. Take i think you also need to promote goodwill of countries would you want to include then. Isnt this sort of it seems to me all of you are to some degree arguing its all or nothing dont we need to move step by step and arent there countries where you do see some potential for cooperation on trade and investment possibly beginning to change the dynamics or you want to i dont i guess yeah i dont really see that the political dynamics in these countries are changing i think it actually helps the leaders to remain in power if they have good relations with the west of Development Aid flowing oil few even have a corporation in the Security Sector for instance as it was the case with with saddam as you mentioned i think there is even a certain danger although i understand the western interests to cooperate with these governments but i think it is also a. Dangerous situation because you might help governments to to remain in power despite a very bad human rights record so taking this to an extreme are you suggesting african countries would be better off if the flows stopped. I think thats the opinion that they always propagate because i think if african countries can concentrate on the internal struggles that they have course we have a lot of indian our struggles and most of these are very complex you know because they also come from these structures that we inherited from the time so i think the 1st thing is we have to sit together we did our countries and maybe we we did in countries and look for ways and solutions of tackling these internet struggles and if we do then you then youre going to see that the entire african trade is going to increase because we are because we have to trade with each order we dont have to focus our mind on europe you know and those are the things that i think if we start step by step solving the right problems then we wont be sitting here and talking about initiatives that are coming from europe from from russia china you know to see if africa know we have to sever what self. Still i think in the in the issue of investment if any investor will not favor to have any money in a concrete that is politically and steep and this and this the billeted this situation is very much related to the policies of the European Union thats right so. I think either those people are throwing money on nothing because i dont i dont believe in sustainability of long term. Projects will not be sustained for long term. Conditions or years. Rather more there will be the selection is such a distraction somehow to these products by the in the stability investing in war investing in militias invest in. Standing there in democratic systems in our countries so all this kind of think that when the general retired or when not make favor of the most investors to let me bring women and. Let me bring in another short report that we have and see whether i can provoke you a little bit because it purports to tell it positive story germany launched the compact in 2017 during its presidency of the g. 20 group of industrialized and developing countries Foreign Investment in the partner countries to the compact has risen since then albeit modestly most of the increase though has gone to just 4 countries egypt morocco ethiopia and gonna lets take a closer look at one story. Across over 2300000 people live in kaunas capital with more coming in every day. Even now the city is short around 2000000. 00 apartments construction is going ahead full capacity. And the potential is great enough for german drywall maker can offer to open a branch in ghana but even the best materials are useless if nobody knows how to handle them. And our target is to equip call personnel in the building and Construction Industry to gain employment. And their livelihood. With assistance from the german cade said Development Agency the company set up a Training Center 350 young people have already completed training here architects Civil Engineers and tradesmen thousands more are expected to follow. Can this set an example for other african countries. So let me put that question straight away to daniel but with this preface to the question we heard the chancellor in the report before talking about migration it is pretty easy to conclude that a lot of this is all about migration many african countries have huge youth populations not enough jobs to go around there is a lot of pressure on young people to go somewhere else where the opportunities are better can a project like that one that we just saw make a. Different yes i think and i think the compact also has potential because i mean every country every continent also in these economic ties with the rest of the world i mean nobody can survive alone and so i think also the compact has potential because Infrastructure Projects for instance the idea to improve Energy Supply also helps to stimulate local growt