re talking about being a part of our siety. Same way with health care. It is a value system. O what do you think . Is he right . Buying medical care y dont need is part of americas value system . Hi, everyone. Im brenda buttner. This is bulls and bears. D here they are, the bulls and bears this week. Gary b. Smith, tracy byrnes, jonas max ferris, John Layfield, and david mercer. John, paying for Maternity Care or other coverage you dont need is all part of americas value system . Not part of the america i understand its part of a socialist system. If thatshow you want to view health care, that its a right, that you d dont have to pay fo it. We pay taxes to pay for defense. Its not fair to compare it to health care where people have the ability to pay for what they use. How about we take the 65 homeownership right now and have them pay a double mortgage or extra mortgage to pay for the 35 who dont have homes . Where does this end, and where do it somewhere, we realize health care is not necessarily a specific right. Well, the problem is, david, that you are paying for things you may not necessarilneed, and its costing more too. Is that part the value system . Well, i belie that the whole objective of the Affordable Care act is to lowe costs overall to the onomy and to individuals. But secondly, with regard to the obama care and what it affords in terms of benefits, look, insurance itself, none of us may need a t of us may not need to hav a payout on our insurance, but we still pay for it and we may never e. But the time may come when a catastrophic event occurs, an accident occurs, or a diagnosis mes where that needs to be covered under obama care or the Affordable Care act. And so whether you want it or you think youll need it or whatever, at least the American People know that everybody is getting covered and has access to universal health re. And that is the overall goal of health care. David, im pretty sure John Layfield doesnt need Maternity Care. Just going with that. Nor do i need Maternity Care. But i dont mind paying for it as part of my overa insurance premium. But the analysis to property tas is wrong. You ge to vote. As a matter of fact, i just went to the voting booth this weekend d voted on stuff happening in my area. And i get to move if i dont want to pay taxxes. I can move to florida or texas where kroi dont have to deal w this stuff. I think s wng to pull an analogy like this. You cant even compare apples to oranges here. But, tracy, you can pay the fine and not get insurance if you dont like it. And then thats not the gary b. , you go to florida o texas, youave property taxes. But you can move to a Different School district ere they may have higher or lower taxes. Theris some choice there. Is there choice with obama care . Well, not as iee it, although i can now tell i can see the lefts new spin, which davidrevealed, where you can opt out of it. Thats a new one. Ill give him that. I guess i have not thought that i can just say, hey, im not going to thats not an out. But i had not heard that from your side, so i guess ths part of it. But on the other end, i suppo if a vast majority of people opt out of it, the whole thing crumbles then anyway because theres not going to be enough money paying in. But thats besides the poi. On the property tax issue, youre right, brenda. You have to pay it virtually everywhere, unless you live in an apartment or Something Like that. But the other the flip side of the property tax is, in theory, you get back value. I live in a high property tax area. The Public Schools are good. But the property itself should be worth more than in an area where the property taxes are a little bit lower. As far as, you know, david mentioned, well, youre paying in and you might not need this stuff in the insurance, yes, but with regular insurance that you purchase on the private market u can opt what thin to get. You can choose a super high deductible if you want. This is a kind of one size fits all. Its forced on everyone down a path which according to all the polls most people dont really like. Jonas, what do you think . Is this part of the American Value system to pay for these things that we may not necessarily need . Unfortunately, i actually think tom harken put it better than oma put it. The rationale for it. First ofall, we coul have voted out of it. You could have voted for romney and the senate and it would have beenurned around. Sohe majority voted for extending and having this ridiculous rule. So we cant complain. That is america. My up to just voted for a new stadium in the town that i have to pay for. I dont have kids, and i do not care about the sports in the community. But i overpaid for the house because the Property Values were inflated because of the great hool in the town. Unfortunately, thats america. You have to pay to pay for other people who cant afford. Wait a minute. John let me finish. Most americans cant afford school. 1 3 of americans cant afford school. It would be like 20,000 a kid. So everybody has a house. And we disproportionately charge the bigger homeowners, not the people with most kids, to pay for your kid to go to school becausyou cant afford private school. I dont like it, but thats how it works. John, basically, you can move if you dont want to pay for that stadium. But with obama care, there is no choice. We are increasingly seng there is no choice. No. There is no option. Look, we also pay taxes and that pays for the salaries of 535 coressmen and that benefits absolutely nobody in america. So there is a precedent for this. Look, we are being forced to pay this. And where does this end . Where es it end that were going to beepaying this thing . The reason im going to have to pay for maternity coverage whether i opt out or not, its going to be baked in somewhere, because youre covering people through subsidies who cannot afford the health care insurance. Thats an economicargument. But where does that end . Doest end in disability, longterm unemployme insurance . At what point do we ask people to pay their own way when they are able . And that is a basic difference and ideolog he way that most people that believe infree markets see america as socialists see america. But i think thats the thin theres no escape, right . I could go and Research Property taxes in florida and go live down there if it bothers me so much that i pay exorbitant amounts in new jersey, and sometimes i feel like i get nothing out of it. But i choose to live here. I cant choose out of oba care, right . I mean, i have no choice. And i think thats theroblem that everybody has. David you have different plans through obama care and through the exchanges, which you should research to get one that covers what your needs are. Really, david . We could take the whole halfhour on that. Gary b. , take it away. Brenda, i could almost aee with senator harken if the greater good value system was going to benefit everyone. But from what i am seeing right now, at the end of obama care, well actually have less people insured and overall well be paying higher premiums. So im not understanding ok. We got this forced market. If everyone was insured and premiums came down, i would say, ok, yeah, it worked out. It doesnt look like were heading down thapath. Well be in worse shape than we are, which makes it doubly annoying. S that that has to be the last word. The Health Care Law enforcers back under fire. Why the irs is giving 4 billin to. It could give taxpayers a stroke. Spgebob gets the ax. But its what he does next that could create a sea change. You s, ive beenoing some calculating and crunching the old numbers. And it turns out that ill save a whole nickel if i cut your salary completely. Youre canned. Heres your pink slip. Im giving you the ax. Youre fired as a business owner, im constantly putting out fires. So i deserve a Small Business credit card with amazing rewards. With thepark cascard from capital one, i ge2 cash back on ery purchase, every day. I break my back around here. Finally soones recognizing me with unlimited rewards meetings start at 11, cindy. [ male announcer get the spark Business Card from capital one. Choose 2 cash back or dble miles on every purchase, every d. Whats in your wallet . I need your timesheets, larr whats in your wallet . Help the gulfrecon en we magulf, bp had two big g from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. I can tell you safety is at the heart of everything we do. Weve added cuttingedge technology, i can tell you safety is at like a new deepwater well cap. And a stateoftheart monitoring center, whe experts watch over all drilling activity twentyfourseven. And were sring what weve learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. R commitment has never been stronger. More than a new interior lighting system. It is more than a hot stone massage and more than your favorite scent infused into the cabin. It is a completely new era of innovation. And theighest expression of mercedesbenz. Introducing the 2014 sclass. The best or nothing. Introducing the 2014 sclass. At od, whatever business youre in, thats the business wee in with premium svice likene of the best we do whatever it takes toake your business our business. Od. Helping the world keep promises. Spending the day with my niece. I dont use super poligrip for hold because my denres fit well. Before those little pieces would get in between dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. Even welfitting dentures let in food particles. Super poligrip is zinc free. With just a few dabs, its clinically proven to seal out more food particles so youre more comfortable and confident while you eat. Sots not about keepinm, its about keeping the food particles out. [ charlie ] try zinc free super poligrip. How old is the oldest person youve known . We gave people a sticker and had them show us. We learned a lot of us have known someone whos lived well into their 90s. And thats a great thing. But even though were living longer, one thing that hasnt cnged much is the official retirement age. The question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. Keep it right here on the fax news channel. S. O. S. Irs. This time, its for reportedly doling out 4 billion in tax refunds, to, get this, i. D. Thieves, including 655 refunds to a single address in lithuania. What they could ve bought, huh . And gary b. , this is whos going to be enforng the Health Care Law. Its sad, isnt it . I dont want to pick on the irs for the reasons jonas has highlighted. [ laughter ] i love the irs. They are good people there. But the problem is with any government agency, ovseeing a big part of the administration of 20 of the economy, theres going to beways to fraud. You go down the list whether its medicare social security, medicaid, food stamps. Anything even if hsswas running this or the department of education, there would be fraud, waste, inefficiency. Unfortunately, thats what you get with a large government where the only goal is to build your department. The irshouldnt be doing this. It should be the private sector agailike weve said for, i guess, years now, that shoul be only involved in health care because they are the only ones accountable to a bottom line. Ok. Gary b. , youre safe for another year, i think. But john, howo you ta this . They are going to be enforcing the Health Care Law which is already as were discovering pretty much a mess. What do you think of the irs getting in there . I should have listened to my frie, audited right now, so i love the irs. They are underfunded and understaffed. It is tough for them to prosecute and catch guys who are hiding and not paying their taxes. Much less to dsomething with obama care. You have to start almost coletely over to build a whole new infrastructure, so might as will do what gary b. Is saying and hire a private company to do it. The government does not do things very well. Tra, youre a great accountant. But on behalf of the accountants of the world, dont shoothe messenger here. You get the congressional leaders that make up these rules. They dont know what they are doing. And then they se them to the irs and say, here, enforce them. And as gary said, they are on a shoestring budget. Four people are working there at this point, they are so short staffed. And they have all of this extra stuff to do. It is so unfair, and ripe for fraud. No one isin the shop right now watching it. David, what do you think of that . I think its never good news when you have people trying to defraud the system. And thats something theyll have to combat. But luckily and fortutely, they have caught this. Its been flagged. And theyre going to put measures in to prevent it from happening in the future. And already this year, as john alluded to, they have already caught about 12 billion in fraudulent claims that they will not have go out. And so we can only hope that that continues, and that they start reducing the incide of it. But its something that also the ivate sector has to endure and combat andpends billions of dollars trying to do so as well. Ok. But jonas, lets get jonas in here, they have a really big job, in additi to what theyre already doing. First of all, lets say the good the other panel should be saying good things about the irs before the october 15 deadline like i did, and they woult be facing all of this. Smart boy. First of all, look, the s is not the perfect agcy to implementhis. This is a ridiculous day of doing the health care thing. However, of all the government agencies, i give the irs the most credit. As an example. If you look at the amount of monethat they handle there, the trillions of income, thats a very low fraud rate. And just rsonally my amateur ca my amex card was frauded, and they had to pay that. Thats real money of fraud to those companies. And thats high i. T. At those mpanies. I bet they have higheross rates to fraud than the irs. And thats the private sector. And healthcare. Gov isnt going public. They wont get rich off the ipo like twitter this week. No one who is really good wants to work there on that. There is a corporate america. You dont have that. And Identity Theft has actually incrsed year over year. 1. 6 million peopl sufferedt from thisax Filing Season faces 1. 2 million last year. I think its getting worse. They had more losses in 2010 if im not mistaken. They did. Last word. Thanks, guys. So no ones safe from the pink sli not even e lovable sponge living in a pineapple under the sea. Why this upcoming episode of Spongebob Square nts is fuelling debate among those living above the sea. Its as simple as this. At bny mellon, our biness is invtments. Managing them, moving them, makinghem work. We oversee 20 of the worlds finaial asts. And that gives us scale and insight no one else has. Investment management combined with investment servicing. Bringing the power of investments to peoples lives. Invested in the world. Bn. I geout a lot. Except when its too cold. Like the last three weekends. Asthma doesnt affect my job. You missed the meeting again last week it doesnt affect mfamily. Your coughing woke me up again. I wish youd take me to the park. I dont use my rescue inhaler a lot. Depends on what you mean by a lot. Coping with asthma isnt controlling it. Test your level of control aasthma. Com, then talk to your doctor. There may be more you could do for your asthma. Afghanistan in 2009. On the u. S. S. Saratoga in 1982. [ male announcer ] once its earned, usaa Auto Insurance is often hnded down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaas commitment to serve current and formerilitary members and their families is without equal. Begin your legacy. Get an Auto Insurance quote. Usaa. We ow what it means to serve. Youre fired youre fired im take it to go unemployment thats part of mondays trailer for the show. His star fish friend, patrick, is said to say, dont worry, collecting unemployment is a great gig. But spongebob insists on hunting for a new job instead. Tracy, you say thiss exactly what our kidseed to say today . Im the first to tell you im not a spongob fan. Whats wrong with you . I think hes so fresh. But i love that even with his pink slip, aka dress, that was a cute moment, he says, ive got to get a job. I cant live like this. This is exactly what the kids need to hear. This notion tha they are getting it from spgebob, who cares where they are getting it from . Everything else they are hearing is so bad and convincing them they should sit on the couch and collect the government dole. Recession ts. Bikini bottoms. Fox ns alert. Which is the better re model . How can you sa patrick when he is just sitting back there taking in all the vernment dole . Well, i believe that spongebob is a protagonist is opposing and representing t values that we as americans all like to think of in terms of hard work and making a good living and providing for our families. I think his friend, i think thats a ltle exaggerated caricature when, you know, you think of a the people that are trying to find work, that may be unemployed, and may be on support with regard to the health care excuse me, the insurance that they paid into to cover them when they are unemployed. So i think that spongebob is fine in that represention. But i have a little bit of misgiving about his friend there. This isnt shakespeare. Its a cartoon. But really, spongebob or patrick . Who is the role model you want your kids to be watching . Well, obviously, id like them to be watchin spongebob. But heres the problem, brenda. I think most of us are inherently lazy, and we take the path of least resistance. And when the path of least resistance is lined with gold, as the government has done, my gosh, sincive been growing , its becoming worse and worse with generous food stamps and healthy unemployment benefits, things like that, its very easy to be the nonspongebob and to sit back and say, you know what . Im not going to rk. Brenda, when you and i were growing up, we didnt have those options. You d to go out and get a job because there wasnt this healthy Food Stamp Program and things like that. So its the governments problem. John, what do you say . Whh one . Are we really going to characterize americans as spongebob and nonspongebob . I only care what winnie the pooh has to say, by the way. M with david. Most americans are like spongebob. I cant believe i just said that. Yes, you did. And you said it