James freeman with the wall street journal who also worked at sec which makes me very nervous and former federal prosecutor, which also makes me nervous, fred tecce. So im just terrified. Were focusing what happened in the case and the deal reached and they have been managing their own money and effectively shut down. What does it mean for all the i . Let me ask you, james. He had four top lieutenants that stuck through him through all this. Tom cahini, solomon kumen. Steve kessler,. Bill hower. Theyre very reclusive from the photos. Not highprofile guys on the outside. They stuck with him. What happens to these people . Based on what we know so far they will be fine. This is largely the end of it i expect in the criminal zone. Now we may see Something Else but i think basically this settles the criminal matter for them. Melissa fred, what do you think about that . Obviously goes a lot further than that because it is not just about voiding prosecution. Where do your careers go from here . Do you have another job . Should have gotten out before all this happened like some other folks did . There was a whole group of traders that left in Early September to join Millennium Management out the door before things got ugly. Theyre already settled somewhere else. First of all, you have to ask yourself why they were there in the first place. If you read the governments indictment looks like the trading on inside information was the way it worked. You have to ask yourself and youre working there and understand what is going on and you see it and we had to, if you believe the government the question is why did you remain there in the first place . Melissa you think theyre tainted. James is sort of saying the opposite. This is, i made a lot of money for a long time. So these guys are valuable on the outside despite what happened. You disagree with that . No, no, i dont disagree wit. Im not so sure i would go so far that they were tainted, im just not crying real hard for them in my beer. Melissa yeah. These nice may be very well talent and what they do and bunch of them left to go to millennium. Steve cohen is lot of things. He was smart enough to surround himself with people that are very, very bright. They didnt make that much money for being stupid. Melissa james what do you think. I will not cry for them either but this may be interpreted as sad commentary on wall street melissa why is this not a sad commentary on wall street . At love folks out there say this firm has been very suspicious for a long time. They were trading ahead of the street. They were too good. Made too much money. All the talk on the street for years and years it was dirty money. You have to give people their presumption of innocence and you need to keep it in per speck. They had six people convicted of six people of insider trading. There is a firm of about a thousand people. This is not entirely clear a firmwide problem although obviously when they agreed to right a very big check, in fact the biggest check ever it raises questions. Melissa its a firmwide problem. Im sorry, i read melissa ha is exactly what this was. Right. Melissa the u. S. Attorney, preet bharara, made the point no institution is too big to jail. Sometimes you have to fault the entire institution for what is going on inside because it is endemic. They did let it happen and because, you knee, without somebody letting it go on, it couldnt have been so widespread. So it is appropriate to take down the institution. Let me tell you something. Melissa go ahead. These guys are not innocent. Im sorry i read the indictment. I dont think this is witchhunt, melissa said, like were on tv, bottom line, people said we knew, i guess were on tv, bottom line people knew these guys were playing outside the rules. Im sorry, they got caught. They struck a check for billion eight and we see where they go from there. Who is they . Theyre not making a criminal case against cohen how about the eight people named in the indictment . How about Stephen Cohen who has been charged because he was not keeping an eye on whether or not the foxes were in the henhouse . There is obviously an attitude that whatever goes goes. And if you believe the indictment they looked for and hired people who had insider or access to insider information. That has got to come from somewhere. Quite frankly, you know, he was captain of the ship. Melissa started talking about it going down. Melissa yeah. What he is charged with is not criminal. Its a civil sec case, failure to supervise. Melissa that is the case a lot of people are making about this. Do you disagree with anything he just said . I think i disagree with a number of things. One that, you know, this is the sad, maybe the sad commentary part is, i think a lot of people actually respect this firm. These people if they want to work will be very employable. But the bottom line, i think the problem here you have this bizarre situation where the institution gets charged but not any individuals for apparently runing a criminal enterprise. Eight people got indicted and two awaiting trial . No. But were talking about the management of the firm where you would say this is a rotten enterprise as opposed to several individuals. Melissa that is next . Fred is that next . We need to see that because a lot of people are saying it wont be done until we see orange jumpsuits at the top . Will that happen . You will see at least two. I still havent heard the u. S. Attorney say they agreed not to indict mr. Cohen. If that is theory, reality he hasnt been indicted so well see. Melissa thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Melissa up next maybe a few great tips for the sac capital folks. Todays money talker takes us through why being fired could be the best thing that ever happens to you. You will never look at your job the same way again, i promise how much do you hate getting squashed in an airplane seat . New call to standardize the size. But our beloved airlines are saying no. More money, a little leg room, coming up. So ally bank has a raise your rate cd that wothats correct. A rate. Cause im really nervous about getting trapped. Whys that . Uh, mark . Go get help i have my reasons. Look, you dont have to feel trapped with our raise your rate cd. If our rate on this cd goes up, yours can too. Oh that sounds nice. Dont feel trapped with the ally raise your rate cd. Ally bank. Your money needs an ally. Stick with innovation. Stick with power. Stick with technology. Get the flexcare platinum. New from philips sonicare. Help the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer engy company. I can tell you safety is at the heart of everything we do. Weve added cuttingedge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a stateoftheart monitoring center, whe experts watch over all drilling activity twentyfourseven. And were sharing what weve learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. Our commitment has never been stronger. At od, whatever business youre in, thats the business were in. With Premium Service like one of the best ontime delivery records and a low claims ratio, we do whatever it takes to make your business our business. Od. Helping the world keep promises. Melissa im sure you never heard this. Being fired could be the best thank that happened to you. I know i didnt believe this at first either. This money talker will make sure you never feel the same way about your job again. All right, guys, being fired, the best thing that could ever happen to you. What do you think, possible . Why . Because it forces you to into sort after rebirth situation where youre kind of frightened. Broke, worried about how you feed your family. What better motivation to get out there to do something you maybe didnt try before and flex some muscles you didnt know you had and use a skill you dont know you had before. Melissa robert, do you believe that . Or does it make you panic that you grab whatever comes your way because youre so worried about feeding your family . If you had a solid job you could think about doing something adventerous, save your money. I talk about this all the time, best thing that happened to me, was getting laid off. I wouldnt be on the internet and podcast and fact most of us dont have the opportunities. Dont have the opportunity to be fired or laid off. Most of us dont have the opportunity to do something with that experience. Most of us, dont have that right skillset or right dream which to pursue. Melissa tara is the most famous person to be fired. You got fired off the apprentice. , you were fired by donald trump. I got fired by donald trump. Melissa is being fired by donald trump the best thing that happened to you. I will say it wasnt my most shining moment but i think i turned out quite okay. Im also of the belief, i agree with fellow panelists. Necessity is the mother of all inventions. A lot of people want to be entrepreneurs. Theyre at the country because they dont have the courage to step out on faith and follow their dream. Melissa how does getting fired give you faith . That is what im having hard time follow. How does it give you courage instead of cripple you at home . There are people who are watching been laid off at their jobs or fired, thinking im not feeling courageous or broke and beaten down . You have to get out there, but you have nothing to fear but fear itself. Try this or be broke. If you do nothing, nothing happens. So being fired and having that, that fear of being broke forever is the motivation. Melissa yeah. That is the reason why you get up in the morning and try something new. Melissa that is true. Some of the tips we came across, tell me what you think about these. Number one, dont tell the whole world what happened. That is really good one. Thats a really good tip. You dont want people to think youre a failure, in any way, shape or form. You want to look at this as an opportunity. I tell people, dont even go to the job boards. Dont go looking for a job. Managing your contact list. Start going after people thaw know and look for opportunities. People dont want to help you find a job but they want you to help them with their dreams and opportunities. Melissa you think that is true . Doesnt go out to post your resume . My instinct, you get fired the next day youre so panicked and look and post in social media. Everyone is saying get online. You wouldnt jump on line to put up the resume . I think were in who you know economy. A lot of time people get hired who they know. To work the networks and contacts. You never know who your cousin is married to and what position they hold at a certain company. Work the Network Increases likelihood of hiring. How do you that effectively . How do you manage the contacts to be helpful . You dont know your brothers cousin, blah, blah, whatever, guess your cousin too, has a job that could be helpful to you but if you dont reach out to everyone then how do you know . Somebody always knows somebody. What you need to do is evaluate what your skillset is and figure out what youre good at. Maybe not necessarily what you love to do. I love to spend time with cats. No one will pay me to do that. Melissa you could be a vet. A cat sitter not in that way. Youtube videos. Figure out what youre good at. Find people, you know i remember this guy. Im good at sales, i think. I remember my friend had a friend that was salesman. I met him at a party. Wonder if he give me the number. Look at contacts to see. Maybe somebody knows somebody out there to give you a head start to point you in the right direction. Melissa one of the funny tips i read, dont leave on a trip right away. Surprised that. Were telling people to take a break, to assess what youre doing. The not jump but dont take a trip. Maybe a mindclearing trip is what you need, no . Stay local and maintain contacts. Leave the country. Leave the country. Absolutely. Go to some task avers country out in the middle of the tropics. Why do you live here now . I have no idea. Melissa just wondering. They say dont decline outplacement services. Sometimes your instinct youve been fired and laid off you want to get your stuff and get the hell out. Theyre saying dont say no to outplacement. Do you agree with that. I agree. Melissa yeah. Actually let me rethink that if your job was in line what it is that your dream was, that your passion was, then, definitely dont say no. But if, you know what . This firing, you feel a sense of freedom, then dont. Get yourself a new direction, a new way of life. I always say yeah. Look for opportunities. Dont look for the jobs. Look for, what, in your skillset and look for what is in your dream set. Melissa how do you listen to what your boss is telling you about to be fired . Really take it to heart but not get crushed by it . People have been told youre no good on tv. You should go look for another job still on tv doing great now. How do you sort through maybe what theyre telling youre not a great programmer but what theyre tell something not right. Go ahead, you please. You have to take an inventory and be very honest with yourself. Take an inventory and what your strengths and weaknesses are and compare and contrast that what youve been told by other people. My position is often if youre told the same thing by a lot of different people it is probably true. Melissa well end on that note. Good one. Thanks, guys, appreciate it. Up next where have blackberrys bags of money gone . The company is crashing. Even the ceos golden parachute may not open. Stay with me for todays wild ride and go get your measuring tape. There is a call to make all airplane seats the same size, what a novel idea but just 18inches wide. Are you more than 18inches wide . Well measure when you come back. Do you ever have too much money . Melissa calling all investors, what has happened to all of blackberrys bags of money . It is ousting the ceo and abandoning plans to sell, now trying to raise a billion dollars in a lastditch effort to save itself. Im a huge crackberry addict, i have to ad mist it, but am i left with nothing . From where im standing hard to tell what the company is really worth anymore. Here is the wall street journal columnist spencer jay cub. We have our very own Dennis Kneale with us as well. I want to start with the ceo. This is just an an incredible story what he has done with the company. You look at the compensation. In 2012, fiscal 2012 and 2013 he made 10 million in both of those years as the company is in a death spiral, dennis. It gets worse than that. Im not sure there has been a worst hightech executive in the past year or two. A couple things he did. He is the guy who decided lets buy another new Corporate Jet. They own two. The company is spiraling downward and they want to buy another. They decided well not do that, sell the other two. Remember he attacked wall street analyst who raised questions about z10 and called for sec investigation of stock manipulation because he is clearlying lying. Sounds like analyst was right. He was wrong. He originally was supposed to get a 18 million parachute if anyone took over the company. The board expanded that package to 56 million in the middle of the meltdown and on the Compensation Committee was the ceo of fairfax, the firm that later made a bid to change control which would have paid him off 56 million. Melissa so total conflict of interest and 56 million if he gets fired after the companys sold. That is what is so incredible about this. You talk about the fight he got into with the analyst. We had him on the show after that. He had smart alec answers to the questions the analyst had. Never data to prove his case. Melissa youre like if youre a ceo and come on to sort of defend this fight that youre in with an analyst, dont you Say Something strong as opposed to having, these little short, sarcastic it was within our expectations. That is all im saying. Is this guy ever going to work in your opinion after dennis and i put him through the wringer . I will not be ceo of a large tech company. He came from the Handset Division of blackberry and went to siemens. And rode in as a white knight to save it. Melissa wow, that didnt work. The Corporate Jet and stuff like that he made a lot of bad decisions. Like . For example, deciding which device to launch first, the bb10 operating system was delayed and delayed and delayed. Perhaps that was out of his control but the device he chose to launch that no one wanted but at least old diehards at blackberry wanted. Only reason people myself have brac berry is because of the keyboard. I was told that Thorsten Heins himself was warned by one of the founders of the company, dude, what are you doing with this new z10 doesnt have any keys . The keys are our whole differentiation. No, well go with iphone. And then it bombed. Melissa what left . What is left under the rubble here . You have a great recurring revenue stream of great big corporate accounts. Microsoft ought to buy this company instead of nokia. Melissa but who, who, would make the devices . I hear their security is better than anything else. Theyre planning keeping device decision. Getting infusion of billion dollars with convertible debenture. Melissa how quickly woo they work through that . That would extend things about a year. They have 2. 6 billion in cash. This division is recurring but nothing to hang your hat on. Enterprise business. What they used to process secure messages. That will go away. What is that worth without a handset business . They decided to keep the handset business. They brought in this guy john chen who melissa what do we know about him . He ran sybase before bought by sap. That company was a mess. He has bonafide credentials turning it around so he is a turn around guy. He wants to run the company as is, keep the Handset Division. Melissa dennis what do you think . You follow this religiously. Spencer, i bet he is running the thing to sell it. Melissa thats okay. In came bidders, they didnt like it. They couldnt get high enough price. Melissa Due Diligence was really badly. Raised to 4. 7 billion. Someone will buy the company and get it as good as it can, go out for 3 billion instead of 5 billion. Melissa does it ultimately survive . Two years from now, does somebody have blackberries. A trinket on somebodys charm bracelet but i dont think it will survive. Fairfax is making a bet it will survive. They contribute the equity and find some other guys and couldnt find enough people to get the 4. 7 billion together. What they have is convertible debenture that is convert at 10 a share. Their bid was nine. These convert at 10. Stock is at seven. Saying heads i win, tales, whatever, if it goes up they have optionality because they think theres a chance. Melissa great job. From the u. S. To irv corner of the globe money has been flying around the world today, again starting in germany, a huge art find moreworth more than 1. 3 billion in a apartment in munich. Authorities found 1500 pieces by su