Can what i am fall with and can share today. Always amazing to me, mr. Chairman, how many people before this committee suddenly develop amnesia. Maybe it is something about the air in the room. Let me ask you this. When a facebook employee accesses a users private information is unlike their private messages or their personally identifiable data is a record made of that, mr. Zuckerberg . Sorry, senator, could you repeat that . Is a record made of any time a facebook employee accesses a users private information, personal identifiable information for example messages is a record made any time a facebook employee does that . Senator, i believe so. Does it trigger an audit . Senator, i think sometimes it may. How many audits have been conducted . Senator, i do not know the exact number of audits. Can you give me a list . Senator, we follow up on that to see what would would be useful here. Im almost finished, mr. Chairman, will you commit to giving us a list of the number of Times Facebook employees have accessed users personal account information without their knowledge, yes or no . Senator, we should follow up on what would be useful here. It is, of course in the operations of the company if someone reports something, sometimes necessary, for people at the company to go review and understand the context around what is happening when somebody reports something. So, this is fairly frequent. And it is a matter of course. We do have Security Systems that can detect anomalous patterns to flag. But, we should follow up in more detail on what youre interested in. Mr. Chairman, i will just say in closing that what we have here is clear evidence of coordination between twitter, google, and facebook, mr. Zuckerberg knows he has the tools to track this but he either doesnt remember or wont commit to letting us see it. We have evidence of facebook tracking its own users all across the web. Mr. Zuckerberg wont answer questions about it, cant remember the name. Isnt sure if the tool is deployed in this way and wont commit to basic information. I submit to you this is both totally unacceptable and totally predictable because it is exactly what these Tech Companies have done to the American People and to congress for years now which is why it is time we took action against these modern day robber barrons, thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator klobuchar. I thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Im, as you know, the lead democrat on the antitrust subcommittee. And im going to take a little different approach here than mro competition policy. Because i understand why they might be coordinating when it comes to security. What i want to focus on is what i think we are seeing all over this country not just in tech. We are seeing a startup slump. We are seeing more and more consolidation. And throughout history we have seen that that is not good for small businesses. Its not good for consumers. And its not good for capitalism in the end. Even successful companies, even Popular Companies and even Innovative Companies are subject to the antitrust laws of this country. When i asked mr. Pick could i md me google was happy to take feedback. My response was the Justice Department already provided feedback in the form of a federal antitrust complaint. I know there is investigation reportedly going on out of the ftc right now regarding your company, mr. Zuckerberg. So, i want to start with exclusionary conduct regarding excluding smaller competitors by limiting interoperating with the facebook platform. The investigation that we saul in the house recently gave us a number of examples of companies excluded Companies Including vine, stack, glum, message me and arc. My view is this conduct exclusionary conduct not only damaged the ability of these smaller businesses to compete but deprived customers of convenient access. You are one of the most successful companies, Biggest Companies in the world, mr. Zuckerberg. Facebook. Do you think that this is fair competition or not . With regard to the interprabilityd and how have you conducted yourself with these other companies . Senator, im generally in favor of interoperating and Building Platform and access for companies to be able to access thats why we built the facebook platform in 2007. Some of the policies that you mention i think came about because what we were seeing was not necessarily start ups but larger competitors is unlike google and some of our chinese rivals from trying to access our systems in order to use their scale to compete with us better and it felt to us is unlike at the time that that wasnt the intent of what we were trying to enable. Okay. We may have a nonchinese example here. I just want to know i know that maybe we could hear from mr. Dorsey and i have concerns about facebooks treatment of twitter subsidiary vine. Its my understanding is that once facebook recognized vine as a competitor after twitter acquired it in 2013 it cut off vines ability to interoperate with facebook so they couldnt upload their videos to facebook. And i think that twitter shut down vine in 2016. Mr. Dorsey, could you tell me about the actual impact of facebooks actions on vines business on vines ability to compete and on your decision to shut down the service . And i know you are not a chinese company. Well, i dont know about the intent on the other side, but i know our own experience was we found it extremely challenging to compete with vine and ultimately decided that the ball moved past us and we shut it down. Again, i dont know the specifics and the tactics and what was done, but we did find it very, very Challenging Market to enter even though we existed prior to some of our peers doing the same thing. Okay. Im going to move to Something Else quickly. Instagram and whats app. We have some released internal facebook emails in which you, mr. Zuckerberg, wrote that instagram was if they grow to a large scale they could be very disruptive to us. And in a later email you confirmed that one of the purposes of facebook acquiring instagram would be to neutralize the competitor. You wrote those emails that were mentioned in that house report; is that right, mr. Zuckerberg. Senator, i believe so. And i have always distinguished between two things though. One is that we had some competition with instagram in the growing space of kind of camera apps and photo sharing apps. But at the time i dont think we or anyone else viewed instagram as a competitor as a large multipurpose social platform. In fact, people at the time kind of mocked our acquisition because they thought that we dramatically spent more money than we should have acquire something that they viewed as the primary lay camera and photo sharing app. At the time. We dont know how it would have done and when we look at your emails, it kind of leads us down this road as well as with whats app. That part of the purchase of these nay isnt a competitors is to i will use the word of fec joe simon who said last week a rrlg squash a competitor by buying it not just with targeting it anticompetitive activity. I know this is the subject of investigation. Maybe we will be hearing something soon. Something the Committee Members may be aware of not just facebook but whats going on with these deals that have gone through and how it has led to more and more consolidation and how we as the senate and i just talked to chairman graham about this last week could do having about this making standard in our laws to bring these cases not just soling tech mr. Zuckerberg you said that facebook had made over 2 billion on political ads, you said this was your quote relatively small part of your revenue. I know that but its kind of a big part of the lives of politics when that much money is spent on ads. This is a bill i actually had with senator graham and yet we have seen these political ads that keep creeping through despite your efforts to police them on your own. This is why i would so badly is unlike to pass the honest ads act. One ad that went through it says in three Battle Ground states ballots marked for donald trump had been disbarred. Poll, will voter fraud only increase closer to november . It stated in three battleground states paid ad ballots marked for donald trump have been discarded. This played between september 29th and october 7th, 2020. Had up to 200,000 impressions. Does this ad violate facebooks policy . Sorry, can you repeat what the ad was . The ad was an American Action news ad. They have advertised a lot of on your platform. And it said in three Battle Ground states ballots marked for donald trump had been discarded. This walls preelection. Senator i dont know if that particular ad violates our policy i would be happy to follow up afterwards on that. Could you commit to a policy to where actual peoples eyes people could review these ads instead of just being hit with algorithm review. Senator, we do have review before they can advertise. Does every ad go through a human being is unlike tvs do . I think every our policy is that we want to verify the you a then at this time of nittany lion is doing politic or social issue advertising and i think always more accurate than the technical system does some. Does some human being review every ad thats just a yes or a no. I dont know. I dont think so. We will follow up in the written. You brought this cease as and desist order nyu publishing a report noting over the last two years facebook has not labeled approximately 37 million in political ads. Why would you bring a cease and desist against them . Senator, is that the project that was scraping the data in a way that might have been. Your definition. Consent decree that we have. The reason it is happening is we havent passed the honest ads act. They are trying. They are not violating privacy. They are trying to get the ads so people can see the ads other campaigns, journalists, everyone. Senator,. Senator you know i support the honest ads act and agree we should have that passed and even before that that we have implemented it across our systems but i think in the case that you are referring to, that project was scraping data in a way that we agreed in our ftc concept decree around privacy that we would not allow so we have to follow up on that and make sure that we take steps to stop that violation. Okay. Last, mr. Dorsey. Do you think there should be more transparency were algorithms. Im off the ads now. Im on just generically. Part of this is people dont know how this data is going across across the systems and across the platforms and people are basically buying access has been my impression so that even if you say is unlike what is the news in the last 24 hours, old stuff comes up. Something has gone awry from the beginnings of this. Would it be helpful, do you think, if there was more transparency with algorithms . I do think it would be helpful but its technically very, very challenging to enforce that i think a better option is to provide more choice to turn off the algorithms or choose a different algorithms so people can see how it effects ones experience. Thank you. I ask that both of you look at the bill that senator kennedy and i have that the journalism competition and preservation act. To help the content providers negotiate with digital platforms. Thank you. Thank you. Senator tillis . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, gentlemen, for joining mr. Chairman i know you have asked whether these platforms can be addictive. I think they probably can be ways based on what i have read. It could be the nature of the personality and engagement in a tool that can that they can somehow relate to. But i also think there is a transactional addiction and i think you also mentioned social dilemma. I think thats the use of analytics which i dont criticize among the platforms but its the use of analytics to addict you to go down a certain path to produce a certain outcome. And that could either be an outcome forming an opinion or an outcome buying something you didnt even think about 30 minutes before you started going down that path. I think there are things that we have got to look at and i do agree with mr. Zuckerberg and mr. Dorsey. Its not conclusive but common sense would tell you its a problem already and it could become a bigger problem. Mr. Zuckerberg, i would is unlike to go back to the task platform for a minute. When i looked at the screen shot senator hawley put up it looked a lot is unlike a Work Management tool. Can you tell me a little bit about that and how many people are actually engaged as users on that plot form at facebook . Senator, yes, thank you. I was a bit surprised by senator hawleys focus on our task system because all this is its a basic internal project management tool. Its impactly what the name sounds is unlike, its used by companies, by people across our company thousands of times a day to assign projects and track them. Its used for all manner of different types of tasks across different people and teams. And, do you know roughly how many facebook either contractors or full time employees are actually users of the task platform . I think probably the majority of facebook employees and people we work with have some interaction with the task system as part of some part of their work. Its basically just a company wide to do list. Other platform that senator hahawley mentioned was the senta platform. You said you werent familiar with that one that may be helpful as a follow up to understand the nature of that platform. I wont pressure you on it today because you said you werent specifically familiar with the name of the tool. But i would be more interested in how its used. But, mr. Dorsey, does twitter have a platform similar to the task platform for Work Management communication among staff . Absolutely. I mean, even the Smallest Companies use these tools. We use a tool called tier up. I was involved in implementing these in my time in Technology Sector so i could see why you have these platforms mru didnt think there was systematic between going and twitter but you could conceive as people at google and similar provisions may havprofessions hp or talk about it over a beer. Could you see how the sceptic could see how these platforms could be used across platforms to force certain outcomes . Lets say you had 100 people at facebook, 100 people at twitter and 100 people at google that all had a political bent. They get together. They share notes and then they go back and make decisions that could make it appear is unlike its a Corporate Initiative could be by misguided staff. Could you at least conceive of that being possible . Senator, i understand the concern. And i think that coordination specifically on writing the policies or enforcement decisions could be problematic in the way that you are saying. Which is why i really wanted to make sure that it was clear that what we do is share signals around potential harm that we are seeing whether its, you know, specific content in the aftermath of a terrorist attack that people are trying to share virally so that way if one platform is seeing it, another platform can be prepared. That it will probably see that content soon, too. Signals around foreign interference in elections. I think its important that each company deals with those signals in a way that is in line with their own policies. And that, i think, is very different from saying that the companies are kind of coordinating to kind of figure out what the policy should be. I understand what the concern would be around that. Thats why i wanted to be clear about what we do and dont do there. I agree with that i would find it horribly irresponsible to think that this was some sort of a systematic approach across the platforms but just with the shear numbers of people that you all employ now. I could see how some of what happened in the hearing could occur people trying to manipulate certain outcomes. I dont want to get into the details except to know that the task platform if its similar to ones that i have experience with, has a lot of logging, a lot of data to where maybe you could do yourself a service by saying you know, i hear whats been suggested here, but, in analyzing the interactions between groups of people and seeing some aberrations, some people more active and geared toward one outcome or another, it could actually help you aleve some of our concerns with the way these platforms are being manipulated. Im not going to have time to drill down into some of the specific questions and im glad to hear that you all are open on some regulatory outcome. I will tell you if you listen to my colleagues on both sides of the aisle today i fully expect that congress is going to act in the next congress that were going to produce an outcome. Some people think that that is not possible because maybe the republicans and democrats are far apart. But if you listen to what theyre asking you. They are concerned with the kind of outcome they didnt is unlike on social media in equal measure. I do believe that you would be wellserved to come to the table as an industry and identify things, mr. Zuckerberg, i is unlike what you have said about transparency. And mr. Dorsey, i do think that the algorithms when you talk about the shear scale are probably the most Sustainable Way to go. But we are still going to have to have some confidence. I is unlike your concept on choice as well. Were going to have more visibility whats occurred is unlike a veterans day post that i did after the election was actually after my opponent had conceded, i just posted a picture think thanking veterans. And for period of time i think it was suspended and directing people towards election results. I would is unlike to think if that was the result of an algorithmic my opponent who posted veterans ad and every other person up for election got similar treatment. If it didnt it would seem to me there was some other factor in play if these algorithms are being apply you had to the base in that case political commentary from elected officials or candidates. So, i view this hearing as an opportunity to seek your commitment on two things. One, i mentioned to you all yesterday, i have got an intellectual property subcommittee hearing in the middle of december. I would is unlike to have a facebook and twitter representative there. I know you are very different platforms but i think you play very prominentfully a hearing that senator coons is sitting across from me now would is unlike to have you represented. I think i can speak for senator coons that would be helpful and we would is unlike to get your commitment to have witn