Thats all to come in the next hour with two fantastic panellists for a friday night. But first, the very latest news headunes but first, the very latest News Headlines with tatiana sanchez. Bev turner. Thank you. The top stories this hour. The former chief executive of royal mail says he doesnt know if money paid by subpostmasters who were wrongly accused of stealing was recorded as profit. Adam crozier told the horizon inquiry this afternoon that he assumed the money was accounted for by the money was accounted for by the companys financial team, but admitted he couldnt be sure. He also said he was not aware that lawyers within the Royal Mail Group conducted prosecutions , and conceded that prosecutions, and conceded that subpostmasters should not have been treated thieves. Sir been treated as thieves. Sir keir starmer says hes confident Angela Rayner has not broken any rules after Greater Manchester police launched an investigation over her tax affairs. Its over the sale of her Council House in stockport a decade ago. Questions have been asked about whether she paid the right amount of tax and if it was her main home. In a statement, Angela Rayner said the questions raised relate to a time before she was an mp and she set out her familys circumstances and taken expert tax and legal advice. We welcome this investigation because it will allow a line to because it will allow a line to be drawn in relation to this matter. I am fully confident that Angela Rayner has not broken the rules. She will broken the rules. She will co operate with the investigation as you would expect , and its really a matter expect, and its really a matter for the police. For the police. Energy minister Graham Stuart has announced he is standing down from his cabinet role to focus on local issues. The focus on local issues. The beverley and holderness mp said he plans to focus on issues such as making roads safer, broadband delivery and increasing the number of defibrillators in his constituency. Justin tomlinson constituency. Justin tomlinson now takes on the role of minister for energy, security and net zero. A passenger on a tram who was involved in a struggle with a knife wielding attacker has been told he will not face criminal charges, police say. Kyle knowles, who police say. Kyle knowles, who was 32, was armed with a knife when he boarded a tram in nottingham in june last year. He then launched an unprovoked attack on a passenger, causing serious knife wounds. However, the alleged attacker was himself fatally stabbed during the struggle. Nottinghamshire Police Arrested the passenger on suspicion of murder shortly after the tram came to a stop. Theyve now concluded that he acted in self defence. A man who acted in self defence. A man who attacked and killed another man with a serrated hunting knife in a cornwall nightclub has been sentenced to life in prison with a minimum of 23 years. Jake hill, also injured four others in just 20s outside the eclipse nightclub , causing fatal wounds nightclub, causing fatal wounds to 32 year old michael allen, who intervened to protect others. The judge praised the victims bravery, calling him a man of exceptional qualities. 22 year old tia taylor also received a three year sentence for manslaughter , and 23 year for manslaughter, and 23 year old Chelsea Powell was jailed for 15 months for perverting the course of. Justice. A 23 year course of. Justice. A 23 year old man has denied murdering a Good Samaritan who died as he tried to help a stranger. The 46 year old Chris Marriott was on a post christmas walk with his wife and two Young Children when he stopped to help a woman who was unconscious in the street. He was killed when a car ploughed into a small crowd following a disturbance in the burngreave area of sheffield. Hassan jahangir denied the murder and manslaughter of mr marriott, pleaded guilty marriott, but he pleaded guilty to causing his death by dangerous driving. There are dangerous driving. There are serious shortcomings in the bank of englands Economic Forecasting methods, to according a report by former chair of the Us Federal Reserve ben bernanke. It found staff were using out of date software with functions that could be automated, often performed manually. It comes after several manually. It comes after several of the banks forecasts were repeatedly inaccurate during a penod repeatedly inaccurate during a period of economic turbulence. Period of economic turbulence. Researchers have discovered the cause of the brightest burst of light ever recorded. The light ever recorded. The luminous burst of light, which occurred more than 2 billion light years from earth and just lasted seconds, was so bright it was said to have blinded space instruments. The findings, published in the journal nature astronomy , suggest boats likely astronomy, suggest boats likely origin is an explosion or supernova that came after the collapse of a massive star. For the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gbnews. Com alerts. Now its back to. Bev turner. Back to. Bev turner. All right. Good evening, steven, and cope with me. Bev turner tonight while michelle is off for still the easter holidays. It is just about joining me until 7 00. My panel this professor of this evening. Professor of politics at the university of kent, goodwin, kent, matt goodwin, and broadcast journalist justicea de silva. Thank you both much silva. Thank you both so much for joining us this evening. Now i want hear from you as well. I want to hear from you as well. Gbnews. Com forward slash. Your say, is our new say, of course, is our new Comment Section that ill be looking at throughout the show. So immigration, the echr net zero and trans ideology in the past few weeks, there have been various people calling for referendums on all of these major issues. Do we need more direct democracy . Do we need to direct democracy . Do we need to have more referendums on major issues . Right. Matt, let me come issues . Right. Matt, let me come to you first. This is something that mentioned one of that you mentioned in one of your recent articles on your most recent articles on your most recent articles on your. What brought up your substack. What brought up this topic for you . Well, i think that particular article i was, i was looking at what could rishi sunak do to kind of bring back all of those disillusioned conservatives. And ive all of the people ive surveyed all of the people who been over to the who have been going over to the reform party. And look, reform party. And i said, look, what would you back . And what would bring you back . And they well, we want a big, they said, well, we want a big, bold immigration. You bold offer on immigration. You know, want migration know, we want net migration slashed potentially leave the slashed or potentially leave the European Convention on human rights. And my suggestion is, look, one, one such look, actually one, one such offer for rishi sunak could be lets lets , lets lets lets have lets, lets lets really speak to this question about Mass Immigration once and for all. Lets have a National Conversation, a referendum on reducing levels of immigration into britain. And i think thats into britain. And i think thats the only thing rishi sunak really could do to try and turn around his fortunes, because what that speaks to actually is a sense that the British Public dont feel heard. I think possibly more than at any other time. Weve had such a disruptive last four years, havent we, judyta . But what is it at the moment that people feel so frustrated about . Is it the fact that we have had unelected Prime Ministers, maybe. Whats going on that people. Whats going on that people wish . There seems to be . I think the mood of the nation, and people would tell us at home tonight that we do want to have more referendums on the more regular referendums on the big issues. Know if its so much i dont know if its so much about that. I do think its a knock on effect since what happened former prime happened with former Prime Minister where minister Boris Johnson, where the feel that they the country did feel that they were all clamouring for a certain but was certain outcome. But there was a sort of inaction from people in power. And then question yourself, is the of yourself, what is the value of my if have put you in my vote if i have put you in there to represent me . But when ispeak there to represent me . But when i speak up for an opinion, you do not represent that. But then when think the when you think of the referendums, kind of referendums, you cannot kind of descend where descend into a situation where you who are you have leaders who are effectively in effectively warm bodies in positions let people positions while they let people govern at govern themselves, because at the reason you the same time, the reason you elect leaders is because you believe can find believe they can find a pragmatic middle ground to represent everyone, whether or not conservative not youre conservative or laboun not youre conservative or labour. Power, labour. When youre in power, you everyone. You represent everyone. Mean then, that but does that mean then, that theres a sense also that manifestos not been kept to manifestos have not been kept to because it just because we voted . It might just because we voted . It might just be this is because we are be that this is because we are in an election year. So maybe the is clamouring to have the public is clamouring to have their say, it also speaks to their say, but it also speaks to this idea that manifesto promises arent being met. Its always going to be a balancing act, because in every country you have a manifesto that kind of is you waving a flag saying, this is what i will do on my crusade as leader. But when you get into power, like i said, you have to represent everyone, so you find out what is it i can get through towards that . That manifesto i pledged myself on the closest middle ground without ground i can get to that without alienating effectively other alienating effectively the other side population that side of the population that didnt me. So didnt vote for me. So any leader is always going to get a point that when they then do a like a, they what you like a, they collate what you achieved in achieved during your time in office. How did you meet office. How closely did you meet your markers, knowing that it is impossible meet all of them . Impossible to meet all of them . Think ministers do you think Prime Ministers do do that once they get do wish to do that once they get in office . To keep everyone happy all of the time . These big well, on many of these big issues weve been talking issues that weve been talking about for example, about this week, for example, you weve gender you know, weve got gender ideology cass review, ideology with the cass review, weve immigration leaving ideology with the cass review, weechr, immigration leaving ideology with the cass review, weechr, stopping ion leaving ideology with the cass review, weechr, stopping the leaving ideology with the cass review, weechr, stopping the small] the echr, stopping the small boats. Think fundamental boats. I think the fundamental problem in many western democracies elites democracies is that the elites who are presiding over the political system also the political system and also the cultural and a large chunk of the media elite to who shape the National Conversation dont actually represent the vast majority of people on these issues. So migration would be a great example. Well, we know great example. Well, we know that in more 80 of that in more than 80 of constituencies in this country, a majority of people want to dramatically the amount dramatically reduce the amount of immigration into britain. But we also know that the political elites in charge of westminster have been putting the pedal down on that issue, largely ignoring what they promised voters in their the their own manifesto. So the direct democrats would argue, and im with them on this one, actually, that when you get a really important issue to voters like brexit our relationship like brexit and our relationship with like migration, i with europe, like migration, i would also argue, what would also argue, like what were kids with were doing to kids with gender ideology, view at ideology, which in my view at least nothing short of child least is nothing short of child abuse. And we come back and abuse. And we can come back and talk that. But some issues talk about that. But some issues are so important people, they are so important to people, they actually to be taken out of actually need to be taken out of the daily weekly discussion in westminster. We need to westminster. And we need to decide as community, where do decide as a community, where do we go on that particular we want to go on that particular issue, how regularly, matt, would you have have those would you have to have those sorts of debates to try and keep more of the people happy, more of the time . Well, i mean, it depends. If you look at a democracy like switzerland, they have referendums on much more have referendums on a much more regular think, regular basis. I think, you know, other democracies know, other european democracies and france , theyve and netherlands, france, theyve had big referendums the had big referendums on the europe question. Weve had one on brexit, had one on av on brexit, weve had one on av reform, the election reform, changing the election system. I think it would be very plausible, reasonable for rishi sunak come say, look, sunak to come out and say, look, enough enough on this enough is enough on this question we control our question. We either control our own we dont. So what own borders or we dont. So what im going to do is, is take this to the british people and im going if you vote for me going to say, if you vote for me in the conservatives, i understand many out understand why many people out there be there would perhaps be distrustful pledge. But distrustful of that pledge. But if me within a if you vote for me within a week, will bring forward week, i will bring forward legislation to give you a referendum on leaving the echr and regaining control of your borders. Personally, i think that would be very popular among the voters. He needs to win back. Would you like to see that, judith . Judnh . I judnh . I think that certain things i do agree that certain things have to go to a referendum because they speak fundamentally to the way individuals live because they speak fundamentally to thiprivateidividuals live because they speak fundamentally to thiprivate lives uals live because they speak fundamentally to thiprivate lives every ve because they speak fundamentally to thiprivate lives every day, their private lives every day, like and the gender like the trans and the gender debate i do that debate 100. But i do think that you open floodgates with you open the floodgates with certain when you certain issues for when you have extremists within the population, because theres always on the one hand, always theres on the one hand, theres conversation about theres a conversation about everyday people feeling that i cant with this community. Cant deal with this community. I threats by that i feel under threats by that community referendum, community and a referendum, basically an basically gives you an opportunity power in opportunity to wield power in numbers to oppress them in a way that would only basically would cause a flare up, effectively a quote unquote, civil war. Never lived in a time weve never lived in a time when everything is so binary, like so Much Division like there is so Much Division now, could list five topics now, we could list five topics where you have to feel this where you you have to feel this way, and feel this way, way, and i would feel this way, and this maybe would good. And this maybe would be good. Then referendum culture, then in a referendum culture, can just push back you can i just push back on you a little on that . Little bit on that . Because when you look at issues were doing to issues like what were doing to kids puberty blockers and kids with, puberty blockers and medical transitioning, or when you look at immigration or when you look at immigration or when you stopping small you look at stopping the small boats, the, elite class boats, much of the, elite class would say, well, this is divisive. This is, you know, driving a wedge down, down the country and splitting 50 from 50. Im a pollster. I know what people think about these issues. And on many of them. And this is what worries elite on many what worries the elite on many of its 75, 80 of people of them, its 75, 80 of people saying, you know what we shouldnt call pregnant mothers, pregnant persons. You know what . We shouldnt allow 16 year olds to change their gender without medical supervision. You know what . Levels of what . We should reduce levels of migration because theyre too high. You know what . We should do whatever need do do whatever we need to do to control our borders. So the control our own borders. So the reason think the elites dont reason i think the elites dont want to open up this conversation like they did with brexit they know they brexit is because they know they will lose big debates. Could that be the truth . Could that be the truth . So. I think i dont think so. I think its halfway. Think there its halfway. I think that there should be more referendums when it comes to social issues. The trans conversation a very it comes to social issues. The trans issue sation a very it comes to social issues. The trans issue sation youre 3ry it comes to social issues. The trans issue sation youre talking social issue when youre talking about and structural about political and structural functionality. That is something that is obligated that the government is obligated to take the lead on. Thats why youre in that position. So i think you have to delineate like tax, maybe how you structure the nhs. Exactly. Exactly. Because with every individual, my life is very different to yours. When you talk about finances how we talk about finances and how we deal those practical deal with those practical realities. Social things are realities. But social things are m