Charities including Save the Children Oxfam and World Vision of issued a joint warning that the refugees have received little information at the deeply worried they will in effect become prisoners in Myanmar the aid agencies say they face the same fate as the rangers who did not flee rack and state living with no freedom of movement or access to health care or education police in Australia say one person has been killed and 2 hurt during a rush hour stabbing in Melbourne police initially responded to reports of a car on fire but arrived to find a man brandishing a knife but by all phone footage showed him stabbing wildly here to policeman the man was shot after efforts to restrain him failed superintendent Doug Clayton is a spokesman for Melbourne West Police the bomb response unit of course the area the m if they have distinguish a vehicle fire the bomb response unit is now making the same site police are not looking for any other offenders at this stage the investigation is ongoing there is no known link to terrorism at this stage we will keep an open mind as to whether there's any link will news from the b.b.c. The former 1st lady of the Philippines or melted markets has been found guilty of corruption during 2 decades a rule by her late husband President Ferdinand Marcos an arrest warrant has been issued and she could face years in jail but Mrs Marcos can appeal against the ruling making further delays likely in a case that was 1st filed in 1991 South Korea's president moon g.m. Has sacked his 2 most senior economics officials following poor growth figures the finance minister and the presidential chief of staff of policy have both been replaced President moon has come under increasing criticism over the government's economic policies. A Japanese television station has canceled an appearance by the popular South Korean band b.t.s. After controversy of routine shirt worn by a band member it appears to celebrate the u.s. Atomic bombing of Japan in the 2nd World War Michael Bristow reports the t. Shirt has a picture of the mushroom cloud from a nuclear bomb it also shows coup in celebrating their liberation from Japan he was warned by the b.t.s. Band member g. Ming last year the Japanese music t.v. Station made it clear it had canceled the performance because of the controversy caused by the tea shared in response the band has apologized to fans the 7 member South Korean boy band is popular in Japan and that is across the world but this incident shows how Japan's wartime aggression still sours relations between the 2 neighboring countries the personal belongings of the late British physicist Stephen Hawking have raised $3000000.00 at an auction in London his essays and awards as well as his Ph d. Thesis was sold to raise money for charity his wheelchair on which the motor neuron disease victim depended for much of his adult life was sold for half a $1000000.00 Professor Hawking died in March at the age of $76.00 and those are the latest stories from b.b.c. News. Welcome to hard talk on the b.b.c. World Service with me Sarah Montague the u.s. Midterm elections were a mixed picture for President Trump Democrats took control of the House of Representatives and that won allow them to block the president's legislative agenda as a leader Donald Trump has been accused of dividing the country and now Congress is split my guest today is one of America's best known and celebrated military leaders General Stanley McChrystal led special forces operations in Iraq and commanded the u.s. And ice after it's in Afghanistan he lost his job after disparaging comments his team had made about President Obama's administration were reported in a magazine article since then he studied and taught the principles that make good leaders effective So what kind of leadership does he think the United States needs now General Stanley McChrystal welcome to heart talk Thanks for having me divided country now divided Congress what would you advise your commander in chief to do given the situation that faces him well I think if the short term view was one of the 2016 elective an election and then another short term view was trying to hold on to what he had in the 2018 elections I think ordinarily is to take a long term view and a long term view means he's got a fair amount about his legacy but about American values about America's sustainability as a working democracy I think it means you've got to bring people together I think that means you've got to get America to have a national conversation on leadership because I think we have a crisis of leadership right now and if we don't fiction we're going to be in trouble Ok so do you see him doing not a glimmer yet and I actually don't see enough leaders in America from either side that act there's a little bit of rhetoric about it but actually acting in that way and I think it's time Ok but you talk about a crisis in leadership why well I think that we've got a number of activities one we. Incentivized individual behavior in politicians because parties are weaker and politicians can push their own personal agenda and wellbeing I think we've also incentivized very extreme on the left and right we put people's emotions we use fear we use those things which excite people to generate support and excitement at the end of the day you've got to move to the middle because it working democracy depends upon an informed electorate that seemed gauged unwilling to compromise so because you have I mean you've written about leaders your latest book leaders myth and reality would you describe President Trump as a successful leader it would be impossible to argue that he has not been successful by his metrics he's been elected president of the United States he has gathered power within his party he's been able to push a number of items as his agenda so he's been effective at doing that he's been successful by a certain set of metrics I don't believe that those are the metrics or the goals that are best for the United States but you can argue that he's had success Ok so I knew success has he been a good leader you could say Well no well if you say again it's effective or not it's one measure good or bad I do not believe that he's been the leader America needs I think the leader America needs really comes from inside Americans we need to look in the mirror we need to decide who each of us are that we need to decide what our nation is what's our character what are our values how do we want to be viewed in the world what do we want to leave for our grandchildren we need to make those decisions and then we need to decide what our leader should be and then from that you can go who our leader should be Ok but you will know that there are millions of people who recognise Donald Trump for the leader that they feel they haven't had there's been a frustration with the failure of. I don't use the word elites in American politics for decades almost since the end of the 2nd World War the Vietnam War the financial crisis there's a large part of American electorate that feels left behind economically feels threatened socially and culturally and feels hopeless politically and they have a point it's an absolutely legitimate view. As a friend of mine once said though he thinks Donald Trump is the wrong answer to the right question and I think that's true I think it is fair to question our political system it's fair to question the direction we were going I just think that we in this particular case we followed someone who's more popular than long term leader for the Ok well let's look at one of his policies and his approaches in the run up to the election which was the way that he's dealing with the thousands of people coming through Central America to the United States the caravan as it's called he's referred to it as an invasion is it in my view no. Because as a military man an invasion represents something different well it creates a mental image when we think of an invasion we think of a column of Russian tanks going along a highway to crush our lines or take over the country that's the image that people get and it brings a certain emotion or a willingness for certain action nations must control their borders actually the United States of America like any nation should control our borders nobody should be able to cross our borders without our permission and agreement it's hard to do but that should be the goal period that said Nations should be compassionate we should have affective immigration laws when you see a column of people that's made up of women children and young men who want to get across to avoid danger in Guatemala and Honduras it's hard to consider them in. Baiters Ok Now you talked about the importance of a nation should be able to control its borders President Trump has sent thousands or will ultimately send he says 15000 u.s. Soldiers to the border to control aids what there's been some pushback from from various senior military figures would you be among them I don't think it's the move that I would recommend I think it also plays to emotion and I actually think it was designed to go before the midterm elections to meet with the idea of invasion of this caravan but it's actually should be viewed separate from should we control our border I think that should be a debate that's something that we as a nation should do but when you send a bunch of troops down to the border and there are some legal imitation of what they can do you need to make sure that you explain to the American people that this isn't a classic invasion and our soldiers aren't going to man the ramparts and shoot the invaders because that's inaccurate Ok big step we know that President Trump has said I'll tell you this anybody throwing stones rocks like they did in Mexico where they badly have police and soldiers in Mexico we will consider that a firearm. Implicit in that is the idea that they might be shot at Well I think it would be dramatically tragic to put soldiers in a position where they potentially shoot immigrants moving forward Ok and that is where this is I mean it's with his fist fascinating it is extraordinary issue but there are senior military figures General James who oversaw the effort to build the Iraqi army and police in the end you'll know these fake as he said the real issue is where the military is being used for partisan political purposes it's dangerous because it will political politicize the use of force in ways that democracy should avoid now he said that actually just about the sending of the troops and he's right I think to do because right I think that we've used military force for political reasons you know as far back in history as you could record a vast said it doesn't make it right particularly for a symbol like this for internal domestic politics I'm critical of this move but what I want to make sure we don't do is we don't then say well we shouldn't control the borders of course we should we need to make sure that's clear sometimes we get around the political rhetoric forget it can you imagine the image would come up if immigrants came forward and we use physical force against them I mean what it would do to the United States' reputation in the world to the morality of the soldiers put in that position is unconscionable Ok so you have and you have said you've written if what the what you had said to your own troops in situations like in Iraq and Afghanistan if when you get on the ground the order we gave you is wrong execute the order we should have given you right if you were in a situation where you were controlling troops on the Mexican border would you effectively defy the president's order all soldiers have a responsibility not to a base in the illegal orders and I would consider shooting innocent civilians an illegal order there are rules of engagement put out. If an order is not illegal but it. Just not very smart leaders have a responsibility to contest that order to go back up the chain of command and say this doesn't make sense. They don't have the right to not follow that order just disagree with policy right but we've already seen that haven't they at least certainly from relatively senior figures that we hear of him in the White House we know from Bob Woodward's book that White House aides have been sourcing presidential orders we know that someone also you know Well Secretary of State General James Mattis according to Bob Woodward when there was a chemical attack believed to be by the Syrian leader and President Trump said Let's kill him let's go in let's kill a lot of them. Jim Mattis General Mattis is reported as saying once he'd hung up the phone we're not going to do any of that we're going to be much more mission I don't know any more about it than there are more troops in there but that's the right approach is that well if it's illegal you don't you have a responsibility not to do it if it is bad policy and you disagree with that you should argue with it you should make it can or claim if you can't live with it you should resign if you just find that it's you think it's not a good idea but the military can't have the decision whether or not to implement the orders of the civilian leadership of the government the civilian leadership must control the military so the military doesn't pick and choose what it wants to do the military must follow illegal orders because if it doesn't then suddenly we end up in a strange situation where the military actually considers itself the leadership of the country and that's not the American constitution right now you experienced when you were leading operations laterally in Afghanistan and prior to that number of experience what you called an unfortunate deficit of trust between the White House and the Department of Defense and this was over the time there was talk about sending more troops a surge of troops to Afghanistan you said if it did that that loss of trust or that absence of trust. That the effects what costs in want in the lives Well it's hard to put a metric on it but the reality is it makes everything harder and therefore potentially costly in terms of lives because what happened was with the new arrival of the Obama administration in January of 2009 there was some misunderstanding there were requests from troops that were tabled right after the Obama team took office and they naturally recoiled at the request I was in the Pentagon at the time and that request had been around for several months and the Pentagon had not put it forward because they didn't want to do it before the election they thought it would be unfair to a new president to make a decision like that before the election with the result that they put it right after the the new team comes in well it felt an awful lot to the White House team like a power play Brand new administration comes in and the Department of Defense asked for more troops it wasn't that in my view and I was you know in a place to see from the Pentagon but it started this mistrust that built up over the bugs and the sad thing is it's was good people on both sides trying to do the right thing but when that mistrust builds up it's hard to bridge that gap when you aware of both sides at the time is it just with hindsight that you've got to come to the understanding I was aware and others that the mistrust was building I have a better perspective on it now but you could feel it and you you actually could have sympathy from both sides or say hey we're just trying to do our job do what we think is done but this was of course in Afghanistan so one of the metrics must be lives well that lives success of the mission there always tied together Ok well let's talk about the success of the mission but before we do you even written about Afghan it's I mean you you were actually in control for a year prior to that you were much longer in Iraq and yet you said Honest on that the mission affected you in a way that it didn't you develop strong feelings for the Afghans and Afghans and then they. Why the Afghans are a a people that really can India themselves I mean they've had a very difficult 30 plus years if you go back to the mid seventy's and when you actually get close to Afghans you see people who have been subject to civil war subject to invasion from the Soviet Union subject to Pakistani operations inside their country they've tried to put their society back together but it's really hard Are there people who are corrupt is their inefficient government all that's true but you actually watch soldiers die for their country policemen men guard posts you you watch politicians try to make it work and up close it's much more sympathetic than it looks from afar far and yet here we are $21817.00 is off to the United States remove the Taliban regime and according to a u.s. Congressional agency the Taliban controls more territory now than at any point since they were moved all that time ago and the levels of debt. 20000 this year of civilians incompetence on all sides again a record high Afghanistan has been a failure of the United States as well as for Afghanistan well you can't claim it's a ruling success I'm not going to stand here and tell you that it's been very frustrating but if you go back to 2001 of the Taliban regime prior to that the number of females in school now for the last 17 years are skyrocketed there's a young generation of males as well there's been opportunities there have been opportunities that have been created amidst all the problems that I think has changed the underlying foundation of what Afghanistan is I don't think the future looks like the past I don't think very many people want to go back to a pre-nup 11 Afghan Taliban run. Regime in the Taliban has changed itself so well even though there are all these attempts at talking and bringing. The Taliban back into government you don't see that as a backward step Well if I see it as a challenge I am telling you that Afghanistan is an extraordinary difficult challenge and I'd probably biased but I will tell you I don't see it as something that we should just automatically walk away from because I think the Afghan people deserve better and do you think that that at the moment is the intention that that an United States and others basically want a way out I think there's an awful lot of people who like a way out and I think that causes the Afghans to have tremendous apprehension remember after the defeat of the Soviets in 1909 the United States and others basically turned our back on Afghanistan we said Ok problem solved Soviets are out and if the Afghans had lost 1200000 people fighting against the Soviets and in very minds they had fought our Cold War into me as our surrogates we'd given some arms and money and yet you have somebody like the former British ambassador to Kabul Sherrod keep a coach he said what we're doing essentially is cultivating a lot went in the jungle the question is what happens when the gardeners I mean do you when the government leave with to finish the quote but do you sympathize with that because that feels sound you're sounding sentimental about it but the reality is that practically What difference can the United States and others again I am sort of mental about it I know the ambassador could make a hardcore business decision we don't invest good money after bad we do that stuff get up close to the Afghan people turn your back and say Ok we're out of here we don't care now I'm not for thousands of troops there I'm not for billions of dollars I think we've got to get a negotiated settlement but we also have got to be compassionate about how we think about the world and if we do walk away and the Taliban regime takes over and al-Qaeda is invited back then we have a political problem that goes back to the pre 911 problem and that puts politicians in a difficult position Ok Well let's turn to a parallel story all American intervention not