Lets start with the sizzle before we get to the steak. Are you gonna run for president . Just got an f from you actually. applause Thomas Haden Church, nice to see you. Thank you evan. May i say it is nice to see your mug back on television. Oh, in a, in a [evan] in a series. Weekly fashion. In a weekly fashion. Thank you. cause you were there and then you left us and went into the big fancy hollywood thing and then you came back to tv. Yeah, a number of people have commented to me about that, that theyre enjoying seeing me on a weekly basis. Right. And hbo you know, its sort of the premiere place its not tv, its hbo right . Isnt that the schtick . Well also television has changed right . I mean this is a cliche almost, but tv and movies have flopped or at least tv has raced past movies as the place where you can really do high art. Amazingly creative and interesting stuff. Yeah and i think that obviously hbo, but all the other premium cable netflix, amazon, theres just so much more freedom in the storytelling because you can do, you can just expand it like as ive been promoting and doing a lot of press for divorce these last few months, to me its a five hour movie. It really is. Just broken up into 10 minute pieces. We, thats just the way, everybodys approach to it was not really as a series. It was just, were telling a five hour story about this family. Well it seems to me that the freedom creatively, narratively, i mean you know the whole line about well on hbo you can curse, or on hbo you can show nudity. Im thinking about the first time we see you in this series. First time we see you, we actually see Sarah Jessica parker, your costar first. Shes getting herself ready in the mirror, and you walk in and you have, i guess its a coffee can it is. A coffee can. And you say to her didnt you hear me knocking on, shes in the bathroom. Didnt you hear me knocking on the door for 20 minutes or 20 minutes ago, no. Well you needed to get into the bathroom it turns out, and you went downstairs to the other bathroom and your daughter was in the other bathroom, and you come back up with this can into which you defecated in the garage. Correct. audience laughs so youre holding this can. That is the first we see of you. Thats not some cbs or nbc material right there. Thats only on cable do you get that. They, Sharon Horgan is the creator and then paul simms, whom i knew from way back in the 90s on nbc. [evan] right i mean a veteran of this whole they, they had a different scene there and i suggested that to them because its something that a friend of mine actually was forced to do. Has to be based on something right . And i who would come up with that . Yeah, so i. You know i just suggested it. They thought it was very funny, and i said you know do you mind if i just sort of like scheme it out . And then you guys can format it or whatever. You know i am a writer, but i didnt want to be that presumptuous, but i did. I mean pretty much wrote the scene. David, whom youve met. David that i your good friend. Yeah yes, that i when i did the hall of fame hosting. David and i wrote it, and they loved it exactly the way it was and just put it in, and then there was other, it was such a collaborative just jumpstart on the pilot. I mean i read it. Sarah jessica sent me the script in a letter you and she had worked together previously. On a film called smart people. And she sent it to me. She said look, i know you dont do tv. You havent done tv forever, but would you please read this and at least talk to me about it, and of course i was delighted. Shes a delightful person. So i did, and i said you know, can, how collaborative will this be . And lets just start going through the paces of it, and they, hbo and everybody was just they were all in and i brought a lot of ideas. You had notes and correct. How do i change the not just about my guy, about just a lot of how the story would be told. Are you a difficult person to work with do you think . Youve done this long enough now that youre probably selfaware. Im very selfaware. I dont think im difficult, but i do and it is my reputation. I come with a lot of ideas. And i will defer. If someone presents something that seems more authentic, or or whatever just more, kind of more aligned with the Human Experience of whats going on with the individual or the family, in this case the family and the husband and wife. I thought this first scene, i mean again you say well, its based on something but right. I have to tell you, i thought that the tension in that first scene, i mean people who have been in long term relationships, married or not, you know the workaday realities of those relationships, i kind of thought you guys got it. I thought that first scene, i mean thats obviously a very specific thing, but that scene and every scene that ive watched since, it feels very real and it feels uncomfortable and thats how i know it feels real. Marriage is hard, relationships are hard, and youre getting at that. We never set out to make the show just nonstop entertaining. Right for one thing its called a comedy, but you know its a comedy of a sort. Yeah, theres a lot of really dramatic, especially the episode that aired on sunday night. The christmas episode. Christmas episode right yes. Some, some. Some fairly hostile exchanges, but theres also some very poignant moments i think. And you know we all agreed as i started to say, it was never going to be nonstop entertaining. We wanted it to be nonstop compelling. But we wanted moments and i think were succeeding thus far. We wanted moments that were just too intimate and ugly or pathetic or, or or funny. Just things that were almost, almost as youre saying you just kind of want to look away for a minute, and as ive gone through promoting a lot of people that ive talked to about the show, have gone through divorce. And theyre like, they have said it was difficult for me at first because i was afraid i might have to relive certain scenes in my own life. People, and i have to be fortunate in that im not divorced. Ive been married for a long time, you know 24 years, almost 24 years. 23 years, that now im dead now. Right, its over now. Thats the end. Now it causes Uncomfortable Conversations. I think this show actually is causing Uncomfortable Conversations in happily married couples, right . Its like oh my god. And it causes you to have, i think thats absolutely great. Now the character you said you had done more when you gave notes, or gave suggestions where you then build your character, but in fact that character felt to me, ive known you for a little while. It felt like you. Your dry sense of humor, your laconic personality which has been seen in other roles you played, feels like you so im wondering did you drive this character, or did it look like this on paper . I would say that from those early conversations before we shot the pilot, i would say that yes, i principally am the pilot of roberts story. Youre kind of playing you, sort of. I dont think im playing me. Youve never been divorced yourself right . No. Yeah. But i do think at this point in my life, the sort of aggregate of observations, or the aggregate observations about divorced couples, about divorced friends, my own family. The divorces that have gone on in my own family. You know you just sort of, you have this fear or you know this rotation of observations and things that youve witnessed and its just all in there. And i cant say specifically why i made certain choices in playing, in the way that i played robert in certain scenes, but its just, again whatever, i just live inside this guy. And thats the way its been for me. Every role youve ever played right . But really specifically started with sideways. Because in sideways, we were given, Paul Giamatti and i were given the opportunity to rehearse for two weeks with Alexander Payne which is almost unheard of in movies. Id never done it before. Never been asked to do it before, and never told i had the opportunity. So this, the same thing again, a five hour movie. You spend a lot of time, and in new york, because i live in texas, in new york all i really ever, for four months im just waiting to work. You just work right . Thats all i do. Im just waiting to work, and i came home periodically to see my kids and you know, tend to the ranches and you know businesses and stuff that i have in texas, but for the most part when im there im constantly going over the script every night all weekend. Its, i do become sort of obsessed with it and you become that guy. Let me ask you about Sarah Jessica parker compared to you as somebody to work with because you have been, its wrong to say the quintessential character. I dont even know what that means, the quintessential character actor, but you play a whole variety of parts over time and you become those people and from one part to another, i dont have to shape my concept of you from the last part to this part. Shes carrie bradshaw, period paragraph. A defining role of her career, a defining role of television and so to look at her now, after that, even though shes done things since then, i look at her and i go oh look Thomas Haden Church is with carrie bradshaw, its like hard not to see that, so i wonder what it was like to work with her and if you get any sense of her own approach to this character versus yours. When we shot smart people, which is a picture that i did. Its dennis quaid and ellen page and sj and myself, were the principle characters. I, that was right after sex and the city had ended, or about the time that it ended, and the but and they hadnt even shot that first movie. It was it was all pretty fresh. But i, that experience, i got to witness her completely build a different character. One that was completely removed from sex and the city, and in fact, the actress that was gonna do it was rachel weisz, and she had signed on and you know rachel weisz and sj i think pretty far apart in their career choices. But rachel had become pregnant, and it was just not gonna work out for her to do it. And sj stepped in kind of at the last minute, but i thought she embodied that character and maybe its not a picture thats familiar to people, but she played this doctor you know who has this relationship with dennis quaid, completely different, more dramatic, more complex. Much more dramatic than sex and the city, and but i do agree with you that one of the challenges in promoting the show, and if youve read the reviews, a lot i think that the, not so much the audience, but a lot of critics have had trouble embracing this isnt bouncy, cheerful carrie bradshaw. And bouncy cheerful, playful, sex, sexy stories. They almost want to make it out to be a sequel, like that somehow these shows are connected in some way and theyre totally, theyre just totally different right . They bring up sex and the city, i would say in virtually every review that ive read. Critics are terrible, we can just stipulate that. But i mean, but im just saying, i think it has been you know to separate from the umbilicus has been difficult. Well i think that again, well sort of stop here in a second on the show, but i think that the casting, the two of you is Molly Shannon from saturday night live, who is actually playing a very different character than you would expect Molly Shannon to play. A terrific dramatic actress, i mean and i think that molly, she flirts so closely with i think true genius. Not just as a comedic performer, which embodied all those characters, but the dramatic work that molly does is so specific. And in this show particularly, in some ways she breaks out of it and she is this picture out right now, other people which everyone says is one of the best pictures of the year. Yeah and she, she got huge buzz out of sundance when the movie premiered. Well good for her. Yeah and i really hope that it catches, it catches fire like and of course tracy letts is in this. Tracy letts is a Pulitzer Prize winning playwright of august osage county who people know as an actor probably mostly from homeland, but has acted a fair amount. And you know, nice to see Robert Forster working. Yeah, yeah. Terrific. He plays her dad. We exchanged Marlon Brando stories. Well his very first picture was reflections in a golden eye with brando in the mid 60s, and then i worked with brando eer in well his very first picture wa picture called free money. Ye about a good 30 years apart. Same brando . Do you have similar stories . Very similar brando stories. But he worked with him when he was at the zenith. How nice to be able to say i have a brando story. Yeah. Right, from a hollywood standpoint. Youve been at this a long time havent you . Its gonna be. I moved to la in jan, itll be 28 years in january. That ive been a professional actor. But before that, voiceovers, its been over 30 years. And i bet youve continued to do at odd times. A little yeah. Well you have that voice, right . Some people have that voice and some people dont. I do. Yeah. audience laughs the world has changed. Not only the literal world, but the world that youve worked in has changed. Hollywood has changed. I mean we alluded to one part of it which is that the Distribution Channels for work are vastly different, but im just wondering as you look back on all this, how is your life now as an actor materially different than it was when you were doing Episodic Television or Something Like that . 25 years ago. Materially different, you know. When i moved out there i moved from dallas, and you know it was the, it was kick it up. You know, tear up the streets and try to find work. And i, i principally went out there just to kind of get into the big game of voiceovers, but i had done a small part in a picture. Not a small part, it was a lead in a small picture that i was cast in out of dallas, and so when i moved in january of 89 i slept on the couch in my buddys apartment in long beach. Its the cliche right . Yeah, and just started, but i was fortunate enough. I started getting voiceover work right away, and then i was cast in a tv movie in a lead for abc. Horrible, horrible. Called what . Ready, you ready for this . Go go hit us with it. To protect and surf. audience laughs oh really, great. We can all appreciate to protect and surf. Didnt they already make that movie as point break . No no no, this was actually before point break. It was, okay. We were undercover cops working the beach. As surfers. It was like baywatch. Right, or similar. Horrifying, horrifying. Come on everybody probably has one of those. Everybody probably has one of those. Well i had hair down to about here, and there was, there was a scene where my partner and i kick the door, and i, i didnt even realize i was doing it and the director came you know cut, cut cut cut. Hes like tom every time you step through the door, and i have my gun drawn, he goes every time you step through the door youre flipping your hair back over your shoulder. He goes stop doing that. laughs was this a part you took and were there other people in this in a similar position that were sort of just Getting Started in the business . There was only one actor, and god rest him, he passed away a long time ago, unfortunately. He was, he actually found out while we were shooting that he was hiv positive, and he died only three years later. He was a wonderful young actor named david oliver. He was the only established guy. The rest of us yeah, just all neophytes trying to kick the door of hollywood, and but you know you get footage and you know and it was a tv movie that. It was the only thing that my grandmother, my fathers mother, its the only thing she ever got to see. She passed away right after the movie aired, but i actually got to fly back to harlingen and it aired and i watched it in the hospital with my grandmother, and i thought i want to say it was like august, september 89 but she was a big surf cop fan . Yeah. audience laughs my grandmother, big proponent of surfing police officers, but you know literally go to the precinct you know with the zinc on your nose. This but this is again, classic hollywood story. Go out to the west coast, im gonna make my way. You take a part in something crappy thats forgettable to most people, but of course you laugh about it all. But you know, but the percentage of people who actually make it is small, and the percentage of people who make it and who actually go on to be nominated for Academy Award or win an emmy, or do the kind of work. Youve not done, i mean not every movie that you do like anybody else is high art, but youve done a significant amount of significant work, and thats actually something that again its a percentage of a percentage right who get to do that. Yeah i, you know, again like all of those actors, i mean there was like 10 actors in that thing. I dont even think any of them are still in the business. Im almost certain none of them are. I know one of thems a baptist preacher in nashville. So hes definitely not in the movie business. Yeah hes not making that hollywood money for sure no and along the way you know its like i was fortunate, it kind of started this downhill run from that. I started getting like 21 jump street and then i was fortunate enough. I was cast in a, well its actually i was cast in 10 episodes of china beach, and i was fired after the First Episode for kissing dana delany a little bit too aggressively. And dana this is a true story . Apparently dana had no problem with it. cause i just ran into dana at the premiere of divorce last month. Dana had no problem with it, but she was secretly dating the executive producer of the show, and he asked her and shes like yeah you know, he was pretty passionate when he kissed me and that was it, but the good thing that came out of that, first of all they had to pay me for all 10 episodes. audience laughs that was good for a struggling actor, but my agent was like we gotta get you back on the horse. The very next audition he sent me to was cheers, which i got and they were casting wings cheers led to wings. And i so if only you had not, if only you had not overkissed dana delany. Dana and i discussed this event one month ago. Is that right . The film work youve done is a preferred form of art to tv or not . Whats your . Yeah i do. If you could just pick, what would you no i prefer film because i did from 89 to 99 it was almost singularly television. I mean i did wings for six seasons, i did ned and stacey for two seasons, and then i had a two year deal at abc disney to exec produce and cocreate something with a great, great writer and partner, a guy named dave mandel, whos a legendary snl writer, seinfeld, and is still like