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Well there's a lot of ways to look at doppelganger is. And I just don't know which way our guest Aaron Sagers is going to go with that as a paranormal reporter is somebody who reports on nerd culture somebody who also not only researches these topics on his own but interviews the people who are doing some of the heavy lifting out there I'm really curious what Aaron Sagers is going to be offering tonight I know when the opportunity came up earlier this week to have Aaron Sagers on I think that it went roughly like you know Aaron Sagers wants to come out and talk about doppelganger I love the subject of double gators but you know Lisa had me at Aaron Sagers So we'll get to that next on coast to coast am this is Ian Punnett with. The world is full of sounds odd. 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It's been a while since Aaron Sagers has been on coast to coast am too long Aaron thank you for reaching out to us. Yes Thanks so much for having me tonight and I'm happy to be back time so perfectly and you didn't you could not have known that I've always been interested in the subject of doppelganger and and what I think of what I perceive anyway is being some the kind of harkens back to a conversation we had many years ago and coast to coast is is how often does like the convergence of a topic it just suddenly starts popping up it just starts bubbling up in all these different platforms and this is one you know kind of Jordan peels movie us was touching on that and did you have a chance to interview Jordan Peele I understand why I have not actually spoken to him about this yet however I I like you I've seen this convergence of this topic it was just sort of popping up everywhere and so you know I decided to research it and do a deep dive on it and published a story in The Hollywood Reporter and Jordan Peele promoted that that article so that was quite flattering and so I apparently touched on something close to his heart so that's a reason I asked was we had it on the. Top of the fold here on coast to coast am dot com was your interview with Jordan Peele on the film us but you're saying but you did but you were contact with him and he was so I'm I'm fascinated by this idea when you talk about doppelganger How are you defining the subject. Well you know it's interesting because I think sort of the modern definition of the doppelganger is really someone that is a double I mean in pop culture right now you know we're seen anyone that you watch a movie like The Princess which on Netflix and it's a character that looks precisely like you or when you take part in sort of the $29.00 apps or $29.00 websites it's you know finding the celebrity that looks like your exact double that right out of how we view it. Now but the origins of maybe it's a shape shifter maybe it's an into t. Or even a fairy or or person perhaps it is a spirit an omen of bad things to come like you're seeing a version of yourself that is a sign of bad thing they're about to befall you in a separate They're still I think that's the To me that's what I that was my original understanding of the doppelganger was actually a projection of ourselves and perhaps the scariest notion of that was it's a projection of ourselves that we cannot control yet so. That's a no that's just a little different so that's the that idea that it's not just a not just a harbinger of bad news or something like that but it might actually be like a representation of the wrestling like a split within us and part of us is trying to break away perhaps even distanced themselves from the the spirit base or the body you know home of the of the of our soul which is trying to get away from us for something that we're doing are not doing in our lives. Yeah and that I mean that certainly is represented in and folklore and so like so much of the mythology of the doppelganger I mean it's evolved over time different cultures sort of apply different meanings to it but that is certainly you know one of the variations of it is that it is ourselves it is ourselves it's our the one who goes twice it is ourself trying to break away. And I I personally I am fascinated by the idea of. You know certain Irish and Scandinavian folklore that that suggests that it could be you know something presenting itself as you not the pure version of you but something presenting itself as you for nothing Arius purposes and how crazy is that idea that there could be someone that looks like you out there. Either trying to confront you personally or out there doing something. Quite bad quite villainous and then you get the blame for it well that's where I believe that's what I'm getting that to this is that then that that concept of doppelganger it may actually be the the you that you're trying to repress and this part of you break free from that and so we perceive it as mischief but it really is perhaps what did the our our desires and supplemented it where we're actually doing what we want to do but we can't face that that's kind of the that idea of the shadow self that I mentioned last hour with with young that we we are most obsessed with that thing which we deny ourselves that part of ourselves that we're trying to hold back and that maybe the legends of doppelganger starts from some projection of ourselves and I and I even like i even as I say it I know it sounds crazy but like you know the story of John Donne you know the Renaissance poet John Donne you know I'm talking right yes so yes he is his own biography has a story of his wife's doppelganger this getting him when he was in Paris. She she appeared to him holding a baby at the same time that his wife was back in England and that they had just lost a child she had given birth to a stillborn child in England while he was in Paris and suddenly his wife is standing there or a doppelganger of his wife standing there holding a child and and it was it was like a projection of her sadness that reached all the way across the continent and he he saw it I mean I think it's the story goes he tried to speak to the woman and then and then it was gone and then the only later on did he find out that the child had survived birth his wife did so it wasn't like a ghost it wasn't his wife didn't die and in labor but the but but the child did and that's how somehow that was how he they connected over all that space that idea of by location aspect of the doppelganger Yeah and you know there were stories along with that I think it was the spiritualist Robert Dale Owen he wrote a book called footfalls on the boundary of another world this was an $1860.00 and he talked about that done story he also talked about. A bunch of other like well known people during the time that were experiencing their own doppelgangers and then the one that is most fascinating I think is perhaps right up there with Dunn and Abraham Lincoln apparently experiences on doppelganger as well but there was the tale of a school teacher named Emily Seiji and she was haunted by her her doppelganger over the course of 16 years and it wasn't it wasn't a moment of bad omen or any kind of prophecy but it was this woman that just was seen constantly around her and it led to her getting. Fired from from schools free didn't like she got fired because of what the doppelganger was doing yet Well yeah and like it's not good business when you're saying like oh Miss Miss say gee I just saw you in the playground and now you're here and you know the kids were getting to. You know I but. I hadn't really thought of it that way but I had the weirdest experience of the day I mean I know this is not a doubling or so I mean but I was ever had one of those moments where you see somebody and you you register like exactly what they're wearing this guy had sort of an unusual outfit on and his boots were not tied at the ankle they were loose the tongue was hanging out kind of from the from the boots and he was stepping through slush on his way to a convenience store and the and I I saw him and looking what I was what I was looking I was sort of see whether any slush would get down into his boots as he was stepping over and I thought Oh that would be awful and he didn't but I mean I noticed him and I registered it is like that guy about literally like I swear he was like 60 seconds later I pull up to my parking space and I get out and the guy who looks exactly like him I was like you know like all those cartoon takes Lunacon a moment and he had the boots on the whole bit and he was walking in a completely different direction away from that convenience store he wasn't destroyed like how did he would had to have like run around the block to get back to where I saw him and I thought well I must have had it must have taken longer than I realized to park but that was a really freaky like you have a twin Do you like about 100 yards in that direction I didn't say anything because I thought he thought I was crazy but I was but you know I mean those those moments like that where you see somebody and then like seconds later you see them again and I think what is that about it's not deja vu maybe that's doppelganger or you know what I think about sort of this this very 21st century I guess version of the of the classic album Bangerz when I have those experiences I almost kind of wonder like was there a glitch in the matrix Yeah right exactly you know where we just sort of seen the same character because. It is you know a software bug you know right yeah I get that at the Matrix exactly informed that that understanding a little bit of the idea that somehow they're just somehow the sum electronically controlled and somebody accidently hit rewind or something if there's like we're seeing that tape again I can't explain it but it is truly freaky I will look forward to when we take calls coming up I will really look forward to people talking about topple ganger experiences because I know that we're not the only ones who are interested in this and this other people have got to be experiencing it in some way have you ever run into the whole thing where somebody says that they know you from something else Yeah and and sometimes people are so when distant about you know you say no I don't think that's me and yes I do have brothers but they don't really look at exactly like me and you try to you know be polite and say No no I don't think that's me but sometimes you are so when you stand about it that it almost is questioning your own reality maybe maybe you do know a version of me. I had I used to call that can't face because I for a long time I was growing up people say Hey did we go to camp together in there did you go to camp juat economy or whatever like nope never been there and but that's where it somehow and I thought is there and this is a like this is a totally separate thought from from doppelgangers and I want to get back to the doppelganger of classic myth and whatever pop culture research you're doing on this too. But have you ever considered like maybe there's actually just a finite number of ways in which genes can be rearranged and so that there really aren't you know we aren't the individual snowflakes that we think we are where there's nobody else like us and maybe there's 8 of us maybe there's you know maybe it's a genetically speaking we're a popular. Model maybe there's 14 of us out there that really do look exactly the same Yeah and that's actually that's an excellent point and there have been I think it was Cornell University they had a. Neurobiologist that did some studies on this and you know we essentially have limited genetic diversity and you know the sort of like you know notes musical notes like there seems like there's a lot of variety and there is you reach a point where things do just start popping up again so you know we and it's it's kind of tied into the individuality of our species I mean because you don't you may think your dog looks different than a lot of other dogs but there are a lot less diverse right humans so we do have diversity more diversity than other animals but still there are limitations to the diversity you know that's funny because you've got to figure maybe another dog looks at a dog that we think is looking identical goes what are you talking about they look nothing like. They do but. So anyway so again we're talking with Aaron figures we're talking about doppelganger So it's interesting that Jordan Peele use that as if the name roughly I haven't seen us I really liked his Oscar winning movie I thought it was great and I love his I love his comedy stuff I think Jordan feels true genius and I love how he's transitioned you know into this. Into the ought to are this really sort of Hitchcockian auk tour and I did not see that coming. From the Comedy Central stuff which I thought was really solid and you know usually funny but the stuff of those this I just I didn't know this side of him existed. Yeah and it's I think a lot of people were surprised when when get out came out I mean yes he I think he is brilliant. You know his comedy was brilliant but I think a lot of people were surprised with how how good he was beyond comedy I mean comedy itself is quite a challenging. Form to master but yet get out was amazing piece of horror and satire and with us I think he's showing that even more and it's definitely worth mentioning that he so he is behind the return of the Twilight Zone which is coming up very soon you're going to doppelganger is and us because there was a famous 1960 episode of The Twilight Zone called mirror image and it was about a woman that encountered her doppelganger and her sanity started to unravel and that actually informed people for us like he was somewhat inspired by that and. An odd bit of trivia behind that was that the idea came to Rod Serling who wrote the episode because he was in an airport and he saw a man from behind that was wearing the same clothes as him carrying the same briefcase and he you know he was wondering for a moment what if this man turns around and it's it's me it's me right well that would be really what I do like I heard that Jordan Peele is remaking Candy Man because oh yeah it had a big impact on him that was the 1st time he'd ever seen a black figure in a horror movie and he was like cool that you know represent all that but he was really I didn't happen to think any man was a very good movie didn't scare me a lot of Clive Barker's stuff doesn't really work for me I think it reads better than or never plays on the screen. And Candy Man was Ok he had some moments and I say that even though the. Woman who starred in it was a woman I knew in high school Virginia Madsen. June I was cooler and and so I mean it's a it's a it's a really it's a classic but I'm looking to forward to seeing whether Jordan Peele can actually make a good movie out of candy man because I didn't think any man was a great but a lot of people love