Ork day frame and good morning, you're listening to k.q.e.d. San Francisco and k.q. . We are North Highlands at 9 am From k.q.e.d. Public Radio in San Francisco. This is form. I'm Scott Shafer in today for Michael Krasny. Ever since the pandemic began and unemployment surged, California's unemployment development Department has been under fire. A huge backlog of claims outdated technology. A customer help Center deluged with calls a real mess. And now comes word that the e.t.d. Has sent out at least 38000000 pieces of mail, People's Social Security numbers on it, putting recipients at risk of identity theft. We'll hear about a recent state audit and get the latest on the bureaucratic Nightmare at the That's next on form right here after the news. Live from n.p.r. News. I'm Lakshmi saying President trumps a long shot quest to flipping the outcome of the election rest today on g.o.p. Allies in Michigan and Pennsylvania. Because both States are moving to certify their vote tallies in both States were called for President elect Joe Biden, N.P.R.'s Frank or Dhoni as reports as Trump's legal losses. Mount more allies are urging a man who hates to lose to give up this fight for the sake of his legacy and our democracy. The Trump campaign is vowing to appeal a scathing ruling by a federal judge who dismissed its latest lawsuit in Pennsylvania. More Republicans like Senator Pat Toomey, of Pennsylvania are calling on President Trump to move forward with the transition and former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, a Trump our I said this weekend on a.b.c. News. It's time for Trump to accept the election results. I've been a supporter of the President's I voted for him twice, but elections have consequences and we cannot continue to Act as if something happened here, but didn't happen, but most Republicans won't go that far, are doing Biden should receive some transition resources. But also Trump should be able to pursue legal challenges, Franco or Downey as n.p.r. News. You know, more than $100.00 National security officials, including some of the most senior members to service in Repub, or to serve in Republican administrations. Also supported by than are publicly demanding Republican Party leaders condemn President Trump's refusal to concede the race. The group is known as former Republican National security officials for Biden . Another pharmaceutical company is reporting positive results from late stage trials of its experimental coronavirus vaccine. N.P.R.'s Joe Palca says the latest, data come from Britain's Astra Zeneca from large trials in the u.k., South Africa, and Brazil. The vaccine comes from a partnership between the University of Oxford and the pharmaceutical giant Astra Zeneca. It prevented 70 percent of the cases of illness overall, but the results were a bit surprising and analysis showed that the vaccine was only 62 percent effective in the standard dose and 90 percent effective and a half dose. Scientists are still puzzling over this result, but the explanation could come from how People's immune system responds to the vaccine. The latest studies involved $24000.00 volunteers, an additional $60000.00 are being recruited from to pad Kenya, India and the United States. Joe Palca n.p.r. News, a Rep for the REG it on Star bad Bunny says a singer has tested positive for Corona virus a day after he won Big at the American Music Awards. The artist was scheduled to perform at the event, but canceled. However, he was able to present the Award for favorite Latin female artists remotely bad Bonnie, whose real name is beneath the Eunice Ocasio won favorite male artists and favorite Latin album. This is n.p.r. Live from k.q.e.d. News. 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The letter says more than $11000000.00, people across the West may be unable to pay their rent this winter State Senator Scott Wiener is among the signers. As is Assembly member David Chu. If we don't figure this out, we will not only see a massive wave of addictions, but will see US Guy rocketing wave of homelessness. The letter says that increased homelessness could cause coded 1000 to Spike even more in sports soccer the same as a earthquakes last, a sporting k.c. In a match, decided by a penalty kick. Shoot out. I'm Brian Watt k.q.e.d. News support this morning comes from Cal Performances at home, presenting Yo-Yo Ma in a stream for mayor Nov. 27th caliper Foreman says dot Org Support for n.p.r. Comes from a little passports, offering activity kits to help kids engaged and expand their minds to help keep kids in gauged and expand their minds. They'll explore France and Brazil and build a volcano on submarine from their kitchen table, little passports dot com,, and the listeners and members of k.q.e.d., Sacramento Valley after some morning fog mostly Sunny. The rest of today predicted highs $58.00 to $64.00 in the Valley clear and chilly Tonight. Gusty winds also after midnight, possibly up to 25 miles per hour. For the Bay Area some morning, cloudiness mostly Sunny. The rest of today highs in the upper Fifty's to the mid sixty's, mostly clear Tonight, partly cloudy in the South Bay lows in the upper Thirty's and the Forty's over night. Welcome to form. I'm Scott Shafer in today for Michael Krasny. Well, the State Employment Development Department or e.t.d. Is one of those agencies you don't think much about until you're unemployed in the of the agencies help as millions of people have found out since March, the agency is a bureaucratic mess. Yes, they've gotten millions of Californians unemployment benefits during the pandemic, but there are also Nightmare stories about unanswered phones in correct rejection of benefits. And last week, a state audit revealed that the e.t.d. Sent at least 38000000 pieces of mail with Social Security numbers on it. Putting the recipients hat, risk of identity fraud, and all this, Despite warnings about that very practice 20 months ago, this hour, the latest problems at e.d.t. And what's being done to fix them. And we begin with the California state Auditor. Elaine Hall, welcome to form. Thank you for having me. Well, tell US about this audit that came out late last week. It is actually, I believe, a follow up to another audit you conducted on e.t.v. Last year. Tell US what you found. Sure, absolutely. As a follow up, we issued the 1st report in March of 21000 and with everything that's been, happening recently with a.t.t., we thought it would be important to get out there and do a follow up particularly related to recommendations we made to try to protect Californians. So this follow up, audit looked at the same documents that we looked at back in the 2nd 21000 and reassure the 1st reports. And these are high volume documents, documents that are sent to claimants. Information that claimants send a d. And e. Responds and there we look at 10 high volume documents or forms and found that full s. Ascends are on these forms and they're going out in the mail. And as we have seen, oftentimes get lost in the mail sent to the wrong address and really puts Californians at risk. So we are very concerned that e.t.d. Has not modified these documents to remove those S ascends and use perhaps a unique modifier which is what we suggested over a year ago. And in fact, on your website, or at least on a letter that you sent, describing the findings of this audit. There are photographs of boxes and bins of mail from e.t.v. That have been sent back or missed a livered is that the concern that these forms are going out and they're not getting to the place they're supposed to go. And or they're getting stolen or like what exactly could be or is happening with this mail. It's all of the above. I mean we, we identified as you saw in the report, we saw boxes and boxes. And actually my staff looked at some of those, some of the returned mail and found examples where people had written on the outside the, on the low. This person doesn't live at this address. So clearly, Forms with full s.s. Sends for folks who have filed unemployment claims are going out to the wrong addresses and they can get into the wrong hands. And those folks, Unfortunately already are suffering from being unemployed. And may now be victims of identity theft. Well, you know, I don't want to mix up the various problems that the e.t.d. Has, but there was also an issue of fraudulent debit cards being issued. And I'm just wondering why would so many pieces of mail that are theoretically being is a response from the agency to people who have contacted the E D. D. Why are so many of them being sent to the wrong address? Well, I think it's similar to the situation we discussed in the report back in 2019. This is something a.t.t. Has known about for quite a long time. In fact, the members of the legislature communicate with each back in 2015 where they had constituents who were receiving mail similar to the recent situation that was not addressed to them. And they were concerned that again, there were folks that were, you know, perhaps being victims of identity theft. There was a problem back in 2015 with their mailing room where their machines, malfunctioned and basically a stuffed animal ups with multiple forms for multiple individuals. We talk about that in our 21000 report, and I think the same thing is occurring or has recently occurred. But even, you know, more substantial because of the volume claimants now and the volume of forms that are going out from the a.t.t. Mailing facilities. So you, as you said, you did warn or alert e.v.t. About this last year, so they've known about the problem. So when you did this follow up out of the you released last week and found the same thing. What did they say? I mean, what, why didn't they fix it? Well, that part of their discussion, and this was their discussion when we have The report again back in March of 2019 that they have a legacy system. They need to update the system and we said that is going to take way too long and that the projection then was 2000 and $24.00 and you've got to come up with interim solutions. And that's what we suggested in March of 1 teen. We had a sample of solutions for them and we thought an easy interim solution would be to use a unique modifier identify, you know, use a modifier that links that claimant with their social, but you don't have to use their social anymore on the forms. They really didn't have a good excuse or a good rationale for why they hadn't corrected these forms. In fact, when they notified US back in March of 2020 earlier this year, because they have to notify US in follow up periodically. And at that one, your response time from our March 1000 report, they said we're going to get these fixed in May of June of 2020. Well, they didn't get those fixed. And again, significant number of forms that are going out millions upon millions and that suspects millions of Californians. Well, absolutely, and I think your report says at least 38000000 pieces of mail. We only have 40000000 people in California. How much mail of a sending out right now there's multiple forms and documents that go to claimants' . So right there, there are, there were 38000000 and these are only the 10 highest volume forms. There are other forms they're sending out as well. But we focus on those 10. Now the other point that I think is important for your, your listeners to hear is we identified 3 out of the 10 documents. If you just fixed 3 documents, that's going to limit 90 percent of the problem and they didn't do it. So there's really no excuse for The nice failure to fix the situation. We're talking with going House, he's the California state Auditor. Her office just released a report on the latest and updated report really on the Employment Development Department here in California who's going to Be set by many, many problems. We've got a couple folks have tweeted, comments, I got realities, I check my claim Award letter from e.t.d. a Few days ago and Yup, my social security number was on it, at least it reached me a few months ago. Patricia tweets is Cal in California. They use the same systems as the federal government was created in the 1950 s. And willing to use the phrase, a generous one, a kind one legacy system. Kind of a euphemism. I mean, this is antiquated, right? This technology they are using. It is very, very antiquated and it will be a long term project as they said, to have to revise and update the system. But you, in the meantime, you can't ignore the risks that you're putting Californians to the risk of identity theft. You've got to come up with interim solutions at the same time you're working towards developing a New system. Yes it is. It is an archaic system. And California has, I think it's fair to say a Rotten record of acquiring New technology. I mean, they know that other agencies, parts of the state have acquired systems and spent millions and millions and millions of dollars on systems that didn't work properly. Right? That's correct. I mean, we did it a variety of different IP systems in California, and California really struggles and successfully updating our developing New i.t. Systems. But e.d.t. Is such an important function in California that, that this Department really needs to step up and Get those interim solutions implemented, but also at the same time continue to focus on updating their systems in the future . Your Agency, the auditors office does audits of all kinds of departments and we should just say, you're the nonpartisan office, correct? I mean, how do, how do you decide which things to audit? Legislator asks? Absolutely. This is, as I said earlier, there were members of the legislature, it was the consumer privacy and protection Committee. Gatto back in 2015, was the chair symbol member Baker was a member. She was on jail Act. They were communicating with a.d.d. Because some of their constituents were getting mail that was not addressed to them that had documents that had a less a sense. So this is an issue that's been brought to e.t.s. Attention 5 years ago. And these 2 members got very frustrated Assembly Member Baker ultimately came to the audit Committee and said, we need to get the audit state Auditor in there because we're just not seeing e.t. Fixing things. And that's when we were directed to do the audit that we issued in March of 21000. So we are, we are absolutely nonpartisan. The work comes to US primarily through the joint Legislative audit Committee. Now I have the authority to do the follow up work. And it's a civic life following up on recommendations that we've made and with everything that's been happening in California in the past 6 or 8 months. We felt this was really important followup work to do in conjunction with the 80 audit that the legislature under their emergency authority approved back in September and directed US to get in there and do some other work. Just before the pandemic began, Governor Newsome appointed Sharon Hilliard, e.t.v. Director back in February, and then she announced last month. She's retiring at the end of the year And also the Governor in. I think it was late July appointed. He the Strikeforce as he called it, to streamline these very problems. What has been accomplished by Either that strike force or just the agency itself? Well, we have looked at the strike team of was created in July of 2020. They should report in September, shortly before the, the audit that the legislature directed US to conduct. So we're looking at the recommendations that the strike team made. Many of them are similar to recommendations we've made in the past. I can't speak to specifically what a.t.t. Has done thus far. My staff are out there conducting the audit that we were directed to do. And we'll have the results of that audit in January. Just a couple months away. And in terms of this concern that you have about identity theft, is there any indication that in fact that has happened? We didn't see any evidence of that specifically occurring. I know that, you know, there were, as you mentioned, the b. Of a debit cards. There were concerns related to Theft of those cards. Our staff haven't seen any evidence of that, but I know there are other investigations ongoing. Just a few seconds left here, but the real quickly, I know California is one of only 3 States of it does not offer direct deposit as an option. Is that something that your office might recommend as well? Certainly something that we will we will look at and determine whether or not that makes sense for California. I don't have a specific information related to that, as I said the out of time going to our right. Well, thank you so much. Elaine Hall, a California state Auditor for joining US this hour and bring US up to date on the problems. Very much appreciate it. Thank you for having me. You bet we're going to continue this conversation and you can give US a call at 866-733-6786. Again, it's 866-733-6070 extension 86, you can also get in touch on Twitter and Facebook work at k.q.e.d. Form, or you can e-mail US. It's a form of k.q.e.d. Dot work Scott Shafer here this hour from Michael Krasny much more to come. Which preserves the legacy For future innovators. By dedicating a 3rd of its space to Arts education and Determined to shape the future of Ophthalmology. Training of Tomorrow's clinician, researchers and basic scientists, u.c.s.f. Health People in the $2.00. The government Says Revenue made Decisions should be done addressing the causes of the student loan crisis And it's coming up at 11 after Forum here from $11.00 to $1.00. Today. Our Michael Krasny. We're talking this hour about the problems at the Eve of the state's Employment Development Department. We just say goodbye to the state Auditor . Elaine, how? Joining US now, Carolyn Sayed, from the San Francisco Chronicle, She's been covering this issue for many months now. And also Daniel Yergin, she is the founder and director of the Center for workers rights in Sacramento, Carolyn and, and Ella, Welcome. Thanks for having me. Well, I think you probably were listening to the state Auditor there and based on the reporting, you've done anything that you heard that jumped out at you. Well, you just think the tremendous volume of mail that has the Social Security numbers on it. And the fact that he did as you know, got that report from the state order in March 29th teen, you know, almost 2 years ago and has not taken action 80 days. Seems like a very high down agency that is very, very slow. I guess it is like joining a cruise ship or something, but it seems very, very slow to react and to modernize it's been doing and a multimillion dollar modernization process for years and years and years now and there's no end in sight. It did react when it got this thing report from the Governor's Strikeforce. It actually shut down for 2 weeks during which nobody got their claims process in order to try to implement a New identity verification system. And I think Danielle, I can do a better job than I have telling US how well that identity verification system is or isn't working. But just their feeling I get from talking to so many e.t.d. Claimants who are just desperate is, you know, it's just hopeless. They call over and over and over again, and they don't reach a live person. It's a giant bureaucratic agency that seems mired in Red tape and unable to Act quickly . Well, we're already getting a lot of comments from listeners. One writes e.t.d. Has been sending me mail, asking for information to complete a claim. I never filled out any claim. So this is obviously someone illegally using my name to file. I tried to get the deal. Let them know this is a fraudulent claim. Apparently, no one is listening in that office as the mail keeps coming. The, you know, what are you hearing in your office from frustrated California INS who were trying to get, you know, claims unemployment insurance claims that they are entitled to. He continues to be unable to be reached and deal with minor changes in applications that would allow claimants to receive benefits quickly. So we're now months and months into the pandemic and people who filed for unemployment in the early months. My March, April and May Many have still not receive the benefits they're entitled to. And those who have received benefits off in an receive those benefits. Because e.d. Has taken action on their claim, which has resulted in the suspension of their benefits, which is incredibly frustrating for people who finally were able to access those needed benefits. And is it your sense that things are getting better or is it just that the unemployment maybe claims have slowed as you know, maybe some, some businesses have been hiring back or reopening. I think it's primarily the latter that they're finally getting through the backlog as they call it, of claims from the beginning. They have instituted New policies that could potentially help. But certainly the call centers, which have have been continued source of frustration and have not improved. And their responsiveness to claim issues have also not improved. When I give out the phone number again, we're talking about problems with the California Employment Development Department . The give US a call if you'd like to join the conversation, we love to hear what your experiences have been with e.t.d. Either as a hopeful recipient or maybe even as an employer give US a call at 866-733-6786. Again, that's 866-733-6786. You can also get in touch on Twitter and Facebook were at k.q.e.d. Forum. Another listener writes Edi. Actually let me, Lawrence writes of my e.t.v. Debit card was disallowed due to an employer using my neck name to pay for me. How can I do this? Then you know, is that the kind of person, you know, problem that can just like screw up the whole system if, if like you, if you're called Bob rather than Robert, it definitely can be, it is both an issue at the initial application stage and then could be an issue going forward, depending on what a.d.t. Is alleging occurred in terms of the fraud. So there are a few a self-help remedies that you can try, including a talking to that gave Bank of America get a card line 1st to make sure that it is an actual e.t.d. Freeze on the account. And not something that can be remedied through Bank of America. Can say, you know, California, we've already discussed how antiquated The technology is. That's no secret. But I'm wondering if you, you know, if to the extent you look at other States me, to what extent is California adopting or even creating best Practices as opposed to just ignoring what you know other States are doing and doing much better? That's a great question. I think the scathing report from some temper is the best guidelines on that that, you know, basically, you know, it was soup to nuts that almost everything e.d.t. Is doing, has issues increased bottlenecks. I'm not that aware of other States. I mean, I think smaller States do a better job, he said, because they have much less volume to handle. But I do believe that there are, you know, Big populous East Coast States that do a much better job at it. Don't just stick with what is better about their systems, but I presume that more of them use unless they are very different case, except that people can submit everything on line and that there is automatic processing instead of such a huge amount. I think something like 60 percent of the e.t.t. Claims are go to manual processing. And there are a very limited number of people at a.t.t. Who have the authority and the knowledge to handle those. And it's just an incredible bottleneck that slows everything down to a snail's pace. Here's a tweet from Cory, who writes Why heads aren't rolling in California. E.t.v. Is beyond me. This is just the latest and Carolyn, you know, as you well know, because you've been covering it this. This is a very troubled agency. And the director who the Governor appointed just in February Sharon, who you're his resigning or retiring at the end of the month. So you have to think this is part of the reason why, But what are your thoughts about that? How the response of his state government then obviously, you know, to give the Governor the benefit of the doubt. Here no one foresaw this. Pandemic coming, you know, unemployment was very low before this before March. But what is your sense of, you know, responsiveness? Well, it certainly is on the Governor's radar now, and I think there are quite a few state legislatures legislators who are very aware of this because the desperate claimants have figured out that one way to get some action is to go directly to their state Senator state Assembly person, so the Assembly has been holding hearings on a.t.t. And Senate sharing Hillyard, you know, testify in his Grill jerk, which I may be to her resignation. I don't know, but the Assembly and the Senate are very aware of this issue and want to take action. I mean, sure, we all hope that whoever is appointed to lead the e.t.t. Going forward will be a decisive person who can cut through all the Red tape who can reform and modernize the organization. Here's another comment from a listener who writes My friend has been trying to collect unemployment benefits since March. He has acknowledged her claim and said that she qualifies, but she's not been paid. She's done everything she can to try to get her claim addressed. Any advice for her then you know, Oh, there are a couple. There are many problems that could be leading to the actual reason. She's not getting paid benefits. But the step you can take is contact either a local legal services organization like our own, or you're a member of the legislature who have direct access to send the case to a.t.t. For prompt resolution. So it may be a issue with them, not having all of the wages reported properly or an identity verification issue, or the need to certify for continued benefits. And they are, is there a specific number like an 800 number People can call or is it really depend on where you live? You're in Sacramento. I don't know if you deal with people statewide, for example. Yet we take calls on our current of Irish protection helpline here at 916-905-1625 or with our partner organization legal aid at work in the Bay or area 415-864-8848. Have you like e.t.d. Been deluged since this started? Oh, Oh, Yes, we've had more than 10000 calls and you know about unemployment issues and we hold a weekly unsolved mysteries of the e.t.t. Advocate meeting where we talk about New issues that are arising with claimants and trying to figure out what the source of those problems are in order to a.t.t. How they can remedy it. All right, so we're talking this hour with Carolyn Saeed of the Chronicle. And Daniela, urban founder and director of the Center for workers rights in Sacramento, talking about all the problems of the state's Point of development Department. Let's go to the phones now and Chris from Santa Clara your 1st Well, I just wanted to point out that so many payments have these incredibly long Queues that they're waiting for example, 16 weeks. Because getting any unemployment benefits whatsoever has a huge impact in my family. And the system that we're talking about is not that We shouldn't over and magnify it was Big. It's the lack of good management that lies in the lack of the Governor, Governor knew some and you know, the number of claims going through the system is not that Big. Comparing it to an airline system Count a banking system. It's actually a small system. Chris Christie. I'm starting right where you can do it was your was the issue resolved for your family member of a that still pending? There was little issue at all in the end date, they just had a long 2 denial because nobody in the e.t.t. Bothered to even Contact the employer. And he just stood there for 16 weeks. So it's not a question of a system that doesn't work. That's 6 years, it is not in the question of thought. Yes, that's a thought that can be dealt with like any banking system. But what can't be dealt with is the damage that is being done to families, you know? Yeah. By the hundreds of thousands. Yeah, Chris, you make a really good point, Carol. Say, one thing that Chris just alluded to saying that this is a relatively small system compared to say what Airlines deal with their banks. But of course, those are companies. Those are for profit companies. Government is just, it seems always less efficient and hallways at least in California, not using the latest technology to say the least, which is so ironic given where we are. We're in, you know, the state that has Silicon Valley, it is so ironic and, and I would also add that the government sometimes seems less accountable to the people who work for the taxpayers than it should be. Absolutely, and I just Wonder if you have any sense of you know, this strike team, they're continuing to do their work. I mean, it's one of these probably no, you sort of a punt in a way, you know, there was a Big problem. It was all, it was in the news. What do you do? You form a Commission, you form a task force. Mean, where is the Accountability going to, you know, come from. I mean, we've heard from the state Auditor which, you know, the legislature is engaged. I mean, ultimately, I guess it's the voters, but you know, there are people in Chris's family, you know, who have been waiting and waiting and waiting. Where does the Accountability come in? Carolyn, You know, I'm sorry to say that they're really Going to let me out even, and, you know, with these, these are of course not elected agencies. And I would like to, you know, just briefly say that, you know, there are hundreds of, you know, hard working men and women, 80 who I'm sure go to work every day. And they want to get People's claims. And we have actually heard from people who were Or who got fired their weight in frustration because they just, they wanted to help people, they wanted to get claims process and they simply could not deal with the educated systems. And I think the integrated mindset. So Yes, there does need to be kind of guilty. I think that would start from the Chap with the New director of the e.t. . All right, Let's go back to the phones and David from Sebastopol. You're next. I can hear me. Yeah, go right ahead. Yeah, I'm an open claim since March that open and so March of next year. And I'm someone if you have any resources for me to figure out by certifying for benefits online and getting, getting my payments until September, I got my last him and I was partially employed. And while of course employed before September I was I was certifying for that work, so as offsetting my benefits now. But I haven't gotten a notification of certifying like since September and I've got no payments. And I'm wondering what the Heck's going. I sent them and message about a week you haven't heard back yet, hear back, don't you know any suggestions? So there's a couple of things that that can happen with claims that the initial claim is for 26 weeks of u.i. Benefits. Some people get fewer benefits. So it may be that you had exhausted your initial unemployment insurance benefits. At some point when you were reporting earnings. And then you would need to have made sure that you enrolled in one of the queue extension programs. The pandemic emergency unemployment compensation or the fatty deprogram in order to continue to get benefits. Claims on you on line, remain open for about 120 days. Allow you to go back and keep certifying. So it depends what your u.i. On line account is showing. If it's prompting you to reopen your claim, then you'll need to reopen in order to be able to continue to certify for benefits . Otherwise you should be able to access those past certifications on line Carolyn and even they have about I know, I think that was a great summary and David, are you still with US? Was that helpful? Does that respond to your question? Yeah, I just, I just didn't get the last I heard there's the pen, Demick emergency or what was that there was that was the last the 2nd option for the next and extended assistance and we call it fed at or fed e.g. The federal state extension duration benefits these are extensions for when there is a high period of unemployment and that kicked in in California to allow additional 20 weeks of unemployment benefits. There is a few special qualifications on that and he has a special page on their website for it. All right, David, good luck to you. I hope that's helpful. Let's go now to Mill Valley and Bernie welcome. Thank you. I have Just going to say I was happy with a.t.t. . Oh, Ok, great. Tell US what happened. Oh I, you know, use the long line system, you know, which is what all forced to do. You know, I mean, I don't think it is any different than banks. Any other companies, they all move to online. And if you really want to get something done, you've got to struggle through the online. Well, when you just, you want to ask your own. So you about that because my understanding is that they were in some cases asking for or at least allowing people to send faxes that they weren't really equipped to handle these things. Example cations and everything else online. What do you think of what Bernie is saying here? Well, I'm glad you had a good experience and again, you don't. Millions of people have 16400000 claims have been processed just since March, and a 110000000000 hasn't paid in benefits. So, you know, many people have been getting their benefits and that is a great thing is that the Santry though that many, many people have not gotten their benefits. And for those people it's a very bad thing. E.d.t. Does deal in facts is and as we just heard from the state orders report the mail, if you can do everything on line, he does have to set up to do things online. But for whatever reasons, in many circumstances it requires faxing. Most people don't have a fax machine and they did, you know, sometimes you get your printer in to fax machine. It's not easy. I talk to many people who end up going to change those and paying money to send faxes and then they don't have a way to proceed. Faxes. You know, especially, you know, for people who are of lower income and for whom English is a 2nd language to, you know, just figure out a fax technique which is are generally Yeah, absolutely. Well Bernie, I'm glad you had a good experience and hopefully a lot of other people did as well. But Unfortunately, many did not. One listener here writes, My partner has been on paid family leave for to my And has not been able to access her benefits. After our last child, someone fraudulently requested a New Bank of America debit card and now our account is frozen. This is completely unacceptable and beyond frustrating. Daniel, what have you heard about? We mentioned when I earlier, when I was talking to the state Auditor of this problem with fraudulent applications and the debit cards that get sent. What are you hearing in terms of whether the state has gotten its arms around the problem? So that, that problem with fraud has 2 sides. That the 1st side is Edis overexuberance in looking into fraud, which prevents them from updating their systems and making changes that would favor the claimants in ease of access to benefits. The other side is when they do go out, They go after it in a way that does not make it easy for claimants to remedy their own individual life situation. Yeah. So when people, I'm sorry to cut you off, we're just coming up on a break. Hold your thought, I will come back to you Daniela. Going to continue this conversation about e.t.v. For the rest of this hour. And if you want to give US a call now is the time 866-733-6786 Again, it's 866-733-6786. You can also get in touch on Twitter and Facebook works at k.q.e.d. Form Scott Shafer here this hour from Michael Krasny. More to come Here's what's coming up on form in our 2nd hour with me make him as California and many other States struggled to contain a surge in covert 1000 cases. Science journalist Ed Young says we're now more vulnerable to additional disasters, including a possible 2nd pandemic in his New article in The Atlantic. Young says diminishing resources, strained, International relations, and demoralized experts have America on its heels. We'll talk to young about what he's learned during months of reporting on the pandemic, and what he thinks the u.s. Should be doing now to control it. Stay tuned for more of our conversation on problems at the state's economic development Department. And we continue our conversation with Carolyn Saeed to from the San Francisco Chronicle. And Danielle urban founder and director of the Center for workers rights in Sacramento. And again, my apologies, Danielle, I cut you off as we went to the break. You member what you were in the middle of saying when I, when I stopped you, I do so we were talking about 80 and I was saying that there are 2 sides. So that the side where he goes aggressively after fraud in and prevents access to those claimants who need to appropriately access benefits. And then the other side is helping those who've been affected by fraud remedy there. That identity theft situation or the fraudulent applications. And that site is, is really slow in responding to those claimant concerns. Both in figuring out what has occurred as well as allowing them to access their benefits while the investigation is ongoing. Are a great cause go back to the phones now and David your next. Yeah, I would like to know why no one's been fired or if someone has Why,, why we haven't heard a word about. Yeah. Well, the director of the e.t.d., which, who was appointed by Governor Newsome just in February, she had been there as the Deputy director for many years. She announced her retirement at the end of the year. You can, you know, maybe read between the lines there as to what, what's going on, but, you know, Carolyn Saeed. We touched on this earlier, but you know, people always want, understandably, to say, you know, to see heads rolling, you know, when there's this problem that's been going on for so long. Is it your sense that the agency is, you know, doing what it needs to do to get to right itself or is this do more changes need to happen? I think definitely more changes need to happen and it is working through that report. But it's changes are still happening at a glacial pace. At the time the report was issued in September of Etihad, 1600000 and recent claims. And it has been working through them and has, you know, cleared hundreds of thousands of them. But it will still take until late January to work through that whole backlog. So, you know, with a giant bureaucracy like this, you have the person at the top and then after that it is, you know, for US looking from the outside, it is hard to know who next should be accountable. You know, what heads should roll if any, you know, and again, you know, I do think that the working people there and they don't go to work every day thinking they want to ruin People's lives. But they are stuck in this, you know, mired in this, your accuracy where they don't have the ability to sort cut through the Red tape. Yeah, and we, that's a really good point and you know, it's easy to sort of pile on to state agencies. And as you said, most people of the vast majority go to work every day and they're trying their best . But they have limitations placed on them based on the leadership in that agency. The technology, the overwhelming number of applications that they've gotten. So Let's, Let's, Yeah, Let's acknowledge that as well. Here's a listener who writes, Let's see actually another one here. Michelle, what methods are being used to investigate and fix the problems that he HDDVD issue requires innovation and leadership rather than traditional government bureaucracy. We kind of touched on that a moment ago, Carolyn, but Is, seems like Fundamentally they're using antiquated technology and it takes a long time to acquire and implement a New system for something this large is that ultimately what it's going to take I thinks that the ironic thing that I will too ironies. One is you already said we are here in California, the heart of Silicon Valley. We have the greatest technology in the World at our fingertips and yet we have it. The other irony is that he started 90 years ago a multi-million dollar modernization project that I think was supposed to already have been complete and has been to do, you know, run into delays and cost overruns. And if it had, you know, occurred on time and on budget, it would have been in place when this, you know, Harville, circumstance of the pandemic in the massive ways of unemployment. It. Alright, Let's go back to the phones and we'll go now to Portola Valley and Laura welcome. Hi k.q.e.d. . So Yeah, I have a small business. I've had a for years. I'm self-employed. I've always paid my taxes on time. I've never filed for extension. Anyway, I have, I've had no problem with the Big am very grateful for the support they've given. I'm like the Guy who applied online, and there's just been no issue with been easy. And every time they ask for our review at the end of the filing, when you do it on a buy, we could basis, I always give them 5 stars. Good for you. Oh, well thanks for sharing that much appreciated. I should mention that we did try to get somebody from e.t.v. To join US this hour and also reached out to the Governor's office. Never heard back from the Governor's office and e.d.t. Said they were too busy to, to join US, which is unfortunate. But we have Carolyn Saeed, and Danielle urban here from the Center for Workers' rights in Sacramento. They can answer questions and Here's another one. People in civil service positions essentially have a guaranteed job with no consequences. What is the incentive then for them to follow the recommendations by an Auditor to improve the system? Carolyn Carol, insight are you there and what a great question and I'm afraid I don't have a Yes I mean or, you know, I just, you know, I mean that's where It Sparks. Yeah. And you know, that is where leadership comes in. There has to be a clear message from the top that look, this is what we have to do. And if you're not living up to those standards, there's going to be some consequences. J. Writes, As a self-employed person, I have been grateful for e.t.d. Processing. My pandemic unemployment insurance claim quickly and on an ongoing basis. Good news there and Daniel tweets, Is there any other recourse if you suspect fraud, but can't get in touch with e.t.d. Like the Federal Trade Commission or the f.b.i. . And Danielle, I know there are other non-profits that also help with identity theft. For example . Yes. Well, e.t.d. Has its process where you can both make a call and report the suspected fraud as well as sending any of the documents or evidence of the potential fraud. And you can also file, and they actually e.t.d. Recommends that if you feel you're a victim of identity theft, you can file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission as well. Ok, great. I'm going to give out the phone number again before I go back to the phones, it's 866-733-6786 against 866-733-6786. If you want to join the conversation, you can also get in touch on Twitter and Facebook. Of course we're at k.q.e.d. For more. If you prefer, you can e-mail US. It's form at k.q.e.d. Dot Org, no faxes. However, we are not taking faxes. Let's go to Jamie and Wes Moore and welcome General. It's interesting you just mentioned the frog. And I actually, all of the sudden have had our flurry of contacts e.t.d. Starting last week. Actually this, this weekend even Had a notice that I think Thursday had a notice that there was suspicious account activity. And when I hopped on it immediately to try and contact Some calls, the exact same response As all of my attempts since March to call, even starting literally 8 am in the morning when you say the same response, what was the response? Ok, our Excel number one, the online portal is very efficient. If you have a complicated claim. I am a freelancer. I do remote digital work. I have had about 4 weeks of work in this period. The Straits claim no problem. But if you walk out of week, they don't want you to claim the working week. The week you work, they want you to claim the week to get paid. And in good circumstances, my clients don't always pay me within $30.00 days, particularly now. And I'm not pressing them to pay me. I'm glad to have the work. So my claims a little complicated. What do I do when I have this is what I keep calling. I cannot get a response. And what I find, so I think, well, Yeah, Jimmy Graham. Yeah, go ahead, finish your thought and I'm going to bring it Ok. I guess that's right. Things are Not Matter what phone call you call, even if they're saying contact US and mediately because we believe your County has been compromised. No one all day, Thursday, all day Friday, Saturday. No one answers the phone. You automatically says we're too many people to cut you off. It doesn't take a message. That's 10, phone numbers all go to the exact same voicemail that says just to many people. It touched a lot then you know, I Wonder if maybe because I know that as one of your maybe both of you mentioned state legislators have taken a great interest in this issue. Maybe it's better rather than trying to contact, e.t.d. contact your legislator, your Somebody member or your state Senator and you know, they're going to get probably they're going to have those inside numbers that you need to actually get somebody on the phone. Right? Yeah, I mean in this situation I hear a couple of things happening. One is this suspected fragile an activity on the card . That's usually actually as a result of Bank of America noticing fraudulent activity on the card. E.t.d. Doesn't have access to what's going on on the card side of the benefits payments. Once they process those payments, you should call the number on the back of the e.t.t. Bank of America debit card in order to find out why you received those messages. In response to reporting earnings, this is a very complicated situation right now with the pandemic on the more unemployment assistance. Because regular unemployment, you report the week that you earn the wages. But under pandemic unemployment assistance, as the caller mentioned, you report when you're paid for this makes for very complicated processing of the certification forms when you do have earnings. Yeah. So I guess they could maybe streamline the application process, but Yeah, obviously the more complicated your situation is, the harder it's going to be to get what you need. And you mentioned those debit cards and matters did some reporting earlier in the year and they found that California is one of only 3 States, Nevada, and Maryland being the others that do not offer a direct deposit option. They use prepaid debit cards instead. Here in California and I don't know what is your sense of, you know, might things be better, how many problems are caused by that? That issue alone? Do you think the fact that we're only using debit cards I. This is not a particular area of concern for me. You know, we don't mostly with low wage workers. So some of our workers actually still request the paper checks because they're unbanked. So making direct deposit not available to them, but I do know that, you know, it does work in other States. And even if it's just an available alternatives at the request of the claimant, it could help with some of the processing of the claims or at least prevent people who do have their accounts frozen. Cannot have such high account balances at the time that that counts do get frozen. And Carolyn, Here's a listener coming up. What about the tons of taxpayer money? The e.t.d. Has doled out to fake people. What about that, those fraudulent debit cards? Is that just who's on the hook for that? Is it, is it taxpayers? Does the Bank of America have some role in the Well, much of that money is, is actually federal money. And I certainly hope that Stimulus that is almost irrationally exuberant about preventing fraud from, you know, people who call in is after the fact going after people who actually did give it fraud and trying to catch them. I mean, there are reports of like, gangs that state prisons who are submitting their unemployment claims. I think in August there was a huge series in the US, a self employed planes because those are Unfortunately a little easier to game the system with because you don't have to have a judge to. You don't have to prove that you were a check employed. So there were some waves of fraud there and it is make for good hope that he and others are investigating that we have not heard specifically what's happening. That there's a comment from a Ranger writes for your last caller to blame. The Governor is ridiculous. He and hared of this system and we haven't seen unemployment levels like this for a long time. If ever. And I would say again, we did reach out to the Governor's office, did not get, a response. Would have been great to hear from them or the e.t.d., but neither neither one wanted to be on the program. And you're right. You know, sure. You know, you could say that, you know, Jerry Brown inherited a mess to the economy was crashing when he took office and he left office with a huge budget surplus. A lot of it is timing certainly given his and didn't cause the pandemic. But you know, the governors, the person, that's where the Buck stops, so that, so that is real like it or not. That is why folks look to the Governor for answers . Here's another listener comment. Many folks who lost work when code 1st hit in March will soon run out of their 26 plus 13 weeks. I was working in food service and have been applying for other jobs in my field with no luck. What happens after we exhaust our $26.00 weeks plus extension? Carolyn, do you have a response about That's a hard one. There are for regular unemployment for people like W 2 jobs. There are multiple extensions which I think Daniel probably could do a better job of summarizing them for people who have a benefit for people who are self-employed freelancers, or good workers. There is a hard stop at the end of the year unless Congress acts again. They will be totally out of benefits. There are no other No other options. The way the state works is 26 weeks of regular state unemployment benefits. And then you get transferred to a federal program. Pandemic emergency unemployment compensation, another 13 weeks of benefits through the end. The year and then when that ends you can search and as transition to another program called that AD, which can last up to 20 additional weeks. That's the normal sequence of events. If you're getting regular unemployment insurance for exactly 2 jobs. And again, as if you're getting way or being self-employed, it's gone on December 31st and there are no more extensions there. Congress acts last Congress are Let's go back to the phones now. Rick, from Santa Rosa, Welcome. Thank you. And I'm so beginning self-employed unemployment since March, no issues with that however, were over the weekend received a notification and I needed to certify my soon informed verifying my 2019 income. Or my benefits would be reduced or eliminated within $21.00 days. And them and well, a Long story short dinosaur about it. I don't Submit Paper copy, not file online for tax purposes. So I don't have a My W. 2. My Will see you could get scanned. I guess that's an option, But there's not. And The site did not indicate in my 1st question, is since the best my memory, I sort of Provided that information when I sort of fired back in March. Someone wondering why I'm being asked for it again. Then you already have an answer for Rick. Yes. Under the pandemic unemployment assistance program when claimants 1st submitted their applications for benefits, they did so by a self active station as to what their wages were and 2019 in order chair increase the amount of their weekly benefit amount from the minimum of $167.00. And he did, he has followed up with some claimants in order to verify that income by requesting the 21000 earnings. And that is likely why this claim is being asked for those documents. And you mentioned, I think it was you who use the phrase, sort of irrational You know, exuberance in going after fraud. Why, why do you, why do you describe it that way? That basically you feel that there should be sort of a benefit of the doubt during this, you know, economic recession period. It's not that just that. I think there should be a benefit of the doubt. It's easy to use charges to be the 1st line of defense for the safety net, when people lose their jobs. And the presumption should be that a claim is eligible for benefits. Not that they're filing fraudulent money. And e.t.s. Perspective has long been 1st to question their eligibility and then provide benefits once they did overcome that initial question as to the eligibility and Carolyn say, what are you going to be looking for? We're just about at the end of the hour, but you know, what are you keeping an eye on? Well, Definitely keeping an eye on what happens at the federal level. I mean, we desperately need Congress to Act on any being related to one of mine and in your, I mean, you know, such as extending your teammates. And again, another Benefits like this in Place and I'm going to have to stop you there. My bad for asking you a complicated question with 30 seconds left. But thanks so much for joining US, Carolyn site of the Chronicle. Daniela Urban from the Center for workers rights in Sacramento, and also the state Auditor going home earlier in the hour. Scott Shafer here today from Michael Krasny have a great Funds for the production of Forum are provided by the members of k.q.e.d. Public Radio and the Germanicus Foundation and the generosity Foundation For another hour, a Forum coming up in just a minute after we rejoin John McConnell for the latest Bay Area traffic info, I gave Southee to be pretty tight in Fremont because well, paralegal would debris in the Lane South a to b. Before Mowery. That's the only problem we have reported by the back of the solid all the way back from before. Dakota road, Alvarado Boulevard area, North 80 addicts and Landing Road, there's a report of an unspecified traffic hazard. The San Mateo Bridge, eastbound. There's been a crash for almost an hour on the incline of the high rise section, and traffic is still backed up there. And in South San Francisco, the Oyster Point on route to one of the and South on more smashed cars. Joe McConnell for traffic support on Monday comes to you from European sleep works aboard 4 k.q.e.d. From fieldwork, growing locally owned and operated fieldwork now offers expanded delivery service of its craft beers with the daily deliveries to Oakland and weekly deliveries to San Francisco on the South Bay fieldwork growing dot com Q. We do San Francisco, North Highlands on day Freeman, 10 o'clock K.q.e.d., Public Radio in San Francisco. I mean coming up on farm. We look to our hospitals to save US when we are very sick. But as a young writes in his latest piece for The Atlantic, not even the best prepared hospital can compensate for an unchecked pandemic. And that is exactly what we're and will learn what front line workers and heads of hospitals across the u.s. Told young recently about what they're facing as cases climb past $12000000.00. And the nation remains without a unified strategy for addressing that farm is next. Joining US Live from n.p.r. News, I'm Lakshmi saying President elect Joe Biden is formally tapping 6 people to be on what are shaping up to be diverse. Foreign policy, National security teams include the nominations of York, as for Secretary of Homeland Security. Avril Haynes is director of National Intelligence. Shake Sullivan is National security advisor and Tony Blinken for Secretary of state N.P.R.'s. Michele Kelemen has more on Blinken who is number 2 at the State Department during the Obama administration. 58 year old Tony Blinken has a long history with Biden. He was a Senate staffer, when Biden was chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, and served with him in the Vice President's office. Lincoln knows the State Department well to having been Deputy Secretary of state under John Kerry. If confirmed, he would head an agency that many say has been hollowed out by the trumpet. Ministration, Lincoln says a Biden ministration will reinvest in diplomacy and rebuild alliances. A veteran diplomat who's leading Biden's review of the State Department, Linda Thomas Greenfield, has been nominated to become the u.s., Ambassador to the u.n. Michele Kelemen n.p.r. News. Washington making climate change a top priority by the selected John Kerry to be the special presidential envoy for climate. The former Secretary of state has tweeted, now fighting the climate crisis. Proud Bostonians. Well, the World Meteorological Organization says the concentration of heat trapping gases in the atmosphere continue to increase in 2020, did so at a slightly slower pace to pandemic related slowdowns. Here's N.P.R.'s Dan Charles. Around the World. Many people drove their cars less in 2020 and some factories shut down. That meant less fuel burned and less carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere. But carbon dioxide emissions didn't fall anywhere close to 0, so the heat trapping gas continues to build up in the atmosphere. That level is just above $410.00 parts per 1000000 at the moment, up 25 percent from half a century ago. And still rising. Scientists say net image, Sions, of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases, have to fall to 0 within 30 years. In order to avoid the worst consequences of, a changing climate, Dan Charles n.p.r., news, Michigan and Pennsylvania are set to certify their vote counts today making their election results official. N.P.R.'s Winsor, Johnson reports the certifications come amid a series of last ditch legal challenges fall by the Trump campaign. Despite still no evidence of widespread voter fraud. Attorneys for the President have been trying to block or delay the process in key swing States as part of a lonk shot effort to overturn the results of the election. A federal judge in Pennsylvania this weekend dismissed a lawsuit from the Trump campaign, challenging the state's election results. Similar suits have also been thrown out or withdrawn in Michigan where President Trump lost to Democrat Joe Biden. By about 150000 votes, wins, or Johnson reporting. This is n.p.r. News live from k.q.e.d. News. I'm Brian watch a coded 19 outbreak among people living and working at a horse racing track in Berkeley could be even bigger than the 200 cases. Currently identified, Berkeley mayor, Chief of staff, Jacqueline McCormick, confirmed that additional resources are safe research results are still pending. The identification of the cases led to the biggest one day coronavirus Spike. Since the city's 1st case was reported in late February track official Aiden Butler told the California Horse Racing Board, that 95 percent of the people infected were asymptomatic. Unfortunately, that is the reason that this got out of control Because it had almost symptomless of the most part. Though close to the public, Golden Gate Fields has been hosting horse races in a joint statement, Berkeley, Public Health and racetrack officials said that they are isolating those who tested positive in hotels. Lafayette city Council is considering a $5000.00 donation to the food Bank of Contra Costa and Salon no counties cost from the coded. $1000.00 pandemic haven't hit the city's budget as hard as projected in early summer. According to Lafayette city manager. But business and residents are struggling with no signs of the local economy recovering. As we head into the holiday season. The $5000.00 had been set aside for a staff holiday Party. The city Council is expected to vote on the donation this evening. There's more Bay Area News online at k.q.e.d. Dot Org In Oakland. I'm Brian Watt support this morning comes from bridge Bank a Division of Western Alliance Bank offering flexible financial solutions to the technology and life Sciences communities. And support for n.p.r. Comes from Haines urging people to reach out locally and see how they can help the homeless in their communities. As the weather gets colder. And those most vulnerable often don't have a safety net. More information as it hangs for good dot com. And the listeners are, members of k.q.e.d., cooler temperatures today, followed by a slight warming trend later today and Tomorrow a brief cooling on the way mid-week with another gradual warming trend Thanksgiving through Saturday. According to the Weather Service, they add that rain will remain North of the Bay Area through our forecast period, looking for mostly Sunny skies as we get into today. Bay Area highs upper Fifty's to the sixty's. This is Forum. I mean, a Kim, the National statistics are grim more than 12000000 coronavirus cases, more than a quarter 1000000 people dead. Now we're approaching the unthinkable statistic of 200000 New cases a day, even here in California, According to an l.a. Times analysis, average daily case numbers have tripled just in the last month. And a young science writer for The Atlantic has written extensively about the pandemic this year. And today he joins US to talk about what some of the nation's best prepared hospitals are now facing. And why so many front line health workers say they're at a breaking point. Welcome back to farm Ed Young. Thanks for having me. You know, with virus spread out of control across the country, you could have focused on any number of hospitals, but you chose the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha for your latest piece. Tell US why? Because you really know Hospital in America has been better prepared for a pandemic. And I guess that might surprise people who might think that such a hospital would be in a place like New York or a Big city like Boston or Chicago. But it's in Omaha, and the reason for that is that that specific hospital has been prepping for emerging infectious diseases since the 1st Saul's virus, immersion 2003. They have some of the leading infectious disease experts in the World. They have some of the best facilities. They were some of the folks who took lifted both the passengers and 2014, they have drilled and trained extensively. They have come up with Super details of pandemic plans of what, what to do in the event of an event, much like this one. So you know, more than any other institution they've both anticipated this kind of catastrophe, and they have taken steps to prepare for it yet. Yes, sorry, go wrong. That's exactly the next point is given all of that, what have you learned is happening there. Now Things are looking really bleak. The hospital has had to create 10 covert units, each one of them taking up an entire hospital floor. One of those units is only for people to go and die because they can't be saved. The workers, the nurses and doctors are absolutely stretched thin. They are tired. One said to me that she normally works in Oncology, said Death is no stranger to her, but she can barely cope. She can barely comprehend the amount of death that she's seen in the last couple of weeks. The hospital has had to postpone elective surgeries. A lot of patients who would otherwise be getting medical care right now are not getting the care of those patients who was to be who have been admitted to the hospital. Not just because of it, but with other things like strokes and heart conditions. Just on getting the level of care that they normally would and not because the doctors are inattentive, but because they are completely swamped with covert 19 cases. You know, these are people who, as I said, have trained, they are not given to exaggeration. They are resilient, they are collected people and they are saying things to me like we are on an absolutely catastrophic path that we are seeing a system breaking in front of US. They are scared, they are tired, and they know that the worst is yet to come. So what does it tell you Of our hospitals at this point about what other hospitals are facing. I mean, is their experience basically generalizable, like, has given the fact that we know the Nebraska state with no mask mandated surrounded by other States that have been slow to Act. So how unique is this experience to see in your reporting? It's not unique at all. Certainly, variation across the country. So hospitals in the Northeast, for example, in places like New York and Rhode Island and Pennsylvania are seeing increases and they are also taught. They are also exhausted. They're not quite in as bad of a situation, but it's bad everywhere. And it's especially bad in places in the Midwest, so before writing about them say enough, Roscoe, I wrote another piece about hospital Workers and hospitals being exhausted. One of the people I spoke to Who told me that Iowa is now out of staff beds. That means that There's just no more space for people who are sick and certainly no space that actually has nurses and doctors who can care for those people. Those workers, those health care workers. And I will also sounded massive blaring a lot about the conditions that they're seeing. And you can look at any number of news stories that have interviewed health care workers in North Dakota and South Dakota and Wisconsin throughout the Midwest. The problem, one of the problems with this current is it has hit the entire country to the 1st one hit, the northeast, the 2nd one focused on the South. This one is everywhere. All of the u.s. Is on fire right now with covert cases. And that means that hospitals that once were able to get reinforcements from other parts of the country now cannot wear those reinforcements coming from because Everyone is swarmed. And that's adding to the incredible burdens on healthcare workers. Right now. We're talking about the latest crime virus surge with that young of the Atlantic and you know, and Yours, your pieces. The most recent ones. It's the most detail I've read so far about what actually happens in an intensive care unit for a patient with a severe case of code 19. Can you describe just how much work is required? Yes, so that patient will likely be interfaith and that means they'll have a long tube going down their throat. That's providing them with oxygen because the virus is Assaulting their lungs. That patient will probably also have anyway, between $8.00 to $12.00 Tube, Many of them large going directly into their heart and into all the blood vessels delivering them. Sedatives, pain, medications, antibiotics, none of those are drugs for treating the actual code, but that's just to keep them alive. Those drugs might have to be titrated. That means that the doses might have to be adjusted on a minute to minute basis by a nurse that has to keep track of all of that. That patient will probably have this Bank of monitors that control. 'D The amounts of medications are getting. We know that some covered patients do better when they're put on there from, that's called proceeding. Now, proceeding doesn't just mean you take a patient and you flip that patient. Remember, has, you know, maybe a dozen tubes coming out of them and, and one tube that's going into the Airways, that is providing them with lifesaving oxygen. So to turn that patient on to their side, which need to happen once a day, and then they need to be flipped back to you. You need a team of maybe 6 and 7 doctors and nurses to Burrito them up in some kind of wrapping flip them over. And at least one person has to make sure that all the, those tubes don't pop out. It's called intensive care for a reason. You know, typically one scandal look after 2 patients Patients of so, so sick and much sicker than the typical i.c.u. Patient that often one nurse has to devote their entire attention to one patient and that patient, if they have code it is going to be in the i.c.u. For 3 times as long as your typical patient. So you're holding the amount of patients that you i.c.u. Nurses can look after and you're tripling the amount of time those patients spend in the i.c.u. . It's no Wonder that hospitals and health care workers also stretched right now. One of the things, especially early on in the pandemic, we were seeing in other countries, just the tragic rationing of care that was having to happen. Are you hearing about examples of now? I think we're right where rapidly approaching that point and even if we don't, if, even if we're not at that point yet, there's already some of that that is happening right? Because doctors and nurses are really stretched, they already have to make decisions about how much attention to pay to different, people. So at u.m.c., the Nebraska hospital I told you was best prepared. One of the nurses there told me that there are some days when they look at the total number of patients in the morning and the nurses they have and they know that they are down between 45 and 60 nurses. That's ridiculous. I to triple check that number with her because it just didn't sound right. How can a hospital be down 45 to 60 nurses? So even if they're not having yet to say, we literally cannot treat this patient, they all having to stretch themselves and they are having to reduce the amount of attention and care that they would give anyone patient. And we will get to that point. I think it's a well rather than an if where doctors will have to make really hard decisions about who to put on a ventilator, who to put on dialysis, who, who they can treat and who simply will not have space or. 'D Health care workers to look after them. And that's not just in terms of covert rights, it's not just deciding which covert patients will live and which ones will die, but which entire categories of patients might not be able to receive care. U.m.c. Is the only hospital within a 200 mile radius that can provide care for very, very advanced traumas. For advanced strokes for heart failure is that requiring mechanical support for all can transplant recipients. That's it, like all the cities like Boston and Chicago might have more than one hospital. They can deal with that. But in this area that say that hospital is inundated with code 19, then a lot of other people who might need An intensive medical care all simply not going to be able to get it. That's the disaster we're looking at. Andy Young science writer for The Atlantic, his latest articles are, hospitals, know what's coming and the other is no one is listening to US, a details preparations that some hospitals are making as they prepare for a surge. Those that are already inundated and also it talks about what frontline health workers are facing. I invite your listeners to join the conversation. What are your questions for Ed Young? What are your reactions to the things that he is saying and reported on? Are you somebody who works in the House that the system with coping 1000 patients tell US what you're facing? You can give US a call at 866-733-6786. Again, that's 866-733-6786. You can also get in touch with US on Twitter or Facebook. We're at k.q.e.d. Forum, or you can e-mail your questions to Forum at k.q.e.d. Dot Org. Have you started doing anything differently in response to the news of this latest surge here in California? What are you doing to help ensure that we flatten the curve? Because as young as you were saying in your piece, you know, when hospitals are full, that means everybody waits regardless. And that is just part of it. Including the fact that people who have other types of health care needs might not get what they need. I mean, it came, You're listening to form its Support for k.q.e.d. This morning. Come From a generous gift from young Sram and Maria Monetti Sram founders of the Museum of Art at u.c. Davis, who believe that all people deserve access to education and culture, to enrich a lifetime of exploration and learning. California Independent Booksellers helping make gift, giving easier with real booksellers, not algorithms available to provide book recommendations for everyone on the list. Listeners can support local this holiday season and everyone gets a Book dot com. I'm Peter O'Dowd, high speed Hyperloop technology just crossed over from side 5 to reality. A passenger in the 1st ever Hyperloop vehicle told US what it was like. It was such a thrill, largely because of the psychology of the moment, the magnitude of what we were accomplishing. But of course it was a sporty tragedy. Next on a lot of yourself. Fasten your seat belt will go for a ride on the Hyperloop on here. And now one of the topics of discussion right after Forum and it starts at 11 o'clock. You're listening to Forum, I need to Kim, more with Atlantic science writer, Ed Young, who has covered the pandemic extensively and has recently been talking with hospital Chiefs and front line workers about what they're going through. And you can join the conversation by calling 8667336786667336786. We just on Twitter or Facebook, a k.q.e.d. Form or e-mail US Forum at k.q.e.d. Dot Org. And you know, one of the things I was really struck by that you wrote in one of your pieces is that the US has created a situation in which hospitals could not possibly succeed. What do you mean by this? So the US has traditionally invested in health care at the very point just treating people who are already sick and end up in hospitals. And it's got this very weird system of private employer tight insurance. What it has, what it hasn't done is invested in stopping people from getting sick in the 1st place. And that is the province of public health. People who are trying to reduce the spread of infections in a community before sick people end up in the hospital. We have seen the, consequences of chronic underfunding, of public health this year, as the u.s., Despite its well fed resources, has utterly failed to roll out the kind of testing and tracing programs that other countries with fewer resources have been able to manage. And so lots of sick people enter the hospital and that flood has become even greater than it might have otherwise been because of incredible incompetence and negligence from the trumpet, ministration. Since the start of this year and trumps repeated downplaying of this crisis and its inability to come up with a quartern ated, sensible federal strategy to contain the virus that other countries have contained more than one. The fault also lies with state governance. Many of whom have followed suit and have failed to put in the kinds of measures that would control the virus. So even now, for example, we see restaurants and bars, and James, being fully open, even as cases start to Mount to these kinds of indoor spaces, make it incredibly easy for the Corona virus to spread among people who spend a lot of time together talking without masks, interacting, you know, in large dense numbers. And so all of this means that the virus is spreading, it's spreading very, very easily. This 3rd surge is greater than are you there with the previous chair. And No hospital, no matter how well prepared, even places like you and say, can compensate when for Everything else failing. If you're in the hospital is going to be your only shield against a pandemic that shield will buckle and we are seeing that happening right now. Health care workers have had the full responsibility of covert 19, punted on to them from this incompetent administration, from incompetent governors and from people. People like just everyday people who are doing their part to want staying and who aren't staying away from indoor spaces with people outside the household. 'D Who want wearing masks, and this is what's happening. All of those, all of that failure to take responsibility has shunted responsibility on to doctors and nurses who are now playing under that pressure. Go to College. David in San Jose. Hi, David Pio. They go and there's a very Go right ahead. So 1st I wanted to say that Young's verbal description of the code that I see a patient was pretty accurate. Pretty well put and I think it paints a good picture really what goes on the i.c.u. . These patients, you know, the word intensive is not being used lightly. It's very labor intensive, and it's very time intensive for the nurses and the physicians. I'm a physician in San Jose. I'm only work in the hospital and take care of covert patients. And You know, usually in my job I deal. 'D With diseases like heart failure, pneumonia, various infections, various kidney problems, liver problems and so forth. And you know, some of them are related to poor. 'D Health style import choices over someone's whole life span. But I'm getting pretty fed up with People's disregard for basic recommendations for basic precautions that's making my personal life and my family's life at risk. And You know, going and I take care of these patients and I do the best I can, but it's Irritating and I'm getting fed up with the behavior of many Americans that are either directly impacts them or direct or impacts someone else who is the kind of victim of their poor behavior, landing them in my hospital due to thanks for sharing that, you know, this description of being Something you've never felt before. No, no, this is the 1st time, you know, I mean I personally have never even seen someone dive employ ends up. I've had a lot of influenza cases and obviously when this whole thing started, I saw people dying quickly. So you know, no I, I've never felt this way and it wasn't probably until August when I started to get really irritated at the behavior because it was obviously directly, as I said, making my life harder at work and making my life risky at home. Thank you so much for the work that you do and for sharing that, I mean as young as you hear what David is saying. It reminds me so much of some of the things that you were hearing and reporting on your piece, especially the one about how workers don't feel, listened to What, what David is saying is Certainly Universal among all the health, what health care workers I have spoken to just this intense frustration at seeing what America written law is doing and how that controls or what they're seeing in their i.c.u. . So, you know, take the folks in Nebraska who I talk to. Can you imagine what it's like spending, a 12 hour shift in an i.c.u., watching multiple patients die on you and having to console their families who aren't allowed to go up in their rooms to see their dying off the ones. To sit at the bedside of a stranger just so that they don't have to die alone. And then to drive home past, You know, packed restaurants, Parking lots full of cause, people having posses. And they, it's not just the frustration of thinking. Oh, it's not just the disconnect of seeing people taking extreme risks and the consequences of those risks. But knowing that Cove, it works slowly and has this time lag. So it takes several days for risky behavior and infections to lead to symptoms. And then a long time more for those symptoms to lead to hospitalization. So if you look at those graphs of cases and hospitalizations, there's a 12 day gap between the rises. So people who are, you know, these doctors and nurses who are driving home past all these people who are not wearing masks and are partying outdoors. They know that those people are going to be showing up in their hospital in about 2 weeks time. And they know that they are already in Capable of dealing with many more patients than the ones they already have. So think about, you know, just take Nebraska as an example, but you just take the whole country. In the last 12 days, I told you those told they got between cases of hospitalizations in the last 12 days, probably being about one and a half 1000000 infections documented in the u.s. . So that represents a surge of people who are going to Slam into beleaguered hospitals. Over the next 12 days over the Thanksgiving period and Thanksgiving is going to make it even worse because people are traveling to see their families. So I just don't know what to tell you when people saying to me that they are frustrated that they are, you know, at the end of their rope that they are looking at a health care system that's breaking. They're not exaggerating. They know what's coming At them writes, How can Mike Pence, Thomas, things aren't that bad and everyone is getting what they need. Let me go to the u.s. And Saratoga hire US. But I just want to say that if you look at the general ice course will be administration's plan. From the very beginning, we're getting reports saying that Blue States are getting hit 1st and getting hit hardest because it only affects people in close proximity. So just let it burn through there. When you get other plants talking about how, Let's wait for her community to take over so that millions and millions of Americans die. The cruelty with this. This is ministration. The cruelty is the point. We should have had a federal plan. We should have, like our speaker saying is talking about this. Our whole health care system is exposed for its weaknesses and its its cruelty in a way. And I'm not deriding the physicians and wonderful healthcare workers, but the pay to play insurance and just capitalism's rot in our system. So I hope they don't rambling but thank you. It's been a wonderful topic. Thanks for sharing how you feel. I'm sure there are people who have that same feeling of a sense of the injustice and he's describing this cruelty you and have described the type of ministration, or at least the fact that they never mounted a serious effort to stop it. As you said, as gross incompetence or deliberate strategy, do you think there's some truth to what was the same? Yeah, absolutely. I think that I think there is 2 things at play in those His comments that are both correct. One is that absolutely this administration Bez, a huge amount of responsibility for the tragedy that has befallen the Merican States here. You know, as I said, whether it's because of its incompetent or because of this deliberate strategy to pursue usual herd immunity. It has allowed this virus that I remind you all the countries have not only controls but controlled twice. They've allowed it to run riot through America and to spread among prisons among nothing homes among meatpacking plants and created a wave of patients that are now public hospitals. Some argue that this virus is uncontrollable, that you can't stop a rapid, a highly contagious virus. Those people are talking nonsense because as I said again and again, other countries have done it right and the playbook that we had was clear. It was clear from the spring, certainly by the early summer. All the things we needed to do, testing contact, tracing, safe spaces for people to isolate social support so that businesses that had to shut down stayed afloat, paid sick leave. So that workers who work poor workers who work out of the jobs didn't have to risk their livelihoods for their lives. All of that was clear, almost none of that was done. There's also note that there are all weaknesses here that precede the trumpet ministration. In many ways, the virus has uncovered so much that's Rotten and festering at the heart of American Society, not just the underfunding of Public Health and the stretched nature of hospitals, but to the pack nature of all prisons. The city under resourced Nursing Home and long term care facilities, the long standing inequalities and racial injustices that have meant that black, Latino and Indigenous communities have been so disproportionately hit by this fire, you know, just a few days ago, or maybe even yesterday, the New York Times published editorial about how, what's happening in our prisons as a moral and public health failure. Just looked at the numbers this morning. Haul off of US States have had more infected prisoners. Then New Zealand has a covert infected people for individual presidents have each had more covert cases than all of uneasy that 18 presidents have and more cases than All of the norm. That is absurd. And it speaks to just one of many, many gross inequities that I think America has come to accept. And you know, the horror now is that maybe covert 19. All of this tragedy that we're talking about becomes yet another thing, another unacceptable thing that the nation comes to accept. And also, you know, before it came in large numbers to the u.s. . We were already interviewing people who had worked in the prison system who were sane, who foresaw that the prisons would be a place where you would have this kind of an outbreak of this kind of scale. And I think part of what I hear and what you're describing, add in the frustration that you're talking about is that this was predictable. And as such will absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I wrote a piece in August for The Atlantic called the, how the pandemic defeated America. And it lays out all of these problems, you know, no, I am not the 1st person to talk about the underfunding of public health, or the ridiculousness of America's patch costs or all States. Or it's, you know, it's the stretched nature of its hospitals. And all of these problems are coming to roost right now. You know, the, the pandemic has, you know, came into this country, found a slew of inequities to tear apart, and then promptly tore them apart. I mean, think about the hospital situation, which we spent most of the segment discussing in the fact that a lot of hospitals don't have enough nurses, isn't just a factor of the intense nature of caring for a covert patient. It's also because a lot of hospitals just before was stretched in which, well already Had a shortage of good nurses Already, you know, want investing and often pandemic preparations and supplies. You know, I focused on the University of Nebraska Medical Center to show you that even Despite those preparations A hospital cannot compensate for an unchecked pandemic if no one else is doing that part. But you know, Many, many places didn't even have that baseline to begin with. Which is why we are in this predicament that we are in. Now. Let me go to Amar in San Francisco. Hi, m.r. . Yes. Hi. I'm calling upon the one with Uncle Bob. So model real concern all day long for somebody Who is not clean and People talk about A small part in our teaching of how many people behind them. I mean a half 1000000 people, we Have a little, it just doesn't make sense and we need to keep causing The number of serious. Thank you. And I'm our, I know that he had young is talking about You know, the survival rate and what we've heard a lot about, which is the low death rate in the United States. But can you just tell US how much we've actually learned at this point that does work in our favor, but also how we should really be understanding the death rate here. I think that the And I think I'm a mix of really saw their point and I would add 2 things to that. The 1st is that People really case. People get this really wrong. The death rate is not an immutable property of the virus. The death rate is also a factor of the health care that people are getting. So Yes, the fatality rate has fallen over the year. But that's because doctors have got better and more confident at treating people who have COPD at 19. They have learned they have gained experience on the job that that experience and knowledge is going to do a fat lot of good. If those doctors and nurses are themselves dead or exhausted or had not provided the type of care that they have learned how to provide. And that's the case, and we are seeing that happening in different parts of the country than those death rates are going to go up. There is absolutely no reason to expect that low death and low and death rates over the year are going to stay low. Because they don't automatically happen, they happen because of health care workers. And those health care workers are exhausted. The 2nd point I would make is that there are not just 2 outcomes here, death or survival. And we know, I know, because I've reported on this extensively that thousands, tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of covert 1000 patients still have long term symptoms . That last 4 months after their initial diagnosis, they called the long haul as they have spent months, you know, there's a lot of them, I mean in fact it's having them dealing with symptoms since Monch rolling, relentless ways are symptoms that aren't severe after send them to an i.c.u., but are debilitating them, causing huge problems for them in their lives. And that's something that we still need to be talking about when you factor in risk. And I'll be talking more with that young after the break science writer for The Atlantic. You're listening to form 2 months ago Joined US to talk about Twitter. And you can follow You're listening a Forum, I mean Occam. We're talking about the latest coronavirus surge with Ed Young science writer for The Atlantic. His latest articles look at what happened, what hospitals and frontline health workers are facing in the surge and how they're preparing. And we're inviting you our listeners to join the conversation. What are you doing to help the curve in this latest covert surge? Do you work in the health system with Kovan 1000 patients? Tell US what you're facing. 866-733-6786 is the number to call. You can also reach US on Twitter or Facebook at k.q.e.d. Form, or e-mail your questions to Forum at k.q.e.d. Dot Org. Joining me now is Rick Ross and President of Adventist health and right out in Marysville, California, near Yuba City. Thanks so much for joining US. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Rick Ross and we know that event his health was in the news recently because of concerns about running low on i.c.u. Bed surges in covert patients. Can you tell US what the situation is right now? Yes, so we serve summer and you became me up in Northern California. We have 221 bed hospital, $24.00, i.c.u. Beds. We have an intermediate care unit of 12, but sort of a step down unit We be and to see the rapid rise of cases in our community. There was some large gatherings that resulted in significant outbreaks. I think one wedding produced 45 cases, which I think over the next week probably spread into the hundreds. So for relatively small community, this creates a challenge for US. In addition, you know, we run fairly full occupancy even without a covert pace of 2 weeks ago. We had 30 since our emergency, the Mining term will have to come On because of this outbreak. We are raising the alarm. We were up 20 last Thursday, and I think we're at 33 or 34 as of this morning. And they're still coming in fairly rapidly. The other Yeah. Other issue we've had Is outbreaks in nursing homes, which has always been our Nightmare scenario. Ever since we didn't surge planning, Reginald, we and so we're doing the best we can to prepare to manage our capacity and to care for patients as they come in. But even with all those preparations as we were just discussing, you know, on this program today, I mean, people are going to have to wait. People are Nonis, are going to get the care when they need it when they come in. Correct? Well that's a can, that's a concern. You know, as of today we're doing Ok. But that could change in 12 hours. You know, as your previous guest was pointing out, staffing is the issue back in March, April, when we basically put our whole business on hold in order to develop capacity we, we have a surge plan that could probably double the number That we have the problem. Those staff right now we have 61 of our staff members out either on 14 or They live in this community where this thing and it's a huge, huge hit. You know, we have about 2300 employees. I won that hips are Cherry giving capacity. That has a girl Act impact, so even if we could surge to additional beds, we don't have staff for them. Last summer, when we saw surge, we were able to bring in staff from the Midwest and South and other areas traveled, Arts programs because of the nationwide search right now. Everyone's needed where they're Getting travel nurses to from other parts of the country is a very limited option right now we're across from this listener writes beyond observing safety protocols. How can regular civilians help support health care workers and our local hospitals? But what do you say to this listener? Well, we tried very hard to do and we saw this going as realizing that, you know, what we're trying to deal with in the hospital is the back and what we can do within the next 5 minutes. The next day, the next 3 days, as we come up on Thanksgiving, everybody can make choices. To reduce the spread, reduce transmission and manage the risk community from asking social distancing, limiting gatherings, deferring maybe what we would have liked to do for Thanksgiving. I think all those are very, very important things that every single person has the agency to do and make a difference. And that's what we're trying to do is recognize that what we have on the health care capacity side is really catching in the back and the front. And every single person really helps an opportunity to help Rick Ross and President of adventures health right out in Marysville. California, thanks so much for calling US. Thank you. Not really related to that. This listener writes, My parents live on the East Coast. We collectively decided to cancel holiday get togethers until the spring or summer. And it's sad, but long term thinking is more important. When I go next to Jenna in Ventura County . Hi Janet, my saying your name correctly? No, it's Jan of a Jan of a. Thank you so much for calling in. What's on your mind, Jennifer? Well, a lot of things are on my mind, but having to do with what your last speaker just said. If there's everyone has heard about all the things we need to do and everybody knows what we should do, but Nobody's doing it at least half the population doesn't seem to be doing it. And I'm wondering why aren't there some replications for this? Why aren't governors? Who are saying now asking is a must, Why are they saying to get people who aren't wearing an I see families going down, but our public bike pads on their bicycles Or not in public, bypasses the public walkways and there they've got their kids and Nobody's wearing announced and I mean there's elderly people going by, I happen to be one of them. And they don't consider putting on a mask or giving you 6 feet. It's just Crazy. We need something to do to the people who are not following instructions. I mean, do you think we need to do some more punitive things here in this country? I actually disagree with that. I can see why people, why people think that, but I think there is a very long history that shows that punitive measures don't work for public health . Like to actually do the things that we need to do to control this pandemic. You need Trust more than anything else, like people need to be able, people need to Trust that they can go for testing. They need to Trust the vaccines that are coming, then each to contact traces of calling them. And you wrote Trust when you go to a punitive mindset, I think what we need all policies that make it easier for people to do the right thing. So a lot of governors have said to people, I Salute distance or whatever. And those pleas are completely nullified by their policies which allow people to gather in restaurants and you know, and Not wear masks console. And I don't think punishment is the thing. I think you actually need to just have strong policies in the 1st place and many places throughout the u.s. Do not have that. You know, I think think about Nebraska that we spend a lot of time talking about. If Nebraska hates the highest possible tear of restrictions, based on the amount of hospitalizations it's receiving, that's still going to mean a lot of open restaurants, open gyms, indoor gatherings of 10 people. That's Like did the idea that that is the most restrictive thing. If the government is telling people Through policies that they can do those things, they will do those things and no amount of punishment or finding a what have you is going to stop them. We need to have a quarter native federal plan that actually makes it easier for people to jail the right thing and not just like in terms of you know, just don't think of the terms of like selfishness of selflessness. Some people don't have the choice to do these things because they live in poorer communities because they need to go to work for all kinds of other reasons. This is why I've talked about the importance of social interventions. Things like paid sick leave. Has it pay supporting businesses that might need to close because they are just too risky, like restaurants and balls? While Monica tweets, My family has been isolating and wearing masks and we leave the House since March. We are terribly frustrated by those who are privileged and can isolate, but choose not to the Salvation is on display is deeply troubling. Hunter writes, It's amazing to me, a 5 cent mask to prevent billions in healthcare costs. The hubris is unbelievable. And this listener writes public should never have been so sorely underfunded. It's inconceivable that the US has allowed in 1000 to run rampant. Everyone must listen up and take responsibility. Let me go to Linda in Palo Alto. Hi Linda. Hi. Well, it seems like in their stupidity or the lack of discipline, starts with childhood, you only have to see the roads to see how much trash is in the last 20 years is just poor uprooted. But my question goes more to this region or a product or company that's putting out. But apparently the President was given hours after he reported that he had a positive, is it not being made available? And the other part of that question is, once people reach the hospitals phase or stage of the disease, is that beyond a Efficacy or whatever, just the general on logic, whatever. Linda thinks, I mean, what can you tell US either about Gen and young, but also just the treatments that are available right now to people who are coming into hospital. So they were generally a product of monoclonal antibodies. So the idea is that you are you know, neutralizing the virus before it gets a chance to infect the cells. No, I don't. And I think this is still true that there has actually been cleared data yet there have been announcements and press releases. But like I'm a science fairness, I just want to say some actual data before weighing it. But, you know, some people are very optimistic about these products that they might help to stop the progression of infections from, you know, from early stages to being severe enough to warrant hospitalizations. If that is true, then that would be a bonus that would help to alleviate the burden on the healthcare system. But a few things on that. There are only limited numbers of doses of this, of this product available. You know, as we've said, America runs on this very, very bizarre system of employer based insurance. And a lot of the people who have been most vulnerable in this pandemic, so far lack lack Insurance. And so there's a massive issue of access to these drugs in terms of other drugs. There's really not that much. There's Antiviral drugs. I'm not going to be the thing that brings a pandemic under control. So the best we have dexamethasone does help to reduce mortality death rates among the most severely ill patients who are on ventilators, but by about 12 percentage points. Right. So that's not a cure. That's not going to be a magic panacea. That turns every sick patient into, you know, a healthy one who can then go home, antiviral drugs only ever tend to have incremental benefits on top of basic medical care. And as we said, basic medical care is really stretched right now. No. Because doctors and nurses are so stretched like so much of America has this idea that we turn to like the biomedical silver bullet to save US. And that's almost never the case. It's the people who are matter and the people who get neglected and discarded and left to shoulder, the response of the responsibility of everyone else's irresponsibility. We're talking with Ed Young, a science writer for The Atlantic. We're looking at the latest coronavirus surge with him and also what hospitals and frontline health workers are facing amid this surge. Gary, you are listening to form. I mean Occam, Gary writes, Well, Mr. Young has said on the show as a message which every single American should hear. He's given an emphatic, intangible explanation of the gravity of this pandemic which is even more dire than I had imagined. You also have a couple of listeners here and thanking you for your descriptions, which is what I had noted earlier in terms of what actually happens in the i.c.u. . This is their rights. Thank you for describing the details of what it means to be hospitalized with coded we here how serious it is, but not the details of what goes on, minute to minute. Maybe this will make a difference to some people how they spend their holidays and what they do day to day. This listener writes As a practicing physician in California, the concern isn't anything fancy, like trained personnel or i.c.u. Beds. The death rate is low now because we have everything we need. But if we run, out of simple things like gloves, i.v., fluids, oxygen or beds, complications, and death rates will increase to unimaginable levels. We've also heard Ed Young, there was a piece in The New York Times about how we now have a lot of ventilators, but few specialists to operate ventilators. We've also heard concerns about shortages in some of the basic things related to P. P E. Do you have any update on how hospitals are doing with this? What have they told you about whether they have enough of the basic supplies in the protective equipment? Yes, So that's one difference from Protective equipment. Was really enjoyed supply in a lot of places. That's not true to the same extent. Now, certainly a lot of Big hospitals have managed to stock up with a reasonable number of supplies that's not Universal. And a lot of smaller clinics, small hospitals, rural hospitals, long term health care facilities, all still drastically short of the protective equipment. They need to keep For their patients and themselves in the desert. A great organization will get this p.p.a. That has, you know, still, I believe tens of thousands of requests You know, for, for, for these kinds of basic things. Gloves, masks, and, you know, Even the places that have an f.p.p. This year that only does you so much good when you just don't have enough people. You know, we thought we heard this from one of the previous callers that the issue isn't, isn't bad, like a hospital bed might as well be a hotel bed. If it doesn't have a dedicated trained nurse who has the time to care for the patient in it. And that's what we're losing right now because of sickness, or just because of the cumulative trauma of people going on strike people called Tech, Do we just can't take it anymore. We're losing the health care workforce. And I want everyone to realize that we're talking about the, the next couple of weeks is being really bad. But even after this surge crests, even after Thanksgiving and Christmas go past and vaccine start rolling out, the consequences of this period right now on health care workers is going to continue for months. Because those people off to the curb in search subsides will still have to do catch up on all the elective surgeries that was possible from the, from this point in time. And all the patients with heart problems and cancers who delayed treatment because they couldn't go tossed or right now and will end up being much sicker in January and February. So we are not only stressing out our health care workers to breaking point right now, but we're going to be causing them grief for well into 2021. While the rest of US better start benefiting from things like vaccines and a New administration, which is why our choices right now, not only just generically, but like literally in the next few hours and days are going to make a huge difference to the people who are supposed to save our lives, Jim writes, The biggest problem is that the American public, myself included, have no idea how serious things are and I see use across the country and graphic description of what nurses have to deal with was truly eye opening and shocking. We really need more shows like this. We just have a minute left and that you men Vaccines and I Wonder how much the vaccine news. What role if anything, it's playing right now among the hospital workers, the the health care system, the people that you're talking with. I mean, is this something that is like great, but we can't even think about that right now, or is it fundamentally making them think about, you know, how to prepare for, for this and restructure in any way? I think more the former, I think it's hope it is, it is undoubtedly hope the light at the end of the tunnel has never been brighter, but the tunnel has never been darker. And healthcare workers know this. They know that the pandemic endgame is upon US. But they still have to get through the next couple of months. They see, you know, what I've talked about the wave of hospitalized patients that are going to happen. Even if not, even if 0 further Americans get infected from this day forward is still going to be a massive backlog. That is going to Slam into hospitals regardless. And that's going to happen regardless of what happens with the vaccine in the future. So my last words here, listeners think of it this way. Our decisions right now decide how many Americans was still alive to get a vaccine next year. And how many health workers are broken in the process. And sobering, last word. Thank you, science writer for The Atlantic. Thanks striker for this segment. Thanks listeners for listening. I mean, it can Funds for the production of Forum are provided by the members of k.q.e.d. Public Radio and the Germanicus Foundation and the generosity Foundation, trying his for here and now begins in just a minute on k.q.e.d. . Joe McConnell joins US again now for a look at Bay Area traffic, starting in the East Bay, 242 southbound. In Concord near this before the city interchange, there's a report of a crash that actually came in about 50 minutes ago. Lanes are clear, we're not seeing any son of a slow down in San Francisco. A collision reported just a couple of minutes ago in one of the northbound North of Cesar Chavez. But the vehicles are on the shoulder and the only Jam is in the Santa Cruz Mountains because of a Caltrans project on 17th South. On past Idlewild, it's a backed up well before headway. Joe McConnell for k.q.e.d. Traffic support this morning comes to you from San Mateo credit Union and support for k.q.e.d. Comes from Catholic high school, a compassionate College Prep, educating the Hearts and minds of students in the East Bay, offering rigorous academic sent a full array of artistic Athletic and co-curricular activities. Mauro Catholic daughter work here on San Francisco, North Highlands, Sacramento funding for here and now comes from Mathworks. Creators of Matt lot in Simulink software, Excel writing the pace of engineering and science. Learn more, and that works dot com from n.p.r. And you are Boston, I'm Tanya Mosley. I'm Peter O'Dowd. Coming up 900 employees of the mail clinics. Midwestern hospitals have tested positive for Kovan 1000 in a 2 week period. Most got sick outside of work. This is so widespread now that it's not just being transmitted from people taking risks, it's into trading or households. Also, College students are leaving campus for Thanksgiving break. And the State University of New York is now requiring students get a negative test before leaving. This is all across the system that I hear from. I'd like to thank you. We want to make sure that we're not bringing this invisible killer home potentially with US. And high speed Hyperloop trains just crossed over from Saif I to reality coming up here in the news is 1st Live from n.p.r. News. I'm Lakshmi saying President elect Biden's cabinet is shaping up to be a diverse one more reflective of the country. It will serve N.P.R.'s, Halid reports Biden's, announcing more nominations for his foreign policy and National security teams. But I didn't specs include longtime foreign policy aide, Tony Blinken, a Secretary of state. He's tapped Foreign Service veteran Linda Thomas Greenfield to be Ambassador to the United Nations and will really out of 8 that role to a cabinet position. Jake Sullivan will be Biden's National security adviser, and Avril Haynes will be the 1st woman nominated to serve as director of National Intelligence Biden's pick to lead the Department of Homeland Security. Our 100 Majorca will be the 1st Latino and 1st immigrant to hold that position. And former Secretary of State John Kerry has been named as a special presidential envoy for climate Helset on the National Security Council, which marks the 1st time the n.s.c. Will include in official focused on climate. A small College n.p.r. News in the final weeks of the Republican presidency, the Trump administration is pushing through controversial actions that will be up to the Biden administration to deal with once it takes over in January. Among them is u.s. Policy in the Middle East. N.P.R.'s Daniel Estrin says, Israeli media are reporting that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has flown to Saudi Arabia for a secret, unprecedented meeting with Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince. And that Secretary of State, my Compare was their Secretary pump AoE and Crown Prince Mohammed bin. Some men met Sunday in the city of neon, in Saudi Arabia. Multiple Israeli media outlets say Netanyahu was also there until now declined to comment, but an online flight tracker documented a private jet traveling from Tel Aviv to the Saudi city where pump a 0 and the Crown Prince were meeting, and 2 Israeli cabinet ministers appeared to confirm it in public comments, this would be the 1st known meeting between Israeli and Saudi officials. The 2 countries see Iran as a threat. They may be coordinating with the Trump administration on moves. Ron before President elect Joe Biden takes office Biden, has said he may reenter the Iran nuclear deal, which Israel is against Daniel Estrin n.p.r. News, Jerusalem, a 3rd drug makers introducing a coronavirus vaccine Astra Zeneca and Oxford University, say their vaccine is up to 90 percent effective if given into go says half dose and then a normal dose one month later. But Adrian Hill had a vaccine research at Oxford says it'll take months to determine how well the vaccine actually works. We were aiming for September, October. I still think that's a realistic aspiration. Hill says a vaccine has to be tested on tens of thousands of volunteers and ongoing Phase 3 trials. Meanwhile, the f.d.a. Is starting the process of granting emergency clearance for 2 other covert 1000 vaccines. It says, a public hearing for Pfizer's requests will be held December 10th. Moderna faces a similar review. A week later, You're listening to n.p.r. News live from k.q.e.d. News. I'm Brian Watt with coded 1000, surging across Santa Clara County, health officials. There have guidance for residents on what not to do for Thanksgiving. K.-q ease, Marcos Sila Gonzales says they're being pretty blunt. Cancel your holiday plans. Don't travel. That's County health officer, Dr. Sara Cody. She says hospitalizations for Kovan 1000 have soared 50 percent in the last week. Hospitals could exceed capacity within 2 weeks. If that trend continues. Cody also says the demand for Kovan 1000 testing is extremely high. She warns that people who want to get tested just to travel for the holidays are putting a needed strain on the system. There are plenty, plenty, plenty of people in a Central work who have private exposures that really, really do need to path. If you are going to have Thanksgiving with people outside your House, Cody advise it's limited to 2 other households. Keep it outside socially distant and wear a mask. I'm Marco Siler Gonzales, Kikhia. We do news. The head of the California end Is stepping down after a turbulent election season. Political consultant Alice Huffman sin a resignation later letter earlier this month. She plans to leave her post as President of the States in Chapter. By December 1st Hoffman was criticized for working in support of statewide measures that the National organization and other black leaders opposed. A statement from the California Says Hoffman is resigning due to health concerns. There's more news online at k.q.e.d. Dot Org. I'm Brian Watt in Oakland support comes from Cal Performances at home presenting Yo-Yo Ma in a stream. Primera Nov. 27th, Calvary Foreman says dot Org And support for n.p.r. Comes from C 3, C 3 dot Ai software enables organizations to use artificial into Genset enterprise scale solving previously unsolvable business problems. Learn more at C 3 dot a I and by the listeners and members of public radio. Seasonably cool temperatures today followed by slight warming today and Tuesday, a brief cooling on the way midweek with another gradual warming period. Thanksgiving Day through Saturday and rain will remain North of the Bay Area through our forecast period this week. From n.p.r. And w.b. You are, I'm Tanya Mosley, along with Peter O'Dowd. Later today, the state of Pennsylvania is expected to certify its results from the presidential election. The Trump campaign is pursuing one more legal challenge in that state. After a judge on Saturday, rejected the campaign's request to throw out some mail in ballots. And right now, Michigan is taking up whether to certify its votes totals to Republicans on the board of state canvassers may vote against certification. And there are a lot of questions about what happens next. Joining US now is Rick Pluta, who covers politics for Michigan Public Radio. And Rick certification is in the hands of this board. As I mentioned, which is a split between 2 Democrats and 2 Republicans, who are the Republicans, and are they making it clear? Which way they'll vote. Well, Aaron Vandervelde is one of them and he is actually the legal counsel for our State House Republican caucus. He works for Republicans in the legislature. The other is a norm shingled. He's kind of the Dean of the board. He's been on it for literally decades, and he's kind of, you know, the one that everyone's been looking at. But at the beginning of this meeting, urn Van de Velde seemed to signal that he will probably vote to certify, but he would not 2nd the motion to do it right away. And rather said that he wanted to wait to hear public comment. Although at 3 minutes per We did the back of the napkin map, meth that, that would probably take about 40 hours to get all the way through it. Not to mention there's Call, There's a Chap section that is just going by like it's a stock ticker. So, you know, a lot of interest in a lot of passion here. Absolutely. So you mentioned Norman Shank. Oh, he's a Republican board member. He actually asked the former director of elections, Christopher Thomas, who was testifying about whether the board could delay today's vote, hears Thomas' answer. But 1st of all, you know, part of the question is, and you're going to ask you whether you can ever vote no Certification. Delaying is voting no, Not necessarily. I mean, I think that 1st of all the answer is of course you can't. Oh no, there is no no Mr. Circumstance. Ok Rick, what are they talking about? Well, what Chris Thomas, who's the long term elections director for Michigan until he retired, is saying that basically it's either done or it's not done. And then he went on to testify. But this is done that there are some minor mismatches between the numbers of people who they counted as voting versus the number of people who walked in the door or sent in their ballots. But these are minor discrepancies, they won't, they can be balanced out, and they certainly won't change the result. And so it's time for the board to do its job and certify. Will this go to Court if, if there's a deadlock, If there is a deadlock, it will almost certainly go to Court. It could very likely go to Court even if there's not a deadlock. And that's what some people are arguing is that if the board does certify, then this clears the way for this to go to Court to argue about different aspects of the election, including whether or not there should be a recount. Yeah, there are lots of questions being asked about the Florida State campus areas right now. Why is the process so broken in Michigan? Why even have this board? Well, I mean, usually the board is here to sort of check the box and they kind of the idea is that Republicans and Democrats are acting as a check on each other in the process. But there is an element of good will of that expected of Trust that doesn't really seem to be present in the current environment, which is why, you know, we're not only seeing this process playing out here, but also various machinations that should the board of canvassers refused to certify can the Governor remove a canvasser, basically, you know, in active impeachment and try to bring in someone who would do that in. So I suspect that after this is over, this process which is in our state Constitution will be revisited. I only have about 30 seconds with you. You mentioned that lots of public outcry, protesters for and against certification are making their voices heard. What's the mood right now? Well, it's all online. And like I said that on the chat side, it's just moving like a stock ticker with people going certify do your job and others say this is a fraud, don't do it. And so, I mean there's a lot of passion here in Michigan, but it's also a, you know, a Central player in this electoral drama. So to be expected. Yes, Rick Pluta is Chief political correspondent for Michigan Public Radio. Well, with a week still to go in November, the United States has already seen 3000000 New people infected with the coronavirus . It's a quarter of the country's total cases recorded in just 21 days. The surge is straining hospitals at the World renowned Mayo Clinic. There's news that more than $900.00 workers have tested positive for covert 19 over a 2 week period in November, Dr. Laura Briere is an occupational health specialist at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. Dr. Brewer, welcome, and tell US 1st about these numbers, which must have been as alarming to you as it was to everybody else. So we've been tracking this since the onset of the pandemic, and in some ways it was surprising and others. It wasn't because we know that there is a surge across the Midwest happening so it was not especially surprising when our employees started testing positive from those exposures that they're having in their household and community. Well, maybe you saw it coming, but 900. The number itself is large, were those employees at different mail campuses across the Midwest? Yes, it is a large number of health care workers that I can appreciate that that stood out to many people. But we also have many, many House care workers across our last campuses. So we have 68000 staff across the u.s. As well as 55000 across the Midwest alone. And those numbers include not just health care workers that are working in our hospitals and clinics, but also health care workers that are telecommuting. That is good context. A Doctor in the Williams, Dean of clinical practice of Mayo, said that 93 percent of the infected staff did not catch the virus at work. How do you know that? So we interview every person that test positive for Kovac staff members as well as students on tears contractors to determine if they had an exposure to someone with Coke at 19 as well as if they had any exposure to pay for. And if they have any, breach in p.p., And so we've been very carefully assessing that since the onset of the pandemic. So I look at this morning and less than 5 percent of infections right now. Were from a confirmed exposure within our campuses. And that's because the vast majority of those happened early on before we knew a lot about this before Universal masking. So the recent infections, the vast, vast majority of those are happening in the community and households. Well, what does that suggest to you? It is, it, does it say that people are letting their Guard down once they get outside the hospital? There are some situations where people will go to a public setting and we can control our own mask use. But, you know, we can't be confident that other people be wearing their masks, that becomes a risk for transmission to US. The other things that we've been seeing are increasing household transmissions. Recently in the past month, just under 30 percent, 27 percent of our known positive interactions are from a confirmed household exposure. That can happen because College students are coming home and they've been exposed on campus and subsequently developed or children participating in sports events or things like that. This is so widespread now that it's not just being transmitted from people taking risks, it's also being transmitted because it's infiltrating our households. And once it gets into a household, it's kind of hard to escape that. So I think that's why it's very, very important that we all practice precautions and assume every single person we encounter might have coded. So throughout the course of this pandemic, we've been talking about a shortage of hospital beds, a shortage of ventilators and protective equipment. Now that the virus really starts to be taking off this fall and into the winter, we're talking about a shortage of hospital staff here. So what does all of this need for the level of care in Side your hospitals have that many people infected. So when we look across our Midwest practice, today we have 7800 employees that are either out due to cold it infection or have restrictions due to exposure. So that's impacting our staffing. What we found recently is, especially since these exposures are happening in the household in the community, it's unpredictable. We are, those infections will happen. I know that right now. We are doing many things to ensure adequate staffing, including some of our colleagues from our Arizona and Florida practices coming to the Midwest to help staff our hospitals. Our doors are open right now. It's very safe to come get care. But I think that it's also very important that we all come together right now and start practicing those precautions so that the situation doesn't get worse. We know that masking work social distancing works, and so we can't give up on those precautions just do to have vaccine on the Horizon even once vaccines are available, it will take months and months to vaccinate the u.s. Population. That's Dr. Laura Brewer, an occupational health specialist at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. Dr. Thank you, Stacey, for your time. Thank you. You're listening to hear no Due to the pandemic, Thanksgiving gatherings are likely going to be scaled down a lot. But there are still reasons to Cook and eat a special meal. You come out to and you are what you eat. I mean, I cannot be a Bowl of popcorn standing over a kitchen sink. 3 sets the rescale down Thanksgiving Beth this afternoon on All Things Considered from n.p.r. News. Find out how to celebrate Thanksgiving with those chefs. All things considered and k.q.e.d. News later this afternoon at 430. I'm Jack Lepi. Ours global coronavirus cases have, now passed 58900000 with nearly 1400000 deaths in the u.s., researchers at Johns Hopkins University Count more than 12300000 cases and about, 257000 deaths. Meantime, the u.n., whether agency says, Despite a drop in emissions steering the pandemic pollutants and greenhouse gases remain at record levels in the atmosphere. The World Meteorological Organization says the past few years have been records for carbon emissions, and that it will take years for their levels to drop President elect Joe Biden is turning to a long time aide to serve as his Secretary of state. Naming Tony Blinken, former Deputy Secretary of state, he served as Biden's National Security Advisor when he was Vice President. You're listening to here and now On the next fresh Air. Kathryn Coleman flours talks about her campaign to bring basic sanitation to the nation's poor. So many people in rural Alabama lack Cemetery, waste disposal, but a study documented the reemergence of hookworm intestinal parasite previously thought eradicated. Coleman flowers has been awarded a MacArthur grant to continue her work. Join US to join US Tonight for fresh Air at, 7. The seating on member supported k.q.e.d., where support on this Monday morning comes to you from Schoenberg, Family Law, Group, Family law, firm, specializing in high asset complex divorce and custody litigation throughout the, Bay Area. Learn more at s. f.l.g. Dot com Santa Clara University of Silicon Valley's oldest incubator of ideas and ideals. Since 851, it's been home to generations of leaders innovating with a mission. More and more it s.e.u. Dot Edu. Funding for here and now comes from the listeners of w.b. . You are Boston and Geico celebrating over 75 years of providing Auto insurance for drivers across America. More information on Auto insurance available at Geico dot com or 180947 Auto. It's here and now millions of students at colleges and universities across the country are preparing for Thanksgiving break. A time when most of them with usually leave campus. But this year, at the end, you will student exodus has been stalled by the surging pandemic. And schools are taking extra precautions to stop the spread of the coronavirus at the State University of New York system known as Sunni. All students will be required to provide proof of negative test results before they're allowed to leave. Jim Sunni's, Chancellor and he joins US now for more from Albany, New York, welcome. Thank you for having me on. So normally soon he has about 400000 full time students across 64 campuses, but now during the fall semester only about 140000 were actually there. How many of them have been test itself are? So we've been testing now for about 2 weeks. As we wind down our in person classes for meters and the semester. And today we've tested 149000 students and faculty, so we're virtually there as the everyone we have today and Tomorrow we end up Tomorrow at noon. But we're basically there already. It's been a tough, arduous task, a giant operational undertaking and challenge our campus that done quite well. Tell US more about that. I know that New York Governor, Andrew Cuomo and 6 other governors in the Northeast are urging colleges to provide free testing how to you all undergo this. Did you provide testing are paying for these tests or are students making their own arrangements? So this was something that was really important to US home about a month and a half ago, most health experts told US to basically send people home during Thanksgiving and then transition to remote learning. So like we set up the system to be that way. Let's take an extra precaution. Let's mandate that we test all of our students on the way out. So while most systems are colleges and universities are offering the testing, we actually made it a requirement for Students before they left, but they're used to it. We required at the beginning of the semester that every one of our 64 campuses test regularly are students or faculty in our staff. So that's why I think we've had a smoother time at this. We do it for free. We don't charge students, faculty or staff for it and we're able to produce it. And in campus test, we can do about $200000.00 tests a week or so. And we, we took the cost on ourselves and no one has to pay out of pocket for it. Students are, are used to this, as you said, over this past semester and they're used to this requirement, but how are you enforcing it? So, you know, the good thing is, there's been so much cynicism about students all across the nation. And you know, sometimes it's warranted, you've seen outbreaks arise because of large parties and students not conforming to the social distance guidelines. We had a couple of examples ourselves at the State University of New York system. But overwhelming majority of our students have complied with the social distancing in the masks and not doing large gatherings. So I think our sins have been really mindful of doing tests because they don't want to bring the virus home infect their loved ones, right? They're going to go home and see their parents. They're going to see their grandparents. They're going to see their immune compromised brothers and sisters. They don't want to bring it home. So the scenes I've been talking to every student all across the system that I hear from are like, thank you. We want to make sure that we're not bringing this invisible killer home potentially with US. But for those small number of students don't comply with that mandatory testing. We have a pretty strict rules in place. One of the things that we did when I became Chancellor at the end of August for the State University of New York was we put in uniform compliance policies. Which means if you violate the covert protocols on your campus, if you don't do mandatory testing in those types of things, you could be suspended or even expelled from College. There's serious consequences because this is a serious National health crisis. But we've had to use that Very sparingly, mostly because they want to do the right thing. I hear exactly what you're saying, but can we, can we do the one if farm Ahmed of students test positive and they don't have a safe option to isolate. For instance, you've actually said you're keeping campuses then how is that working? It is Sunni, providing and paying for housing and medical care for the students who can't leave if they test positive and for how long. In New York state, like most States, if you test positive for it's a 14 day isolation of corn team period, we have a responsibility to our students as well. Right? Some students have the ability to work with their local health Department and find a space at home. But for many of our students who are living through this deeply, troubling time, health Wise, but also economically right there like living on the edge with housing and security and food insecurity. And we thought it was really important to mandate that our campuses remain open for those students who need housing, who need meals, who need medical support, which they are doing. And this is a moving target, right? Right now we have about 900 students who have tested positive all across our system, right? That number changes day to day, depending on who comes in and who comes out about 87 percent of those students right now. Are isolated On our campuses or in a apartment, right? Off campus and things like that where the services are being provided by the campus . We have a deep responsibility and commitment to our students, and we don't want to change that now, given the health crisis, given that they may not have a place to go given that's around the holidays too, it's really tough on many of our students and their families. So we wanted to take care for them. You mentioned how this is been really hard on students and families . And I hear that that city has said it's expanding its mental health services for students. What if you heard from soon so far about how they're doing through all of this? This is been a really difficult time for our students. I think our students were happy to be back. And we, one of the things You large University systems in the country to bring students back like you mentioned. But you know, the issues of loneliness and isolation and living in this different time, we have to be social. The distance, as a matter of public health, has taken a toll on our students. This is a really tough time, not only for everyone in Society, right. I mean, everybody is feeling this code 50. But at the same time, especially our students, because they're living in a different environment, they're away from their families and it's really tough and challenging for them. Yeah, this is also a really expensive undertaking. I can imagine how much is Sunni spending to cover all of these extra costs? Well, their testing has cost several $1000000.00 probably for all of our campuses. Mental health service expansion is probably cost several $1000000.00 as well. These are difficult budget times for everyone across our communities, especially in States that need desperate federal aid, which we hope to get soon. But in the, in a way we don't really have a choice. So you always find ways in these difficult times to prioritize funding where they need to be prioritized for. So we're cutting back into other areas where we have not, we don't need to spend. So we can spend in those areas that need spending the most last month Sunni announced the resignation of its President after more than I think about 700 students tested positive there. Other campuses have reported just a handful of cases. What precautions have you taken on campus to prevent New infections? I understand that the continual testing that's happening. But how are you coordinating these plans across the dozens of campuses throughout the state? So one of the things I want to bring to bear is chance there was more uniformity across our 64 campuses. We put in place uniform testing rules. So every campus had to test. We put more uniform compliance rules in place, so it was being evenly applied. So there were serious consequences for violating public health orders by our students and others. We put in a transparency program. So you can actually go to a dashboard and see what's going on in individual campuses. So people have the right to know our parents, our faculty, our students, and then we put in more uniformed social distancing rules, mandatory masks at all times limiting density and things like that. All of those things together has worked. But really what it's come down to is reinforcing. This is a public health crisis. Only on it was a giant wake up call for our system. When I got that call, there were 2 cases of coded on campus. 2 weeks later, there were 700 cases. I think that was a way for people say, wait a minute, this Feds really quickly. This isn't Gonna get, Let's take extra care and our students have done that. Chancellor, we're all learning as we're going. I mean, this pandemic has really forced US to Act really fast. And looking back at this fall semester, Do you have any regrets? Staying open, maybe as long as you have or any other steps that you make? And as you look to the spring semester, What are you thinking about as is ways to do things differently. What I think we've all found during this crisis as people are learning more and more, right? You know, I think you have to be flexible and adaptable, and we're a giant system. We're like a giant Ocean liner. It's really hard for the Ocean liner to turn in the Ocean. But we've had to do that pretty quickly in order to adapt. And that really does show that you can address these issues in a meaningful way you can adapt once we heard Dr. Thout, you know, others saying that Thanksgiving travel will be problematic. We adapted, we said Let's exit test all of our sins as a mandate. When we heard that you needed more social distancing rules, and that's clearing we complied. And we said, Let's do the editorial math at all times. So I think constant adaptability is that, and you're seeing that from US as well. Going into the spring. We know that the cold in the winter months are something that are a concern to our public health experts. So we're starting our semester later in the semesters, instead of starting in January, we're going to start in February, but they come back to US a month from now and say, wait a minute, there's too many cases going on in your state. Take a little more time will take a little more time. We've had Unfortunately cancel spring break for the spring because we don't want to students traveling across the country and going to different places. They call me chance for no fun, which I feel sad for some time for them a lot of fun time. But in the end you adapted so instead of doing a spring break, we're doing mental health and wellness day throughout the course of the semester. We have to balance access to quality education in a time where you need more education now than ever with public safety and public health. And I think we've been able to balance a Hole quite well. And that always goes back to the it's not what I said, it's what the That's Chancellor of the State University of New York Says, Thank you so much for taking the time. We're coming up on what's usually a busy time of year for travel, but in 2020 Because of $1000.00 plus with so many of US traveling, we're taking your calls, the 1970 about how to make this Thanksgiving and the holiday season. A little brighter. That's next time on the take away from Another hour of The Takeaway resuming today on this Monday, coming up with one of the Public radio where support for Black Bottom directed by George c. Wolfe, Chadwick Boseman and Viola Davis as the legendary in select theaters, Wednesday Netflix December 18th, California community of life science company, bringing vaccines, Therapeutics and diagnostics to patients in need and innovative biotech solutions to address global challenges Area and the Sunny skies today. In the Fifty's to the mid sixty's highs, 59 to 65 Clear skies for the most part seasonable temperatures to start a week of dry weather and modernists fluctuations in temperatures. A slight warming trend in store for Tomorrow followed again by cooler temperatures on Wednesday and from Thanksgiving to Friday, mostly dry Funding for here and now comes from the listeners of w.v.u. Are Boston and Mathworks creators of Matlab and Simulink software for technical computing and model based design, Mathworks, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at Mathworks dot com and do a Lingo. A language learning app built around the idea that learning should be fun to keep learners motivated with bite sized lessons in more than 34 languages. Dual Lingo is available as, a nap or at dual Lingo dot com From n.p.r., and It's here and now I'm Tanya Moseley. A recent poll by the American Psychiatric Association shows that nearly 2 thirds of Americans feel more anxious than they did this time last year. The pandemic has heightened mental health problems nationwide and some experts say this is led to an increase in drug overdoses. Side effects Public Media's Darian Benson reports with a surgeon Kovan 1000 cases. Illinois officials are urging people to stay home and other Midwest States, such as Indiana and Iowa, are adding questions to limit gatherings that worries Brandon, George, director of the Indiana addictions issues coalition. He says restrictions might shut down, recovery meetings for Narcotics Anonymous and other groups just like they did in the spring. We were Lucky with the seasonal timing of the 1st round of shutdowns. A lot of the meetings, a lot of meeting with other people and getting that serial connection, we were able to improvise and do that outside and winter meeting outside might not be an option for people with substance use disorder. George says isolation can be deadly or finding a lesser less safe ways to be able to interact with folks. In addition, a deadly alcoholism is deadly. For some people that might be the most of this piece, health care allies or the closing down businesses and issuing stay at home, orders help combat Kovan 1000. But George says that might have done more harm than good for those with substance use disorder. The solution for one pandemic was the opposite of the solution for the overdose crisis. Less of it than the overdose rates are increasing. Nationwide and Indiana for overdoses started to go down in 2019. Emergency departments are seeing a more than 80 percent rise. This year and overdose deaths increased more than 30 percent between January and May. The Pinta make has made a lot of problems worse, including depression and Anxiety. And that means more people might be turning to drugs and alcohol, the technical term. It's called Cold War, But at the end goal more than getting the patients had more than one condition. 2 conditions. That's Kurt Conky, a researcher with the Rican Street Institute in Indianapolis. He says this is common in people with substance use disorder. There are much greater risk of also suffering from depression and probably have heard a half or more also have depression as well as a problem with opiate Heaven Ferran use drugs to cope with mental health problems. He's 23 and lives in Fishers. A suburb, just North of Indianapolis. It's kind of like escape from anything like weather things, ID, anger, anything you're going through when you do it. You just feel completely now. He says he got clean this year and I was the 1st time I was able to deal with my life like a normal human being would, you know, actually being able to like deal with mines Id, get a job and be a functioning member of Society. But the pandemic has made it more of a struggle and he still gets the urges that lead him to drugs. The Reagan Chief and situates Kurt cranky, is working on a study that helps treat depression and opiate use disorder simultaneously. I mean, you can imagine a person who's have problems with opiate, the press, it's going to be or get a call for them to participate in treatment for their problem like opiate, Meanwhile branded George in the Indiana addictions issues coalition are preparing for the state legislators next session in January. It's not going anywhere, not over this crisis isn't going anywhere and will govern, make sure that we stay focused on both of those things. The coalition is pushing for more health, flexibility and an extension for the States to wrench exchange program. Those resources to help her recovery community, even after the pandemic ends for here now and again, Benson in Indianapolis, Joe Biden won Pennsylvania and the presidential election. What do Pennsylvania who supported him? Expected him now? My expectation, it's going to be a Kinder friendly Air and professional President Pennsylvanians look ahead to the Biden presidency on the next Morning Edition from n.p.r. News. Looking ahead to the next morning edition. It's Tomorrow morning, 2 am until 9 am a Public radio and it's Forum I'm Jack there. Corona virus vaccine is showing positive results. This one from Astra Zeneca and the Oxford University initial results showed the drug was up to 90 percent effective. However, it produced results as low as 62 percent effective depending on the dosage that patients received. Hungry meantime is moving forward with testing a Russian coronavirus vaccine. It's the 1st European country to get access to the Sputnik 5 drug that was approved over the summer, even without finishing clinical trials. General Motors is recalling about $7000000.00 trucks and S.U.V.s worldwide to replace potentially deadly took out. An airbag inflators comes after regulators ordered the company to recall $6000000.00 vehicles in the u.s. For the same issue, expected to cost the company $1200000000.00. You're listening to hear and now Authorities in China used to warn about the dangers of computer games. Now some 600000000 Chinese are on line gamers all play one on em all a while back like this young woman who traveled 500 miles to watch the sports professionals square off in a Shanghai Stadium. China's obsession with the sports. It's on the World. More about it on the World today, along with other International news stories join US starting at to support for, k.q.e.d. comes from 2 chairs, offering evidence based therapy throughout California. Supporting mental health to chairs works to thoughtfully match individuals with a licensed therapist for virtual sessions. With more than 4000 clients, 2 chairs dot com and good eggs delivering local produce mail kits, wine and more. Throughout the Bay Area. More information including expanded delivery area is available at good eggs dot com, absurdly fresh groceries delivered Funding for here and now comes from Landmark College in Vermont on campus and online programs for College and high school students with learning differences, executive function and attention challenges. Faculty special Support more at the bridge dot Org Martini productions with 4 games in fall, the Tom Brady deflate documentary, exploring how the tactics used to manufacture the scandal have impacted the World for games in fall streaming on Amazon Prime I Tunes and Google Play. This is here and now a New form of all true high speed travel is moving a step closer to reality. Earlier this month, human passengers rode in a Hyperloop train for the 1st time ever. The Virgin Hyperloop test run was on a 500 meter track North of Las Vegas. The passenger Pod traveled inside an enclosed to more than 100 miles per hour, though it could have reached much greater speeds. Here's how the video channel b. One m. Describes the technology. Was 1st conceived in 2012 by Tesla and Space x. Found In a white paper released the following year. Musk set out his vision for a futuristic Super high speed transportation system. There was see passenger Pods move through a partial vacuum in steel cheaps addressing the 2 key factors that slow down conventional vehicles, friction and Air resistance. Virgin Hyperloop is one of a handful of companies that's currently trying to build a system for passenger travel in sorrow. Lukian is the company's director of passenger experience. She was also one of the 2 people on board, the test ride. Sarah, welcome to here, and now I'm excited to hear how this test went. What was it like to travel inside Hyperloop? It was exhilarating. I mean, it was, it was such a thrill, largely because of the Psychology at the moment, understanding the magnitude of what we were accomplishing. But of course it was a sporty ride. And yelling, basically, How long did it take? The whole ride was only 15 seconds from start to finish, probably the most memorable 15 seconds of my life. Ok, so Let's just back up a little bit. You were in this pod inside a vacuum tube and I'm sorry if that's not the technical term there, but just take a minute to explain how it works. Like, what's the technology behind the system? Yeah, absolutely. So with our vehicles which we call Accelerate. Ra Julie via electric propulsion inside of this low pressure too. It's not a perfect at him, but it's very close. And so the pod actually glides along using the magnetic levitation and can reach very high speeds because there's no friction in a vehicle against track and there is no aerodynamic drag. So what I experienced was basically MAG laugh within a vacuum. As you note it got to about 107 mph in just 6 seconds. And did you not go as fastest because your track was only 500 meters? Well, Yeah, that's exactly right. We are constrained by the length of the tube. So if we were to go up to our intended speeds of over 600 miles per hour, of course the acceleration would be very fast and that would subject the human passengers to g. Forces and you know, wouldn't be very comfortable. No, did you feel forces at $100.00 mph, I felt the acceleration a little bit. It was maybe 2 or 3 times as strong as what you feel when you're taking off in a plane. But certainly not uncomfortable. But if you went 6 times faster than that, how do you make it so that it's not 6 times as uncomfortable or could you? Oh, we absolutely could. And one of the advantages of the Hyperloop is that we have control over the environment. So we would just excel or at a slower rate, and when you have more length of tube, you can do it over a greater distance. So our intention is for the acceleration to be about point 2 G.'s, which is very similar to what we have in conventional trains today. You barely feel what's the significance of pulling this test off and how much closer does it get you to fulfilling whatever dream it is that you're reaching for with Hyperloop. This is a major milestone for a couple of reasons. 1st of the most important thing about the Hyperloop is that it absolutely has to be safe. And we demonstrated that safety with 2 passengers and then another to the next day in a system. I also think it's a major milestone because it demonstrates the dedication of a group of people who are able to get together and make this happen Despite the difficulty of this year and overcoming the obstacles of Cove and other things. I think it's really a Testament to the team and their passion for a cleaner and more connected future. But there's still a lot of hurdles to clear before you can get to a point where you're moving passengers and cargo at any significant scale. The technology is something you're still working on, the infrastructure building that would be a major undertaking in acquiring land to build it on would also be a Big deal. What problem are you most focused on right now trying to solve? There is a lot of work still to do, of course, as you know that, but we're at, this is a step toward certification, right? We have recently announced our have really upset if occasions and are in the state of West Virginia and that is going to move US even closer to having independent and safety assessors, regulators evaluate and ensure that it is safe for passengers at commercials. So of course we need the collaboration of government and you know, everything else that you noted. Those are all obstacles, but they're absolutely surmountable. And we have a lot of momentum now. I'm just thinking about how hard it is to build a high speed rail project of the United States there. So I mean, what makes you think this building Hyperloop would be any easier? Well, I think that it's not high speed rail, right? This is the 1st New mode of transportation in over a century that, you know, I think one of the issues with existing is that they have a legacy problems from the 20th century. Whether it's rails way Air. And we're building for a 21st century solution in some regions of the World where essentially leapfrogging the technology of the last several decades. Our value proposition is different. We're moving at such high speeds that we can effectively connect cities like Mattress stops. You know, it's on demand, it's direct to destination. We can really transform economies in a way that people live. So what is the dream? What cities do you want to correct? Well, you know, I think if there's one thing we've learned from this year is that no one has a Crystal ball. It's really hard to know which place will land 1st. I'm personally biased because I live in Los Angeles and have, I would take just from downtown to Santa Monica, would be a huge time savings. But the thing that is really remarkable to me is that we have at so much enthusiasm from people around the World. Everyone seems to see the use case for them and their community and their region. And I'm just thinking so l.a. To Santa Monica would be a very quick trip. What about something like l.a. To San Francisco? You're talking about a distance of several, 100 miles that would take you what like 20 something minutes. Yeah, maybe half an hour. And that's exactly right. I mean, I think everyone can see how their lives might be transformed if they were able to connect major cities to one another, but also to have access to those cities need be from more rural or suburban reach and where to really transform where we could live access for affordable housing to all cities, good jobs. And so I of course, would love to see my friends in San Francisco. I'd love across Continental or I think the real power of the hybrid When it is a network and not just an a.t.v. Really. But of course, I'll be some years ahead at the thinking about what this future would look like. The idea of a failure or a collision going at those speeds as something that you know, everyone before they step on board. This type of system is going to think about, you're one of like the only people on Earth who've ever actually done it. Were you scared at all when you got on board? I actually was not scared at all. I was excited. I think if I had any nerves, it was more about not wanting to say something stupid in front of the cameras. And sure if I have absolute confidence in the team that we have at the company to create a safe and effective system. And you know, the system is designed to be inherently safer than other modes. We have multiple redundancies in place. It's operating autonomy Asli in an enclosed too. So it's not susceptible to weather accidents from, you know, x. Rated crossings. Are a cow on the track. It's not susceptible to human error power outages. So from my perspective, this is ultimately a safer system than existing mounts. True, but sometimes we don't know what we don't know. That's Sarah Lukian, who was one of the 1st 2 passengers on a Virgin Hyperloop test ride. In the desert, North of Las Vegas, Nevada. Thank you for sharing your experience with US. We should thank you so much for having me And we'll have pictures of sorry inside that passenger Pods. Pretty wild at the here and now dot Org. And we'll link you up with that video about the Hyperloop technology. If you want to learn more, you're listening to hear and know Judy Woodruff on the next news hour, double whammy. Hell, Nicaragua is recovering from 2 back to back Hurricanes. That's Monday on the p.b.s. Newshour. We'll have the story and other news today, 3 pm on the p.b.s. News Hour on key support today comes from jazz of the ballroom presenting Holiday Inn and evening. Reminiscent of the old Holiday shows by Crosby, Frank Sinatra and other singing greats. December 4th, details that Chaz of the ballroom dot com. And by Go Fund Me this holiday season Go Fund Me, introduces 5 causes to help unite people around a Central need and raise awareness for the Joy of giving featured causes include social Justice education and 1000 relief 2 animals or more. A Go Fund, Me Funding for here and now comes from the listeners of w.b. . You are Boston and your n.p.r. Station. Math works creators of Matlab and Simulink software for technical computing and model based design. Math works, Excel aerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at math works dot com. And Geico offering Auto insurance coverage for cars, trucks or S.U.V.s, and providing 247 customer service. More information on Auto insurance at Geico dot com or 180947 Auto. It's here and now it wasn't a surprise that Big cities were strongholds for Democrats. This election Joe Biden won all of the 20 largest cities in the United States. And while that may seem like a good thing there, Thompson writes that Democrats reliance on the biggest cities to deliver votes is creating problems for the Party. There is a staff writer at The Atlantic and has a New piece out on this Tomorrow called Why Big City dominance is a problem for Democrats. He joins US now from Washington as he does each Monday. Welcome back. Great to be here. Thank you. Yes. So can you tell US more about how important cities and densities have really become for Democrats, from an electoral standpoint, Democrats win cities, period. They just win Big cities. They win the biggest cities and they win the suburbs of the biggest cities. That is the coalition. It is a handshake between density that is the largest downtown areas and diplomas, the highest educated suburbs of those Metros. If you go online and you type into the search bar, largest US cities by population, and you scroll down the list, New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, you have to scroll all the way to number 25, Oklahoma City before you get to a Metro that Joe Biden didn't win in November. Democrats are just without question, the Party of the city today, and that's often reflected as a wonderful thing about their future because cities and Metros are growing, but I really think it's not necessarily a good thing. It's creating a lot of problems in the Party. Well, more specifically, you write that Democrats Metro coalition is a Nightmare for winning National elections, which has to do with the Electoral College and the Senate lay out some numbers for US that show US why that's true. Sure, what we hear about Democrats problems in life all the time. I don't have to go into that. The real problem honestly is the Senate, the Senate as everybody knows, privileges, smaller States. That's just how it was designed. And it is a fact, it's a Quirk of modernity that most of the small States today have rural populations with lots of white people without a College degree. And that's the sweet spot for the Republican Party. The g.o.p. Currently holds both Senate seats in Alaska, Arkansas, Idaho. Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, South, Dakota and Wyoming. Those 11 States have 22 Senators, who collectively represent fewer people in the population of California. So that's the Democrats' problem right there. In a Nutshell, Yes, Democrats can win the Senate. They have won the Senate, but it requires them to win Big in multiple elections in a row. Just looked at 2 years ago in the $28.00 Terms, Democrats lost the National popular vote in the Senate contests. They won the National popular vote by 18000000, but they lost Tonight. Senate seats, the Republicans. It's just a terrible, terrible map for Democrats to win in the Senate going forward. Well, you also point to Progressives, living in the wealthiest cities from San Francisco to New York City, who have created a philosophy that does not go over well in other parts of the country. You actually call it Instagram socialism. Can you explain that? Yeah, I'm going to get in trouble for this one, but Here's, I'm saying there's no question that young College educated people in America's richest cities are really progressive. I have before called them effectively a 3rd Party in America to the left to the Democratic Party. They're also extremely online, and there is something about the dynamics of online interaction that tends to push conversations toward their extreme. And this is created, I think, an urban political movement in this country that is just very far to the left of the average American Americans love ideas like Universal health care if you poll them. But overall they aren't that fond of socialism. And some problems the Democratic Party is that they're young base in cities, extremely educated, extremely online. This movement of what I call Instagram socialism does have a way of branding, popular ideas, like Universal health care with unpopular ideas like socialism. And we have to get to a point, Democrats have to get to a point where they are thinking more about the marginal voter for their Party. And not just about the base. Will you give California as an example of this vast Canyon between Liberal Progressives in cities and everywhere else? The L. A Times actually reported a lot of what you're saying here on that divide and how it shows up in voting patterns on a number of ballot measures like rent control and criminal Justice. But what does California tell US about the viability of progressivism right now? Nationwide? It tells US that cities are far to the left of the regions around them. In the last 10 years, Los Angeles and the Bay area have moved far to the left to the rest of California. The Los Angeles Times published an analysis of California ballot measures that found that l.a. And the Bay Area of San Francisco were 30 points. The left of other Californians on issues like affirmative action and I used to vote now a 30 point gap is a massive gap. That's like the difference between the state of Massachusetts in a presidential election and a purple state like Pennsylvania. So from a political perspective, it's just a straightforward fact that Los Angeles and the Bay Area are beginning to look like leftist havens in an otherwise moderate state. That is a microcosm of I think what we're seeing nationwide is that Metros are growing in population, but their downtown areas, in particular, their young, a population within those downtown areas has just moved significantly to the left of the average American. And it's creating a really difficult tension within the, within a Democratic Party. That's a riotous coalition between Who represent New York City and people in the suburbs of Georgia. Thank you so much for. Thank you. Is a production of n.p.r. Science Providing pre-K. Through grade engineering curricula To engineering the future with teacher storybooks hits and videos. First President Trump fired his Secretary defense. Now he's Saber rattling with China Trumps making some Big foreign policy decisions and the fires he starting could be very hard to put out on Philippine World Affairs. On this week's episode, Nicholas Burns, former u.s. Ambassador to NATO explains how Trump's actions during this lame duck period can jeopardize our National security Right here on Another hour of Farah. Now in just a minute after we say good morning, minute left of the morning with Julie definition for a look at traffic in the Santa Cruz Mountains. And the Dave there doing little tree work on who we 17 southbound between he Bridge Road in Summit road and working in the right Lane and and should be wrapping up in about an hour North of Petaluma got a car fired, northbound 101 after all Ridgewood Highway that's over on the shoulder and it's freeway wide, open no delays. There, northbound $8080.00 just about 10 minutes from San the rent. So to downtown Oakland Traffic support today comes from European sleep work support for k.q.e.d., Comes from p.g. And e., reminding customers to have an emergency supply kit ready in case of power outages or other emergencies for help creating them. Visit Safety Action Center p.g. Dot com. Thank you for listening. I'm day Freeman on k.q.e.d. F.m. San Francisco.
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