Into k.q.e.d. San Francisco and take you we North Island Sacramento it's 9 pm. Around the world the vaccine rollout begins what lessons might mean learn as we get ready to do the same here from w.a.m. Year and n.p.r. In Washington this is one and. Today on one day it's the global edition of The Friday news roundup Canada and Saudi Arabia have joined the United Kingdom in approving ties are skilled at vaccine is the u.s. Next on the docket so far distribution is going well but a warning for people with a history of serious allergies could be an early stumbling block Meanwhile charges have been brought in the Beirut explosion that left hundreds dead earlier this year Mount Everest gains a few feet and Europe and the u.k. Start to lose hope over getting a trade deal and we'd love you to weigh in to tweet us at $18.00. Live from n.p.r. News I'm nor rom millions of Americans could begin getting vaccinated against Cofa 19 this month the Food and Drug Administration Friday night authorized the emergency use of the vaccine developed by fire and German company by an attack it's been shown to be 95 percent effective in preventing the disease in a late stage trial N.P.R.'s Richard Harris has more with this emergency youth authorisation Pfizer can begin shipping 2900000 doses of the vaccine to designated hospitals and long term care facilities around the country and hospitals can started ministering the drug to medical staff and people who work and live in nursing homes and the like you know those people face a high risk of code because they are in close contact with people with the active disease there's Bacha vaccine won't be enough to vaccinate the entire workforce by any means but you know the federal government has worked out a distribution scheme so more shipments will soon follow N.P.R.'s Richard Harris cases have been surging in the u.s. With thousands of deaths every day the u.s. Supreme Court Friday shot down president trumps a last ditch effort to block Joe Biden's election as president in a 3 sentence order the justices said they would not even consider a lawsuit filed by the state of Texas and supported by Trump that sought to invalidate the election results in 4 key states N.P.R.'s Nina Totenberg reports for the last couple of days Trump has been promoting the Texas lawsuit as the big one but just hours after the last briefs were filed in that case it fizzled with the justices saying that Texas has no legal standing to complain about the way other states have conducted counted recounted and certified their elections so barring any last minute maneuvers on Monday the Electoral College delegates will cast their votes and Biden will be formally the president elect Nina Totenberg n.p.r. News Washington President signed a short term spending bill Friday night to avert a governor. Shutdown the measure gives Congress an additional week to reach an agreement that could include the next coronavirus relief bill N.P.R.'s Winsor Johnston reports lawmakers have been debating whether to attach a bipartisan coronavirus relief measure to a spending bill if they fail to reach a deal millions of Americans will lose their extra weekly unemployment benefits at the end of the month for months Senator Bernie Sanders says Congress needs to reach a compromise before the holiday recess we cannot go back to our families while tens of millions of families also they are working toward Democrats and some Republicans say lawmakers should not return home without approving another round of direct payments to most Americans that provision is not included in the roughly $900000000000.00 bipartisan proposal Winsor Johnston n.p.r. News you're listening to n.p.r. News. Beginning Monday Endora dining in New York City restaurants will be prohibited again as Corona virus infections continue to rise New York Governor Andrew Cuomo says indoor dining is not a leading cause of the surge but rising hospitalizations in the city's high density are troubling factors the ban will be in place and definitely just weeks ago officials in the u.s. And Mexico extended travel restrictions at the border through much of December now they've been extended again until late January from member station k.j. Z.z. Kendall blast reports restrictions at the Us Mexico border 1st implemented in March to help slow the spread of the coronavirus are now set to remain in place until at least January 21st they're meant to prevent travel the u.s. State Department has defined as nonessential like tourism shopping and recreational activities travel for medical purposes work or school is considered essential u.s. Citizens and permanent residents can still return home under the restrictions because there's minimal southbound enforcement many people in the u.s. Have continued crossing the border with little difficulty while many of their neighbors in Mexico have been unable to cross for nearly 10 months for n.p.r. News I'm kinda lost the federal government put to death a man by lethal injection Friday night the 2nd federal execution this week Alfred Borgia's had been convicted of the sexual abuse and murder of his 2 year old daughter he was the 10th federal death row inmate put to death since the trumpet ministration resumed executions in July after 17 years 3 more executions are planned next month I'm nor rom n.p.r. News support for n.p.r. Comes from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting a private corporation funded by the American people and the e.c. Mc Foundation working to improve post-secondary educational outcomes for under-served students through evidence based innovation learn more at e.c. Mc Foundation dot org. The National Weather Service says moderate rainfall will spread from north to south through Saturday morning here in the Bay Area another system will bring more rain Saturday night into Sunday weekend highs will be in the low sixty's the Greater like toy area is under a winter weather advisory tonight for snowy and windy conditions in the higher elevations you're listening to on k.q.e.d. Public radio it's 9 o 6. It's the Friday news round up on one and a I'm Jan White in Washington British and Russian scientists are teaming up both country say they're looking at whether a combination of an asteroid Seneca and it's but Nik vaccine might improve protection against Cove it also a retreat further sours relations between the u.s. And China there are protests in India to catch up on and Lebanon makes a move against those blamed for recent explosion that leveled part of Beirut our guest this week our than a vase national correspondent substitute anchor for the p.b.s. News Hour on the Welcome back Jan Good to be with you also with us Nancy Youssef She covers national security for The Wall Street Journal Nancy it's great to have you great to be back and Paul Danaher Washington bureau chief for the b.b.c. Paul thanks for being here thank you so on Tuesday Britain began mass vaccinating its population seniors and front line workers were 1st in line c.n.n. Took to the streets of London to see if they could find one of the world's 1st patients to have received the Pfizer vaccine and they got lucky. He didn't know it today so you should be coming back in 21 days time according to n.h.s. Guidance 7 to 10 days after that which brings us to early January you should have developed protection immunity put in a point when I have. Anyway that was a c.n.n. Reporter speaking to a sprightly 91 year old Martin Kenyon Paul it's still in the early days but how is it going in the u.k. . It's going well I mean the thing about the u.k. Is it has a national health service so it's pretty organized in terms of being able to deliver things to the people you want to get them to in a very organized way because it is all pretty much centrally sorted out so that the process of vaccinating in the u.k. Is well established and doesn't have many hurdles to go through and the reason why the u.k. Is has been slightly ahead of everybody else is partly to do the work with the way that it analyzes the data that comes in from these firms it's partly to do with the fact that they have a kind of a rolling review site as information is gathered by the it gets sent to the government reviewers and they do it as it goes along whereas in other countries I think America is one of them they wait to the end of the process and then they look at everything in one go so the u.k. Has been fast days in Europe because it only had 3 of us the self the rest of the e.u. Has to go through 27 member states so it's partly bureaucracy it's partly the fact we have a national health service and it's partly political I think the government in the u.k. After a lot of criticism early on in the year wanted to be seen to be successful at something well the U.K.'s medicine regulator has warned against giving the Pfizer vaccine to people prone to severe allergic reactions how is that playing out in the case it's making people. Not I don't think so because but one that basically talking about the fact is if you if you've had reactions in the past you may well have a reaction again and the kind of things that people have been suffering it was 2 n.h.s. Workers that basically reacted to them and it was kind of a base not the anaphylaxis type reaction it's one that tends to involve a skin rash or all breathlessness or you know perhaps a drop in blood pressure but it's not something that's new usually fatal So what they're basically saying is if you normally have allergies then you may have an allergy to this but it's not seen as something that could impact people that are not used to having to worry about this kind of thing well I'm not Canada has also approved the Peizer vaccine prime minister just introduced as most Canadian should be. X. Needed by September 2021 but we soon by then other vaccines should also be available is that accurate that's right I mean the timeline is still very much evolving but we know now it is Pfizer vaccine produced in concert in partnership with their German partner biotech seems to be the 1st out of the gates being distributed in the u.k. Has already just yesterday here in the u.s. Kind of crossed the 1st hurdle with an f.d.a. Advisory panel meaning that it will likely be moving ahead for distribution here Secretary of Health and Human Services Alex These are just this morning with saying he estimates it could be as early as Monday or Tuesday people start getting some of those shots with this Pfizer vaccine there's another one on the horizon from Adarna and there's a 3rd one as you mentioned in your introduction from Astra Zeneca there are similar complications and similar logistical hurdles with distribution of both of those Madonna has the same kind of threshold for cold storage that the current Pfizer vaccine has and that complicates a whole host of delivery systems across the United States the Astra Zeneca one that they seem to think does not need the same level of cold storage the Pfizer vaccine has to be stored at minus 70 degrees Celsius the Astra Zeneca one does not have that same threshold but it's also not proven to be as effective so the analogy I keep hearing from experts is we are building the airplane as we're flying it there very much still figuring things out as they go but certainly a major milestone already with the Pfizer vaccine being distributed Nancy what are some of the national security issues around distribution of these vaccines both here in the u.s. And globally Well a couple things on one that sort of send that to me most is we haven't talked yet about other countries like China and Russia developing their own vaccines and what's been fascinating in the Middle East for example is that China has really use its development of a vaccine as a form of sort of diplomacy and engagement with the region and so we're seeing this as an issue of sort of an entree point in terms of China's influence and in parts of the world in terms of logistically. As you've discussed earlier you know there are challenges in terms of storage and distribution and so do we have a situation where some countries are able to distribute it better and more effectively Moreover we don't even know whether these vaccines will stop someone from spreading the virus to someone else and so far in an environment where some nations are able to distribute a vaccine more effectively than others could we have a scenario where some populations some. Economies are able to thrive and others are still stalling because they don't have the capability to distribute as other countries do well and we should mention that the United Arab Emirates became the 1st country to read a Chinese vaccine for coping $1000.00 it said it was 86 percent effective what's the global response to a vaccine developed in China one of the things we're hearing is on one hand it's promising that there's now another venue for a vaccine we don't really know much about how the u.a.e. Reached this conclusion we know that they had 31000 volunteers from 125 nations but we don't know how many were actually were given the vaccine versus a placebo and so I think what we're hearing is while there's so much hope from the u.k. That it will provide information about how to proceed that this process and the vaccine and out of China is a lot more opaque and so I think there are concerns about really understanding how it operates relative to some of the other vaccines the other thing that I would note that I think for developing countries in particular is quite promising it doesn't require the level the temperature of refrigeration that we've seen from some of the other vaccines and it's a boost to China's biomedical ambitions and potentially opens the door for a cheaper more easily distributable more distributable vaccine for developing countries that don't have the resources to store. Things at the temperatures that some of the other vaccines require or can't distribute them or get people to take of act. Every 21 days and some of these other alternatives are demanding simple lots of talk about that seems but in the u.k. What's being communicated to people about the possibility of continuing to spread the virus even if you're vaccinated is there clear communication about that. I mean what they're basically saying is this is not the end of the road we have to basically continue doing what we're doing there are still 3 tiers of lockdown in various parts of the u.k. And people are being told look you know this is we can see the light at the end of the tunnel but we're still a long way off so they're trying to encourage people not to say you know this is the silver bullet now we can all move on because we clearly aren't there yet but one of the things I think that's quite important and that Nancy just talks about this what I think we're seeing it is an acceleration of what we began to see with Huawei and that is a recognition that globalization has allowed people like countries like China to begin to invest in areas that have incredible strategic importance they began with 5 g. They've been building their own pharmaceutical industries and I think what we're going to see coming off the back of coded is a recognition by Western countries that they're going to have to shake the market a lot more than they perhaps wanted to because they now realise that the the kind of impact of things like over the impact of the impact of new technology is no longer just about dealing with consumers it's about the power you have to convey to your power around the world and I think what we're going to see coming out of this and the collaboration within Western countries is begin to see it moving to many other areas they're going to turn around and say Is this technology something that is strategically important or maybe in the future and if it is we need to make sure that it's controlled by us rather than just left to the market because they believe the market is being distorted by companies that have basically a front for the Chinese government and the Chinese Communist Party Well now what does that mean for the us in for a vaccine destroyed. And here I think one of the things that's been revealed by the pandemic and the rush to a vaccine here in the u.s. Is just how dependent the u.s. Is on the rest of the world in particular on China I mean remember all the bottlenecks early getting in p.p. And getting that to the front lines and that remains to this day front line health care workers I talked to still say they do not have what they need to be able to care for covert patients which is a somewhat remarkable thing to be saying 1011 months into the pandemic here and the other thing is you know now lying on foreign vendors and foreign companies to provide the vaccine there is enormous help out here in the u.s. About how much to buy up in advance how much to reserve a still has to go through the very stringent f.d.a. Domestic u.s. Policies and now assess before it gets rolled out but it's also being implemented on the top of the existing health care system here which as Paul mentioned is not like Britain Britain is a small country it has good infrastructure there's a national health system here in the u.s. You're dealing with 50 different health systems and that's going to enormously complicated vaccine distribution it's the Friday news round up on one a we're here with Nancy Youssef She covers national security for The Wall Street Journal also with us national correspondent substitute anchor for the p.b.s. News Hour and Paul Dan a hard Washington bureau chief for the b.b.c. I'm Gen-Y. It will be back with more in just a moment this is one day from w.a.m. You and n.p.r. . This week. Representative of. The joys of being. Which. He. Was the worst. He can. Be with us for selective. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from the Kauffman Foundation working together with communities to break down barriers and prepare all people for success in their jobs and careers as employees or entrepreneurs' more on line at Kaufmann dot org from the family foundation supporting the National Center for Learning Disabilities which works to improve the lives of the one in 5 individuals with learning and attention issues learn more at n c d dot org And from Americans for the Arts. I'm Jan white it's the Friday news round up on one day we're talking to an Avanti national correspondent and substitute anchor for the p.b.s. News Hour Also with us Nancy Youssef She covers national security for The Wall Street Journal and Paul down hard joins us Washington bureau chief for the b.b.c. Well John Kerry gave his 1st interviews this week as the climate envoy also known as the climate czar for the incoming Biden administration on n.p.r. Steve Inskeep asked Kerry whether it would be possible to work together with China to fight climate change we were a partner. As we continued with among other things during the Obama administration we've been there done that but if we don't work as a primary extraordinary effort on the fly but we're all cooked Nancy what are going to be the major obstacles when it comes to working with China . Well we've had 4 years of really heightened tensions between the United States and China over trade there have been sanctions and terror of there's been a band of students and other officials coming in militarily we've seen a much more aggressive u.s. Force posture in the Asia Pacific and now we have an envoy coming in who's been elevated to a member of the National Security Council there to talk about climate and the expectation is that he is able to engage with China on climate while all these other issues are right there just as important to the u.s. And where there's a real sense of. Tension The other thing I think that John Kerry will face in the job is that while President Trump was in office we saw the u.s. Leave things like the Paris crime Issa chord and I think from the world community there's been a sense of doubt about whether the United States is as committed to issues around climate change and can really be a leader on this issue given its retreat. Critics would argue by the Trump and ministration on these issues how heavy of a lift is it for the incoming administration to convince China that America is in this for the long haul and not just the next 4 years. Why I think it's twofold I think that that convincing goes is an effort that will go throughout the world community I think the other challenges is how do you have a kind of nuance policy towards China right where you can be aggressive towards them and their and their development in the South China Seas but at the same time work with them on climate issues because that's practically speaking I think how the policy will look like whereas up until this point it's been much more buying there were China has been largely seen as a foe on the curious talked about this being a moonshot moment in our battle to combat climate change with China still building coal fired power stations what should we reasonably expect from China on this issue I mean I think it's clear and fair to say that Secretary Kerry has his work cut out for him we should remember too it was you know it was Kerry who signed the global climate accord back in 2015 with his granddaughter on his lap to indicate how important this was going to be for future generations and then he saw it completely unraveled when President Trump came into office so one of the biggest challenges in dealing particularly with China where as Nancy so well laid out the tensions have been rising and the points at which we can work together are really hard to define right now but one of biggest challenges is that the u.s. No longer has the sort of global moral authority on this Kerry use the word humility when he talked about how he was approaching this role because there is a real issue of credibility the u.s. Say they rejoin the Paris climate accord as president like Biden has said he wants to do well what's to say u.s. Officials won't turn around and leave in a matter of years and there's also the fact that the Trump administration has been spending these final weeks really continuing to unravel a lot of the environmental regulations that have been put in place by the Obama administration and previous presidents I think the latest tracker shows they've worked or are working on over 100 rollbacks on everything from air and water pollution and drilling and animal protection so. There are a number of weakened protections that the u.s. Itself will face and a lot of those are facing legal challenges now but that is that position that the u.s. Government and that John Kerry will start from it's not a great negotiating point to begin from well let's expand on this conversation about Trump and the Biden ministrations relationship with China specifically a surprising re tweet Twitter users quickly notice that the Chinese Embassy retreated a post from President Trump on Wednesday and it made unfounded claims that Democrats had cheated in the election Paul with the Chinese Embassy up to you. That's a good question they themselves claimed afterwards that they've been hacked they didn't do the retreat that seems a little unlikely that you would if you would imagine that their software gods of pretty strong I think what this reflects is China not quite knowing how to deal or have to pivot from the trumpet ministration to the by the administration the Biden . Administration in waiting has been quite careful about what it says before it takes power which is the right thing to do obviously in this circumstance but I think the big thing for China doesn't know how this new administration is going to deal with its ambitions and I think Hong Kong is you know the place to kind of look at China has decided that the handover that took place in 1907 wasn't really a handover and they want to take control that's the 1st pressing thing that's going to come up the Americans are going to come up against how they're going to deal with China's ambitions are basically take control of Hong Kong and there will be issues over climate change and I think actually the Europeans in particular despite what's happened in the last 4 years really really want America back in because they know that if they don't have the Americans at the table on any climate conversation they can't get China or India to basically sit up and listen Merica has so much control and power over the kind of economies of those 2 countries that they need to listen to America in the way they don't need to listen to anybody else so whilst John you know John Kerry can go with humility he still carries a big stick for America and so I think actually there is a good chance of movement on climate but there are other issues regarding China that are going to be much more difficult to try and tackle Well I'm not mean that raises the question about the relationship between the u.s. And China that the countries are very closely intertwined but the current administration's top line with China has been very popular with voters it's especially in key swing states what does that mean for the bottom. In their ongoing relationship in this country I think it means both pollen and see have have hinted at that there's this administration the incoming administration is going to have to figure out how to reset that relationship to some degree because as you noted look when President from 1st came into office he was very high on the leadership of Xi Jinping and then really pivoted and took a tougher stance with the trade wars they sparred over technology even started going back and forth about visas for journalists and the pandemic has only really heightened that tension I mean we hear President the president reviews his bully pulpit over and over again to slam China to blame them for the virus and continue to use the offensive phrase he does to refer to to cope at 19 and so that has significantly complicated their relationship and it's going to be up to the incoming administration to figure out where to begin and where the priorities are that they can start to rebuild that alliance and actually make some headway on the issues that are of importance to both countries I want to move a little closer to home the Chinese have gone after a leading pro-democracy figure in Hong Kong What can you tell us about Jimmy lie. So he's a really big figure I mean he's a billionaire and he made his money in the kind of clothing industry but he pivoted into the media and it's that that. Got him into trouble with the Chinese government because he's he's newspaper Apple Daley has been a fierce critic of Beijing and I think I think what we're seeing here I mean when America when that when the you know when the u.k. Moved out of China it left what they called a One Country 2 Systems position and the feeling was that Hong Kong was such an important financial hub that the Chinese were not going to kill the golden goose What's changed is that China's got golden goose all over the place now it can survive without the financial power of Hong Kong and so it's willing to basically sacrifice sacrifice that success story to complete what it believes didn't happen back in 1907 and that is then regaining Hong Kong now the issue for that is if they carry on as they are and they do completely bring Hong Kong 100 percent and Beijing's control they will begin to look elsewhere and the concern is that they will look towards Taiwan and that will bring America into much more of a risk of conflict because well if they can to turn away from Hong Kong and say what is Chinese told you what can you do how the how the Biden ministration deals with a bit of a power grab towards Taiwan could be really really complicated and really really crucial you know globally Let's move to some other news late last week President Trump ordered almost all 700 u.s. Troops to withdraw from Somalia by January 15th it's 5 days before President elect Biden takes office Nancy why do we have troops in this part of Africa and why are they leaving well they've been there for 13 years and it's probably one of the longest and least known missions. That has been resurrected because of the rise of an al Qaeda affiliate called. And so those troops were there to train Somali forces one in particular called the nab there an elite force to help them. Develop the skill set to combat and stop the expansion of al Qaeda in Somalia the challenges than that over that period there hasn't been a large advancement and a supporter of this decision would say that perhaps the u.s. Needed to withdraw to Kenya and you bootie. To sort of force local forces to sort of take charge of the security situation there now the challenge becomes it's risky right because when you leave you potentially lose Intel and you're not on the ground there and they able to shape events the way you were. Before And so what we're seeing now is a administration that is pulling troops out throughout the world and this is part of that strategy think the question becomes can they sustain the campaign against al Shabaab from Kenya and Uganda where those where those troops are moving from Ken an air strike campaign which would be the predominant way that the u.s. Would influence operations there sufficiently help local forces to develop the skill set to combat al Shabaab Well this is mission also comes just 2 months before Somalia's presidential election how is Somalia reacting well before even the decision was made we heard from Somali leadership that said we really don't want this to happen it's a huge issue for them because this as you mentioned there's an election and there are other issues in the region that are have cause for concern we've seen rising levels of violence in Ethiopia and the the government ability to sort of sustain security will be a key issue we've heard from fighters that the removal of u.s. Forces is a win for Al Shabaab because they will turn to it and say look we made the Americans leave and so I think what would have been an ancillary issue before this decision could now become a more primary issue in the upcoming election I'm genuine You're listening to one. We're here with Nancy Youssef She covers national security for The Wall Street Journal also with us and the vase national correspondent substitute anchor for the p.b.s. News Hour and Paul down hard Washington bureau chief for the b.b.c. Paul we're not talking about thousands of troops but help us better understand why political stability in this part of the world is important. Well because what you don't want to have is another kind of base for organizations like al Qaeda and the Islamic state to build out from we know now with the kind of capacity for groups to move around the world we know with their capacity to target you know American embassies in many many countries that if you just let things fester they will fester beyond your control and you'll spend a lot more time and effort trying to put the genie back in the bottle I think what's interesting about Africa in particular is to look again at China China is heavily involved in Africa but what he's doing is spending a lot of money loaning a lot of money to countries for infrastructure projects so that China's got very much a kind of soft power influence on the leadership of Africa America is still. Primarily you know offering military support against you know Islamist insurgents etc So again you've got these kind of 2 ways of dealing with countries around the world and the question really is which is the more sustainable and which long term has the most influence and you know is putting in troops always the best way to kind of stop these kind of insurgency is it better to try and you know look at the way the economy is working give people turn to tips because often the people that end up in these sort of organizations tend to be very poor uneducated young men and they get a stipend for joining up and that's what attracts them then they become radicalized but often people join these things because they provide food they provide money and it's a way of basically feeding their families well the other side of the continent Ghana's president now Khufu Oddo won his re-election bid this week with just over 50 percent of the vote I'll just explain what's been going on in Ghana so this is an election where you basically kind of almost rerun 3 times because it's the 2 politicians that were competing Mr Mahama the other one faced each other 3 times I mean Governor is one of the most stable democracies in Africa. And so it's kind of really important to it's one of Africa's success stories and so I think you know you want to you wanted to would want to see an election that could go ahead and be peaceful and it largely was and whether result could be respected and largely has been no though Mr Muhammad was not conceding defeat because I think alleged irregularities but we're familiar with that kind of stuff so I think basically people are saying well you know they wanted gone to succeed because there are many success stories I can point to in that part of Africa and in countries like Ivory Coast except you of who what which was once a stable country have gone down that much more disabled route so people were hoping that this would be an election that people could point to and say it is possible to run this kind of thing and for it to kind of for a peaceful handover and. Looks like the same Mr Coo for others been reelected and hopefully gone I will continue in a stable way Nancy do we have any sense of the bite in administration's approach to policy towards African countries at this point well we heard from Jake Solomon when there was violence rising in the east and the Opiah and his concern calling for a diplomatic solution so we've already seen engagement but in terms of broad policy I think we're still waiting for the specifics in terms of how much and gauge meant by an administration plans to do on the African continent and and in what way we've seen some of the employments in the diplomatic corps suggesting interesting gaging in Africa because of the influence of China that Paul spoke about earlier but in terms of specificity we haven't seen it yet I wonder if I could just. Speak to something that Paul mentioned earlier which is done as a model democracy on the African continent which I think is so true and worth exploring a little bit because I think I think one thing to look at when you delve a little closer in thing on is I think the Western world is so eager to see. The the kind of democratic processes like elections in Donna and yet over time we've seen increasingly efforts by governments to undermine accountability institutions under the current administration the at the auditor general full force to take a leave a special prosecutor who was formed as an anti-corruption agency resigned and said that the government was interfering in his work and we've seen journalists targeted as well and so what I think is interesting is this election I think raises in my mind the question so often we think of democracy as elections but as we look at the African continent and some of the things that are happening there in terms of governance I think it's worth looking at too and whether we can demand more and a cold government more accountable beyond the election itself it's the Friday news round we're here with me from the Wall Street Journal I'm in the vast national correspondent for the p.b.s. News Hour in Paul Danaher Washington bureau chief for the b.b.c. Some sad news this week for fans of the Ikea catalogue for time no other book was as ubiquitous with more copies being printed then both the Qur'an and the Bible the Swedish firm announced this week it's ceasing production it leaves behind a 70 year legacy if some occasionally poor instructions. This is one. After years of development. The much beloved novel is now a daunting it's daunting but I loved it so much that I didn't want the party to happen without the director. And how she wrangled 1300 page. And the latest on the corona virus vaccine and the news. Weekend Edition there is from 5 am to 10 am tomorrow what happens when your chosen pandemic everyone in the sort of chain can have one person outside their household that there are a lot isn't quite getting. Proud of how. It was for me but it was it just came over me like a wave how pandemic lockdowns are testing friendships next time it's been a minute. It's been a minute comes on tomorrow morning at 10. This is. You know you'll get the latest news on this. Panel. For the holiday season. Is that 7. Pre-holiday doing nothing joining us for this week's news quiz Wait Wait Don't Tell me from n.p.r. . Radio the time now is 940 support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from the National Endowment for the Arts the federal agency that supports the arts and creativity in communities across the nation more information is available at art stop gov from Eric and Wendy Schmidt through the Schmidt Family Foundation working together to create a just world where all people have access to renewable energy clean air and water and healthy food on the web at the Schmidt dot org And from the listeners who support this n.p.r. Station. Let's get back to the Friday news round up a reminder we're talking to the VOs national correspondent and substitute anchor for the p.b.s. News Hour Also with us Nancy Youssef She covers national security for The Wall Street Journal and Paul Danaher Washington bureau chief for the b.b.c. The farmers in India are escalating their protest against new agricultural laws after tens of thousands blocked roads in the capital New Delhi over the past 2 weeks farmers across the country began a nationwide strike on Tuesday exactly what are the farmers protesting Jennifer anyone who's watching some of the pictures coming out of India it is really a sight to behold so the farmers are basically protesting proposed new legislation from the Modi government that the government argues would help them they say it gets rid of red tape it gives farmers better access and direct access to bigger markets helps themselves directly to corporations and encourages private investment which is really part of the privatization push the government's been going through since the ninety's but the farmers have basically said no this takes away the very little government support that we had so far and it leaves us open to be exploited by any big agribusiness and corporations they say without those protections without the established guaranteed minimum prices they're basically worried they're going to be swallowed up by the big guys and the farmers are a force to be reckoned with I mean one of the things to note in India's economy is we often look to the industrial sector or the tech sector and the growth there but agriculture is still an enormous source of livelihood for most Indians if we're not talking about big industrial farms they're mostly small and local farms and they estimate something like half of the sub continents workforce so they have taken to the streets they have produced what are quite possibly the largest protests in human history there have been days when tens of millions of people have participated in general strikes and we've seen strikes and solidarity in other countries as well so they've basically forced the government to have to meet with them. The government has to slice off part of the city where they can continue to protest there are now camps being set up there's no signs that they are going anywhere and they are demanding a full retraction of the laws that's a very tough point to start from for the government well and I think we understand what happens when for instance teachers' strike kids don't go to school but what does it mean when farmers strike. I mean the country doesn't get the food that it needs it is as I mentioned an enormous part of not just a livelihood in terms of sustaining a population that has already been forced to contend with the effects of climate change and to weather the market ups and downs don't forget India is now facing a steep recession like much of the world but they've also no had to wear the burden of the pandemic and that is just being in a declining quality of life for them hunger is spreading that there is a real it's a real sort of catastrophe that they're on the brink of there and I think the scale of the protests show just how much of the economy just how much of the workforce is dependent on this one sector that has not been invested into the same degree in India that other sectors like tech and industry and so on have been invested in Paul in the government's response to these demands both the mode of government has been quite successful in winning away people like farmers from the old Congress party which was basically you know for many many years the dominant party so it needs these people and particularly people who are protesting now from the Punjab and Haryana the neighboring states around Delhi and they're very influential politically so it's a difficult tightrope for them to walk the problem that they face is that many farmers in India are really living on the edge of subsistence level basically and that's why they even though they may be better off they don't want to take the risk because they know that if it fails it will leave them completely destitute and farming is an industry where you know of the last 20 years hundreds or thousands of farmers in India have committed suicide because they've been in such desperate situation so how the government deals with this I mean the motive government is incredibly powerful politically in India at the moment the only opposition it has is basically broken away or faction of fractured so it will keep going as much as it possibly can with these reforms the question is do they feel long term that it would damage them and therefore they will have to. Back but so far this government has managed to pretty much bulldoze his way through everything that he's tried to do because the opposition in Detroit to it is so very weak but I'm not we're talking about a country so good supply here so does this put the farmers in a slightly better negotiating position Well you know as as Paul mentioned the government so far in the last 6 years in power has managed to barrel through so if history is a guide they'll find a way to do it again at the same time this is the 1st time that they've had to face any kind of major protest on their app and other kinds of protests in the past where they didn't just crack down the sheer scale of this protest and the nature of this protest are different in a number of ways there's also been international sympathy pouring in I mean some of the videos showing Indian police using tear gas and water cannons on the protesters that's really helped to elicit some sympathy around the world and as I mentioned also lead to some of those strikes and marches and solidarity in other countries that's kept the Indian police from using some of the more brutal tactics that they've used in the past or at least continuing to use them so there's a sense that this might be different the fact that nobody has even had to meet with them the fact that part of the city has been handed over to them as they continue to use your space as your protest zone says something but you know history is not on their side the Modi government is not known for doing anything other than what it has planned to do when it sets out its mind to something well let's turn to some other news for officials have been charged in connection with a devastating explosion in Port It killed hundreds and injured thousands Lebanon's outgoing prime minister has and 3 former ministers were charged with negligence as part of an investigation into the explosion Nancy what do we know about the charges Well what's interesting is what led to the charges because remember that one of the things that has hampered Lebannon governance is just rampant corruption and so under the current system if it's there's supposed to be a sort of special parliamentary court set up in parliament to invest. To get top officials and so the judge that eventually brought these charges brought his concerns to that court and to the asking for that court and brought it to the parliament and the speaker said I don't think this warrants charges and the judge went ahead and charge them anyway and so what we've seen is the prime minister say he's not going to comply because it should have gone through a court and a parliament that appears to be protecting fellow high ranking officials and so it'll be interesting to see whether the court process is allowed to proceed and whether there is any sense of real accountability for a devastating devastating explosion in which a huge swath of Beirut was destroyed 200 people were killed and it really I have a lot of Lebanese friends and it really kind of broke the spirit of the country that was already battling a financial crisis and covert and so. What we'll see if there's actual real charges because at stake here is whether the government is finally willing to hold its highest level officials accountable particularly in this case not only that was devastating but there's. 7 years' worth of written correspondence showing that government officials knew and didn't act adequately to prevent this how has Lebanon Beirut its capital city recovered over the past 4 months I'm remembering images. The explosion it was just devastating. More slowly I mean I think when something like that happens in Lebanon. Is a country and Beirut is a city that's gone through an awful lot of conflict over the years so it is very very resilient but normally that conflict has been you know forces from outside whether it be the Israelis whether it be Hezbollah whether it be Iran whether it be Syria this was incompetence on a massive scale by people in the country seen as being part of the country and the fact that people knew that this was sitting there many was literally a time bomb waiting to go off and nothing happened just makes people feel that you know even the people even his own people don't care enough about the people of Lebanon to just stop something simple as a this happening and so I can as you said you know it is incredibly demoralizing when you've seen everybody else interfere in your country and just leave it at times in complete chaos but when you see your own countrymen and women doing something like this it just it does break people Spirit what kind of aid have we seen come into the country. So initially we saw a French president manual Micron visit and we saw aid coming in through various countries and organizations that overall I don't think gets to the level that is they needed in Lebanon what we've really seen more than anything is people struggling in Lebanon I've talked to friends who people are going to trash cans looking for food people are selling their gold people are. Getting rid of. People who work for their families and really horrific ways leaving housekeepers and nannies and from other embassies to go back and so. There has been help but not to the degree that one would expect and when you talk to the Lebanese the cold weather is now coming into Beirut and people talk about trying to stay warm because they. I'm able to afford to put up the glass back at their homes that were destroyed by by the explosion and so it really has been devastating and I think when you think about help I don't know that people can sense the scale of what's needed because I think we thought of Lebanon in Beirut particularly as one of the wealthier parts of the Middle East at and again on the cusp of on the heels of a financial crisis and the covert crisis it really was kind of more than the economy could bear. Paul what would be required for recovery. An awful lot of money but the problem that Lebanon has always had is that that money has really come without some sort of strings attached often very political and so that's the worry for people is that yes you know I will come in no doubt but what will be the consequences for the world with that aid with that money well they have become political influence in a country that has been yanked backwards and forwards by outside influences for so many years so you know Lebanon needs help but it needs help for the right reasons and not for the wrong reasons and I think the people of Beirut in particular will be fearful that they'll be forced to take money from people that will then expect something in return for the down the line and that'll just further destabilize the country as it tries to get itself to some kind of normalcy I'm Gen white You're listening to want to. We're talking to Paul Danner harm Washington bureau chief for the b.b.c. Nancy Youssef who covers national security for The Wall Street Journal and on the divide is national correspondent in steps if you'd anchor for the p.b.s. News Hour where the British prime minister says there is now a quote strong possibility that the u.k. Will fail to strike a trade deal with the e.u. Time runs out at the end of the month and 3 hour dinner with the president on Wednesday failed to bring the 2 sides closer together after which came this morning and we'll ask Paul the decode exactly what's being said in a minute we've got to keep going and will go the extra mile and I will go to Brussels I'll go to Paris go to a way to try to get this home and get a deal but looking at where we are I do think it's vital that everybody gets ready for that Australian option Ok Paul what what is he talking about what is the Australian option this trade action is a phrase that the British government's been using from earlier this year because it sounds a lot nicer than a no deal Bracks because essentially what they're aiming towards is a very very loose arrangement with the e.u. Now the sticking points in all of this they've done about 90 percent of it their arguments are over fishing rights which whilst and not that important in terms of the economy of the u.k. They are politically very important because it's kind of the the whole the whole idea behind it was about solvency so therefore are you going to give up your sovereign waters to somebody else so efficient become emotionally important in these discussions and the other thing the British are claiming is that the e.u. Wants to be out will to automatically penalize the u.k. If laws change in the e.u. And the u.k. Doesn't immediately change laws to accommodate them when it comes to kind of financial trading competitiveness and there's a lot of brinkmanship going on there's a lot of. Nuance in all of this I mean the. But that he was talking about which he had on Wednesday with the European Commission president when the lion was heavily a fish dinner included scallops and turbot and fish that are very important to the British in terms of selling to the European Union so even dinner. Comes heavily loaded not just with fish but with kind of politics so it gives you a kind of sense of the fact that this is just going around and around in circles because there's a lot more motions than politics involved in reaching this decision well how this voting place more than 4 years ago and Boris Johnson at one point was talking about and I've been ready deal what went wrong. Well I think part of the problem was the fact that for those 4 years the the debate in the u.k. Was still whether or not the e.u. Leaving the e.u. Breaks it would be reversed or not so all the battles were very binary they were in a round even though the referendum decided in 2016 that it would be out so a lot of the conversations that should have taken place in the u.k. About what kind of BRICs it would happen didn't really happen they just descended into acrimony so we've got to the end of it without a kind of serious conversation taking place in the u.k. About what Bracks it should mean and what kind of a relationship that should be and so we've ended up with all this stuff taking place at the end and it's become so political in the u.k. . That it's very difficult for any government to be seen to be giving in because you know we began with a process that was going to still involve the u.k. Being in the in the single market Margaret Thatcher was the one that brought us into it. You know we could be completely out on the World Trade Organizations regulation so because of the politics in the process of getting to where we are today it's made being flexible a lot harder politically for the present Government Well I don't know what does this mean for Boris Johnson and his relationship with other world leaders when President elect Biden wants to speak to the most powerful voice in the u.k. Next year who does he call. Well I mean he is still the prime minister and so I think that there is definitely that but I do think the and also I just want to thank Paul for not using any His and say let's I thought it was a missed opportunity but you know you look at you know the language coming out of that marathon dinner and you see that Johnson's not moving right the basically said we had a frank discussion Vanderlei and said it was a lively and interesting discussion of the 2 sides are so far apart and they're really stuck where they are I mean no one's moving and the implications by the. Hey you know me as Paul mentioned there's fisheries implication it's also the governance and penalties and all that you know that the u.k. Defaults on its w t o 4 terms you're talking about tariffs for a British carmaker if you're talking about changes at the border the e.u. Starts imposing border checks and the implications are enormous but also say this Sunday deadline that they've set itself imposed right and they have set deadlines and broken them before so talks could still continue to the end of the year and it's the most 2020 thing ever that we just have no idea what's going to happen next but we'll have to leave it there that time in the vase national correspondent substitute anchor for the p.b.s. News Hour Nancy Youssef covers national security for The Wall Street Journal and Paul Dann a Hari is the Washington bureau chief for the b.b.c. Thanks to you all this program comes to you from w.a.m. You part of American University in Washington distributed by n.p.r. I'm Gen White thanks for listening have a great weekend let's talk again on Monday this is one. I. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from the William t. Grant Foundation working to harness the power of research to make a difference in the lives of children teens and young adults for more than 80 years learn more at w.t. Grant f d n dot org. From the Walton Family Foundation working to solve social and environmental problems to improve lives today and benefit future generations more information at Walton Family Foundation dot org And from the listeners who support this n.p.r. Station. The experts have spoken and they've recommended the f.d.a. Authorize the emergency use of the Pfizer Kobe 1000 vaccine it paves the way for the biggest vaccination effort in this nation's history and with deaths surging every minute matters your questions on the push to put the pandemic in the rearview mirror next time on one day. Coming up next on the forum rebroadcast we'll hear listeners sharing their fantasies about what life will look like after this pandemic support for k.q.e.d. Comes from Explain it explain any x. 5 deliver speed coverage and control for all devices throughout the home customers also receive a layer of protection of their home network with security My name is Michelle head against the announcers and technical staff of k.q.e.d. Radio are affiliated with the National Association of broadcast employees and technicians c w a local 51. You're listening to 88.5 k.q.e.d. San Francisco and 89.3 North Highlands Sacramento for the latest information and updates about the coronavirus go to k.q.e.d. Dot org It's 10 o'clock. Radio in San Francisco. When the pandemic is in the rear window and we can go out safely. Strangers one of the 1st things. We want to. Fantasy is. Simply dropping your. Host of the podcast death sex and money joins me. In comments. After this news. Live from n.p.r. News I'm Tom The Food and Drug Administration Friday authorized the emergency use of the covert 1000 vaccine develop her and buy intact the 1st to be cleared for widespread distribution in the u.s. President Trump released a video Friday night saying the 1st shipments of the vaccine are already on their way through a partnership with Fed Ex and u.p.s. We have already begun shipping the vaccine to every state and zipcode in the country the 1st vaccine will be administered in less than 24 hours the governors decide where the vaccines will go in their say and who will get them 1st he said the vaccine will be free to all patients the Los Angeles County Health Department has decided not to use the Pfizer vaccine for its thousands of nursing home residents and staff and as Jackie 40 a with members station k.p.c. See reports the department is also rejecting a federal plan to use a pharmacy chains to give the shots and will instead train nursing home staff l.a. County health officials are opting to use the Madeira vaccine which doesn't require deep freeze storage Ellie's interested in speed if the modern a vaccine is authorized by the f.d.a. Likely next week it will be sent directly to the county's 385 nursing homes officials expect to get their 1st doses around December 21st county public health director Barbara for Rare said that's a full week sooner than the pharmacy run program is expected to begin she said if nursing homes don't have enough staff there will be help. Them go out and make sure that you know in a in a matter of days were vaccinated everybody more than 2100 residents and staff of Ellie's nursing homes have died of the virus for n.p.r. News I'm Jackie 40 a in Los Angeles the Supreme Court Friday rejected a lawsuit to overturn the election results in 4 states and give those electoral votes to President Trump Texas had sued Georgia. Stricken Pennsylvania and Wisconsin challenging the election laws in those states the Supreme Court held a Texas doesn't have a legal right to sue the electoral college is to meet Monday to formally elect Joe Biden is the next president Texas based Exxon Mobil's says it plans to layoff more than 700 workers in Houston Kyra Buckley from Houston Public Media reports the 722 Houston area layoffs are just part of the 1900 u.s. Job cuts expected at the start of the pandemic as oil was dipping below breakeven prices Exxon said it hoped to avoid job cuts even as companies like Chevron shut at least 10 percent of its workers but the oil giant reversed course after 3 straight quarters of losses totaling more than a $1000000000.00 The consulting firm Deloitte estimates the u.s. Has lost more than $100000.00 oil and gas jobs just this year for n.p.r. News I'm Kyra Buckley in Houston this is n.p.r. . There's been a rare development at the u.s. Military court in Guantanamo Bay Cuba a prisoner who's been held there for more than 18 years without being criminally charged has been cleared for release N.P.R.'s Sasha Pfeiffer reports the prisoner is a year many man in his mid forty's who was accused of being an al Qaeda operative but Guantanamo is periodic review board which functions like a parole board now says he is no longer a significant threat to the United States known variously as Saeed's Elisa even a sheer and honey silly receipt of Villa He's only the 2nd Guantanamo prisoner to be cleared for release during Trump's presidency and the 1st under Trump to be cleared through this parole like process it's unclear when he may be released and where he would go the State Department must 1st negotiate his transfer to another country with quote robust security assurances Sasha Pfeiffer n.p.r. News the Trump administration executed another federal prisoner Friday the 2nd this weekend the 10th since the resumption of federal executions in July after 17 years Alford Borgia's was put to death by lethal injection at a federal prison in Terre Haute Indiana had been convicted of a sexual abuse and brutal murder of his 2 year old daughter in 20023 more federal executions are planned in January Iran executed a dissident journalist who had been convicted of inciting violence during anti-government protests in 2017 the state run news agency reported Ruhollah Sam was hanged Saturday morning he'd been captured last year after years in exile I'm sure rom n.p.r. News support for n.p.r. Comes from the Charles Stuart maad foundation supporting efforts to promote a just equitable and sustainable society in its hometown of Flint Michigan and communities around the world more admire dot org and the listeners who support this n.p.r. Station. It's. Coming from the. This is far I mean it can the prospect of a vaccine being approved soon is giving some people permission to imagine what they'll do post pandemic that's what it did for k.q.e.d. Arts associate editor nasty avoid who tweeted out earlier this week the question what's your post vaccines fantasy for not it includes visiting family in Russia a big sweaty dance party movie nights with friends an indoor restaurant date with her boyfriend others who responded to his tweet wrote an i.r.l. Book club meeting karaoke hugging friends hugging everyone not having anxiety at the grocery store and my favorite having kids hang out of my classroom at lunch to tell me the hot guys not used to eat and the replies inspired today's show so listeners we're opening up the phones taking your live comments tell us what is your post and emic fantasy you can call us at 866-733-6786 again 866-733-6786 You can also get in touch on Twitter or Facebook or at k.q.e.d. Form or e-mail your questions to forum at k.q.e.d. Dot org And already just before the show we got a couple of tweets Caleb wrote theatre live music writing transit touching people dragging my aging body to d.n.a. Lounge for a booty mash up dance party with dozens of strangers and singing with the crowd tweets giving my great grandma a big hug and making cookies with her Joining me now is Anna Sale of creator and host of the award winning podcast death sex and money where she interviews people I mean she really talks to people and it's fires them to share the Divis parts of themselves in fact her new book coming out in May is titled Let's talk about hard things and a sale Welcome thank you I'm so glad to be here well it's great to have you on forum and you have been having just so many conversations with people about what they're going. Through during the pandemic so it's probably not a huge surprise that a lot of people are saying that their post pandemic fantasy really involves being around another person touching hugging dancing. Yeah a lack of caution like just dancing counters you know all of those things I've been thinking about this a lot because our episode that we just put out this week it's about a baby area couple one lives on one side of the bay the other lives on the other side they haven't seen each other in person since they went to high school prom together in 1969 but they've gotten back in touch during pandemic and have fallen in love but have not seen each other in person wow and talk about wanting to get a fantasy of post because. They do they want to get together and they want to do it with with no cost and they want when they do it they don't have to wear masks so they're waiting Yeah I mean that that story was really amazing too because they are not they're refusing to use zoom right or any other medium where they would actually see each other on a screen yeah they've they've traded old trade some photographs from from from later years from when they weren't teenagers but but they haven't they haven't done the video chat thing they they're doing phone calls. And and that's it wow you really gotten to know each other in a deep way that I think would not have been the same if we were not in pandemic are you planning to follow up potentially in here with a matter of course. I also want to know if they just lose patience with the fact I know we're not going to wait we're not going away we're just going to go to the park. Well the other show that you did that I thought was really lovely was just about how people are dealing with the lack of physical touch and I'm curious sort of what what you heard in that that sort of made you think about just how important even everyday interactions are yeah this was a series we did with the pod cast 11 radio and it. It was a question that we asked our listeners which was you know just like what are you noticing about the lack of physical touch and I was sort of in to slip a thing that we were going to hear from a lot of people who you know maybe aren't in relationship and we're talking about missing dating and missing you know being together with someone intimately that sort of thing but we we heard some of that and then also heard some things that I hadn't thought of like a single mom in Chicago I talked to she has an infant she's been on maternity leave before shutdown and she talked about how you know she's getting tons of touch but it's the kind of touch the infant gives which is kind of a taking touch it's not really a comforting each and she just desperately mess the touch of a grown up like someone hugging her back and saying Let me take care of you so I talk to her about you know the the kind of awkward difficult conversations she had with family members extended family members who live nearby about the terms in which they feel comfortable being together. We've already got calls lots of comments coming in let me go to John in Palo Alto Hi John. Very good morning Hi John what's your post pandemic fantasy Well I'm anxious to resume my annual bicycle across the u.s. Trips Wow and I'm hoping that by June which is when I really go I can do that so you bike across the u.s. Every year yes ma'am Wow That's how long does that take. It's about a month. That's amazing I'm sorry to 2 months. That we did the Amazing. Oh Wow Well John John things I mean traveling is definitely something that is part of a lot of people's posts pandemic desires I mean Chris tweets I was planning a trip to Athens for this year so being able to take that trip is probably my biggest post pandemic fantasy and it makes a lot of sense and I mean and in many ways our world shrank so much right just our movements became so much more contained Yeah you know what I was just fantasizing about was I was trying to sing out about fantasize about being on a work trip and being in an airport like restaurant and chatting with a stranger at the bar I mean that is how much trouble I'm. Going about being in an airport you know for a work trip I go right the things that you're like Ok I got I got to go to his apartment yeah it is it's it's the Monday mean right I mean. Just the real When once it's gone I mean just the realization of how much how wonderful it actually really is to look at the kinds of things that we get to do with brand new eyes. Yeah absolutely I mean and it's also been fun for me to think about the various trips I want to take like who I want to travel with you know there's I would like to do it trip with my family my 2 little kids and my husband but oh my gosh I also would love to do like a trip with another mom where we leave our families. To take care of anyone and have babies. That's another fantasy Yeah it's true I mean for a lot of people this is been a lot of togetherness and so I can imagine that there are some so hook trips in people's fantasies though that said there are a lot of people who are really talking about getting together with family that they haven't seen that are significantly older and so for example next week's having a celebratory get together with my 93 year old mother 5 siblings and all the grandchildren just to revel in being together again this other listener tweets pulling myself together vanity wise and being on a beach somewhere with my son his girlfriend and a friend there is more but that's the very 1st thing I thought so we're glad that this listener was able to immediately imagine and tell us the 1st thing that came to their minds but it just reminded me how much extended family people are really missing Yeah I mean and that's that's a huge thing that's like like I have I've actually thought about I live far from my parents I live far from any of my sisters and we've started doing a family zoom call and and it is one of those things that I think about like oh I hope that we even when we gather again and be together I do hope we keep up this kind of electronic more regular communication that wasn't a part of our life creepy endemic because I like the way that this the shrinking in my life I have felt very far from from people that I love very much but I've also felt like. Kind of like weirdly you know more in touch on a Monday in basis kind of like texting my mom for more recipes because I'm doing more cooking that kind of thing so I think that is sort of an interesting shift and how I think about what I'm missing about family and also how I feel some ways I feel closer to them now yeah that's one of the things that came up when we were having that discussion about the show was we were also sort of naturally came to this question of well there are things that I've actually gained during this pandemic as hard as it has been there are some pieces of this that I would like to hold on to even after the world opens up again and it's actually a question that I would like to put out to our listeners to respond to as well besides what they're imagining post pandemic like is there anything that you think you might actually miss from this time something. Something that you've gained that you didn't expect to gain even among the hardship even give us a call again 86673367868667336786 you can tell us on Twitter or Facebook or kicked we do form e-mail your comments to form a k.q.e.d. Dot org Let me go to Christie in quite a midair hi Christi but how a good morning so what would you like to share why than anything more than travel I would love to have my kids in the house. When I have a building with a kid. Or even. How many kids do you have and I have king to 17 year old twins 17 year old their junior this year and I just I making out time with their friends and getting to know them. Yes just the energy that just naturally comes up when you actually have like bodies together. And you get Joel and you know here in. There me. Well thanks for sharing that Christy and kill the tweets I hope we can keep an awareness of how vulnerable we all are and how much we need to take care of each other definitely if there's anything that this pandemic has done has definitely shown us just how vulnerable we are and we will get to more of your comments and calls after the break I'm talking with Anna Sale of death sex and money I mean a Kim You're listening to form. We're listening to the rebroadcast of this morning's forum so the producers are not here to take your phone calls tonight the program will continue after a look at Bay Area traffic Michael Bennet found some some trouble on the Bay Bridge a Michael. Michaud Yes this one the lower deck ready to trade your island where you have a 2 car crash that's blocking the center lane bridge crews trying to get there moved quickly want to one of the to radio the interchange in San Francisco we had a car spin out it's now facing the wrong way in the right lane and in Oakland southbound 80 just past the Stadio 2 car crash on the shoulder I'm Michael Bennett for k.q.e.d. Thank you Michael traffic or support for k.q.e.d. Comes from European sleep works offering mattresses and bedding made from natural materials and free of harmful. And Michel it's cotton latex and wool components are fully certified by one of the world's leading ecological testing facilities details on line at sleep Works dot com The rain will continue until tomorrow morning in the Bay Area and then the weekend will be cloudy cool with scattered showers. Welcome back to foreign my Mina Kim and a sale of the bike as death sex and money is here with me to hear your post pandemic fantasy What are you a badging you'll do when the pandemic is in the rear window and we can safely be within say 6 feet of friends and family members or if you'd like tell us if there's anything you might actually miss from this time something that is hard as the pandemic has been that you feel like you gain from it the number to call 866-733-6786 again 866-733-6786 You can also get in touch on Twitter or Facebook or at k.q.e.d. Farm or e-mail your questions to form k.q.e.d. Dot org And just before the break you know we I read that tweet from a listener about just remembering how vulnerable we are and there was this reply to last year's tweet earlier in the week where the person wrote that the top of their list was dying people being able to have as many loved ones around them as they want and care team that's not overwhelmed and it's just such such an important reminder of just how how intense this time has been how much we've lost but also just the beauty of being able to be around others in those final moments and not being able to have that it reminded me a little bit also of the episode that you had on your podcast about how the pandemic was making people think about each ings. Getting older their mortality Yeah I mean that's something that's been interesting hearing from listeners who are older we actually asked people who are 60 and older and aren't listening audience to tell us how this time has made them think about their age in a different way and one thing we heard sort of overwhelmingly was. You know that that a year ago they were being told that 65 was the new 45 and now they're being told that they're you know a vulnerable population that needs to stay home and that that that sort of shock of having to absorb the existential reality of aging alongside everything else. And then you know and I do think that awareness of. Death is is something we also heard not just from or from our older listeners but from from everybody like I think that because we have not been able to gather in the ways that. We are used to when we do someone we love I don't know if you've been on a zoo memorial service but I have and it's certainly not satisfying it's doing what it do what it can but it's not satisfying and it's a hard thing to press and to and just have it be over but that awareness of death and that kind of like urge to show up for one another in the face of death I would be interested to see how that. You know just how that looks in our post pandemic lives because we've seen how hard it is to not be able to show up like if if we are a little braver stepping towards. Those people in our life who are who are ailing or who are you know close to death and they will be able to talk about that the little bit more coherently. Well Charlie writes How do you have this conversation without being classes to ask you to position this conversation within our class and income diverse community without assumptions are people just waiting to get the chance to be able to work or to be able to afford their rent What about people who will lose housing after the pandemic ends because the moratorium against eviction a foreclosure will be ended what about folks will never live again or never have health again and I'm thinking about things we want to keep the same washing hands keeping life simpler left. Going out it's after a I'm lucky enough to be planning a trip in my mind to New England Charlie's point is such an important point I mean one of the things to that that we've been talking about on forum that will be talking about more is just the incredible inequality that this pandemic has really laid bare and just the. Incredible sense of gratitude for what we do have and for the hope for what we can have once this ends and that you know we have all reached some new level of understanding where we won't allow anyone to fall off an economic cliff Yeah I think that comment is really important and it's something that I like just in our lives right now during the pandemic post and that I think. I have thought a lot about the ways that. You know the hurt is is not equally distributed and it compounds and so you know whether it's people in our lives or people we interact with through commerce like you are seeing the ways that some people are have been able to inflate themselves quite well from from the devastating impacts on our economy and some are just being hit from all corners so the ways in which we talk about that the ways in which we talk about our obligations to one another the ways we talk about our government's role in providing a safety net that is functional and also easy to navigate I think we've seen some real gaping holes there in these past several months so yes I think that is something really important point about imagining up the mix Sure yeah well and know all treats my post kind of fantasy is going to a bar with live music what I want to keep from living through the pandemic is equanimity. Carlin Callisto the joining us. Good morning thank you for taking my call to go ahead and. I love your show and I love this conversation and I can relate to pretty much everything that's been shared a couple of specific things just jumped the line connecting with or you're talking about awareness of March ality and so forth and my my parents are in their upper eighty's they live in Quelch Ontario Canada and my wife and I recently retired you know the 1st thing that we would love to do is go and visit my parents and you know was there still I'm again very active and alert and everything but you know. That's not going to be forever and. Then they moved recently from their you know only into a new place which was a huge seismic event in their lives and we just had to stand on the sidelines so that's really hard the other thing is just I mean every Friday for years I pick out my granddaughters at their school in Windsor and then we do fun adventures and with school closed in with their mom working at home and ways coded restrictions you know I can't do any of that there is it's really hard really sad and I can't wait for things and. The way the car Thanks for sharing that let me go to. Santa Barbara next. Hi How are you today well how are you man. Thank you you know I wanted to kind of reflect back on your comment about the aging issue because I'm 67 and I'm a stage 4 lymphoma survivor and I had to have been thinking for a number of years and 7 years ago I went to u.c.l.a. To look at the graduate school program an empty public health and I sort of just put that on the back burner and thought about it and then as you know the lockdowns came about it why not apply it and see what happens and I got insulted so now I'm in this executive master's program at u.c.l.a. And it's silly phenomenal I have I feel more life and more excitement about what's ahead of me I'm finding that the younger students probably average age is late thirty's. How interested they are to have someone in their class who has maybe some perspective and experience Yeah I don't it just makes me feel really it makes me feel very hopeful I hope that other people that are in my age group that are out there listening. You know that there's really so much available to us and we're not done yet we have a lot to offer people really really do and just our stories they're interested in how we approach things and how we dealt with sayings and you know when the pill came out did we have sex you know I mean just funny things but important thing. We think you know important things you know words and yet on terror I want you really well I got straight A's My 1st quarter but I'm not there to compete with anybody and there to learn and if I mentor someone along the way fabulous and I do hope that at some point I can be a spokesperson for public health because we are a community and we need to work together to get through this and we will yes and really quick I just wanted to to ask you how has it been to also just be able to interact with a whole bunch of different people you know through the class. It's been brilliant I actually would never have thought I'd want to do on distance learning or you know long distance learning I love going to school and saying Because I can see my 30 classmates I can see everybody facial expressions and body language you can see the Ira was you can see the smiles you can see that oh my God we're doing biostatistics this is so boring you can see the exhaustion in that you know there's a primary care physician in Seoul that has who works with the Native American population in the underprivileged and he is so exhausted he hasn't had a day off but he's showing up for you know public health education because he thinks he will be able to make a mark in the world that he operates and and if you have only wonderful it's just wonderful I don't really necessarily want to drive to u.c.l.a. Next year when we can go to well being Thanks for sharing that and I mean part of the reason that I asked an about that and I was because you know one of the things I realized is that. Is that working from home. You know and I was mentioning earlier that my role has shrunk a little bad I think it's really made me appreciate the kind of job I have where I get to interact with our listeners and interact with guests and I'm sure they think they're all there you know to tell me about the findings or their latest report or in the state politics but really they're like filling also a giant need that I have for conversation and connection and broadening my world you know absolutely I mean I I found that I thought a lot about that this summer I was staying with my in-laws for help with childcare in Wyoming and I was hosting our podcast and I was doing interviews about all of the protests about racial justice and what people were thinking about and their relationship to America and and here I was in a very small town in Wyoming and felt very far away from the center of of where these protests were happening in the streets and in a way that was felt very hard as a journalist and I felt really grateful to be able to have just you know that connection even though it was an impersonal over the line to hear about what people were thinking and feeling and joining together. In pursuit of. In it helped me you know it was satisfying to be able to do that work and also you know for me a huge part of my mental health is is feeling connected not just to people in my immediate family but I am an extrovert and I need that you know I'm hearing me to call me when you know when you're not fair I just need that will fix you to Talk of them a little bit well Jeffrey teach my post pandemic dream is returning to rehearsal of the Golden Gate Men's Chorus I have so miss singing with my brothers similarly Robin writes I love the sound of an audience singing their favorite song along with the performer always brings. Tears of joy even now telling you about this I'm a sound engineer and long to hear these live performances soon please. And let me go to Jenny in San Francisco Hi Ginny Hi Hi Thanks for taking my call. Along the same lines of what you were just talking about I missed playing trumpet with the San Francisco lesbian gay freedom band. We had our last in person rehearsal on March Kim and since then we've been doing everything virtually And it's really difficult if not. You know Jerry write something similar as a musician in San Francisco what I really long for is playing concerts for live audiences it's been a steep learning curve pivoting to online formats with some truly inspired and amazing results but there is nothing like the connection one feels that direct connection to in person audiences. Well Jenny thanks for that and Jerry thanks for that too it is amazing isn't it that singing was like one of the most hazardous thing in an room in an indoor space was like one of the most hazardous things that you could do during this pandemic when at the same time it's just so healing and therapy. And yeah I mean absolutely I hearing from musicians and singers like I I want to hear you I want to be in a room with you and I ache for that you have not been able to do what you love that's a that's a real gaping hole right now to play music together carry in San Francisco what do you want to say. You know I'm going to call it what we're going to miss and what I found in this room is I have like a new appreciation for where I live actually my neighbors because probably just this like we've all been home right so part of this like I see my neighbor walking the dog outside and you just feel like cute dog and keep going you know but now it's a little slower so we might stand 10 feet away and have a small talk and I mean we will have like a bartering thing going on right now I was actually doing sourdough before the pandemic but now I don't take my bread into work so I started giving it to my neighbors and they started giving me tomato soup or you know homemade hummus or somebody was making these really great fabric mats you know and it's like we have what it's like a different connection to the neighborhood where we're not quite as busy so stuff kind of what I think I'm going to miss is when we get back to the regular swing of things. Kerry thinks I mean you are right something like I appreciate being able to slow down rethink our frenetic lives not have to commute for hours a day and have more time to spend with armies families I have loved seeing more people out walking families going to the peace together and getting to know my neighbors more. So I think. As with you and then all those of its rights I'll continue my daily walks around San Francisco and I will continue to look up and notice how beautiful the homes are in the neighborhoods around the city I mean yes just appreciating where you live and all the beauty that surrounds you because you look harder for it I think when when your world is smaller and I was talking with producer Judy Campbell who produced this segment and she was just talking about how she was surprised at how much she likes being home I mean she's a huge extrovert She's very social right Richie realize that there is something really lovely in just being in her home in her neighbor and yeah I mean I have gotten into like watering my plants that's a ritual you know it's really fun to like really be able to closely monitor how your plants are there previously I was a I was quite a plant so I feel quite proud that they are thriving yeah just that that being home and I definitely also feel that in my neighborhood and I hope I hope that something that's going to hang on even after we get a little bit more frenetic I hope that these these ties that we're working on and building right now hang around here after the vaccine is is working and the community I have heard similar things from people who work every day because regardless like you come home to the same place like you're not you're not able to really have much more of an expanded interaction outside of work and home you know so your home really is that only other spot Paul writes which I think is really an interesting point I'm an e.r. Nurse and talk about this regularly with my colleagues we all look forward to not feeling anger toward a public that doesn't take this seriously and risks public safety by not wearing masks gathering for parties and other behaviors proven to spread the disease I love . For the peace of mind that comes with normalcy. I that's really just thinking that he's not saying stressed or anxious he's saying anger. Well that's to think about doctors and nurses and people well in our health care system talking about that sense of anger at the public because. It's arresting and yes we're talking with Anna Sale She's joining me to hear your post pandemic fantasy's today she's host of the podcast death sex and money she's also written a new book it's called Let's Talk about hard things and it comes out in May and you our listeners are with us if you have more thoughts on your post pandemic fantasies or things that you'd like to share with us about what you'll miss from this time as hard as it's been Call us 866-733-6786 e-mail us forum at k.q.e.d. Dot org or get in touch on Twitter or Facebook for more after the break. Impacted your finances. Or Leave us a voicemail. And listen to. The discussion visit. Us on Twitter. And you can. This is Mina Kim and you're listening to forum I'm joined by Anna Sale host of the podcast death sex and money and we're asking you our listeners to tell us about what you're imagining you'll do when the pandemic is finally in their rear window we're getting some vaccine news that is giving people the audacity to try to imagine what that's like again or just the permission needed to really think about the post pandemic time and also even reflect on the things that they might miss from this time as hard as it's been let me go to another call right away Fiona in San Mateo Hi Fiona. I think taking my call. I am going back to that I Right now I don't have to say 3 small children down there the systems use. Them in the car 3 times a day for school and after school board now is a huge threat. Right now is that the pregnant the men who are all over to our. I don't learn in. Kind of. Well well part of the pandemic for me so that I will I will feel and I think some. Yeah that that is actually the biggest thing that I noticed when the pandemic hit was that I didn't have that frantic morning rush of getting the kids to school before I had to start work. Again about kids Christina tweets I had a baby at home on March 26th so he really has not experienced the world or met any of his family he's such an exuberant little being and I cannot wait to introduce him to life outside and beloved ones and for him to shine his joy on others I mean any you have really young kids right yeah how do you what like what is the pandemic made you think about in terms of of them their lives their worlds. So many things but a few things my youngest is just turning to this month and so. So she doesn't really have much of a memory of what what life was like when we were all gathering and getting together you know the thing that I in the brief moment window now and when playgrounds were open over here in Berkeley like she just slides through her little mind like she was so into the crevasse because they were wrapped in yellow tape for so long and to be able to just go out on the playground was such a fun thing to watch and I also have you know she she is a she's a little little extrovert kid you can tell even from how she interacts on the home she loves people she remembers names as she's learning words like she's she's really into meeting people and I kind of wonder if that enthusiasm is because it's a treat now that she gets to see somebody new and not something that's built into our law but I have thought about that yeah Jane in Santa Cruz joining us Jane Well good morning. I was I called because I hadn't thought about this until the question came out what might I mean I am just quite hard of hearing even with hearing aids I have dip. Well Jane did we lose you there for a 2nd Yes Go right ahead you have difficulty hearing even with hearing aids. Yeah and what I love is that since all my gatherings whether they're meeting where I'm you know volunteer groups that I'm part of or other situations we do it on the do or other media like that and I can hear everybody. I don't have to keep a watch but you know repeat that. Also like when I was in meetings I often say that or sometimes somebody else will become my ad but it looks like Remember just because. You do that well Jane I I'm so glad to hear that that's what it's done because it is incredibly has frustrating if you're hard of hearing to not be able to hear everybody and you know kind of on the lines of what this pandemic what people have gained to some extent this is no rights I know that this pandemic has devastated millions of people and I am deeply empathetic However for me personally it has been a godsend I have p.t.s.d. And depression related to military trauma and I felt deep shame about the fact that I'm not able to work I'm also extremely introverted and even in the best of times find social expectations somewhat overwhelming coping 1000 has given me permission to stay home and permission to not interact with many people is taken away the pressure and the shame and I felt more content happier and more myself these last 9 months than I have in the past decade I really hope this break gives me momentum to return to life after things go back to quote normal. You know mean it that those to me right back to back about accessibility and hearing and about the social pressures to engage in socially in a very particular way it makes me wonder and hope for in our post pandemic lives that that because we sort of broken up a lot of the expectations about what showing up for work looks like or what showing up for a meeting has to look like or the ways to gather with friends has to be in a certain way like maybe we can bring with us this awareness that people need different things maybe the morning routine is too tough for you as a parent getting your kids to school so that 1st meeting you're going to do a resume and maybe that's fine maybe because it's easier to hear you're going to zoom in to to that organizing meeting instead of showing up and that we should really you know hard to hear cafeteria or something so maybe we will bring with us a little bit more flexibility because we've learned that we can show up for each other in lots of different ways yeah that's such a good point and also you know reading that comment also reminded me of parents of neuro divergent children saying how much this time has really brought out their kids the pressures that came with having to go to school every day and that it just really has like in the words of that last commenter been a godsend for their for their children. When he writes what I gained is that I have no more fear of missing out because I'm not missing out on anything he said. Stephanie writes I treasure the creative pursuits I've been taking improv drawing writing and dance classes and doing a lot of crafts and baking I love the more hunkered down at Home Lifestyle Alex treats I look forward to resuming teaching in person college courses at San Quentin State Prison we put our classes on hold last March and haven't been back in since let me see if I can go to Bill in Alameda Hi Bill hi Bill are you there. Well let me try to connect bill that you Ok let me go to Eric in Sacramento. Hi How are you I'm well how are you. I'm good I'm good I appreciate the so on this forum and specially this conversation. I'm a funeral director. And I actually managed 3 funeral homes here in the Sacramento area and one of our biggest challenges is you know people don't really understand you know directors I think I you know we come to this business because we want to be of service to others. It's about those that are living it's about those families and and assisting them in in creating a memorial service or funeral service that has meaning that follows rituals and traditions of their their families their ancestors and you know since March we have been unable to do normal services in our buildings we have a tent set up that we can do services there but now we're limited to you know only 10 people outside and for professionals who are so wired to never say no but to say. Let me see. We're in a position where we're having to tell these families many of which in our market our. Asian heritage with strong rituals around doubts. And for us to to be saying no we can't do that or it's been heartbreaking for us. Because we see it in their eyes that they they know we're in a pandemic but they cannot reconcile. Not being able to do something that's so core to who they are so I think you know one of the things we've been trying to do is is telling people no we can't do this today but you know nobody can come anyhow so let's let's get together next spring when people can travel when people can gather and let's honor this life the way it needs to be honored because we can't do that now so let's do that in 6 months or 7 months so we're really trying to give them a alternative but. This is not been easy on our profession it's been incredibly difficult and keeping us you know we're essential workers so keeping a staff that is you know still motivated and understanding and looking for alternatives it has been a challenge I will be glad when the Sysco over Merrick Thanks for sharing that and you know just hearing about that experience for you and just sort of how how this has been such a soul searching time and then the things that we're learning about the work that we do and the people that we live among you know Joel writes code has brought out a greater sense of community in our neighborhood the distance chatting with neighbors and waving at a greeting people walking and running I hope that persists to some degree I mean one of the things that I was really struck. By as I'm hearing these responses and as I was saying earlier how our conversation moved from you know the things that we imagine because of how hard and difficult this time then but also sort of the things we want to keep is just how intertwined pain and joy really are. There's so much that we felt both during this time yeah yeah and I think that that's been kind of challenging for a lot of people to reconcile it's hard to say it's hard to find the right words to say there's something about this time that I think I will look back and treasure in the midst of the awareness of how much suffering and under the equal suffering there has been but in different ways I think all of us are have encountered you know things that that we didn't expect to happen in 2020 that that I felt like nice guests and also certainly a lot of really deep pain let me see if I can one last person in Frank in San Jose Hi Frank. Hi Yeah I'm 68 years old my wife is 67. A few years ago we moved from the east coast to San Jose in order to be closer to our daughter and our son a law when they had to chip one day when they had 2 little boys they were new grandparents with this pandemic Ironically they they no longer you know they both work full time they can work out a home but they no longer can really bring in an outsider for child care or go to go to daycare so we who are supposed to be the bonus grandparents are now the full time caretakers for these 2 little boys and. Take a tax break for. Ok we. Said It's been an absolute joy. It's to us spent. You know it's been an absolute joy and we would never trade this for the world you know and we we were able to manage we've managed to move into an apartment directly across the street from where they live so we need we are we are getting we've developed an incredible bond with this 3 year old boy. And then. So it's so I just want to say this is something we would never give up something we gained. From the Spencer Oh Frank I think you made both b. And a tear up I am so glad that you have had that special time and I absolutely cannot think of a better way to in the show on that note Frank thank you so much for sharing that and Anna Sale thank you so much for being with me today. To hear and reflect on the kinds of answers that we have gotten today and and really what they tell us about what is most important to us yeah it's been a real honor Thanks for having me meaner than a sale hosting creator of the podcast death sex and money and now we are going to end the hour with a little bit of music and I think we're going to treat ourselves to a couple songs today not just wind and 1st up this is a song sent to us by a listener will be still best friends song by Razi is getting me through 2020 it's the ultimate oh true friendship during this crazy time I've been in daily contact with a text read a best friend girl friends it's been life same funny sad all these emotions and tonight the lyrics are singing along at They're really very fast. I want to. See. Best friends song by Razi thanks so listen Liezel for sharing it with us next song Next up is a song a little more somber It's called No Time For Love like now by Michael Stipe and the Big Red Machine sent to us by listener Tanya who writes this song is helping me to remember to live life now we can't wait just because it's the end of the world as we've known it. If I was president. Thanks a listener Jonathan for sharing it with us and if you want to hear the songs listeners are recommending you can. Get you through 2020 playlist on Spotify Thanks to our. Thanks to Judy Campbell do you think today's segment form is also produced by. Susan Britton our senior editor engineer. And also. Executive editor Lindsey that officer is current and I mean it Kim it is such a privilege to talk with you regularly listeners have a great weekend. Funds for the production of are provided by the members of the public radio and the Germana Coast Foundation and the generosity foundation. Stay with us for 2 hours of live programming from the b.b.c. Just ahead and then at 1 o'clock on Science Friday drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is the topic the trumpet ministration is rushing to sell drilling rights to oil companies before we get a new president support for k.q.e.d. Comes from European sleep works offering mattresses and bedding made from natural materials and free of harmful chemicals its cotton latex and wool components are fully certified by one of the world's leading ecological testing facilities details online at sleep Works dot com My name is Michelle Hannigan Jean-Marie will be your announcer for the rest of the night the producers reporters and hosts of k.q.e.d. Public Radio are represented by the Screen Actors Guild American Federation of Television and Radio Artists a f l c I o You're listening to k.q.e.d. San Francisco and k.q. We North Highlands Sacramento it's 11 pm. B.b.c. World Service at 7 hours g.m.t. Welcome to Weekend with Julianne Moore of the u.s. Food and Drug Administration authorizes the Pfizer biotech coronavirus vaccine for emergency use study. Trial and I'm comfortable with and I think we all needed this to happen and we'll hear from the Armenian capital Yerevan as the country comes to terms with losing a short but punishing war with neighboring Azerbaijan and the Palestinians given just 10 minutes to leave their homes we hear from Israeli defense officials the civil administration supervision the unit carries out in force indicative of his against planning and building those nations as part of its commitment to maintain public order and the rule of law. And today's sports after the latest world news. B.b.c. News Hello I'm Tom what's the u.s. Food and Drug Administration has authorized the Pfizer biome tac coronavirus vaccine for emergency use presidents Trump said it would be made available for free to all Americans and that's the 1st inoculations would happen within 24 hours his administration had put intense pressure on the f.d.a. To approve a piece about its reports the vaccines authorization in the United States comes at a time when new infections hospital admissions on deaths from the disease soaring to record levels around the country the decision means the vaccination will be given to people aged 16 and above with health care workers on the elderly in long term care facilities expected to be the 1st recipients in line with advice issued by British regulators the u.s. Food and Drug Administration said the vaccine should not be given to individuals with a history of severe allergic reactions the Pfizer job earlier received approval from authorities in Mexico his will ground the announcement couldn't come soon enough for many Mexicans the decision to approve the finds of bio enteric coronavirus vaccine for emergency use was made on the same day that Mexico registered its highest daily number of Corona virus cases since the pandemic began there had been 12253 cases in 24 hours said Mexico's health some secretary Google has kept 10 and there had been more than 113000 related deaths registered in Mexico Mexico City has been especially badly hit and there are no i.c.u. Beds currently available for emergency patients in the city President Trump has criticized the u.s. Supreme Court for rejecting a bit by the state of Texas to invalidate presidential election results in Georgia Michigan Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and an angry tweet he accused the court of really letting down his Republican supporters and showing other wisdom nor courage the ruling is the latest setback to the Trump campaign's effort. To use the courts to overturn Joe Biden's victories in key states in the presidential election Texas had sought to stop electoral college votes from those states being counted the Electoral College is due to vote on Monday. Iranian state media say the opposition journalist has been executed after an appeal against the death sentence was rejected early McConnell reports. Ran a hugely popular channel called imagine news on the social media app telegram he was accused by the Iranian authorities if amending violence during nationwide anti-government protests which broke out in late 2017 Ruhollah had fled Iran and had been operating out of Turkey and France where he'd been granted asylum it's not clear how he ended up back in Iran but it's thought he was seized last year in an operation by agents of Iran's Revolutionary Guards in neighboring Iraq. World news from the b.b.c. . Talks the Jews resume in Brussels with just one day to go until a deadline imposed by Britain and the e.u. To make progress towards a free trade agreement both sides have said negotiations are likely to end without a deal on Friday Britain's prime minister Boris Johnson chaired a meeting on preparedness for that outcome the defense ministry in London has confirmed that naval vessels are on standby to protect British fishing waters if no agreement is in place when the transition period ends on the 31st of December. The Hong Kong pro-democracy campaigner Jimmy lie has been denied bail on charges that he colluded with a foreign country to endanger national security he was brought before the court in handcuffs chains to a guard down even sent reports from Hong Kong journalists and supporters gathered outside West Kalou magistrates court awaiting updates on the activists case probation protesters shouted slogans through megaphones and held banners in the air Jimmy law is facing charges of colluding with foreign countries under the new national security law he could face life in prison I have to say this city is facing an unprecedented crackdown and that Mr lies case is the latest example of political persecution a series of rockets have struck the Afghan capital Kabul killing one person and injuring 2 others the interior ministry said 10 rockets were fired from a vehicle in the 4th police district they landed in various parts of the city including the international airport it's the 2nd such attack on the capital in less than a month. Is setting up a committee to take over the running of Haiti's National Football Association last month gave a life than to its president John Barr for having sexually abused female players he denies the allegations in a statement said Mr John Barr and his circle seeking to prevent or discourage victims and witnesses from giving testimony b.b.c. News. It's 6 minutes past 7 g.m.t. Welcome to Weekend from the b.b.c. World Service with me Julia Morrow who with me throughout the program I have 2 guests television journalist and writer Lindsey Hilsum international editor for Channel 4 News here in the u.k. And Andrew Gray the European Union editor of Politico Europe who is currently based in Brussels you will hear more from them in a moment but we begin with the news coming out of America in the last few hours the u.s. Food and Drug Administration was arising the Pfizer biotech coronavirus vaccine for emergency use President Trump said it would be made available for free to all Americans and that the 1st inoculations would take place within 24 hours he's administrator had put intense pressure on the f.d.a. To approve the vaccine coated 19 has killed more than 292000 Americans Well I've been speaking to Dr Leo missile or a medical doctor and immunotherapy scientist who's in San Francisco 2 days especially we were all waiting anxiously for this moment to come for this they took I've studied their raw data from Pfizer's vaccine trial and I'm comfortable with alcoves and I think we all needed this to happen one of the logistical challenge that the author a he's now face because this is got to be distributed and administered across 50 states how tough is that going to be it's pretty tough I think it's important to understand how religious to call arrangements in the United States happen and I think it's important for states to step up and make their own vaccination plant's publicly available for us doctors and scientists to react and get feedback we have yet to see a solid vaccination plan at a federal level and we're lacking a robust vaccination campaign and I'm worried that we are a little too late until a large number of the population in the United. Get Even eyes again scope it will need to be cautious about measures to contain the spread of the virus and we have yet to see from discouraged administration those guidance although we do have a word from the Health and Human Services secretary don't we that this program will start as soon as Monday or Tuesday yes but the vaccines will help us speed up that process but we need to understand is that that summation of plans what they are in how the distributions will look like at a state in a county level you see we have never introduced multiple vaccines with different safety profiles true a broad population in the United States in this urgent matter before and that the distribution of this vaccine is not only about delivering those drugs to sites it requires staff training it requires public education around those vaccines it requires doctors monitoring who gets the vaccine for births and how they are deliver and all of those Thanks creates a huge complexity and wire and sometimes you see states like New York and California doing a great job about discussing those issues with the public but it's not standard across the States it's reported that the Food and Drug Administration came under intense pressure from the Trump administration to approve this vaccines use. What do you make of that and what do you know of this pressure Well I do know that the current realities that we are facing is the attempt to politicize every single aspect of science and medicine and to be honest the politicization of science is not something that we actually want we do as well have this announcement of the for the purchase of 100000000 doses of the McDonough vaccine different oversea from the Pfizer biome take vaccine this suggests an ongoing process of building up man. Series of potential vaccinations in the state that's right pull back saying something that I have not studied they have not yet made their data publicly available they have not made the raw data from there that your clinical studies available for scientists and doctors as myself to look at the safety profile and understand what kind of patient population they did the study on their clinical trials. Dr Leo Nestle a medical doctor immunotherapy scientist in San Francisco on the news that the u.s. Food and Drug Administration has authorized the Pfizer bio on tech a coronavirus vaccine for emergency use and Lindsey Hilsum of the start of the program you were talking about traveling around the United States covering the election and we then touched on the logistical challenge in that conversation of what lies ahead I mean the scale of what these people have now got to deliver is massive isn't it it's absolutely massive and and he was saying that there's plenty of expertise within the u.s. Administration that which is true but I think the real difficulty is what it's up to that touch down which is the campaign getting people to trust those that see you know when I was America I was in what they called a patriot freedom rally in Michigan and way you have people there who equate to not the right to not wear a mosque and not have their temperature taken with the right to carry weapons they saw or this or as assaults on their feet and these are people you see many of you in Florida queuing long conspiracy they were people who thought that the vaccine is something which has been dreamed up by Bill Gates I mean these people have all sorts of extraordinary ideas that you think a vaccine is going to put some kind of chip in their arms or whatever and when you have the bike administration in which they're already predisposed to mistrust I mean the lady I met in Tombstone Arizona who thought that Joe Biden was going to put you in a concentration camp because he's an agent of communist China is she going to believe that the vaccine is safe it's going to take a massive campaign to get her a lot of people to believe in this and do it even then and I find this extraordinary the number of people who are dying in a case like 19 in America now last week several times the day the number exceeded the number who were killed on 911 so while 292000 have now died yeah you know I think extraordinary We're talking about 3 more or less 3. You know I still don't and Andrew grade the point that Lindsay was making about convincing doubters that having a vaccination is the right thing to do I mean that that's a worldwide challenge actually isn't it absolutely it is going to be an issue for Europe as well for use on my colleagues we're covering over the last couple of days this was a major topic it's actually remarkable her similar conversations are right across the world it's partly the logistics European Commission president was all on the line and had a nice as sewn by on that she said in students' lives but the Asians do know the words is really all about getting these vaccines out to the people and to them as quickly as possible and on that front you can see a bit of an international competition developed in the u.k. Has already started to rule out the us well and there are some questions being asked in Europe but why the European Union has not approved any of these vaccines so far but on the well the question of persuading people something that there's a lot on the line apparently talk to leaders is that the European Commission is already planning a campaign on exactly this issue and one of the ways they want to if you like reach out beyond the political bubble is that they have a plan to enlist football stars. Will start here partly talk to leaders who would be enlisted to persuade people to go along and get back to life you've got to pick the right football style even if some people might take against a particular proposed this is I was just thinking actually coming from the west of Scotland trying to learn from Rangers and Celtic if you were going to do that story wouldn't you just I mean what you've both touched upon there and perhaps would be interesting here both of your thoughts on this is is clearly you're both firmly of the view that it's the right thing to do to have this vaccine when the opportunity arises and most people are of that view does that mean you compel people or does that mean you persuade people Lindsay. I think compelling people is very difficult because they think in America the moment you compel people then you're proving it's the states and that is they love and they want to do this to you I think even though it's and some more complicated I think you have to persuade people I don't see another way and yes see here I think there is going to be beaten already seat leaders I think preemptively rushing to to do you shoot people to see we're not going to force you to do this because this is Lindsey since I think you can see that there would be a fight plus there would always be a counter reaction to that would be counterproductive I'm going to be I've got no idea I don't sense well since Donald Trump seems to be in favor of the vaccine since many of the people are suspicious of it are his supporters why doesn't Joe Biden approach don't trump and tell him to go out and to sway people to take the vaccine they want something useful he could do since he no longer will have a job up to January 20 I'd like to eavesdrop on that phone call when it's made. Would you both to sort of broaden the conversation about other recent work or other issues of interest or actually willing to I was going to continue the cover conversation because of places you've been to see this firsthand over the last year including I think Northern Italy and Brazil what what do you take out of both of those experiences like I mean Brazil was the most stunning really and as you both are just the other week was a laughing at people who have 19 I mean he's just extraordinary but one of the things that I noticed that I was impressed that I went to a pro ball Sonora Randi in South Dakota where they were telling me you know that was exactly the kind of 19 was a hoax that is nowhere near as serious as you think they were however where he must speak they were must. Face on so maybe there's a little bit of a certain half believing that it was extraordinary in getting down the amas and where I went to a village a couple of hours. Both from the announce and that was very interesting because the indigenous people there had a chance at a fantastic little clinic and the young woman who was the notice who was using the tests the people left and then was there was a traditional healer even leaves of the forest see would make people symptoms easier and so so it was extraordinary to see their how they were using what they had to do their best to you couldn't cure it but to treat people with. Andrew would to you about Germany the future of that country as it goes into a year when angle America will stop being chancellor that's going to be quite a moment isn't it absolutely a moment for Germany and for Europe the you can really see how the dominates the discussion and is very much the elder statesman of Europe and you could see that at the summit that's just past you can see it regularly and so you know I have colleagues who don't really remember a German chancellor apart from until America is going to be a huge change will be a big focus for me and you know for my colleagues covering Germany next year the election is due in September and the american me will stay on as a caretaker after that but she's not running for reelection so we're going to The Big Year here in Germany if we are 1st and her party the Christian Democratic Union have to sort out a new leader that person will then be in poor position to become the candidate for Chancellor but they wouldn't necessarily be the candidate for Chancellor and then of course you have a general election in which the party would be expected to come 1st so we probably have the best shot of actually installing the next chancellor but whoever it's going to be right now. I can't tell you exactly who's going to be but it does look like it's probably going to be a month probably a West German man so it's a mistake to. Not have the kind of narrative that. If if she is regarded as the leader of Europe and I think you're probably right in saying that who succeeds her in that role do you think yeah that's a big question there's going to be some just like your position you know who ever becomes the next chancellor of Germany is always going to have a leading through because of the force of the economic force if you like the size of Germany within the European Union Emanuel macro obviously sees himself very much as not just the leader of France but as a leader of the European Union and will then become will have a substantial amount of experience as president of France by that period so I expect that he will take on an even greater rule and then of course you have people the leaders of the e.u. Institutions such as we're still on the line something of a protege of the American So angle of Merkel or or Merkel isn't me live all we're still on the line and even if I can America has departed but it's interesting isn't it in terms of what it does for the dynamic of the organization you look at countries like hungry in Poland for example who are being criticized by some other members for particular policies does that died down dynamic there change at all do you think without her on the scene I think that's the worry I told existing picking up from deploying diplomats that we talk to Iran dresses that she is the person who keeps everyone in line she's the one who mediates she's the one who brokers to come from my sis and with so you could have these increasing tensions which we see within the European Union Hungary and Poland the governments of those countries on one side and others the Nordics Western European countries on the other side and without kind of heavy we mediate or there is a danger that these tensions fugitives you know control my guest today Andrew great and Lindsey Hilsum more from them to come You're listening to Weekend from the b.b.c. World Service. Pretty past the hour and Paul seris is with me with the latest sports news a full weekend of sport ahead Paul what are you. The highlights Yes good morning Julian I think the highlight must be the World Heavyweight Champion and the Joshua taking Gary askew Brett pull of at London's Wembley Arena tonight in Correspondent Michael said I was at the weigh in yesterday when things got a little heated located build up turn hostile on the stage is pure left switched from the jovial personality we've been around all week to a character more in keeping with the ball Gary and warrior he's named after Joshua told him he's heard it all before and wasn't rattled the chording 2 from 0 to Eddie Hearn who was close by as they broke into an exchange of feisty fist pounds Joshua way just over 17 stone 2 pounds as he places more emphasis on athleticism who left at $171.00 was his lightest in more than a decade it's not often Julien we see 2 top notch heavyweights going at each other so it should be a really good fight tonight and of course the prospects are too sure against Tyson Fury in the 6 yes that is one to relish plenty of Premier League football football as well today yes right yes the 1st of those matches took place last night West Ham beat leads to one at alland road but the highlights of the weekend must be united hosting city at Old Trafford in the Manchester Darby You know I suppose all they can sell share is under a bit of pressure after they were knocked out of the Champions League this week but his opposite number Pep Guardiola was full of praise for him from is an exceptional manager I can say about my job because I'm not there locker room but how he handled that you know the team and how representing United all around the walls so I know knowledge there I know that has been the result. But other high opinion about about he's working next also is the Madrid tabulator on athletic are top of the league and the only unbeaten side left in the league are so should be well worth a watch so that's football boxing What else should we keep an eye open for this we never lose. Hamilton is back in his Mercedes after after missing last week's race in Bahrain with coronaviruses the season ending appetite the ground Preet on Sunday Japanese go for Hinako should know he's leading the women's u.s. Open at the halfway stage Patrick reach shots a magnificent 64 yesterday the European Tour season finale into by he leads that by 2 strokes and this champion's Cup rugby all weekend tutored and plenty of coverage of much of that here on the b.b.c. World Service Paul thank you very much indeed Paul Sarah's with the sport nearly 23 minutes past the hour now we were talking about code 19 a little earlier on and as Corona virus infections continue to surge in the United States the pandemic has devastated small businesses in the country in New York Manhattan's Chinatown has been particularly badly hit the economic hardship comes in the wake of reports earlier in the year when the virus outbreak 1st emerged in China and then started spreading in the u.s. Of discrimination against Asian Americans the food writer Grace Young now warns that after months of lockdown and more than $24000.00 deaths in the city from coated 19 Manhattan's Chinatown is in danger of slipping away she took our reporter Michelle Florrie on a tour of the once bustling immigrant neighborhood. Then hands Chinatown it's not like anything else it has ancestral vibrations in the streets of joy years Mart they aren't mulberry and we can't lose this. Is a cookbook writer who's been fighting for the small business owners who make up New York's Chinatown. We meeting here in Chinatown mean what is it you wanted to show. I wanted to show you this store in particular tearing because it is the oldest souvenir store of old school in America since. A lockdown I have come by quite frequently to see if they were open and they weren't and I was really scared that we'd lost chains Let's go check it out you go. To nursery here I'm Michelle Wow what a fantastic still this is the kind of story that I just loved as a child because there was always something that I could find so they have old fashioned things like pick up sticks it's a very small space so I can imagine that you know if this were full of customers it would be very hard to do social distancing that's why now we limit 3 individuals in here at a time we got the Ok to open up and all this early September we finally got someone who was able to get his hands on some picks a class because they were out of stock. Everybody was buying Pixie glass so Hof the show is now behind Plexiglas Yes Yes Ellen the teen runs things gift shop with her mother that started the business in 58 and Mom came from Hong Kong 58 and we've been here since Wow And you reopened in September how has it been since. Extremely quiet. There's people in the streets you know people come in they walk in they go they leave some walk in and they buy little trinkets a backscratcher a fan thing the traps but it's very slow there are days that mom and I will sit here from 11 to 6 and she'll stare at me stare at her will stare out the door and that's how we passed the day time to carry on with. Till now we're on our way to Hopley the restaurant 98 percent of the businesses here are small businesses each and every one of them one of a kind this street right now should be more packed with people I mean it's a weekday lunch time and yeah I don't see a lunchtime crowd now not at all and you can see the damage already on this just one floor. Too many storefronts are closed. Down the steps that need to help keep one of the oldest restrooms Manhattan's Chinatown serving up Cantonese food since 1968 Chinatown tough one to one big one park and one that's tough to take no real current in a journey movie tells us how business is doing. Really difficult to see the business. Come back only 30 percent before the time pandemic even though there's a vaccine people say it's going to take a long time to get back to normal and that winter is going to be very tough How long can you survive I don't think you can hang that long since March to get paid until now just yesterday I went to the Royal are there with them so you need to roll the rent I mean how many months can you go there if the landlord doesn't but maybe another one or 2 months at least Chinatown institution is teetering and it's not the only one right now all these businesses. Are hanging by a thread to help Grace Young teamed up with the James Beard Foundation norm Ching an Instagram campaign they want people to order food from their favorite Chinese spot and to post photos of their meal using the hash tag save Chinese restaurants Chinatown for me is one of the things that makes New York great and makes this country great and I think we forget that America is a land of immigrants and Chinatown is the story of this country. The last voice you heard there Grace Young ending that report by Michelle flurry as the 2 of them went for a tour of Manhattan's Chinatown examining the impact the coated 19 has had on that particular area of New York City you're listening to Weekend from the b.b.c. World Service My guests today Lindsey Hilsum and Andrew Gray more from them in the next half an hour the latest news headlines coming up. Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service in the United States is. Producer industry. Public radio. Media with support from g.e. . He helps businesses build resilience strategies services and cloud. Including g.e. . Next digital procurement and supply chain platforms. This week on Science Friday the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska has been protected from development for decades now the administration is rushing to sell drilling rights to oil companies just before a new presidential administration comes in we'll bring you the latest will also give you some book recommendations the best science books of 2020 that's on Science Friday from the studios. You can hear Science Friday Saturday morning at 1 o'clock the time now is 1130. This is weekend. Still to come as a. Piece. Of the. Recent conflict left. In the number of Palestinian homes being demolished by the Israeli. B.b.c. News the u.s. Food and Drug Administration has authorized the Pfizer buy on tech coronavirus vaccine for emergency use President Trump said it would be made available for free to all Americans and that's the 1st inoculations would take place within 24 hours the Pfizer job earlier received approval from the authorities in Mexico the decision came on the same day that Mexico registered its highest daily number of Corona virus cases since the pandemic began President Trump has criticized the Supreme Court for rejecting a bid by the state of Texas to invalidate a presidential election results in 4 key states won by Joe Biden in a tweet here to use the court of letting down his Republican supporters and of showing that neither wisdom nor courage a federal prison in the United States has carried out its 2nd execution in 2 days. A 56 year old convicted killer from Louisiana is the 10th federal prisoner on death row to be executed since done since July Iranian state media say the journalist has been put to death by hanging he ran a social media news channel called news and was accused of having fermented violence during anti-government protests in 2017 the Hong Kong media tycoon and critic of Beijing Jimmy Lai has been denied bail on a charge brought under territories draconian new security law he's accused of colluding with a foreign power the case has been adjourned until April negotiations between Britain and the European Union are due to resume in Brussels just a day before a deadline to make progress towards a free trade agreement both sides have warned that they could end without a deal. A series of rockets have struck the Afghan capital Kabul killing one person and injuring 2 others the interior ministry said 10 rockets landed in various parts of the city including near the international airport. B.b.c. News. You're listening to the b.b.c. World Service I'm Julia Morrow we've weekend with me throughout the program the television journalist and writer Lindsey Hilsum international editor for Channel 4 News in the u.k. And Andrew grey the European Union editor of Politico Europe based in Brussels Lindsay I think last time you were on Sunday with me we talked about Marie Colvin the war correspondent about whom you've written a biography in extremis How is the telling of her story gone down now that people have a chance to learn a little bit more about her so I've had an incredible reaction to the story not least from younger can list especially women and I find this very difficult because I think that they see her as a as a role model but the story is I mean it's exemplary in the sense that she was an extraordinary generous and war correspondent the work she did was amazing but it's also cautionary because she didn't take enough care of her own life I mean that's why that's why she died because she she shouldn't have gone into Syria as rebel held Syria by the message she dazing in for every 20 trial that was just too dangerous and so I'm always trying to straddle that line when I when I talk young the jobless about worrying about his story because there is inevitably amongst particularly younger aspiring journalists a sense of of fearlessness I want to get to the story come what may and that needs to be tempered a little doesn't it oh I mean my hands stands on end when I think of the things that I did in my twenty's when I was ready May I rather he even to my senses when I was reading around East Africa you know just hungry for the story and find out what was going on and also trying to make a name for myself and sign say people to make people take me seriously think that they did things that I would never do now. I'm so tempted with a follow up but I. Shant at this point I want to do just ask Andrew about life in Brussels under coronavirus and in terms of how you and your team do their job on the coronavirus how much of a challenge is this being you know it's been a huge challenge from the road in some of the rougher parts of the world as well and this actually has been one of the most difficult things I think that there had to do as a journalist partly it's about just you realize how much a new regime works by a lot of people being in the same space accidental conversations if you like and there you know the way that we do our job is just a lot about having a lot of journalists in a small space not socially distanced particularly and letting them work together and then there's also obviously a lot of political reporting is about building up contacts it's about face to face meetings it's about quite coffee somewhere with a source and all of those things have been either very difficult or impossible moment here in Brussels it's quite interesting actually to hear that lovely china package earlier. And just to hear a restaurant open because they have to be open here in Brussels for weeks and weeks and this is you know the 2nd looked at him so even hearing that so that I know you know they were saying that capacity was capacity but the number of customers that we had been much reduced but just hearing the sound of a restaurant was actually quite a novelty so a lot of the back and forth of political journalism a lot of it really thrives on one face to face contact and making new contacts and that's the thing I think it's particularly difficult when you know you're doing so much of your interaction via phone calls vs you're not meeting new people you know building up contacts and that's really really difficult and we're going Lindsey Hilsum with me throughout the program not with me in person for the reasons that Andrew was just alluding to but with me nonetheless and we're going to talk about Armenia as a by John for the next few moments because the Armenian Prime Minister Nicola passion Yan has been facing. Protests demanding his resignation in the capital Yerevan since his government signed a cease fire with neighboring Azerbaijan ending their 6 week war over the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh Armenia suffered an unequivocal defeat in that conflict and the agreement that ended the fighting will see Armenia hand back to Azerbaijan swathes of territory it's held since the 1990 s. When the 2 nations lost for a war the law says shattered Armenia's confidence in its military strength and raised urgent questions among many about the competence of Mr passion yes government so will he hang on to power Richard again Goshen is the director of the regional Studies Center that's a think tank based in year of Annan joins me live Richard welcome to the program Thank you Julianne how difficult how difficult are these times for Prime Minister passion yet. Difficult and daunting yes but the political crisis in Armenia is a natural outpouring of frustration after 6 weeks of the war we were only in 4 weeks of relative peace and to be expected the government has done little to prepare Armenian Society for the severity of the losses that were inflicted but at the same climb the prime minister had no choice but to accept a Russian imposed ceasefire and although it was a clear military defeat and in fact the end of a myth of invincibility for our media at the same time there is no viable 'd or even credible threat to the prime minister in other words the opposition is largely discredited by its links to the former 'd corrupt regime in Armenia is part of the problem that he and his government face in the wake of this defeat the fact that while the fighting was going on the messaging was that it was all really going rather well. Oh clearly in other words it is rather an indictment of the narrative in terms of wishful thinking was unfortunately outpacing realistic reporting and this was again coupled with a failure to prepare society for the extent of the losses and in this sense it's a degree of accountability and the prime minister must at least recognize the need for an early election fresh mandate if you will reflecting the new political reality do you think he'll do that. Actually yes in the past 48 hours he's open secret negotiations with the opposition refusing to resign but willing to open the door for her early elections and I do think it's the only way forward Andrew Gray a thought from you maybe a question to Richard. It was interesting to have passion yet on other fronts you know I remember he came to power a couple of years ago through tests and he was I think promising to clean house in terms of of corruption those he actually done on that front and his that bought him some some credibility at least with you know the population at large Well very good question Andrew pushing on as we know came to power in a rare non violent victory of people power in the folk all velvet revolution of 2018 he then embarked on a an ambitious anti-corruption campaign however I do think that in many ways the political will is now lacking and one result of the war unfortunately is in Armenia still democratic but much more dependent on Russia so I am a little bit worried that democracy and reform are now imperiled. Yet rich as I was it was a sort of peace process and understand I see which went on between nice nice for the last 4 and this and this one so it's it now Amin you gave all that charity is there an argument that says if the Armenians have given away and it looks as if I shall have to compromise that he says finalize some kind of peace process they could have avoided losing all the territory the things they've lost this time. Well Lindsey as usual the short answer is you're correct yes there was a degree of complacency and arrogance for many years having said that the peace process involved a little process and no peace in other words diplomacy was a failed attempt with an absence of political will on all sides not just Armenia but the clear answer is yes there were too many lost opportunities for a more peaceful resolution Andrew How closely was all this being watched within the European Union so. And probably not closely enough you know it was interesting you could you could see some sort of European media coverage and it's particularly interesting from the point of view of someone who watches that European Union closely because the e.u. Talks a lot about wanting to exert more influence in its neighborhood in at least becoming more powerful player on the world stage and not being sue so much the victim of events are not so far away and this was a classic case where the European Union just didn't really seem to be an actor total in any of this you know it was Russia and Turkey really who were the you know the key external actors you you mentioned rusher in Turkey which is a useful key for me to bring another voice into this conversation Joshua because Sara is the turkey caucuses editor of The News website Eurasia net based in the Georgian capital Tbilisi Joshua the role of Russia the role of Turkey How did that fit into this story. Well it was certainly quite significant especially on the Turkish front I mean Russia's been a longtime actor in this both as a kind of the key. Diplomatic. 'd power negotiating between the 2 sides but also selling weapons to both sides Turkey's entrance was kind of the wild card and kind of the new thing and. Turkey very forcefully backed off about John which it really never had before in this conflict providing weapons providing mercenaries that approach in Syria. And in the end it's not clear exactly what extent the Turkish intervention kind of tipped the scales in Azerbaijan favor but but obese to some degree. And so it appeared initially that this this may be kind of setting the stage for a new balance of power new kind of 1000 power and the South Caucasus where Turkey is going to be a more powerful player and Russia was going to do to kind of defer to Turkey as it's ended I don't think that that review is how it looks anymore the way that the war ended in fact put Russia quite a bit. Stronger back in the driver's seat the cease fire agreement that the that they all signed was brokered by Russia Turkey was nowhere to be found and. When you see Russia's in the driver's seat you're looking at a situation where it was kind of given to the on in terms of who to back and who not to back because it played the role of peacemaker and a now peace keeper puts it in a stronger position. Well I think that the 1st rogering of war I mean that Russia. It's we're still kind of figuring out what it did exactly during the war and it is what it did is it followed its treaty obligations to our media to the letter which is to say that it made it very clear to us or by John that it would not allow any kind of incursion onto our union territory however it also made clear that it. Karloff and the area surrounding Harbach as Azerbaijani territory and that's something that it was not have to get in to defend and they were there fairly unambiguous about that I think a lot of Armenians expected more help from kind of the spirit of the alliance and that they would help provide the army and of her back with more weapons and standard state they didn't do. So yeah Lindsey let me bring you in on this as so often happens conflict which looks geographically relatively confined actually involves monks big big players how do you see the Turkey Russia element of this what I see is a techie and Russia so seeing out there part of the well between the mostly regional powers because if you look back to 94 then the Americans were involved in some way that they they were concerned about this but I'm not sure if you heard a single thing from God something that level as if you know this and you have to say with Syria and Syria at the moment whatever settlement it is and that is what. Is going to be between Russia and checking the Americans have a sense of themselves and so although I understand you know the people within America and many without a fed up of American intervention America big the policeman of the world and all of that stuff but it is not going to play the. Then you know who is going to pay that well and you ask is this the best thing that everything just gets so if he has to say and. I'm not so sure interesting though that to use the phrase sorted out here are 2 men who are quite often on opposite sides in various conflicts but they seem to find a way of of working that out Oh they do and maybe that's eased by tacky buying some more very nice Russian weapons and really irritating everybody else. Wants No Look these are 2 strong red nose then not great so Democrats but says they've signed a way of sorting things out and maybe that is the you know the way they were 2 going to be for the next 2 years I didn't know. Biden's Foundation put out a couple of statements or at least one said it's on the want to so yes you know they hope to get back to what they regard as normal you know the Americans having a view a big vote of I'm not so sure Mr position Mr that sample Well just look at your own body if the Americans do take a greater interest in the near future how does that fit in do you believe. Well I think you know even even had there been somebody other than Donald Trump in the White House it's so pretty hard to imagine that the u.s. Really could have. People affected the outcome of this conflict or the conduct of it I mean that the u.s. Is. Pulling back from this region long before Donald Trump became president if he obviously accelerated these processes but you know at this point it's very hard to imagine you know what what u.s. Administration. However. Wants to be getting giving supernal the u.s. . And Richard let me come back to you because we just of broaden the discussion there you are and you're a van we talked about the protests we talked about the difficulties facing the prime minister now is suddenly talking about the geopolitics of all this if you're in Armenia and you're angry about losing this war what's your view of Russia and of Turkey. Well to be honest what we see are 2 developments or observations one is in many ways it was Turkey's on precedented engagement intervention in direct support militarily a larger John that made this war very different than any other the 2nd was an uncharacteristically passive and pensive Russian response surprisingly but going forward I think the real danger here is the precedent what this conflict now represents is a victory for the force of arms a military resolution to an essentially political conflict it's a Warri but as an American and as a as a Democrat I do expect both the by the administration and the European Union to reengage in this new vacuum in the post-war stability operations and this does have some promise for overcoming closed borders and isolation and injecting at the greed of stability beyond the plans of 2 middle aged dictators one in the Ankara and one in Moscow reengagement Andrew Gray from the e.u. As well as the u.s. It will be very interesting to see and have much of the European Union. Growing feeling initially of interested to hear from the chicken or from Joshua whether they think that you could or should fully agree to it will in the region how much leverage it has at the moment and might go all that interesting that well let me bring Joshua in on that and that might bring his to a natural conclusion the role of the e.u. And what it should be and what it needs Joshua. Well I think that what I said about the u.s. Probably gave even more so for the u. I mean I think he was trying to be involved in European countries individually try to be involved in this conflict but I think you know the work that actually it's all fair and. Nobody ought to get is going to care about the caucuses as much as Russia and as much as Turkey does. I think I have to go fairly I think that's your best guess and Richard I would say in terms of what you can actually practically accomplish in the Caucasus Well I thank you both very much for coming on and Joshua could share Richard Geragos ssion in our Yeah you're listening to Weekend from the b.b.c. World Service. Now despite the coronavirus pandemic 2020 has seen a dramatic increase in Palestinian homes being demolished by the Israeli author seats some 900 people lost their place to live and that's the biggest number in some years Palestinians often build in occupied East Jerusalem and parts of the West Bank under full Israeli control and they do that without permits saying that these are almost impossible for them to get hold of among the building still facing demolition orders there are many Palestinian schools now Middle East correspondent you know Lynell now reports. Within seconds time is gone as an Israeli Bill days I'm in the same. Since then and not that this is been a record year for demolitions with all the misery they bring. To the. But in the Bedouin village of pivots homes the rebuilding last month more than 70 people here were given just 10 minutes to leave their makeshift times one of them Hobson a man believes Israel wants to drive all kind of Stinney and out of the Jordan Valley which they once as part of an independent state. This turned our lives into hell had a 2 day old baby and even that family's shelter was demolished they spent one full Mike under the rain and this is all because of the Israeli occupation. The families have now moved into donated tents and rounded up the sheep which lost their pens Israel's military says all destructions destroyed here had been put up without permits and that because this area is a firing range that it uses for training it's not safe for Palestinians to live in . In total hundreds of Palestinians have lost their homes this year all in places that are especially sensitive in the Israel Palestinian conflict. Is from the Israeli campaign point that said there will exceed the ration and scope of the missions of what's in the homes and it's the worst of it has been a number of years but if we take even a bigger picture perspective this is going on for decades eventually it's always the same project 3 advancing demolitions were Palestinians an expansion of settlements for Jewish settlers. In another village I visit tensions with nearby Jewish settlements run high on. The new density in school is the best chance local children have to study and specky learn is one of the what anybody some of the best think I'm proud to say the name of my school says 14 year old she explains that her age most girls used to stop studying as. Their families didn't like them going on The Long Walk to the school they previously attended in another village and whether all the children used to stay home couldn't I think whenever but it was easy and secure in. The air. This class is about the struggle for Palestinian statehood the school itself could soon be history it has a demolition order as it was built without an Israeli permit known as really is the head teacher I think you can make it that way if he were worried about the future of the school from the start and if we dwelled on that we'd never have made progress he carried on so that we could give these children the chance of an education which is a basic right in the us and. Many countries say destroying the school would violate international law in response to my inquiry about the demolitions Israeli defense officials sent a statement it read the civil administration supervision unit carries out in force McDevitt is against planning and building violations this part of its commitment to maintain public order and the rule of law at its heart the conflict here is over land and so long as it's a missile to Palestinians in the most bitterly contested areas live with constant uncertainty. Our Middle East correspondent Nell reporting a reminder of our main news the 1st Americans are to be immunized against coronavirus after the Pfizer biotech vaccine was officially approved in Washington for emergency use President Trump says the u.s. Supreme Court really let his supporters down when it rejected a lawsuit which challenge the election results Iran has hanged Ruhollah Zama journalist whose reports of upset the government and talks on a post breaks a trade deal are due to enter their final hours. Now the Us tech culture dominated what is now central Mexico in the 14th 15th and 16th centuries until the arrival. Of Spanish conquerors they had a rich spiritual mythology including a gory history of slavery and human sacrifice and now archaeologists of unearthed further sections of a tower of human skulls under the center of Mexico City experts believe it's part of a temple to the Aztec gold of the sun war and human sacrifice our America's artistic records this site was found 5 years ago near the Metropolitan Cathedral in the Central in the center of Mexico City which had been built over the as tac main temple complex and it was found under the floor of a 3 story colonial house which is being restored now imagine and around well around 5 meters across with the walls made of skulls cemented in all looking inwards towards the center and so far they've escalated several sections of this tower and in around $500.00 skulls including the latest set now which is which was around a 120 skulls it's a skull rock they've been found before in Aztec archaeological finds and they were used by the Aztecs to display the severed heads of sacrificial victims usually there on wooden poles pushed through the side of the skulls but this one is made as a wall in a tower now the big question has been is you know what was the purpose of these skull rocks and some archaeology archaeologists believe they were used to show off the might of the Aztecs so friends and even enemies would be invited into the city to be cowed by the display of heads in various stages of decomposition but there is also a suggestion that this may be the main skull rock of the temple complex and it could have been built to display that is it was like a public record. Your accounting of all the sacrifices at the temple of the Son of God and sacrifice the main big God of the Aztecs we create our Americas as a canvas to a remarkable discovery underneath the center of Mexico City you're listening to Weekend from the b.b.c. World Service the latest New Year's isn't just. Support for k.q.e.d. Comes from European sleep works offering mattresses and bedding made from natural materials and free of harmful chemicals it's cotton latex and wool components are fully certified by one of the world's leading ecological testing facilities details online at sleep Works dot com Good evening I'm Jeanne Marie here with you until 5 o'clock Saturday morning we have another half an hour of the b.b.c. World Service coming up in just a few moments and then stay with us at $1230.00 for the California report today's show is the story of how pot brownies brought some relief during the Aids epidemic as we traveled back to a time when the world was facing another public health crisis that's tomorrow morning at 1230 The California Report magazine here on 88.5. Francisco and 89.3. Highland Sacramento for the latest information and updates about the coronavirus.
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