Evening with Cynthia Nixon, she is directing not starring, in the play rashida speaking. Its hard to get rid of people today with all the tricks that Human Resources could pull out of their hat and superficial laws about harrisment and with all that resentment she has inside of her, a lot of tricks pulled from that particular hat. The race card you mean. You dont have to say that. Ooh, okay you understand . I guess my mother thought she was training me to be an actress but i think she was likely at her heart a director because she taught me to see the whole picture. I think once youve had so many years as an actress as i have you get to see it from the inside which is useful. Rose Tshering Tobgay and Cynthia Nixon when we continue. And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose Tshering Tobgay is here, the Prime Minister of bhutan. He is the second person to hold the post since 2008. He led bhutans first Opposition Party before elected in 2013, now working to steer his country through its transition to democracy. The himalayan kingdom is praised worldwise for measuring success according to Gross National happiness rather than Gross Domestic Product. Its also one to have the leading countries in environmental conservation. Its constitutional mandates of 60 of National Forests be protected in perpetuity as bhutan seeks to modernize its government, it is being challenged to find a balance of pursuit of happiness and Economic Growth. Im pleased to have Tshering Tobgay at the table and we agreed the next time would be in bhutan. So welcome. Thank you charlie. Rose bhutan, for many it has the image of the himalayas, china india, and for some a kind of a shang ray la, but its much different than that. It is kind of a shangrila9÷mkdvym tju those who havent been there because its in the mountains, tucked away in the himalayas. Were not just one big monastery. Were not all monks. We are a people. All of the countries in the himalayas the beauty of our country is it rises very quickly from about 100 meters above sea level all the way to 7,500 meters above sea level in a very short span of time. Rose population of about 750,000. Thats about eight football stadiums. So its not much. But its spread throughout the country, and our country is divided by very tall mountains, narrow valleys. So we do have problems getting from place to place. The country itself is about 30,000 kilometers, a little bigger than maryland. Rose most of the people are buddhists . Most are buddhists and it is the state religion and we are the last surviving mahiana buddhist country in the world. There are many kingdoms along the himalayas, million practicing mahiana or tibetan buddhism and we are the last surviving nation whose state religion is mamiana buddhism. Feudal till about 1933. And then the third king abolished the system. Rose first roads in 62. Yes, in 61, we started constructing our first road about three years before i was born. Charlie my mother worked on this road. The entire country had to come together because now we have 750,000 people, so, at that time, we must have had about 600,000 people 500,000 people, and our entire population had to come and work on the road so my mother was one of them. As most of our parents. Rose your dad was a soldier. Yes. Rose but you were educated in the united states. I was educated in india first, then i did my high school in bhutan, won a scholarship to study engineering in america. I wrote to the best ten colleges, ten engineering colleges and i wrote to the university of pittsburgh because, at that Time Pittsburgh was voted the most livable city by thyme time magazine. Rose city of three rivers. A beautiful city. I returned much later to cambridge massachusetts. Rose to get your masters. Yes. Rose then you went back. I went back after my college, my engineering degree, i studied mechanical engineering. Most bhutanese, in fact almost all of us after college, regardless of where we studied weve always gone back. I joined the Civil Service. Rose working in education . Working in education, focusing on vocational training. Then i got a degree in public administration. Rose then you felt the lure of politics. I didnt feel the lure of politics. Nobody in bhutan felt the lure of politics laughter you mentioned, charlie, we are in transition. We are not in transition. We are full democracy with democratic institutions. We are a vibrant democracy. The transition took place in the 30 years leading up to 2008 when democracy was established. Rose how was that . Our fourth king very gradually he was training us in the principles of democracy, in the principles of governance and he devolved power and authority from the throne to the people step by step gradually and it was only till sometime in 2005 we heard about democracy 2006 we knew he was serious. Bibi 2006 the fourth king abdicated in favor of his son who is the king now. Rose the fifth king. And the entire country was unhappy. Rose so why did he do this . Who educated him . Who informed him . Who influenced him to create a Constitutional Monarchy . Well rose this is the fourth king. What he told the people repeatedly is that no one person can be guaranteed to be good for the country and, for the longterm interest of the country and the people, we have to accept democracy. We really didnt want democracy. I didnt want democracy. Our country was doing very well. We had social progress, inc. Mental, very incremental, very gradual, deliberate growth, our culture was vibrant. We had opportunities to take part in the decisionmaking process. We had the rule of law. Everything was very optimistic we were all very hopeful, but he insisted we had to have democracy but the people were really against the idea. He said, look, im serious, we have to have democracy and for those of you who feel that you can serve in this capacity, please step forward and that was when, in fact, it was february 2007 i resigned from my job in the Civil Service and entered politics not because i felt the draw of poll six but i felt a politics but i felt a sense of service. Rose so you went from being a Civil Servant. Yes. Rose to being a political player. Well, it was a transition from being a Civil Servant to being somebody who is absolutely lost. We have no idea of the politics who incidentally had been in harvard before but studying public administration. Studied negotiations and economics and all that. I didnt it didnt occur to me that i should study fundraising and Campaign Organization and management and Political Party organization. So there were many months i was absolutely clueless on how to go about my job and that showed in the election. Rose how many members in the Opposition Party . We got a whallopping five. laughter so the National Assembly has 47 members and we ended up with two. Rose then in the next election . I was made Opposition Leader by my party. I think because i joined the party first, i had my colleague so we spent five years in opposition and the ruling party had 45 members. Rose well talk about the 2013 election more. Tell me more about the royal family. Its pronounced is it wunchuks phonetic . Yes. Rose the sister of the president came, she went to stanford, then i think harvard. Yes. Rose a lot of people have gone and gotten western educations and come back whether the royal family or people like you, true . Yes. Rose and they come back because they love the place. Well, we love our country. We love our royal family. I think many of us know about the sacrifices that our parents have made for our country, and all of us are very aware of the sacrifices that our kings have made for our country. Our kings by the way, dont have any property. They have dedicated their lives for the service of the country and the people. Our fourth king became king when he was 16 in 1972. He inherited a country that was impoverished and helped to develop the people, obviously, he wanted to have an economy going again obviously. But he refused to compromise the integrity of our environment and he refused to cut the forest or mine minerals. Rose 70 of the country is forest. 71. Rose 71 . 71pointsomething. Rose i actually read 72 but i was rounding it off. It has to be more than 65 . The constitution requires 60 forest, we have 72 . Rose so you have clean air. 72 of our land is forest and is pristine forest. A lot of it is pristine. More importantly much of the forest, in fact all of it, ranges quickly from dense hot, humid, subtropical jungles through cool, temperate forests all the way to alpine forests and pastures, and all this happens within a very short distance as the crow flies 25 kilometers as the crow flies, 30. And yes, we have very clean air. Rose well talk about that too, because conservation is a very important part of what you believe in and well talk about that and how you do that. Things are changing there. The Gross Domestic Product is a bit more than a billion dollars . A billion point seven. Rose almost 2 billion. 1. 7 billion. Rose and the principle industry is hydroelectric power . Yes and subsistence farming. About 500 billionaires in america, i read recently. Rose and your Gross Domestic Product is 1. 7 billion. But we dont feel poor. Rose because . Because all our children are given Free Education. Free primary free secondary education. Rose free healthcare. Good colleges and those who make it to college are given free college education. They have to work hard. We have free healthcare free medicine, free consultations. Economically, yeah, i mean, we can do more but so far so good. However, we have increasing unemployment now. Rose you talk about unemployment. You talk about the debt. You talk about corruption. I mean, so you have modern problems. Yes. Its not shangrila. Rose its not shangrila. Yes. Rose but when you campaign i mean, you made small promises clear promises. Rose clear small promises. Yes. Rose and you basically said to them, as i understand it, yes, gross happiness is a good idea Gross National happiness is a good idea snoop and thats the standard and says something about our culture, but we also have to be very real, we have to look at our problems work hard and we have to create a place where others want to come and invest in for our own economic future. Yes. Gross National Happiness is a Development Philosophy articulated by our kings. Rose right. Will have to, our fourth king has said Gross National happiness is more important than Gross National product, what you said during introduction. Our current king said Gross National happiness is development of values. Gross national happen necessary is carefully balancing material growth, which is very important, Economic Growth, which is important, this is important but balancing Economic Growth with inclusiveness, social progress, with culture, with preservation of environment all within the framework of good governance, that takes hard work. Rose globalization is a good thing for bhutan . Necessary. Rose sessional . Essential. And if used well, good. Rose so how will you change your country . How will i change my country . Charlie, my job is to serve my country, it is not to change it. Rose well, if you have problems, like unemployment. Problems like corruption. If you have problems like the rupi shortage. Your job is to change corruption, change poverty, change lets get things in perspective. We have unemployment problems but our Unemployment Rate is 2. 6 . Rose and here its 5 to 6 . Our problem is youth unemployment which is about 9. 6 . Youth unemployment. So we need to create jobs we need to have industries, we need to have investment to create jobs for them. So while this is a problem, i acknowledge it as a problem and i dont want to see a single bhutanese boy or girl unemployed, but we also have to be deliberate in the type of industries we create, the type of jobs that we create. Corruption is not a problem more than it is a risk. Rose so youre saying its not that its there, its that it could be there. It is there but not at levels that most people are most people experience. In International Corruption index, perception index, we rank number 30, which is we can do better than that yeah . We should climb up the ladder. But it isnt really a problem. It is potentially a problem. A problem that will keep the pouri Nour Mohammadi and perpetuate a growing gap between the income. Rose where are you on the perception of happiness . Im not sure how bhutan is measured. In fact, bhutan is not measured internationally in happiness. We have done our own surveys. In 2010 we surveyed Something Like 7,500 people and did a very very comprehensive survey. Rose what did you find . Zero to one scale, one being very happy we ranked ourselves. 743. So not too bad. Rose but you were saying to the people of bhutan, we have to work hard. Yes. Rose and to say that to them, you must be suggesting they have not worked hard enough and they may have become complacent. Yes, we cant take things for granted. Our economy is small but we have been given Everything Health education, infrastructure, social security, our culture, our environment, and you mentioned conservation, which is very important. We have to work to keep we have to work hard to ensure that our culture is vibrant. We have to work hard to ensure that our environment is protected. But most importantly, we have to work hard to ensure that our future generations also enjoy Free Education and free healthcare and that we have an economy that can support all this. Rose yearold where would you like to see your country in ten years . Selfreliant, economically selfreliant but selfreliant in a manner that our economy is green and sustainable. Rose youre Carbon Neutral now . Oh, were carbon negative. Rose carbon negative yes laughter from estimates we sequester 3 million tons of carbon a year and generate only 1. 5 million tons of carbon a year. And the carbon we generate is from farming most of it is from agriculture, farming and livestock. Rose thats where you generate the carbon. Yeah, most of it. Rose what can you do about the poverty . Create jobs. Most of our poverty is in the rural areas. So improve agriculture. Improving agriculture and productivity. Were trying to promote natural farming, promote organic farming so our farmers can get more money, improve their income. In the urban areas, our young boys and girls who have completed schools and colleges, we have to get them good jobs. Rose what is the program you have with the Worldwide Life Fund . Called bhutan for life. Rose whats that . 72 of our country, as you know is under forest cover. The constitution requires 60 . We declare we will be Carbon Neutral for all time to come. More than half our country, 51 of our country is protected as national parks, wildlife sanctuaries, nature reserves and we have ten of these protected areas, but the beauty of bhutan is that all these protected areas are interconnected with biological corridors. Rose biological corridors. Yes. Rose whats that . Undisturbed tracts of land where animals and birds can migrate and go from park to park rather than being isolated in one particular area. So when we say more than half our country is protected, it means animals can traverse the entire length and breadth of our country. Tigers for instance, have been spotted at 100 meters above sea level in the south in the jungles, and tigers have been spotted at 4,000 4,200 meters above sea level. Rose what kind of tigers . Oyal bengal tigers. And our camera traps have spotted tigers with cubs. Rose wow. So now we need to protect all this. Rose by forestation . We have 700 species of birds in our country, in the small country and the white bell bellied herron theres only about 150 in the world. In bhutan weve counted every one and there are only 29. So we have to protect our ecological system. Its very rich in biodiversity and it is pristine. We have to protect it. The government spends about 3 million per year for Park Management but thats not enough. Rose your argument is this ought to be an attractive thing to create, to have a world like this thats green and that has these advantages for business to come to. Its not for business. Thats the bonus. Our kings have given us a very rich environment. We have to enjoy this environment and we must do our part to nurture it and hand it over to the future generations, not just for our future generations but for the world. This is a natural asset, a Natural Resource that belongs to the world. Now, we have competing demands. We mentioned employment, economy, schools, hospitals, and the government is spending about 3 million a year to manage the parks. We need more. We need Something Like 10 million. We know that in about five years revenues from other parts of the economy hydropower, especially, well be able to raise en ugh revenue to finance the whole management of our parks. So we need a Transition Fund and bhutan for