Human rights and he suggested today there are war crimes going on. Well talk to him about that. How can we take pride of the achievements of humanity in the 21st century when our newspapers, the internet, on your show you all are exposed to the suffering at an extreme scale, and how could we not be moved . And as you rightly suggested, its not just limited to one particular location but, because we see other crimes being committed in many parts of the world, these are allegations in most part that have to be proven in court. But what does it say about us . Rose a new film called moonlight is getting rave reviews at film festivals, directed by Barry Jenkins, stars trevante rhodes, andree holland and Naomie Harris. There is a performance of masculinity that the world is projected at you always. This is how a man walks, talks speaks to another man, speaks to another becomes hard to selfidentify, the more youre receiving sort of like both positive and negative reinforcement of what masculinity should look like. Rose we conclude this evening with lauryn hill performing for the first time rebel, i find it hard to say, right here in our studios. Stand up and live rose the bat toll retake mosul. The human rights commerges on the crisis in aleppo, the moonlight film and lauryn hill performance, when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose we begin overseas where iraqi and kurdish troops are pushing towards i. S. I. S. Positions in and around the city of mosul. One american serviceman had been killed by a roadside bomb and i. S. I. S. Fighters are resorting to suicide attacks in an effort to slow the advance. Today as many as 50 i. S. I. S. Fighters attack the city of kirkuk as a diversion. Holly williams and her crew raced to the scene. I. S. I. S. Infiltrated kirkuk overnight and laid siege to neighborhoods across the city. gunfire we were this kurdish s. W. A. T. Team today as they fought a gun battle with i. S. I. S. The surprise attack started with multiple suicide bombings before the extremists hold up inside buildings, including this house under construction. We know there are between six to eight i. S. I. S. In that building. Inside that building over there . Yes. On the streets below, the bodies of dead i. S. I. S. Extremists as well as local residents who couldnt move for fear of being shot. The s. W. A. T. Team began firing tear gas canister, throwing up a smoke screen before sending a team into the building. So they have been shooting at the building and also firing tear gas canisters, and now the assault team is about to go in. rapid gunfire but as they approached, they came under fire and one of them was hit. The one of the s. W. A. T. Team was injured, they had to pull back, and now theyre trying to pin the i. S. I. S. Gunmen down inside the building. Commander muhamad is from kirkuk and told us hell fight i. S. I. S. Until every last one of the extremists is dead. Whats in their heads . War and revenge. Revenge, he said, for the mosul offensive. Rose joining me from Northern Iraq is Holly Williams of cbs news. Thank you, holly. Whats happening in the battle against mosul as Kurdish Peshmerga troops march toward there and the Prime Minister of iraq says theyre going faster than he expected. Prime minister Haider Al Abadi said the offensive is progressing faster than expected. I dont know how fast he expected it to go, but ive spent most of this week on the front line and i can tell you its going pretty slowly. Both Kurdish Forces and iraqi forces are taking back villages and towns on the outskirts of mosul, but it is very slow going. Theyre up against roadside bombs. Theyre up against suicide car bombers, bombs, cars and trucks laden with explosives and driven at high speeds toward the front line. Some of the i. S. I. S. Fighters in these villages are willing to fight to the death. This, after all, is a death cult that many people join because, you know, they want to become a martyr. And even if i. S. I. S. Runs away from some of those vegs, when the kurdish and iraqi forces get there, they find the buildings, the houses in those villages rigged with homemade bombs, with explosives, and they have to clear those before they can move on. So they have taken back a number of villages and towns, but it is pretty slow going. Rose i mentioned peshmerga. Who else is involved in this fight . Well, its the kurdish and iraqi forces, so far. When things begin to heat up and move towards mosul city itself, i think well see the participation of more local sunni militias. Then you have iraqs shiite militias. Now, they have been very effective in defeating i. S. I. S. In other parts of country, but theyre also accused of carrying out atrocities of exacting, you know, retribution on local sunni muslim populations. Now, my understanding at this point is that they are not going to go into mosul city. They are going to fight on the southwest edge of the city. Rose whats happening to the people inside mosul . Well, we know very little. There are around, you know, a million residents inside mosul. I. S. I. S. Tried to stop them communicating two the outside world. Its prevented them from leaving. Mobile phones are banned. Some people are getting out. They often have very little intelligence. They can say whats happening in their neighborhood. They can talk about friends and neighborhoods who may have been imprisoned or tortured or executed, but they dont necessarily have intelligence about the big picture. Interestingly, earlier this week, i. S. I. S. Put out a propaganda video claiming to show life kind of going on as normal inside mosul with street scenes, people on the street, market stalls, that kind of thing, but they also put out a couple of execution videos for mosul, barbaric execution videos weve seen. From i. S. I. S. Were reminded thats part of normal life under i. S. I. S. In mosul. Rose there are also reports i. S. I. S. Is using human shields. The United Nations has said it has information that several hundred families have been taken by i. S. I. S. And are specifically being used as human shields. We cant confirm that but we can say the million or so civilians inside mosul are all potentially human shields because i. S. I. S. Is preventing them from leaving. Remember, the fighting weve seen so far has been on the outskirts of mosul and most of those towns and villages are uninhabited. The residents left two years ago when i. S. I. S. Blitzed across Northern Iraq, yet its still slow going. Imagine how much more difficult its going to be when the kurdish and iraqi forces get into mosul city itself, which is a denselypacked urban area and theyre fighting street to street and u. S. Coalition airstrikes will be much more difficult because of the risk of mass civilian casualties. Rose understanding that, how well as american and Coalition Air power been used so far in the advance as well as artillery . I think its been instrumental. You know, weve seen air strikes that have taken out i. S. I. S. Vehicles, that have taken out buildings, that are being used by i. S. I. S. There is no doubt it has enormous impact on the fight against i. S. I. S. Earlier this week, were in a village and this is very typical i. S. I. S. Had built a network of tunnels under that village where they were hiding out. The u. S. Coalition had intelligence that was the case, and they managed to hit those tunnels with four different airstrikes. So their normsly useful. Interestingly today, the peshmerga, the Kurdish Forces put out a statement saying the u. S. Coalition airstrikes hadnt been as useful as they hoped in the fight against i. S. I. S. To the north of mosul. Rose how many directions are they advancing on mosul . Certainly from the north, they said. I assume from the east. Yeah, most of the fighting is there the north, east and south. So we have iraqi forces closing in from the south. On the east, its a mixture of iraqi and Kurdish Forces and, from the north, mainly Kurdish Forces. Rose is there anyonict taking place between the forces opposing i. S. I. S. In mosul in terms of they come from different Strategic Interests and different cultural and historical backgrounds . Well, as you know, there are very, very deep divisions along ethnic and religious lines in iraq. So far during this offensive, im not aware of any infighting. But there has in recent months been fighting between the shiite militias and Kurdish Forces, both ostensibly i. S. I. S. But joes ling for positions inside iraq. The big fear is during the offensive inside mosul and perhaps after i. S. I. S. Has been defeated, those different groups come into conflict with each other. Rose mosul is primarily a sunni city or not . That is correct. Its predominantly a Sunni Muslim Arab city. Rose how long do they think the battle will last . I dont know the answer to that and i dont think anybody knows the answer to that. There are a whole loft variables there. First of all, what is i. S. I. S. Going to do . We think they have fewer than 5,000 fighters in the city. Are they going to and stay and fight to the death or run away . Thats clearly a big factor. Secondly, think about the iraqi forces because theyre going to be the driving force, as far as we understand it, inside mosul city. Now, iraqi soldiers ran away two years ago when i. S. I. S. Blitzed its way across Northern Iraq. Since then the u. S. Military says they have been retrained, its an entirely new army and theyre ready to take on i. S. I. S. Lets see if thats true in this battle for mosul. The other important factor is the people of mosul themselves, what are they going to do . When i. S. I. S. First took mosul, many residents were on the streets cheering them on because it is a redocumently sunni sums city and most of the residents were fed up with the Iraqi Government in baghdad dom united by shiite muslims. Have they changed their minds . Do they no longer see i. S. I. S. As revolutionaries, as heros, and will they rise up against i. S. I. S. During this offensive . Rose there has been one american casualty. What is the american presence on the ground and what is the risk to them . Well, thats a very interesting question. When you talk to officers in the u. S. Military, they insist that their role during this offensive is to advise and assist the iraqis and that the iraqis directing this offensive and that the americans and the u. S. Coalition is simply there to help. Certainly, thats what theyre doing with airstrikes, thats what theyre doing with artillery based south of molds thats being use mosul being used to hit i. S. I. S. However, we have seen american troops close to the front line, for instance north of mosul. They dont want to be captured on camera or talk to us but they are there. We actually saw other Coalition Troops from a european country firing on i. S. I. S. From that front line. Rose so they are on the front line and exposed. You know, the u. S. Military stresses that they are not in combat roles, but this is still a combat environment and its dangerous. Rose they also acknowledge they will be defensive and engage in combat if they have to. Im sure thats the kay. Rose finally, there is the question of where is albaghdadi . Is there any sense of who is running the i. S. I. S. Troops inside of mosul . You know, thats so mysterious, and albaghdadis whereabouts are also mysterious. You know, the u. S. Military told us that they have intelligence that some i. S. I. S. Leaders and their families are fleeing mosul already ahead of this offensive and heading west toward syria, toward some of the strong holds that i. S. I. S. Has there. Raqqa, de facto capital in syria whether that includes albaghdadi and his family, we just dont know. Rose but we can tell whether they have closed the route from mosul which has been a primary route from mosul to raqqa. That is still open for them to flee . They still have territory that connects those two cities. Thats correct. Rose Holly Williams, cbs news. Back in a moment. Stay with us. Rose Zeid Raad Al Hussein is here, u. N. High commissioner for human rights. He addressed the Human Rights Council in a special session friday about the ongoing crisis in aleppo calling the city a slaughter house. With Coalition Forces advancing in mosul against i. S. I. S. , also warned of the possibility of human shields. I am pleased to have him back on the program. Welcome. Thank you very much. Rose you said that the bombardment of aleppo constitutes crimes of an historic proportion. Tell me whats happening and why it brings such strong language. Well, even on the scale of the atrocities we have witnessed in syria not just in syria, also in iraq, its almost one battle space, after all. The fact that you have 275,000 or so people hemmed in, having endured the war for a number of years now and then being subjected to this bombing which seems to be utterly indiscriminate, bakeries, hospitals, schools, almost nowhere is safe in eastern aleppo. Now, of course, being put in a situation where they have to make choices. But the main point, charlie, is that they have to make the choice. If they want to leave, we should be able to bring them out. If they want to stay, we should be able to at least afford them some fort some form of protection. If they want to leave and return, that should be possible as well. Rose weve seen the hoer Pacific Pictures of children stunned by the toll of war. Absolutely disgraceful. How can we take pride of the achievements of humanity in the 21st century when in the newspapers, the internet, on your show, we all are exposed to these the suffering at an extreme scale. And how could we not be moved . And as you rightly suggested, its not just limited to one particular location, but because we see other crimes being committed in many parts of the world, these allegations, in most part that have to be proven in court, but what does it say about us . Rose why are we impotent . Well, i think, at the moment, we seem to have completely lost our way. My interpretation is that the narrowest agendas are eclipsingg the interests of the broader whole. There is a sort of greed in us, the pursuit of the i dont know if you can describe it as strategic, but it seems to be razor thin, and it comes at the expense of communities, of cultures of people around the world and its difficult to explain. Rose lets set the stage. Aleppo, where is it in syria . Its in the north sort of western quadrant and not far from the turkish border. Rose second largest city damascus. Thats right. Rose there is the east and the west. Thats right. Rose the west is occupied by the regime. Thats right. Rose the east is go ahead. Yes, thats right. Rose and the east is occupied primarily by forces opposed to the regime. Thats right. Rose who are they . Well, its a collection of armed groups and, of course, youve heard the russians make the argument that parts of this opposition, alnusra, the ideological twin of i. S. I. L and they enjoy the support of the western and regional powers. Rose is that true . To the certain extent, yes. To a certain extent, that is the case. But what we have seen in eastern aleppo and we have also condemned the use of mortars, these mortars that have incendiary sort of heads to them. The use of these by the armed groups. But what weve seen recently is that the vast majority of casualties are as a result of the aerial bombing by the Syrian Air Force together with its allies, of course. Rose the Russian Air Force and Syrian Air Force are doing the bombing. Thats right. Rose would sanctions be appropriate now . Would they have an impact now . Or would they cause either forces to do Something Different or to restrain themselves or to come to some kind of humanitarian effort . Well, i think the point that i was trying to make earlier today before the Human Rights Council is that, whatever the position of either side or the three sides or the five sides in this chess game, the level and degree of human suffering insuring now needs to be surely now needs to be at the forefront of everyones mind. Whatever advantage can be gained by taking or defending aleppo, this must be outweighed now by the pounding of flesh and blood that has occurred over the last few days that needs to now stop. We have a pause. We have to hope that this pause is now lengthened and that this opens the way to some now very concerted effort to bring this war eventually to an end. Surely, you cannot hope to have a sort of stable that part of the mediterranean, at least, but beyond that, if this continues in the same way and then we have iraq next door, of course. Rose this would not be happening without the Russian Support of assad. I think the russians stated repeatedly that theyre taking every measure to avoid civilian casualties and civilian casualties as a result of aerial operations, military operations. In every case, whether the bombings we see in yemen or the bombing weve seen in afghanistan when the u. S. Forces attacked the m. S. F. Hospital or in syria or in every case, we ask for a proper investigation where we believe the targeting to be indiscriminate and possibly a war crime, and if it was intentional then maybe a crime against humanity, then surely there must be a proper investigation and follow through with that. And this is what we need to do. Rose you calling it war crimes has created a response in terms of people take note, its been in newspapers and online all day today. Yes. Rose what you have said. What was the reaction at the United Nations . Well, i think there is a sort of very lively debate that took place in geneva today on this issue, and i havent seen the detailed responses, but i can imagine that the reactions would be quite strong. I have no reser