A lot of was, and, before that, i thought, you know, im different from everybody else so i need to drink a lot to bring myself down to their level and then i realized, oh, no, no, no, were all in the same boat, youre just not paddling. Rose jimmy iovine, allen hughes and jason isbell, when we continue. And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose jimmy iovine and dr. Dre are two of the most successful figures in the Music Industry. Iovine began as a sound engineer and record producer, worked with john lennon, Bruce Springsteen and u two before starting his own record label, a membe he ane collaborated over the next two decades in. 2014 their company was sold to apple for 3 billion in the largest acquisition deal in that companys history. A new fourpart hbo documentary seriesy director allen hughes follows the careers of iovine and dre including their lucrative partnership. Heres the trailer for tournament documentary. Tournament for the defiant ones. Check, check. Jimmy and dr. Dre. Is the levitator, dre is the own variety. I need something more impressive. You taught me a work ethic. Had to work harder than the next guy just to do as good as the next guy. A friend of mine put together two, i started doing this thing. I just want to see the studio. I was done. I got to find great producers, and i produced them. This is a do or die album. My body is in this record. Im playing it for everybody. For some reason everybodys turning me down. They were afraid to deal with the people. Aint got no love for dr. Dre and snoop dogg crossed the line of decency. All i remember is dre came in to play. Who recorded this, he said . I said, me. Jimmy was, like, i want to gets you guys on the corps of the Rolling Stone magazine. You are making keep. Making keep. The Rolling Stone magazine, i want to be on the source magazine cover, that is hiphop supremacy. I never had that many white people come to me in my whole life. Fast forward to this is jimmy iovine, holy bleep dr. Dre just walked in. Im blown bleep away. Jimmy iovine was walking up the beach and i told him my lawyer he was producing something. Out of the blue, sneakers. All kinds of different sneakers. We could call it beats. Everything ive done in my career, ive always been underestimated. Its a powerful thing. Its got a lot of fire power. At the beginning, making tailwind instead of head wind. Rose pleased to have jimmy iovine and allen hughes at this table, welcome. A fourpart movie made about you and dr. Dre. How about that. Why did you decide to make this movie . Ive known both men over 25 years separately before they met each other. Ive always known jimmys been such a deerchg personality behind the scenes. Dres already a rock star. I said, this would be interesting to explore this partnership especially after beats. That was unbelievable. We started shooting this before that deal happened and it almost blue up. Rose what is it he has thatsmade him who he is in that business . He has this intense focus ive never ever seen in yen one who where hes able to tune everything out except for beautiful what hes operating for creatively. Jimmy, its almost scary how focused he can get. Rose perfectionism some call it, sir. Well, dre is a perfectionist. Im sort of a rose dont go selfdeprecating here. laughter no, i have hue multibut im not humble i have humility but im not humble. Dre and i have been together since 1990. Its a story about two guys both from racially challenged neighborhoods and we come up the way i was a recording engineer, so was he, we produced some people and met in the scope. The fact we were able to Stay Together through some of the most difficult times and things that happened in the entertainment business in the 90s, and we stayed together through the 2000s and we started beats as a relief from the pain to have record industry. Rose how did you decide headphones was where you should go. Dre was unhappy with the sound of headphones at the time. They were all made sort of for reference. A lot of headphones were made just to reference music and to see if what was on tape on the file is exactly what youre hearing. We made head phone for entertainment. Musicians in the studios, if you go to a kanye west or Paul Mccartney studio, theyre going to play their music on great sounding speakers. So we wanted to make headphones rose that sounded like great sounding speakers. Yeah. Rose how did you to that . A lot of tuning and work and people who told us we couldnt do that like audio files. Everything, people told us we couldnt do, im sure same is true for you. We stayed together, it was an incredible experience, and now we sell for apple and this is an incredible experience. Rose but you have an ear. You have a taste in music. You cant just be anybody and say this is whats going to make it happen. No, you cant. You have to have a gut. Rose were you born with a gut . No, i wasnt born with it. I know exactly when it happened. I came out of high school, went through a silly college, didnt work out. Didnt work out in high school, hated every second. Went to college because i knew the only thing i could hate worse than high school was vietnam. Got a job in a Recording Studio and, somehow or another well, i tell you how it happened, one Easter Sunday my boss called me up and said i want you to come in on Easter Sunday and answer the phone. Im italian catholic, live at home with my mom, im 19 years old. She thought, you guys are crazy, youre not going to work today, your aunts, uncles, its not happening. I said, im going to work. Ive got a job and im going to work. So i go, and john lennon was in there and they all started laughing and said we just wanted to see if you would come in today. We have a slot open in that chair right there that we want you to fill. From that i got Bruce Springsteen on born to run and produced patty smiths album. So in four years i worked with three of the greatest minds in Popular Culture in the last hundred years. Three of the greatest. Possibly top five or top ten, you know. Theyre incredible people. Thats what i want to say. Theyre incredible people. That was my college jairks and i learned a lot about taste. I learned a lot about how to look at talent, how to treat talent and experience it. Rose tell me how you look at talent and treat talent. You learn one thing when you work with people that great, which side of the glass is more important. You learn that immediately. You know theyre more talented than you, end of story. Rose didnt take you lock to figure that out. No. I went through the rest of my life like that. Then you become of service and you learn and you help them make their record and you care about their music as much as they do, because i felt, what do i have for these people except that . Rose heres what youve said, i think the Rolling Stones in 2012, im the chairman of moving Popular Culture around. I dont know how to do it. I just learned how to do it. The three things, producing interscope, the company and the beat all connect in sound. Its about listening and listening to people speak. Listening is what makes the difference, isnt it . Big time. Jimmys a great listener. You have to care who you listen to. Rose got to listen to the right people. Thats what i said earlier. He knows how to tune the other stuff out. Rose the other thing thats interesting, i was up to boston with the u2 concert and did an interview with bono before the concert, the last time i saw you was at a u2 concert. Probably. Rose you left them. They burned me to the ground. 18 months in the studio, five studios going, a live album, studio album. These are four irish guys that dont quit, you know. I just felt like, you know what . I had my son, i was out 16 hours a day working. I said, you know what . My friend david started a Record Company, and the ten years before that we had been having lunch all the time and hanging out. I knew nothing about business, but he taught me the arc and the culture and the art of business. So i had a feel going and i said, david, can i start a Record Company . He said, absolutely, of course you can. I said, okay. I asked him a few questions here and there. He offered to help me start it. Then atlanta came and he said go to your thing, god speed. He taught me how to jump from a creative guy to a Creative Business person. Rose what david has and repeats to me what others have said, you have taste and judgment. Yes. And the shortest distance between here and there. Rose meaning what . Meaning, if you ask him a question, he goes right for it. The answer is clear, abundantly clearenned always a fact. Rose what else did you need to make this film . Youve got dr. Dre, the history in a fascinating business, music. Mmhmm. Rose what else do you bring into this thing some. Well, i can only bring my ability of cinema because im not by nature a documentarian, and the sense of urgency, because a lot of people, i love watching documentaries. Rose hottest thing going now. It is now. Most people look at documentaries like its eating your vegetables. Rose good for you. Yeah. My mother, shes not going to sit around the tube unless its grabbing her attention. So i brought to it all the powers of cinema i could and the urgency. Rose you have all the illustrations and sounds you can use. Yes. Rose that gets them. Thats why its great to be with hbo. They get it, have always gotten it. Rose and willing to spend for it. Willing to spend what it takes to do it. Rose you and dr. Dre have been together how long . 25 years. We trust each others instincts. In a room together, ill say dres right and he feels that way about me, so whoever wants it more gets it. Rose and its been successful for you, the fact you have allowed that to happen . Its a miracle relationship. Rose a miracle. Yeah. Because we fit together. The 90s were very difficult at interscope records. The 90s had a lot of violence, a lot of things happen, a lot of tragedy, in our Record Company. You know, we got thrown out of time warner because of lyrics. You know, time warner is in the documentary. Time warner offered interscope 150 million to get rid of death row and i wouldnt do it. Rose steve ross . No, michael fukes. Rose at hbo. No, time warner. Joey was the c. E. O. Rose the interesting thing is how soon you recognized rap and the possibilities of rap. Early, late . No, i i was a rock and roll guy. Rose right. So i heard a lot of rap records. The first thing i was into was public enemy opened up for u2. I didnt like the sound of the records. So dre came into my office with john mcclain. Rose dre and who is this. Suge knight. I didnt like the way hiphop was sounding at that point. This guys record counted unique and powerful sounded unique and as powerful as pink floyd. I said, who engineered this for you . He said, i did. I said, who produced it . I said, i did. I said, this guy will define interscope. I felt it that moment. I learned from hiphop with those i learned hiphop from those guys. Im not rick ruben but i can learn. Rose rick ruben is one of the great record producers of all time. He started in hiphop and then broke into rock and roll. These guys were in the early days. What i saw which wasnt happening, i said, these guys, all their deals are horrible, no one thinks it could travel, this music could go to europe and china. So interscope spent like it was u2. We got behind it like you saw on that trailer, we got them on the cover of Rolling Stone. You know, we got them on the top 40 radio in america. We got them all throughout europe, and what happened was it exploded. I mean, in the positive sense. I mean, it got me in a little bit of trouble, too, because what happened was the senators and the congressmens kids were on radio, now, and all of a sudden we became the devil and William Bennett and Lawrence Tucker and Bob Lieberman and dole all came out after interscope. Rose you were corrupting their kids . Same way with the beatles. Its all nonsense. But jerry lavine at that point said to me, look, we have the cable bill, and this is in the documentary, we have the cable bill and i have to sacrifice something. He said, i think i have to sacrifice you guys. I said, thats fine with me. Rose and leveled with you and said this is whats happening. 100 straight up. Rose this is Bruce Springsteen talking about jimmys work ethic. When i was growing up, the way people were, you had no choice but to work really hard or you would get fired, and you couldnt wait for it to end. You had two kinds of guys we ran into at that time. They were the kinds of guys that wanted to go home at 5 00, and their interest in what you were doing didnt exceed the normal demands of the day for them, and there are guys that never left because when were you tried to push the boundaries on things you wanted to be surround bid people who believed in what you were doing. I never witnessed anything like that. I never understood that. Everything i ever did in my life, i didnt want to stop doing it. I couldent hear myself with the headphones. What else is new. How old were you . 21. . Rose is that right . Yeah. He was cutting 2inch tape when they used to record on tape. Rose what did hamilton do for rap . Made mile was very powerful to the mainstream culture. They watched eminem have this battle with the other guy who saw both sides and said, oh, this is what rap is. And what happened, in hamilton, is that, oh, its on broadway, now, and its a hit. Okay . And, so, people start to understand it a little bit more. Rose whats the most interesting thing that comes out of the documentary for you . The most interesting thing, thats a tough one. Rose most interesting and insightful thing. What did you learn making this documentary . I learned a lot from them. That i take away personally . Rose yes. I said, man, when i get out of this hi feel like i have a fiveyear course from harvard in arts and business and understand people. I know what to tune out now and focus on and whats important. My mother always taught me and my brother, the number one thing is find out what your gift is, whats different and unique about you and focus on that and tune all the other out. Rose that should be the moral of every commencement speech. Yeah. Rose are you happy . Did you do the right thing selling to apple . Absolutely. I wanted to sell to app. When i met steve jobs, they were people that understood liberal arts and technology. Rose that was their star. But no one else does that. Rose yeah. Its not as easy as it sounds. Dont try it at home. So when i had to take streaming i wanted to take mainstream, i said, we cant do this on our own. I said, but apple can do this and will get it. After steve passed, i went to eddy q. And tim cook and said apple has to lead in music, its important to the artist community, you have to do this. Rose because they had shaken the Music Industry to its very foundation. Right. In a positive way. They believe in artists. They believe in poppy right. They dont have free tiers. Rose after they came in, made their huge statement about music, records were sold in a very different way, werent they . Yes, but records were being stolen in a very different way before that. Without apple and itunes thing, the piracy keeps getting bigger and bigger. People wanted a guy to get music dlijt and steve gait it to them. Rose amazon is streaming. Yes. Rose youve got spotify. Yes. Rose google. Yes. Rose heightened awareness now. Whats going to happen . The record industry is in a funny spot because netflix doesnt have a free tier as an enemy. All these services you mention have free music out there in a very elegant way. So its the labels responsibility to do something about that to help the streaming services scale. Now, on the other hand, you have the artists that are starting to believe that there is no money in the recording music business. So they go on the road and use the music to promote themselves. Then you have the billboard chart where a stream on youtube free is the same weight as a stream on spotify pay and apple pay. Thats fake news, as far as im concerned. The label is going to fix all those things. Theyve got to join in to fix these things. Rose can you do that wooed colluding . They dont need to collude. They have separate licenses. They control the music. Yeah, youtube hides behind the digital and all this stuff and say they cant take it down. They dont want to take it down. Its big business for them, so god speed. But the labels have the responsibility to get the artist on paid services for their own business, and until that harntiond people kept saying, well, we see the catalog, there is an uptick in music, yeah, but the new artists promoting tell meselves are Getting Better getting new deals that are much better than ever before. So the labels theyre all really good people, but what they have to do is try a deal because how are we and spotify and the others going to fight elegant free . You put pandora and youtube together, thats a nice meal. It may not have cloth napkins but its the same food. Thats a problem and they have to do something about it. Rose and will they . I dont know. Rose they would have to. Tim cook, adq, myself and people at apple music are committed to building a streaming service that is so good rose you know what i think . I think you and tim and e eddie are committed to trying to build the biggest Music Service that ever existed in the world. We are and we need help from the labels with this free stuff, but to do that it cant just be utility. Right now most streaming services are utilities. We have to introduce you to music and give you different music every day and say you might be interested in this, we know you, heres our algorithm and our people. Obviously, im into it, but the record Industry Needs to get together. Rose youre going to have to lead this effort . No, i cant get involved at all. Every law in the world says i cant. So i sit back at apple music and just do our job. The labels will take care of themselves. Rose the the defiant ones premieres on hbo sunday july 9. We have been talking to jimmy and dr. Dre is obviously a big part of this. Allen hughes, thank you very much. Thank y