In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come thy will be done On earth as it is and have in. Our Daily Bread every day it is expressed as is as we created. Us and it is temptation but deliver us from a man hell mary full of grace the Lord is with a lesser than among women and bless it is the fruit of the eye wall Jesus Mary. Mary Price enters in any hour of that am. I believe in God the Father Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth I believe in Jesus Christ His only Son our Lord it was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary suffered under punch as a pilot was crucified died and was buried he descended to the dead on the 3rd day He rose again ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father he will come again to judge the living and the dead I believe in. The Holy Church it is a case of forget this is the resurrection and life everlasting am. Eternal Father we offer you the body and blood soul and the vanity of your dearly beloved Son our Lord Jesus Christ etched on him for those out of the whole world. For the sake of a sour patch at mercy of us and. For the sake of his sorrowful passion and Mercy on us and on. For the sake of his sorrowful passion and Mercy on us and. For the sake of his passion on ass and. For the sake of his. Sorrowful passion amorously on us and on the whole. For the sake of this our passion. For the sake of his passion. And. For the sake of his Our passion. For the sake of his passion. And. For the sake of his sorrowful passion. And. Eternal Father we offer you the body and blood soul the divinity of your dearly beloved Son our Lord Jesus Christ. Our sins and the whole world. For the sake of a sorrowful passion. For the sake of his sorrowful passion and mercy. For the sake of his star a passion. For the sake of his sorrow passion. And. For the sake of his sorrowful passion. And. For the sake of a sorrowful passion. For the sake of his sorrowful passion. And. For the sake of this hour of the passion. For the sake of his passion. For the sake of his sorrowful passion. And on the whole. Eternal Father we offer you the body and blood soul and of that idiot your dearly beloved Son our Lord Jesus Christ it something for. Us out of whole. For the sake of a star a passion and mercy a. For the sake of the sorrowful passion and mercy of. The whole world. For the sake of his sorrowful passion embers. For the sake of his summer of passion. And. For the sake of his sorrowful passion. And on the whole. For the sake of his summer passion. For the sake of his sorrowful passion. And on the whole. For the sake of his star passion. For the sake of his summer of passion. And. For the sake of his sorrowful passion. In the. Eternal Father we offer you the body and blood soul the divinity of your dearly beloved Son our Lord Jesus Christ it's all in it or sense and of the whole world for the sake of this our passion and mercy and. For the sake of this our passion. For the sake of this our passion. For the sake of his star of passion Emerson ass and whole world for the sake of his sorrowful passion. And on the whole. For the sake of his star passion. For the sake of his sorrowful passion. For the sake of his sorrowful passion. For the sake of his sorrow passion. And. For the sake of his sorrowful passion. And the whole. Eternal Father we offer you the body and blood soul and the vanity of your dearly beloved Son our Lord Jesus Christ excellent and those of the whole world. For the sake of a sorrowful passion. For the sake of his passion. For the sake of the sorrowful passion. For the sake of passion. And. For the sake of his sorrowful passion. And. For the sake of a song or a passion. For the sake of his passion. And. For the sake of a sorrowful passion. For the sake of his passion. And. For the sake of his sorrow. And. My. Mercy and. Only immortal line. By line only immortal line. And of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Then legitimate principle for a number of reasons including deterrence and retributive justice it's not just scripture which teaches but it's 2000 years of Popes who was taught. Famously in the middle ages then she inherits checks were required by the pope to affirm the legitimacy of capital punishment principle on pain of Herod oxy that was a condition of their coming back into the church that was the hope was teaching was that to deny that capital punishment should be legitimate in principle is actually tantamount to heresy it's a heterodox doctrine paradox. Teaching. And then you find unanimity among the fathers of the church who all agree even though some of them oppose capital punishment in practice they all agree that capital punishment was was legitimate in principle and that this was scriptural as well so we have this one broken teaching for 2 millennia going back to scripture and start teaching that capital punishment is always intrinsically wrong would really undermine the entire credibility of the church absolutely it undermines everything every previous pope said everything Scripture says and so on and so forth in which case if you if the church started to teach that chapel punishment was intrinsically wrong you'd have to ask well how do we know that that's correct if the church could be wrong for 2000 years about something so important then she could be wrong but I think that there's a lot more at stake in this issue than just capital punishment itself that's right now I mean this is. You look at the biblical material prior to the Mosaic code you know you've got it in the title of your book in fact in Genesis 96 you have what appears to be a statement of the legitimacy of capital punishment the mosaic code has probably 20 or so crimes that are capital offenses in the new to even in the New Testament. St Paul when he talks about the state having the power sword. Next GZ believe that this is not just the power of coercion but it is also the power of the legitimate exercise of the death penalty so everywhere you go in the scripture you have. The possibility of the legitimate use of the death penalty and as you say Catholic history we have the recognition that this is a legitimate punishment under the right conditions. Do you have any any idea why we're going through this period of confusion now in what what is bubbled up. Ecclesial culture or even in the world culture. Seems the pushing Catholic teachers in the direction of saying that the death penalty should be entirely abolished. Well that's a great question it's one we deal with in the book and I would say that among the factors are there within the history of the church there's always been a range of views on the issue of Chapel punishment and see you've always had You've always had kept the moral theologians and some church men and saints who've been opposed to it at least in practice but theory and those who strongly support it and in those who may take some more intermediate position to allow some cases but not in general and so on and so forth there's always been this range of opinion. And Champix history and sometimes the church in general has tended to one direction or another so earliest years of the church when the church was suffering heavy persecution there was more of a tendency to favor leniency application of capital punishment for most of the history of the church there is a strong tendency to uphold capital punishment and in recent years the potential back more in the direction of abolition now I think part of the reason for this is that the patients are under enormous pressure from the secular culture and from the media because they have to up hold chap a teaching on abortion on same sex marriage on you and Asia and they have to take their for extreme we unpopular position. So it's very tempting to try to look for some area where you can. Find common ground with liberal secular culture and sense opposition to capital punishment though it's certainly not required by Catholic teaching it's certainly allowable teaching here again among those issues that Catholics can live legitimately disagree and there's a very strong temptation to sort of grab for that issue as an area where Catholics might have common ground with the secular culture and I think that change the snowballs where as you you know you start giving arguments for maybe why it's not but that's policy here and now the rhetoric sort of ratchets up gradually over the course of many years and then before you know it. Churchmen start folding capital punishment into the issue of abortion euthanasia and sort of letting their rhetoric get carried away from them. And again there's a very strong tension temptation to do this so that you don't have to sound always as if you're at odds with the culture that you've got some time around so I think that's part of what's behind this is there there is this tendency to put more emphasis on it that is really merited by by the tradition of the church as a way to kind of balance out these other areas like abortion homosexuality where bishops have to be so deeply at odds with the rest of the culture you know that's a very good point and you know the there's a desire here in which is the abortions are killing probably $3000.00 humans day with abortion and how many will be executed this year 100. You know I mean a handful the numbers are just way disproportionate My guess is Dr Edward facer He's co-author of by man shall his blood be shed a Catholic defense of capital punishment it is I don't know any other book does what this book does in so thorough a way so highly recommending it to financial his blood be shed Kalak defense of capital punishment I want to come back on the other side of the break and go to some of. Any. Arguments represented against the death penalty and have you basing pick them apart and say for instance some people claim that the passage that is that title of your book Genesis 96 doesn't legitimately prohibit doesn't legitimately recommend the death penalty that is just some sort of proverbial passage that basically means the punishment should fit the crime but it's not in any way. Binding. States so I want to go back and let you would address some of these questions that are brought up. To try and. Abolish the Death Penalty but I also want to. When we return to have you present the natural law. Teaching. I guess again Doc Rivers phrase or by man shall his blood be shed a Catholic defensive temple only when I mount Crystal we've got more coming. So we cannot arrange and I can't and I have never seen women I want to be. Think wagering. Carol or someone they are. Going. To start from running from. Religious. Eistein dot com Press a in the afternoon it's brought you in part by the hour the unit will find investment fund that it is dined and screened to be pro-life and pro-family 6 different bill relief are available to help you reach your goal that. Martin that day and Catholic a number. More and more. 866. 628362 . In the u. Sa the ships in the Catholic Church are perils of faith according to the Catholic catechism their 1st task is to teach and preach the gospel to all men and women in this they are endowed with the authority of Christ Christ who is truth itself will to confer on the church a share in his own infallibility in order that the people of God have true guidance as to his teaching of Christ that's in down the churches shepherds but the gift of infallibility when instructing in matters of faith and morals the point enjoys infallibility when he proclaims by a definitive back a doctrine of faith and morals this same infallibility is present in the College of Bishops only when together with the pope they exercise the supreme Magisterium particularly in an ecumenical council This is Peggy Stanton and this has been the Order of Malta as minute with the catechism. It is revealed this it is gospel is brought to you by the truth. To build the Ave Maria radio a very a radio. When Jesus came into the district of says a re a Philip I asked his disciples 2 men say that the Son of Man is some say John the Baptist others say a light you and others Jeremiah. The Prophet. And I Present with me is a doctor interface or he is the author co-author recently by man shall his blood be shed a cap in defense of capital punishment the title of the book is taken from the Book of Genesis Chapter 9 verse 6 and this is a right after the flood you might say the new order of things is being established with the Noah covenant in the know a code and this passage is given again. That whoever shed the blood of man by man shall his blood be shed for God made man. In his own image. It always seemed to me that while that's not strictly speaking a legal statement as you might find in the law still makes it pretty clear that the reason. Death penalty. Is because it retains the gravity. Preciousness the human being. It's a way of affirming the dignity of the human person. Others would say that this passage means nothing more than the punishment should fit the crime why do you think it actually applies to the death penalty. Let me say a few things about that because one of the most significant things about it is Genesis. The part of Man by Vangelis but the share and it goes on to stay for man was made in the image of God. One of the interesting ironic things about this passage in the context of the current debate is that capital punishment is often condemned by some Catholics in the name of human dignity. Capital punishment as a punish as a punishment is not. In conformity with human dignity as some lesser punishment would be ironically in Genesis $16.00 says it's always been understood that traditionally. Capital punishment is called for precisely because man is made. That because the dignity of the human person because. Human beings are made in God's image no punishment less than could possibly reflect. The gravity. To give any less punishment would really be an insult to the victim it doesn't mean by the way that in absolutely every case Cavil. Punishment must be inflicted that's not something we argue for but the idea is that there is a presumption that ought to be the penalty and if we're going to override that presumption that would be the sufficient penalty for murder we have to have some very powerful reason but which as this 96 is saying is that there is a presumption in favor of capital punishment because of the gravity because of human dignity so when you have churchmen who condemned capital punishment as a as contrary it's a man being made in God's image and yet Scripture evidently says the exact opposite and they don't they don't even address this apparent contradiction but or try to resolve it it really undermines the credibility of the church when the church seems to be she's not really teaching us but when she seems the presentation of some bishops to be to be teaching something at odds with scripture This is something that really harms the credibility of the church. But anyway you know you ask about how this passage ought to be interpreted as a traditionally it's always been understood to be a sanction for capital punishment sometimes people say well maybe it's really just kind of a proper in the passage God is simply saying that human beings will in fact tend to be tend to lose their lives in retaliation. For committing murder but number of problems with that and one of them is that well is it simply kind of a prophecy or a proverb what is all this business about man being made in the image of God. That phrase indicates that there is some kind of a matter of justice yes that the penalty of flags there's also the fact that in the context of that passage we have other statements are clearly commands and not merely proverbs or predictions so for example the very next verse in 7 it says for us as for you all and multiply multiply in the year. That's a that's a command God is telling human beings to be fruitful and multiply he's not simply. Giving a prediction or. What have you and in another. Verses in the same context we have commands the very odd it suddenly started on from making statements making commands to just making a prediction and going back to make. Very strange reading and if it's worth noting that one of our most opposed important ponens in this debate a Catholic theologian by the name of Christian brother who has penned probably the most important book on the other side of this question Kapil punishment. He himself examined different ways that people try to reinterpret this passage and decide that none of them really seem to work and he admits that Genesis 96 is a standing problem the problem at the abolitionist position that that hasn't been convincingly reinterpreted and a deeper problem even the Nat is that you know the church explicitly says that you cannot interpret Scripture in a way contrary to the way the sponsors of the church understand the way the church has herself traditionally understood it and the church is always traditionally understood that pathogenesis 96 as a sanction of capital punishment not as a mere proverb or protection. To some you mention the word justice and I think this is actually one of the neglected areas in this debate over capital punishment. There is a lot of attention being paid to. The certainty we have. In quoting criminal justice system we and I have had plenty of stories here where people convicted falsely and war and death rows we hear a lot of those stories and that's important. Well you also hear about dignity of the human person and capital punishment some people believe on the face of it undermines human dignity although as you point out Genesis 96 turns that right out and said it makes it clear that penalty is related to human dignity but almost nobody stays Marines raises the question of just deserts or proper retribution and if you do you're accused of wanting revenge and this is the death penalty becomes then just a state demanding its pound of flesh it's it's not justice it's revenge. I've noticed there's nobody I mean virtually nobody at a popular level is arguing that the death penalty. In many cases would be just desserts in retribution and used to be the retribution argument was very important. Would you say. But you said there's virtually no one but there's not no one since. 9 out because that is a central. By no means the only part of our case but it's a very central part of our argument that without capital punishment on the books and applied with some regularity we really lose all sense of justice and retributive justice today just as much as in the history of the church is the church itself teaches in the current catechism including the current catechism is the fundamental purpose of punishment catechism says that the fundamental purpose of punishment is to be caressed the disorder caused by the offense and this is traditional language for retributive justice that is to say inflicting on the offender a punishment that he or she deserves that there are other purposes of punishment such as deterrents such as rehabilitation has the protection of society but these purposes are all traditionally regarded as 2nd because the idea is that you can't punish an offender you can't well you can't punish anyone unless he or she is an offender in the 1st place is to say you can't legitimately punish someone even for purposes of deterring them or or changing their behavior unless they deserve that punishment and deserve a punishment as grave or as severe as the offense they committed to so not to have Richard Ricci be the justice in you giving someone what they deserve is really to do an injustice is to treat people as if they were merely therapy cases say if they were caught in a social machine that were manipulated unless someone deserves the punishment that he's getting then you're not doing just said all in the church itself teaches the s