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Like answers live my name is Don Johnson great to have you along psychedelic I know he's in the trunk of my car and the guy never shows up to work and he'll be back at some point but in the meantime we're going to do our best what an hour we have for you this hour Matt Brad is here of course you probably know that Matt speaks to tens of thousands of people every year he's the author of about a 1000000 books including Does God exist a Socratic dialogue on the 5 ways of Thomas Aquinas and one of my favorites the porn myth exposing the reality behind the fantasy of pornography has a Masters an undergraduate degrees from Holy Apostles college he does 2 of the best pod casts in the interview abs love people use things as one of them and everyone's new favorite pints with a coin I don't actually don't know how new this is Matt but this is a great I guess point to the point is Matt Fradd welcome to Catholic Answers life. That I don't thank you very much before we get into some of the things I want to talk about your latest project the one we want to focus on in this hour is called How to win an argument without losing a soul and I'm going to hold it up for our viewing audience where we go on You Tube and Twitter and everywhere else Facebook everybody who calls in this hour I don't even think you have to get on the air but everyone who calls in especially to get on the air will get a free copy of this d.v.d. How to win an argument without losing us all here's the number 8831 truth 888-318-7884 I know Matt that a lot of people struggle with this. I even wrote a book about how to talk to people how to talk to a skeptic so I'm I'm with you on this when people ask me all the time they said hey I got coworkers I got friends family they are skeptical they don't know and I just get into an argument with them now you're saying how to win that argument without losing a soul 1st I think let's talk about this I thought we were supposed to argue with people who are now you're telling us we need to win this argument what do you mean by argument now get good idea we should define our terms an argument isn't a spat it isn't a quarrel or a fight rather it's giving reasons to believe something to be true that's all it is and it's unfortunate that sometimes we'll hear even in Christian circles that we really shouldn't be with people but we should instead share our story because it seems to me that if you go to evangelize somebody tell them about the truth claims of Christianity or perhaps evangelize them on a particular moral issue the next question they might ask you at the taking you seriously is something to the effect of Well why should I believe that if you answer them coherently you'll get a helpful way you've got to give reason to believe something and it's just what I'm not going to use and so we shouldn't be afraid to pull argued and one of my favorite verses in Scripture comes from Acts Chapter 17 somewhere and say Look at that it was calibur Sad know exactly what. It's after 70 and it says that poll apart from just argue in arguing in the synagogue with the Jews he would hang out in the marketplace and argue and it says he with a chance to be there so you just get this idea of poll hanging out you know ready for an argument so we shouldn't be afraid to argue but we should do it 1st pita chips because 15 with gentleness and reverence because we've all been made for truth and goodness and beauty and so we shouldn't see each other so much as combatants but rather as brothers and sisters journeying towards the same destination God Himself Hopefully yeah I that was actually a pretty major passage in my own journey into ministry Matt is that I like to argue when I was younger and that was sort of like downplayed and then I realize what you just said like well no I mean Paul spent a lot of time going from place to place actually arguing but let me ask you this Matt because even the way we want to present an argument in the proper sense right in the philosophical sense there's a lot of people out there that don't seem to make decisions I mean you said hey if you present something the next question they should ask is Why should I believe that's true do you get the sense that our culture maybe it's just me but you get the sense that people aren't even getting to that level they're not even analyzing whether or not things to be true is basically well I don't feel good about that therefore I'm not even going to contemplate it or track you anything you know I think on a surface level I think that's true even head Oprah the other night saying that we should speak altruism speak your truth there's no such thing as your truth you may have an opinion and then there is the truth and your opinion might coincide with the way reality is so but what I think on a surface level we may want to dismiss it and say well that's not true for me. Unless we're going to be completely illogical we have to face up to the fact that objective truth exists because if you want to say objective truth does not exist you've just made a true statement and that it is. Sort doesn't and if it does then you've just refuted your own position. And if it doesn't you should have made that statement to begin with and I think so long as we journey along side people as friends and not smart alec people who are trying to get a jab in here all day by pointing out what logical fallacy they just committed I mean who wants to hang out with a person like that not me is special to be you want to do it in Latin is really that really don't you think. I think. If you just name examine their logical fallacies in Latin people love that. Because I think it I think if we're honest like all of us want to be trying to horn like all of us want to just lay the smack down and walk out while the crowd cheers drop them well yeah most of us aren't that sort of intellectually inclined. In 2nd of all we really have to journey decide people and love them and take a holistic approach and interest in their life I think that's where you'll start listening because I'm not interested in you if the only thing you're interested in doing is telling you I am wrong and why should believe what you believe but I might be and just knew if I believe that you really love me and want my good right we're talking with Matt Fradd he has an amazing d.v.d. It's called How to win an argument without losing a soul it also happens to be our topic this hour so if you've got questions about how to win arguments with those close to you Call now 888318784 we will give you a free copy of the d.v.d. We have mentioned a logical fallacies a few times here in the 1st few minutes of the show Matt what are some of the common logical fallacies that people sort of carry around maybe not realizing that they hold to them Well I think we just mentioned one and that would be something that's called self-referential incoherence such as when somebody makes a statement and upon making it refutes their own positions or if I say to you I don't speak a word of English I've refuted what I just try to say if I say to you truth doesn't exist I've just refuted what I'm trying to say that would be one and another one we see online would be the ad hominum fallacy ad hominum is a Latin phrase speaking of Latin would. Means against the man I think very often what people do is not attack the argument their opponent is making but instead they attack them and so they might say well you're a bigot you're a racist you know you stink you're a struggle you're not another might say all sorts of things I don't know but if you doubt low do they met no I wouldn't. But I mean even if these things were true I might be a horrible individual who holds a true opinion and so it's important that we you know stick to the topic at hand this is why I love Thomas Aquinas so much others noticed another logical fallacy would be a straw man that's when you misrepresent your opponent's position to more easily take it down you know and with Aquinas what he does is he steal mans his opponent's arguments that is to say what he does as he puts up his opponents best position even better than they can and then shows why it's wrong but I think you know. Fallacy of ad hominum say against the man and I think a strawman fallacy is a very very common online not just not just among the secular people that we want to refute but even among Catholics of common I think you've basically described entire world of Twitter right there is one big presidential debate big article fallacy Yeah totally You talk about Thomas Aquinas and I know that you have a very cool podcast I want you to share called pints with the coyness tell us a little bit about this Matt and how you help people argue more effectively on a podcast I think c.s.o. Points with Aquinas is a podcast I started a couple years ago now the premise is if you could sit down over a point of view with Thomas Aquinas and ask him anything what would it be and so every podcast revolves around a question that Aquinas answers and some of the o.j. . Or some out of his works and it's a way to bring the academic mind of Thomas Aquinas out of the ivory tower given the b.s. I will speak to you and me to riffraff it's me trying to help people understand Thomas Aquinas and and we have a lot to say about a lot of things and we go through them every week and I think that'll help acquaint people will. Thomas Aquinas in the teachings of the Catholic Church absolutely So go to Matt Fradd dot com I believe punch of the corners dot com will get you there as well and always go to i Tunes and just hit subscribe on that all right when we come back from this break we're going to your calls here's the number are triple 831 truth 888318784 everyone who calls into this hour gets Matt Fred's d.v.d. How to win an argument without losing a soul so call now and we'll be right back. Number one source for Catholic apologetics evangelization Catholic Answers. Can you where is pro-life mom and to get as many people as we can involved in the pro-life cause we're making Trent horns d.v.d. Making the case for life bailable for just $5.00 a copy at a savings of over 70 percent this d.v.d. Was made specifically with you in mind to help you engage in sustained and meaningful dialogue and to give you the tools you need to change people's hearts and minds so that together we might build up a pro-life culture one person one conversation at a time to get your copy of the d.v.d. Making the case for life for just $5.00 a copy called 182918004 this is the shop at Catholic dot com. Francis reminds us that it does not take a specialized degree in theology to become a great evangelist where conduit Vangelis think about the woman at the well after seeing counter Jesus she immediately went to the city and invited others to meet him as she had you and I can go out now and do the same and same cause st of Angeles nation can help get involved today by contacting us at St Angela's ation dot com that's treated Angela's ation dot com. Just like the saints of the counter-Reformation our own souls are in constant need of reform every conversion to God and His will for us we struggle with we become distracted. In prayer you find it hard to be loving and easy to be. In reform yourself McAfee shows you how these magnificent Saints can be guides to your own personal transformation. We all need to reform Let the same to reform the church show you how Order your copy of reform yourself today by calling one Triple 8 to 91000 isn't a shock a Catholic or ask you a good Catholic bookstore your. Time thinking of. The Catholics you want to meet and there's a share they can think various. Cancers line. 78. Is Catholic Answers. And the Johnson City in for cycle and you can find out more about me and Don Johnson that ministry is it done org You just heard the number to call 88318784 let me issue a clarification about this hour's giveaway because there's a lot of people calling in filling up our lines who don't actually have a question for Matt Fred in well this is Catholic Answers live and in order to provide you with an answer we need questions and so if you just want to call and get the d.v.d. I don't know you're going to have to do that some. People figure out an hour or you can just call in and get the d.v.d. If you have a question for me. Yeah exactly one cycle is back on feel free to do that ask for your free d.v.d. Now for those who have a question for Matt and I are going to plug up the phone line so if you called in a civil guess here t.v. But for all of you who are about to call in please do so with a question for Matt friend we are talking about how to win an argument without losing a soul that is the d.v.d. That we will send for instance to Pablo who called in from Atlanta Georgia with a question Pablo welcome what is on your mind. Yeah you really we're a public Oh Ok Ok my issues my my my situation my college when she she was a Catholic and then she became product Jellicoe Protestant and it's been like 2 or 3 years we've been going into a dialogue. About several topics. But I become frustrated because whatever and she's the one that brings up stuff about the Catholic Church Her main point is that the Catholic Church has man made. Doctrine. So. For example I ask her to just give me one she says well you know the papacy and so on. Or whatever and then I bring all the arguments and everything you know I research and give to her all the answers Ok What's your response what's your argument and. Most of the time she comes up empty and when she sees herself with no answers then she basically closes every conversation strain whoa whoa you know you have your opinion on how by. The Holy Spirit to. Tell you the truth you know like like I'm the one in error so you know you can 1st trading I show her all the information and everything and she basically dismisses everything like like well whatever you say. Huge So I you know thanks Paul I'm going to jump in on in there problem Matt. Yeah thanks for the question you know sometimes we can have all of the answers and express the coherently and still appear to be completely insane to the people we're arguing with I'll give you an example. One of my close relatives is and 911 conspiracy theorist Now I'm not here on the gallery as I've making any statements about this Ok it just it seems to me that it's unlikely Ok but I've never researched it now when I asked my relative Why on earth you think this was an inside job he threw about a 1000000 different arguments my way none of them did I know how to respond to I've Bailey knew what he was talking about and when I tried to give reasons to show that it was an inside job I really hadn't thought it through a great deal and so if this was a public debate this relative of mine would have absolutely wiped the floor with me but did that change my mind no it didn't in a way it's kind of made me more adamant in my own position and I think this is what happens a lot of the time right you can have all the arguments all the responses all the scripture verses and that person is simply not open to the evidence and so what I would say to you is a couple of things one take a holistic interest in this person since one makes sure that you are talking about other things beside the differences in your beliefs so that she knows that you love her but you're interested in her we mention 1st day at 315 a moment ago the very it's 3 things in 1st day 315 the 1st thing it says is in your hearts reference Christ as Lord and so I think the 1st come on to a human to was made public would be to to to live a holy life to live a prayerful life and let that be a witness to your friend and then says Always be ready to give a defense so you're doing that and it is do that with gentleness and reverence and and make sure you're doing that as well now one question you might ask your friend is this. Ok you have a lot of problems and a lot of objections to Catholic teaching what would you say is the biggest objection and let a think about that and let it come back to you and you might not even answer there on the spot but you have to see it is if you could respond to her biggest objection satisfactorily. She would then have to concede that all of these smaller objections could in theory also be answered and so rather than trying to answer a 1000000 objections at once trying to just listen to that number one objection and spend time studying and answering that the other thing I would say is spend some time asking her to talk to you about her love for Jesus Christ as she might have objections of the Catholic faith and you don't have to respond to every one of those objections then and there I think sometimes we can recognize that Al attempts to evangelize can sometimes not just be unproductive they can be counterproductive so an example might be you around the Thanksgiving table with your in-laws who aren't Catholic I think we can all agree that to bring up a particular matter of faith that we disagree with that would be counterproductive and so not to be afraid to allow her to talk to you about her love for Jesus even why she left the Catholic faith and show that you're actually interested in her as a person so that she knows you actually love her and that you want her want to seek the truth together as opposed to her feeling as opposed to her feeling like you know a sort of a conquest that you're trying to defeat or something does that make sense. I also try. To. Sell. To get away from. You know one of the things you said which I think is with addressing you said she said she you know you had your opinion I had my opinion let's see if the Holy Spirit has an opinion well you might say well isn't it possible that the Holy Spirit has settled this question like I don't know in the Bible like. Like if she's a spousal a particular view that wasn't taken seriously in the Christian community for like 1500 or 1200 years that should worry her right you might say to her show me one of the earliest Christians who held to this view because if they all held something completely different then that should keep her up at night that should worry her that would you might say good that would worry me and example I would give would be back to the regeneration Ok every single church that addresses John 3 where is it all John 3 you have to help me where he talks about he was born of water and Spirit John 35 I believe you know every church father who addressed that issue said he was talking about that baptism regeneration the idea that baptism didn't regenerate the soul didn't come about to all rigs wing Lee in the 16th century who said when it comes to this matter of baptism regeneration I can only conclude that all the fathers who talk to the church have been. Pretty arrogant thing to say but at least he's consistent but I think going back to be early church can be a helpful tactic as well. Appreciate it Pablo thank you so much for the call up before we get our next call Matt problems question here actually resonated with me a little bit especially as reference to