Used to happen on the reservation What's a lot of people. So I felt that it was something that I needed to bring to the attention of the public in the communities. So we talk about missing women we also need to include q. And also our men and boys this will be the 3rd forum held by the group previous forums were held on the Navajo reservation and in Flagstaff Arizona various organizations and advocacy groups are expected to attend including the New Mexico missing and murdered indigenous Women's Task Force the public is invited to give testimony. National news is produced by the Broadcast Corporation funded by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Traditional and contemporary American Indian craft supplies from. Shells and feet in Rapid City. At the very edge. By the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism. Stressing the foundation skills knowledge that all good journalists must have. December 13th at journalism. Major voice one the Native American radio network. Point 7 f.m. Well it's a $91.00 Fort Bragg at $88.00. Welcome to the farm this is your host Ruthie King we have a great program coming up for you live recording light of what are we doing here. Where played Carnegie Library and well it's and we have an amazing show we've got some prerecorded stories we've got a guest on the air and I'm joined here in the studio with Rose but Ireland. As ranchers we make a lifestyle and a livelihood out of grazing domesticated animals so it's important that we all recognize that before this land was colonized by white people and domesticated ruminants it was inhabited by native people and wild ruminants our existence here is a very recent occurrence in the grand scheme of things and we have significantly thrown off the balance of predator prey dynamics as well as people to land relationships the consequences of that imbalance are seen and felt by ranchers and environmentalists and the conversation today will loop and ranchers on the ground and activists alike so we're going to start today's program by hearing about a recent interaction between predator and prey domesticated and wild. We'll be hearing from Paige Lynn Trotter who grazes goats and sheep as a contract grazer in Northern California she centered mainly in Sonoma County she graces homeowners associations public parks transportation corridors and all sorts of wild landscapes as well so listen in as we hear from page about a recent encounter she had with a mountain lion this August. Let's get this Ok here we go. And here is Paige when. The night of the encounter it was just after dark and I had gone out to my students a little bit later than I would typically like to do it. Unfortunately And that pretty much confirmed that me turning the fence off rocking offend fine making sure that there's no in areas where wildlife is being tried to crawl under horns or put the fence and started to walk the fence line making sure that everything was stable and came across. A good body that had been recently killed it was still warm and. I'm really not that great evaluating cause it kills so I couldn't figure it out in the dark what had happened and but immediately on my senses turned on and I knew that there was something wrong so I start to finish doing my check line might have been fine check and went to go look for my ghost in the attic and figure out what was going on and saw the man had only been one corner of the paddock like there is something bothering men and they continued to walk down the fence when it came across another goat body and I realized that this is like a predator issue in a way that they were the reason that they're quick to me it's because the way that they were laying they had been drugged to defend twine from the inside of the paddock and so it clicked with me that something had killed them and tried to take them out and got dropped and I like to spend and so went back in to get another one and at that point I went back to my truck and I got my headlamp and I came back out and looked at body and found $22.00 very clear bite marks around the job of one of the goat and so I realized it was a broken neck and I think I still had it actually put together that it was a cat kill I just knew there was a predator and so my next thought was what the player a year in the player ready to get the dead bodies out. So that it doesn't draw in more pretty sure tonight. And. That was just the next step and so I told one of the goat bodies out of that I. Dick and I went out and went to pull another Ghobadi out and it was it was a large Go body so I went to I kind of it was rolling it out oh it's kind of a morbid description I suppose but I was rolling it up the hill to get out of the tonic and so I sat down on my butt and started pushing it with my leg and he. Found that came from inside of the out of the blood curdling scream like to Siri high pitched it was a moment scream and I immediately knew what the sound was and so I stood up really slowly and I looked around and in that direction to scream there's just it's not mine sitting there watching me probably. Maybe 10 yards away from where I was standing pushing it kill trying to push kill out underneath my electric fence and in that moment I lost all thought what am i even doing it was just too. I need to get away from the situation I'm in I didn't know where my dogs were I didn't know where to place and sure where my goats right at that point so I began to just back down the hill and I was totally unprepared for this encounter and I'm wearing like roll that jeans with football up on and I was lucky enough to have my head lamp in the moment but just totally unprepared I'm backing down the hill and through all of this point you know just trying to keep my eyes on me not in line but I had to look down to catch my footing and so when I looked down she felt she or he felt comfortable moving and so when I looked back at I was watching him walk down the hill to kind of get at eye level with me and it was just this nastiness I mean it felt it felt like his tail was you know like that in my neck and it probably was. In that moment it felt extremely large and thought back to all the way down the hill and I got out of the paddock and walked there were oh did I just passed the paddock and got into my truck and turned my truck on and blasted the horn and turned on my head light been called the friend of mine and told that moment happening because I just needed somebody to just won't I need somebody here what my thought process was and that I was thinking clearly because I wanted to just open the fence and get my goat but I knew that wasn't a rational option in the dark it's really difficult to move animals in the dark it's really difficult to get through the difficult to come up with the planet at 9 o'clock at night and so I ended up opening up the paddock and pulling my truck into the paddock with my goat and going down and turning on and checking that out of time and getting into my truck and putting with. My goats kind of huddled all around the truck so that I could turn that I thought and honk the horn if I needed to I don't I don't carry a gun and it never even crossed my mind that I would need a gun but in that moment I felt like I I need to figure out what is the best way to protect my animals tonight if this predator is going to come back and look for another opportunity to get dinner and that was. That was the best option that we have is what I ended up coming up with. Like very poor planning on my part. And that was how we spent the entire night it was a very strange experience so I don't. I don't remember feeling much like myself you know you kind of have this ideal version of yourself and you know keep a shit what would I do if this was if I had this opportunity to come across a mountain lion and I lost all sense of self in that moment and all of my really kind of primal instincts kicked in and I got really defensive in my animals and of my own life and of my dogs and I remember sitting in the truck just watching the edge of the wood with my goat how old around and thinking I would totally kill this not mine and I mean I feel like I'm a no kill maybe not at they can't but I feel like I practiced No Kill grazing method or. My Pretty should control and non-lethal we're going to need you know the right terminology and so it was very odd that this feeling of aggression towards this animal out of kind of a defensiveness that I was feeling and I stayed up that way and kill gosh maybe 1 o'clock or 2 o'clock in the morning I kept dozing off but the goat were doing this thing that they do when they're defensive and nervous where they rotate around each other and they kind of fight over who gets to sit in the middle of the herd and so they're head butting each other out to the outside of the herd and and how doing up against the truck and trying to stay in the spot that feels the safest to them and watching them in that state of panic is just making me more angry with this not in line for putting in in this position of fear and. And I began to kind of doze off in and out feeling this real sense of like anger and aggression. And toward this mountain lion as I'm doing so and ended up falling asleep and having a really intense dream that I still have to be honest only finished processing but the dream led me into a completely different mindset and in the dream I was going through the same scenario over and over again where I was going out and checking my goat and the mountain lion kill would present itself and I was really in a struggle with this not in lion in the stream it just kept replaying the scenario and I finally made the decision in my dream that I was going to kill the mountain lion and I went out and in my dream I chose a very bizarre method tracking the mountain lion and putting its throat as if I was . Going to bleed it out for Harvester something and when I get him out mind I expanded and it was almost like this motion picture started playing and I did this in my dream she was a female mountain lion and. It played all these different scenes what I would just try that. Theory is quote Traill a press that is. Kind of in the history of cultural oppression and one of the very one of the specific thing I remember was actually I remember it so well because it was it reminded me of a story that a Northern Cheyenne woman told me in Montana about go in her and a bunch of other mothers going and standing outside of this chain link gate outside of a boarding school where all of their kids had been taken and then when. When their area where their tribe had. Been living had been colonized and they'd separated all the children from the elders and put them into boarding school so they could learn to be. Really they could learn not to fit into white culture and I'm going to stick English and and so the mothership made this decision that we are going to go stand there and make sure children can see that it's we're not we're not allowed to interact but we won't let them think that we don't exist we we want to make sure that they remember us and her story always really stuck with me that wow that that's that's something that very recent that's actually kind of still going on and in my dream it came up as a very clear image and that same woman who told me that story standing outside of the chain link fence thing and we were still here we want them figure still here and I woke up with this relation that I would not want to participate and decorating anybody from their culture even if it wasn't my own even if it was you know something that was threatening my own life but I didn't want to participate in . Oppression or destruction in that way and when I woke up from that dream with that realisation that tears streaming down my face because it was you know there was a lot of different images in that kind of motion picture that the line shown me. Might go had been that were how did it all about my truck were laying down for the 1st time narrowing down they were all chewing their cut and they were all quiet nobody was headbutting each other nobody was nervous and the forest edge felt like so much more peaceful than when I'd fallen asleep and had this dream that had me process that anger and fear and I woke up and realize you know we're not going to we're not going to leave and we're not going to kill this mind we're going to try we're going to try to learn what the lesson here is and how can we better lead went flying and so I texted a trapper friend of mine at 3 o'clock in the morning and she text me back. Maybe at 5 or 6 in the morning and that you need to contact this company if not I think it's a nonprofit organization called Living with lions and I contacted Ben cursed thing one morning and let them know I had this encounter I had I lost some of my coat and the lion prevented or bend down to me and let me stand in the paddock with then I backed away and this is after describing it to then they felt like we're they were really overbooked and didn't have the capacity to come out there but because of the fact that goal line was willing to interact with me and I had multiple kills in one county it was a unique situation and they came out and set a trap in hopes to catch the lion and either call it call or it were identified if it was a collar lion who it was and if this was a lion that had been repeatedly causing problems or maybe a young lion and they walked me through this really interesting process what are their goals and what are they trying to achieve and. They gave me a couple of management changes but they asked me to make an I agreed Q Which included bringing my goat in at night we converted an old wine cave to kind of a close and shed and it had a. Wind keep it no door so we ended up adding a door to it basically that every night the good could go into that space I also ended up with a friend the one I ended up having a friend loaned me a guard dog to put in with them when they were out during the day and he went in but then the wind came that night and and he just made all these kind of extreme changes if you don't know the contract grazing context it's the only mobile operation that you know you don't take infrastructure like sheds and runs and and things that would fit into a conventional feting and a little easier and also make it a lot easier to protect your animals and we don't need any of those things these electric netting and. In that kitchen everything but why and my experience goes in so we made all of these changes and. Really tried to learn to live with wine and I really thought that we're putting in our best effort we increased the number of times we were moving our animals to they were in this spot for too long and and I ended that. I already had a living trailer there but because I have other jobs I was having to come and go so I ended up bringing on a 2nd Shepherd and any time that I wasn't there there was another shepherd there so they were human presence and that was really what living with winds was number one biggest deterrent for lions it's just human interaction they don't want to be they said if you know even if you just wander away to the other side of the property turn on talk radio or something that would deter lines from coming around because they think there's a human presence. And so I did all of those things I mean I checked I checked every . The way that what I could do better in order to learn to live with lions then. And push through the next 2 weeks of finishing out the grazing project then and trying to target the forest that didn't push back the brush and. So we'll hear the rest of page a story at the end of this program here and. Go back to listening to this beautiful song that we started hearing at the beginning of the show before we go into our next interview. A. That was coyote a lullaby and I'm here joined in the studio by the songwriter that song rose but Ireland thank you for being here welcome to the show thank you for having me Nancy can you tell us a little bit about that that song by We've just been hearing yes coyote lullabies a song that my husband Scott and I recorded. Interesting the on our 1st new cd that was after 2 years of Scott recovering from a broken neck that had left him temporarily paralyzed he was told by the physician that he would likely never play again so this 1st new recording after that recovery period of 2 years plus. Was a great celebration and when he was finally able to walk again we went camping a number of times to get him out to the healing powers of nature and we would hear coyotes gently singing us to sleep most nights you know some call them gods gods little song dogs and the truly helped us both to heal. And total now we've recorded 8 C.D.'s together and 2 solo each and he's just become in and and more incredible guitarist. Day by day actually he's very inspiring and your vocals on that song are just incredible so thanks for sharing that with us and. You're also a member. Of the Mendocino nonlethal Wildlife Alliance and that's what brings us here today is an event that you're putting on so can you give us a snapshot of that that event coming up. Yes for sure I was going to say I'm a long time musician guitarist vocalist songwriter. With a degree in biology emphasis and wildlife biology so. Just my background while I'm in the Mendo non-lethal Wildlife Alliance were an organization helping to raise awareness on conflicts. Issues of conflicts between wild animals livestock and people and to that end we're having our our 2nd Mendocino event the 1st was a coastal event at Casper community center and this event is a community forum on ranching with wildlife it's sponsored by the Redwood Valley Grange Mendocino non-lethal Wildlife Alliance and project coyote it will take place this Wednesday November 20th 6 to 8 pm at the Redwood Valley Grange the event is free and open to the public speakers will be followed by a q. And a session protists a potoroo we're hoping for that and yeah and we actually are fortunate enough to be joined today by one of the speakers who will be there on Wednesday so if this show sparks any interest in you and you or you'd like to learn more about what Mendocino non-lethal Wildlife Alliance is doing or you are a rancher with experience you know living and ranching with wildlife we'd love for you to be there and we'd love for you to be there to hear from Kelly Hendrix and Kelly Hendricks is on the on the air with us today she and her husband managed Parsee our ranch in Petaluma to Cal calf operation Kelly's got a background in horse training and she works with Sonoma County wildlife rescue She's also on the board of project coyote So let's bring her up welcome to the program Kelly are you there. Yeah hi thanks for having me yeah thank you so much and we're really looking forward to hearing more about the work that you do with Project coyote So can you 1st tell us a little bit about the mission of project. Yeah Armisen we're a nationwide organization and are to help people coexist with native carnivores using education science in Africa. Great Yes and that's something that you practice on your ranch in Petaluma I imagine. Yeah I started working with Project 30 many I think in 2012 because I've worked on ranches my whole life and I think so many needless conflicts take place and I always knew that when I had more time I wanted you. On issues with human and wildlife interaction than conflict and so when I retired from horse training I found them on the line and there were in their scientific report or. Like a dozen of the top. Rocking and scientists in the world and I reached out and I've been working with them. That's wonderful So you know we did here at the beginning of this program story of an interaction with the a mountain lion not a coyote but I think that ranchers are working on landscapes that have all sorts of predators and apex predators and carnivores living and living amongst us pitch talked a little bit about some of the some of the management changes that she made including penning her animals at night and she already uses electric fence and having human presence. And so I wonder if you have any reflections on those things that individuals can do but also what are the changes that can be made at a broader level to encourage coexistence. Yeah I was I was listening to her story pages story and I was just fascinating to listen to when I was so impressed. You know her need your reaction on her and off kilter like most people would be if . Your initial reaction when you were angry and. Then. He spoke about her dream and everything that came to her and her for whatever reason people. Ringing to come to the conclusion that maybe that's your reaction is not always that way but it kind of story. You know all the conflicts so that they're really impressed because sometimes ranchers. Are ways and sometimes the danger when you become an expert in your field if you don't you're not open to. Trying new ideas or thinking of new bangs. Her willingness to adopt these new changes and try them I find really impressive I absolutely. Think and on a broader level think we can't do Q 2 What predators I think some of the changes that need to be made a smaller state wildlife agency that look out predators that kind of Berman and I run mostly by hunting and ranching interests and consumptive activity but the majority of the. You know whites in the public trust for all Americans and Jordi people are ranchers and they should have a say in how the animals are managed but right now we really don't know. And that's the sad thing is that a lot of times in the hunting ranching industry they don't appreciate the value of predators. And the value they bring to ecosystems and I looked at a government that can be killed mostly in a state year round with no back limit so I think those things need to be changed and. Also people in urban areas but I think you know a lot times that on is about ranchers the ranching injuries kind of got a bad rap for. Using too much real control but an urban areas we have to think we thank the people at the raccoon under the house in there don't want to there's that they have a trapper coming right out of it killed and stead of taking the responsibility to get exclusion work on their homes to prevent the conflicts taking place in the 1st you know in the 1st place. And you mentioned in that in that answer that. A lot of people don't just don't understand what the value is of predators on the landscape. And so you know I think rosewood and I were talking about this a little before the show that there's all sorts of. Reasons to to look at and reconsider the way that we interact with predators and sometimes you know people are drawn to different different sorts of reasoning and so sometimes it's an ethics based reasoning sometimes it's a science based reasoning often it's a combination of all of the things but can you talk to us about the value you know either scientifically or are just sort of the in Trinsic value that predators are native carnivores add to the ranch lands. Here are well on a practical level parameters that are in the value that they add in that they control of a broader population and that he would. Few years ago were. Cattle were grazing alongside wild by and ranchers were upset thinking that the bison route competing the cattle so they did this 2 years Betty and they determined that cattle were eating the majority of the for it and that the 2nd most word was consumed by rabbit. Bird of the forces by Jack Rabbit and I can relating 13 percent of the forage and the reason that it happened was because the widespread predators predator controlled it down but it wiped out all the coyote and of course a lot. And it's just an example of what can happen and I don't I don't know the consequences that happen when we remove predators another good example which Donnelly people hardly any people have heard of is the great rodent invasion and it was the biggest one in u.s. History. But. Late 1920 from county and. What happened what they had done the predator control throughout the county. Ended up happening with a huge rodent Well I think the count of it was like 100000000 my knee area and the residents were reporting that mice were running over their bodies all night. They said when they drove on the road your tires that squish because there are so many roads that are running out Oh my goodness yeah they were eating life back in there. Thankfully what happened were. Started coming back and our. Other Raptors came back and they got bounced back under track but it can tell you the types of things that can happen when we just. Watch them out of predators thanking we're protecting you know right now yeah absolutely I you know I have the experience moving to the ranch where I received now. Of moving to a place that had a very strong coyote population and a couple of dense sort of surrounding the grazing areas and it's a cattle ranch so coyote's aren't generally you know a problem for predator as predators for cattle but with sheep it's a different story and. And you know I remember falling asleep at night and hearing coyotes calling from all the all the corners of the property and and I used electric fencing and I used you know now I have these amazing donkey Guardian animals but. I remember doing maybe it was at the hop and Research Center there was there was some studies that were shown. Or just and even just experience shown that it's not only us learning to live with wildlife but sort of learning with the coyote's that these are the boundaries these are this is your territory and I'm carving out this space for myself and that I've heard that eliminating the. He population doesn't eliminate the coyote population it just opens up a power vacuum where other coyotes who have not been trained about you know what are the boundaries of this ranch and what's And you know what are the areas that I'm asking you to stay out of and it seems like the coyote population on the ranch where where I've been living has has developed this respect for zones and that there's a zone that I've carved out you know that I have carved out over the years that's my zone and there's these companies that have passed down that knowledge and that information every year to their pups I imagine. So can you talk about what happens what happens after a predator is removed from a ranch for instance well this is the thing we're starting to understand is that these predators have really complex post a lot and even predators that we consider the military and. When you remove one mountain lion from an area it can affect the population over a widespread area you know and what can happen as well remove an animal even have a good or a public safety reason or something and oftentimes put a lot of people in to monitor. Because. People that happens with any predator population. Really younger animals on the landscape without that knowledge but that cultural knowledge that out you know from generation and they don't know how to behave around people it or. Before they develop. An ability to hunt down around it which makes them seek out more vulnerable prey and like you said leaving a stable coyote population and plenty can be the best thing you can do and you can benefit from. Rodent control that they provide Well they've learned how to cure that passed on to their young how to respect. But boundary. How does to. Be on the normal right you know to believe a lot of talk a lot of not you know situation where you got in there and it started wiping out the coyote. You did operation that would be more prone to crying on your right right which is how we got. Where. We just keep killing coyote and not realizing that we're caught in this uphill but animals that are and. It turns out to be a lot like humans in a war zone you know it messes with their psyche and it just makes a grid. Available to avoid conflict. Yeah that's so well said Kelly when we now that we have this best science coming forward we're seeing that other animal species populations are not that disparate not that much you know different from humans when you disrupt a family structure you know in any way like this and whether it's the alpha pair who have been kind of keeping the younger animals in check mountain lions coyotes wolves. The disruption occurs on many levels and indiscriminate killing of predators so-called you know native carnivores are really having massive effects now that it's happening you know on such a grand scale in our in the United States and now we're having to deal with. Realizing that these traditional methods of managing human versus wildlife conflicts by killing them with traps snares poisons aerial gunning. You know it's not working it's backfiring and it's been challenging across much of the West not only in California but also in the Pacific Northwest the Rockies and. Yawned so you know we in Mendocino are certainly not alone in this endeavor. And you know we're coming to some aid Yeah it's amazing that we now have the advantage. Of all this information as you know Dr Bob Crabtree from Yellowstone Research Center spoke at our Mendo coastal event has been studying predator prey relations for over 20 years it might be going into 30 years and was explaining all this to us. You know especially the aspect that what do you get when you indiscriminately when you kill coyotes you get more coyotes right and it's not just that the litter size increases it also has to do with the survival rate of those coyote pups so it's built into nature to you know not only to survive but to thrive and this is wonderful that we've got this information now the best science at showing that to us so I think you've heard me. Think you know people think that I don't have to work how do you do that you know overpopulated you know really how how do they back around to drop on to realize that no there's a reason they're being or it has nothing to do would be a number. That they're right of. Disruption within their social structures that. Type of thing. Happening especially working with their hands on the route by 1st really see how they don't know where they are. At a pet you know another most. Emotional lie you know and how they can help or you know the. Great respect for. People in their societies in a war zone doesn't help anybody. That's a great analogy actually and I think we're saying that a lot of us are coming to understand this now that the information is becoming more available and the public wants not only food and open space provided by farms and ranches right but also to enjoy sustainable populations of wildlife as part of the rural and suburban environment you know where we can unveil and celebrate the rich tapestry of lovely sentient wild things whose fast wonder we're just beginning to understand and. Really reaching for our lives that have. Provided. You know really. Really important to have them on the landscape. Yet pages story was so I know it's not finished yet I can't wait to hear the rest of it but I was so inspired by her openness in the face of fear you know the the initial. Fear the image Bill a lockdown where you know you're not even you're in an altered state of sorts and how she handled that. You know I think it shows and we'll hear further from her that this isn't an either or situation we can have both and we can have coexistence and return to a more natural balance with all wildlife you know the original indigenous his page Lynne alluded to with her amazingly And you know inspiring story of then going and communicating with living with lions and you know I do want to mention Paige. Paige Lynn had contact living with lions she had done this work and we will hear. And I maybe I'll play it right now but I'll just introduce it by saying that you know unfortunately there isn't a silver bullet easy solution for conflict that ranchers have with wildlife and there are a lot of there are a lot of options there are a lot of things that we can do to to mitigate and have peaceful relationships and that it's not necessarily always the case and sometimes individuals act differently from the general population and sometimes these methods that we use don't work and I think that it's important to it's important to show that. That we we can try these things but really it's going to be a long process of reformatting their relationships and reformatting the dynamics and and so I think I will play now just a couple minutes the. Ending of the story from page before we hear some of her reflections of it. And then and then we'll bring you back on Kelly and we can talk about that so let's go to thank you. 2 weeks later. We had different Shepherd who was living in my living trailer that morning we had put the animals out into their paddock and I was on my way out of town for a brief half day and she called me about 2 hours later and said that there had been another mine attack at 9 o'clock in the morning when the guard dog in the paddock after they had come out of the wind and. Kind of then the defeat fell on me for a moment as I've done I've tried everything I really thought this is it I was going to learn how to live with lions and and but there was also a stent is a much different then. Much differently and initial reaction and I wasn't fearful or defensive or angry I really. I was just worn and willing to just hand over that piece of land to that lion and go get my goat and we did actually that I had to holler come in and show up a couple hours later and we loaded up the good and we went to a different place that we know been. And really felt like this is the right move given that a given the shot and rely waiter on after thinking about entire experience that I was really acting in haste that I thought that I could just fix this using all of you know pry of the management practices in and correct my mistake of going into been betting really lie and how to cat in a naive way. Instead of realizing that this is an entire culture that I have to learn to integrate myself into and as much as I need to learn to live with fine lines also have to learn to live with us that this is a long term relationship that's going to take years or decades to develop and. Getting to getting the opportunity to look at my animals and leave really gave me the chance to say you know I'm committed to this but a long term I can do this for the short term because I want to be committed to this for the long term and I don't know what that looks like I don't know if those management practices are going to be the one that they're. I guess we're just going to find out as we keep pushing through right. So that's. That's 2 weeks later after the initial lion kill in the and we don't know if it's the same lion. But it was I think that she said that they had identified it was a young male that had been back the 2nd time and 9 am. Entrance into a paddock with a guard dog is pretty bold move. But I just I really appreciate pages perspective that it is a long process and that it's a it's it's not only us learning to change our management it's also in some ways it's training these these carnivores these apex carnivore predators that are that are not they haven't evolved with fence lines and domesticated animals and you know it's a very recent thing in in history to have. Humans with fences and domesticated animals on the landscape so. Kelly I just want to hear from you a little bit about what. What you hope to accomplish at the upcoming community forum the ranching with wildlife forum at Redwood Valley Grange this Wednesday this Wednesday night. Well I hope we can open the minds to the value that predators have and why they've been a bit of thought about how on the landscape and I hope people will lead with. I guess about neutral they can try and and the problem the open mind about trying. And not something you can learn a lot about coyotes are successful one of the reasons we are so successful because there's. Behaviorally and like play just talking about in this last part of the story that you're talking about when she 1st you know you try to give a but then she realize. You know that it's moved around realized the long term thank you will link you just repeatedly and that's the secret to being successful and as humans we can be really really. Really really just change and I think to be successful as an industry you know with the ranting about how successful business we have to be. Changed and changes on the horizon that society has been about down to. That you. Practice that when one line with the current sentiment. And the current science it's interesting it is both it's both the current sentiment and the current science and I think I absolutely agree that there's a lot we can learn from coyote is in terms of our add up to Vittie and and I I really appreciated Page's mindset on that that you know it's not it's not that she tried and she failed and oh well go back to the old ways it's that this is going to be a long process you know she did mention that she's never had She's never to this day had dinner had any predation from coyotes because she uses electric fence and that's what that's what I use with my sheep too it's a great training tool if what you're working on is a long term training of a native population that it's that it's not a good idea to go after the animals inside of the fence that zaps your nose when you smell it so electric netting is a tool that I've seen more and more people use and it works really well with coyote's. And so I just encourage people to look into like you said other you know other ways that we can train change the way that we are managing our animals rather than asking. The native animals to change radically when who they are. It's very hard so you know every operation is going to be different every situation is going to be different depending on. The train. But what works for one operation not necessarily going to work for another so you know we need to. Look at the operation and figure out what was the work best for. That is a great thing yes it's all site specific for sure I just wanted to also you know commend Paige Lynn that as the planet becomes more and more crowded with people it's also a moral issue is emerging that she's alluding to within herself beyond even the scope of potential ill effects resulting from disrupting entire wild ecosystems through this indiscriminate killing of apex predators slash native carnivores such as the mountain lion. In Mendocino County the mountain lion decreasing numbers in our county are now coming under deeper scrutiny so this you know added ethical issue around how much wildlife may legitimately legitimately be killed or displaced is is rising and I'm really grateful she's addressing that and I'm also wanting to hear this last reflection from Paige Lynn so I just want to say for those of the listeners that were intrigued by this conversation you can hear more from Kelly Hendricks this Wednesday night at the Redwood Valley Grange from 6 to 8 pm That's a community forum on ranching with wildlife you can learn more about Kelly Hendricks work with Project coyote at their website which is project coyote dot org And thank you so much for joining us today Kelly it was great conversation. You know it's great talking with you guys. So next we're going to bring up some of the final reflections that Paige Lynne had. About her mountain lion encounter. It is so easy when you're in a place of fear you feel overpowered or you feel. To you know like I did have that in them like this mountain mine completely overpowered me in my operation I'm totally stuck in this place of not having any power in this relationship and all I want to do is just kill that thing and rid it of my life so that I can not feel fear and I didn't wake up with an answer I just woke up knowing I don't want to do it that way I know that way it would work for a minute but I know it didn't work for the long term because people are in that peeling it is a somebody always ends up Ok and. I truly believe like moving forward in the world . For everybody to have the opportunity to thrive is going to lead us into out here community and. I think that's such an important point that she makes and really drawing the connection between cultural oppression that we that we talk about and that we're aware of and that we're we're really looking at in our society from human to human but applying that also to to the wildlife and to the plants and the animals that are around us is such a great interesting perspective. And we're going to hear one final clip from page before we finish out this show. I have realized I've come to feel very appreciative for the apex predators on the landscape but I manage to be can't they provide something to need that oh well I struggle to find in a lot of my relationships and that's accountability. But really that stage 4 key they keep me countable to what it is that I'm called to do and I can't be lazy about it and I can't take the easy way out and I can't just destroy what what makes me uncomfortable I have to lean and it is comfort I have to learn I have to get better and I have to be held accountable to make sure that if I want to be in a relationship with these. Domestic species that you know we need somebody to protect them in order for them to be able to produce meat for me or great the land the way that I will that I think go in should be great I mean that that's a whole nother conversation but. But I really I really feel that they picked predators especially the mountain lion really keep being accountable to that man they pay we keep seeing accountable in a lot of ways but I think we can lecture and thing I've never had to deal with a coyote attack the way that I had to deal with the mountain lion attack and that was a real humbling experience and I realized that I fell short that night in allowing for my goat to be kind to me you know the epitome of being a play animal attack and and it also really changed my relationship with that and and my realisation that we really lack a death culture where I could experience that and not allow for it overflow. Maybe I would consider it unhealthy responses or unhealthy emotion that I had in reaction to I didn't know how to process the death of an ant unwanted death of an animal and that's coming from somebody who's participated in product for Alaska. And so that really struck me like my relationship. So on my terms. It really limit me you know moment when I need to react you know in a holistic way and that I can look at picture. Wow Wow. Yeah it's not often that we hear from someone who has such deep reverence to good relationship building and you know I 5 experience that with Paige Lynn as a as a person and to hear about her relationships that she has with her animals and her and the land that she works on. You know it makes me think of the ancient contract that we talk about. When we 1st domesticated animals that we would provide you know is this exchange that we provide we provide food and we provide shelter and safety and a swift and a swift death and in exchange you know we get the products the fiber and the meat and eggs and the milk and. But that it is this it is this contract it's this exchange and that relationship I think has largely been sort of washed away and I also want to just say that I didn't have time to put this piece of our interview in but page and I often talk about the feminine and ranching and how there's this different way that that is different from a dominant aggressive kind of. Framework you know that conventionally we have this real dominance over the land and the systems that we produce food from and. And kind of a more gentle and holistic approach that is complex and works with like a wide variety of different pieces of the puzzle is this new newly emerging kind of ranching in relationship we've been calling it and. And Paige Lynn talks about how the the most important piece of it is that is that the 1st step is listening and that you do a lot more listening and a lot more seeking to understand. And less control over all the systems. So that that concludes our page when Trotter interviews and I just I'm so glad that we got to share that with a listening public today and I'm so grateful that you were here to help put this all together Rose but we have a few minutes left and I want to open it up if you have anything you'd like to add to the to the end of the show thank you so much truth I'm so truly inspired by Peter Linz honesty in speaking to live in an open hearted relation to wildlife the original indigenous and Ruthie your mention of our ancient contr. Back with our wild wild brothers and sisters contracts you know in Mendocino County the 1st u.s. County to elevate beyond the issues surrounding g.m.o. . Mendo public has a wonderful opportunity now to move beyond the old path no longer serves us all onto a vibrant non-lethal prioritised a new path that heals and joins us all and to set an example for science based wildlife management while shifting that paradigm to coexistence and using modern practices that allow every wild species to find food and shelter an opportunity to maintain stable populations and when we put wildlife management under local controls in terms of overall policies rulemaking decision making regarding conflicts between wild animals livestock and people as we're discussing we have the rare opportunity to forge a more humble reverent and altruistic relationship with the natural world that sounds like the Mendo I know and and love so. May I give the details again when I tell you thank you so everyone is invited to this free event it's a community forum on ranching with wildlife sponsored by Redwood Valley Grange. It is next this Wednesday November 26th 8 pm Redwood Valley Grange and I would just like to say. You know we all have room for further education we've got 3 amazing speakers coming to share information related to ranching with wildlife including latest research and the most effective non-lethal techniques for protecting livestock Well conserving habitat wildlife and natural resources and I truly feel that all of us coming together specially within the gracious arms of Redwood Valley Granger community who survived the devastating fires. Are you know and inviting us from whatever walk of life we may be. From w.h.y. Why in Philadelphia I'm Terry Gross with fresh air today actor Robert Pattinson He's best known for his role in The Twilight Saga as the vampire Edward Cullen a bloodsucking teen heartthrob I think added. To the same time he has about. One of Pattinson 1st jobs was as a hand model modeling women's jewelry when he was 12 I think it was sort of. Like women coming to Edition in. The face. After becoming a success and big box office films he pivoted to indie art house films like his new one the light house he stars with Willem Dafoe as increasingly hinged lighthouse keepers. First. Line from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm Lakshmi Singh the troubled ministration plans to ease its position on Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank breaking with the more than 40 Year Old State Department legal opinion secretary of state Mike pump a I made the announcement a short time ago the. Approach towards Israeli settlements. U.s. Public statements on several elective unease in the West Bank have been inconsistent over decades today's announcement marks another major shift in the administration's Middle East policy the president previously endorse Israel's claim that Jerusalem is its capital then the administration relocated the u.s. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem while applauded by the Israeli government the Palestinian Authority and other major players in the region have warned the u.s. Is a new stance further complicates attempts at reviving the Middle East peace process Iran has reportedly exceeded another limit set out in the 2015 international nuclear agreement N.P.R.'s Peter Kenyon says the breach was reported by the International Atomic Energy Agency the i.a.e.a. Report says Iran stockpile of heavy water used in its Eric reactor has edged past the 130 metric ton cap agreed to in the deal under the deal Iran agreed to render the reactor in operable this breach is seen as less significant than earlier violations that accelerated Iran's enrichment of uranium and other nuclear fuel but Tehran has vowed to keep suspending its commitments under the deal as long as American nuclear sanctions remain in place despite the withdrawal of the us from the deal and Iran subsequent moves to abandon some of its commitments inspectors are still able to verify key aspects of Iran's nuclear program Peter Kenyon n.p.r. News Istanbul a new report estimates the results of the 2020 census in the u.s. Will guide how more than a trillion dollars a year in federal taxes.
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