and through his personal lawyer, rudy giuliani, to try to advance his interests in winning the 2020 election by getting a foreign power involved and that he will not stop doing that. no matter what happens, despite an impeachment proceeding right now against him, he's going to continue doing that. the great reporting that rosalind did about all the calls between giuliani and the white house in the last year or so i think reveals the extent to which giuliani was in touch regularly with all sorts of white house officials, including what seems likely to be the president himself. and so one other question we have right now is, is the president aware that rudy giuliani was going back to ukraine this week? if so, for what purpose? >> i want to get to those logs in a moment. doesn't this underscore the argument that the democrats are making that they need to do this quickly because the president tried to do it and he'll try to