the acknowledged legal conduct had affected the results of the election. okay. but the "washington post" writes, the defense is among the most carefully worded straw man arguments in modern american history. essentially the statement isn't disputing eastman provided a ready-made procedure for trump and pence to get it overturned. he clearly and unam big usually did so. he didn't say he should overturn it himself. joining me now betsy woodruff swan. welcome to the show. what's the reaction been -- this has come to light in the last couple of weeks, some really good reporting about eastman's plan. what have you been hearing in terms of a reaction to eastman's scheme and the defense we jufd read provided by the organization that employs him? >> there's, of course, a ton of interest on the select committee and the legal side of how president trump and his allies