What he says in private conversations. He thinks this is an unfair attack against his presidency. But that these probes have expanded, mushroomed to different veins, different associates of him. There hasnt been any wrongdoing proven, of course, so far, but its kind of gotten hotter and hotter over the past few months and that frustrated the president. He also gets frustrated when these senators are trying to take some of his autonomy away. He wanted to determine the bill on russian sanctions and exactly what would happen. He wants to be able to fire mueller if he chooses to do so. He says he doesnt want to, but he says if i have that option, i might want to take it. And he says he doesnt like being backed in a corner. So you see him really getting frustrated by these different measures. The latter point about mueller, theres a sanctions argument, well get to sanctions in a moment. The latter point about mueller, the president said hes not going to fire mueller and theres a period indicating where people are trying to wave him off that. It is notable to me that he would express anger at tillis for sponsoring a piece of legislation that would bar him
from firing mueller. Well, i think the president sees this as by putting this legislation on the fore, by getting bipartisan votes on it, its a bad reflection on him. It brings up the option that he may then be considering this. It limits his hand. The president fashions himself as a dealmaker, as a negotiator, and i think he likes to have all options on the table, when someone tries to say, listen, were going to curb what you can do here, were going to take something away, were going to take some of your power. He tends to lash out and not take that very well. I thought your characterization, based on the reporting, of the phone call with bob corker was fascinating to me, because it seemed like the president was attempting to make a fairly substantiative target against the sanctions on the policy merits. And my sense from the reporting that weve seen throughout his presidency is thats not something that he very often does or very often even seems capable of doing, but in this case, he did seem focused enough to apply that argument. Well, senior aides at the white house briefed him extensively on this. It was something that he saw as a possible personal affront to
and i think this was the tale of the whole issue. It sat there for six days. They said they kept saying it was very unclear. Great reporting. Thanks for having me. Im joined now by two reporters who have been closely covering the russia investigation. Betsy woodruff and phillip. Heres the statement that the president gave on the russian sanctions bill. Despite the problems, im signing this bill for the sake of national unity. It represents the will of the American People to see russia take steps to improve relations with the u. S. We hope there will be cooperation between our two countries on major global issues, so that these sanctions will no longer be necessary. They were dragged, kicking and screaming into this position, and the question here is, why . Do you feel like you have clarity on the answer to that . We dont have full clarity on it. I think what josh said earlier is absolutely correct, based on what im hearing from the white house, as well, which is that he viewed this as a threat to his autonomy as president. He didnt want this sanctions
bill to be passed. The republicans on capitol hill defied his wishes and passed it with a vetoproof majority, anyways. And he views this russia issue more broadly as a threat to his legitimacy as president. He likes to believe that he got elected solely because he was the better candidate and defeated Hillary Clinton entirely on his own merits. And any suggestion that russia did something wrong to meddle in the election, even if it didnt swing the election one way or the other, he views as a threat to the legitimacy of his victory. To that end, though win just want to follow up with you, phillip, and ill get you to weigh in here, betsy. That is what the white house projects about the president s state of mind. It is also a possibility, not a certainty at all or even a probability, its a possibility that the president did sympathetic wrong, that hes attempting to cover up. We have to entertain that as a theoretical framework through which to interpret his actions. Sure, and you know, thats exactly what Robert Mueller and the Special Counsel Team is trying to figure out and look into. And i have to tell you, theyre going to be looking into these
phone calls, i imagine, that the president made, especially the call with senator tillis, that politico reported on tonight, because thats yet another instance of the president taking it upon himself to try to to influence something pertaining to russia. Betsy, that to me is part of the tell here. We have a president , its very hard in some ways to interpret a lot of his activities, because he seems so obviously and manifestly uninterested in the details of whats happening in the government. Yet, there is selective interest, and time and tile again, intense, focused interest of the details of this one particular thing, which is the status of the russia investigation. I think one piece of that is because the president s focus always zeros in on whatever cable news is talking about. And the mueller probe, despite the best efforts of mueller and his investigators not to make any news over the course of their investigation, has constantly generated story after story after story. And the result has been that the
james comey. And to the extent theres a pattern of the president here attempting to quash his own investigation, one imagines its possible that that adds to that pile of evidence that the Special Counsel is evaluating. I mean, thats right, the Special Counsel is looking into obstruction. We know that from reporting. So we have to assume that the investigators are going to be looking at any action that the president took public or private, to influence this matter. And cast a broad net that theyre going to be looking at this. Theyre probably going to be looking at a number of things this president has done. But he cant help himself from becoming personally involved in this stuff. Some of his advisers in the white house, the legal advisers, the political advisers have been encouraging him to keep his distance, to work through lawyers on all of this, to observe and respect, frankly, a legal structure that would protect him as a client. And he doesnt always listen to that. Betsy, what is your sense, as someone who reports a lot on republicans on the hill, of how
they will react to phone calls like this, in terms of tillis, in terms of corker . Does it make them more or less inclined to maintain this sort of distance independence from the president . It, obviously, does nothing to thaw the already very complicated relationships between the white house and capitol hill. And one thing i thought was really important detailed in joshs story is the fact that one of the folks who was treated to an angry phone call from the president was bob corker. Remember, corker, at first, was very close with trump. He was considered a potential Vice President contender. He was considered a potential contender for secretary of state, as recently as several weeks ago, i had a conversation with a lobbyist who works on Foreign Policy issues, who said, keep an eye on corker, because if tillerson decides to bow out, hes next in line. Now, though, it looks like corker is no longer competing for this. First, we know, about maybe a week or so ago, corker told local reporters in his home state that he thought the president might not have the stability to be in the white house. That means this relationship is
frayed, and the president s phone call to corker probably played a major role in him feeling comfortable leveling that kind of criticism. Betsy woodruff, phillip rucker, many thanks. Joining me now are two republicans who have had a lot to say about the president s russia obsession. Evan mcmullen and republican strategist rick wilson. Rick, let me start with you. The sort of nonincrippletory set of facts is that the white house believes its bad policy, and that he feels insulted on a personal level by the russia investigation, because theres nothing there. What do you how do you evaluate that argument . Absolutely nothing else in Donald Trumps life causes him as much anxiety and anger and such an instantly visceral response as anything having to do with russia. And you know, its the old thing from proverbs 28 1. The guilty man flees when no one pursues him. And every time russia comes up, Donald Trumps reaction is so hyperbolic and so over the top, and you can see in the discussions from this article this evening that these members are thinking, why is he going so far off the rails on this particular question . And why is he, is he pretending that this is some sort of constitutional restriction on him, when its perfectly in the purview of congress. They may assume he doesnt know that, but his reaction to it has very much marked, i think, the investigation, and helped set a certain attitude inside the senate about where trump is on this. And i think its made them more skeptical and much more dubious of his excuses. Evan, what do you think of that . I think thats right. I think this is a reflection of fundamental issues about the president , not sort of just typical back and forth between the executive and the legislative branches about legislation. Donald trump is deeply vulnerable, related to russia, and issues related to russia that have to do with his activities, before the campaign
and potentially obstruction of justice. So this investigation is naturally going to put him at odds with the rest of the government, that in many cases is just trying to do its job. The other thing is that donald trump comes from a background in which he was rewarded for bullying people. The problem is, is that senators are very hard to bully. It may work in the white house somewhat. It may have worked on the campaign trail, during a campaign season. But the reality is, for example, Majority Leader mcconnell does not like to be told how to do his job. And other senior Republican Leaders on the hill, have learned that in the past. And donald trump is going to learn that lesson, too. I suspect that what will happen Going Forward will be that you will see additional commitment among republican senators to advancing russiarelated protections and investigations. But at the same time, they are in the same boat on other policy issues, whether its funding the government or, you know, or tax reform or health care. So they will work together. That will happen. Maybe theyll fail, maybe theyll succeed. But on the russia stuff, i think what donald trump has done is insured that republican senators are going to make sure what needs to be done is done. Theres also, rick, it seems to me, this sense of betrayal from the president. We saw this in the comey interactions, this sort of expectation of loyalty. That essentially, you work for me. And i think it seems to me that his posture towards the senate has been that very much, that you are essentially my employees. That you work for me. And my sense from reporting on u. S. Senator is they dont love being treated that way by the president , even if its their own party. Chris, just if i could say yeah, please, evan, go ahead. Theres this line out there that President Trumps advisers believe that because his national popularity, although extremely, you know, terribly low, is higher than that of congress as a whole, that somehow hes in a better position than they are. But thats the wrong number to be looking at. The sort of little secret about congress is that, yes, congress as a whole is unpopular. But members of congress have totally different popularity or Approval Ratings within their own constituency. And especially in the senate. And so, its just an unsophisticated way of looking at the situation. Go ahead, rick. And the other thing is, chris. This indicates very strongly, you know, donald trump is not a guy who understands that Pesky Constitution very well. And this is a government where the powers are separated between three coequal branches. And one of those coequal branches includes the senate, which is a body with enormous power, enormous scope of influence, and the ability of individual senators to have a bigger influence on the overall process, on the legislative side, that i think donald trump has ever grasped or understood. And hes made a lot of enemies there. And hes making a lot more enemies every day. I mean, this is a Guy Last Night who had Better Things to say about kim jongun than he did about arizona senator john mccain, who is suffering from brain cancer. This is a guy who has gone after jeff flake and dean heller and a
number of other u. S. Senators, in a way that its not that hes politically competing with him, its that he simply doesnt understand that his an actual cocall branch of government. They dont work for him. Theyre not his employees. He cant yell youre fired and throw them out of the boardroom. And i think he also mistakes the sort of courtesy of the senate and the sort of traditions and folk ways of the senate for weakness. And a lot of these guys will smile and look in his eye and say, mr. President and then theyre going to shank him. Lindsey graham and others, you know, these guys are perfectly civil. And they also hold their ground perfectly well when the time comes. All right. Evan mcmullen and rick wilson, thank you for your time tonight, gentlemen. Thank you. Up next, President Trump goes offprompter and stays decidedly on message. The fallout from last nights angry performance by the president in phoenix in two minutes. When only the best will do. One of a kind tempurpedic delivers. Only Tempur Material precisely conforms to your weight, shape and temperature. It provides up to twice as much pressure relieving power, so you wont toss and turn. And tempurpedic is the best at minimizing Motion Transfer from your partner. Youll wake up, feeling like a champion. Now through september 17th, save up to 500 on select adjustable sets. Find your exclusive retailer at tempurpedic. Com
seek a new unity based on the common values that unite us. We are one people with one home and one great flag. The president was back on a teleprompter today, reading off boilerplate lines like unity and healing at an event at the american legion. That message, which was part of continued efforts to clean up the mess the president made of his response to charlottesville, stood in sharp contrast to the largely improvised, well, tantrum of a speech he gave last night at a Campaign Rally in phoenix. And theres no doubt which one represents the authentic donald trump. Offteleprompter is onscript. By now, having won both the republican primary and general election with minorities of the popular vote, the president knows the potency of Divide And Conquer politics. He leaned heavily into those politics last night, railing against the backlash or his handling of the White Supremacist violence in charlottesville, accusing the media of failing to give him credit for condemning hate
groups. I hit him with neonazi, i hit em with everything. I got the White Supremacists, the neonazi, i got em all in there. Lets see. Kkk, we have kkk. I got em all. But the president left out the part where he blamed both sides for the violence in charlottesville and defended the, quote, fine people who marched with white nationalists. Instead, he seemed to identify with their cause last night, and using the same language as white nationalists to talk about confederate monuments. Its time to expose the Crooked Media deceptions and to challenge the media for their role in formenting divisions. And yes, by the way, yes, by the way, they are trying to take away our history and our heritage. You see that. They are trying to take away our history and our heritage. The president also hinted, he plans to pardon joe arpaio, the infamous arizona sheriff, whos convicted of Criminal Contempt for defying a court order to
stop racially profiling hispanics. Earlier, the white house had told reporters that there would be no talk of a pardon last night. Do the people in this room like sheriff joe . [ cheers and applause ] was sheriff joe convicted for doing his job . Thats what ill make a prediction. I think hes going to be just fine, okay . But i wont do it tonight, because i dont want to cause any controversy. Is that okay . Former Homeland Security secretary Janet Napolitano knows a thing or two about joe arpaio. She was governor of arizona from 2003 to 2009. She joins me now. Governor, what did you make of that moment, the president sort of flirting with the notion of pardoning a man whos convicted of Contempt Of Court for continuing to racially profile arizonians. Well, i think he would be just wrong to pardon the
sheriff. The sheriff was subject to lawful court orders to stop racially profiling. He denied and defied those court orders. He continued to do it. He was found guilty of that. You know, it takes quite a bit of evidence for the Department Of Justice to bring a Criminal Contempt charge, particularly against an elected leader like sheriff joe. And so for the president to hold that out as a tease was a dis to all of the people in arizona who have been victims of that racial profiling, and a Disto The Court System and the legal system that we have. You were Attorney General of that state, if im not mistaken, you were governor of that state, you served as head of the department of Homeland Security, you are now running part of californias Higher Education system. As someone who has been around president s, executives, peop