When i first started golo and taking release, my cravings, they went away. And i was so surprised. You feel that your body is working and functioning the way it should be and you feel energized. Golo has improved my life in so many ways. Im able to stand and actually make dinner. Im able to clean my house. Im able to do just simple tasks that a lot of people call simple, but when youre extremely heavy theyre not so simple. Golo is real and when you take release looking at home, i am alicia and follow the plan, it works. But mendes. We are broken is to begin with tonight. Police in texas on the scene of an active shooter at a mile north of dallas. Reports began coming in about 30 minutes ago. Since then, we have seen an active scene at the allen prime outlets, again, just north of dallas. Little information to report at this moment but police are on the scene, and they are investigating. Were told the atf is also on the scene as we learn more, we will bring it to you. And other news tonight, 16 defendants found guilty this week. The question before us now, will these high Profile Convictions do anything to deter the ongoing rise of right nationalism and rightwing militias that theyre in our democracy . This week, four members of the proud boys, the farright group at the center of the capital insurrection, were convicted on conspiracy charges. Among them, the group chairman, enrique tarrio. To be clear, he was found guilty of making a premeditated plan to overthrow or destroy the u. S. Government by force. These defendants now await sentencing, it could face up to 20 years in prison. But on friday, a federal judge also ended on the longest sentience yet for a general six defended. Peter shorts will now serve more than 14 years. You might recognize him from being the first to throw a Folding Chair of police officer. We also are awaiting sentencing for stewart rhodes, founder of the oath keepers. The doj seeking a 25 year sentence for his conviction of Seditious Conspiracy. Joining me now, Nbc National Security analyst Frank Figliuzzi, the author of the fbi way, inside the bureaus code of excellence. Also with us, msnbc legal analysts lisa rubin. Lisa, when oath keepers were convicted on similar charges last year, the Washington Post ran a headline i want to show you. It says, right wing white men are not usually convicted of Seditious Conspiracy, which highlights the significance of these newest convictions. Not that you have the leader of the proud boys convicted alongside several members of the group, what message does that send legally speaking to other white extremists . It sends a really harsh message, alicia, two other white extremists. The Washington Posts headline that you just quoted that set white men are not usually convicted of Seditious Conspiracy people and general are not usually convicted of Seditious Conspiracy. Its a statute that has been used very rarely and successfully to prosecute crimes for this. The fact that this is the third trial in which the department of justice has held white nationalists accountable for their actions on january six should have people standing up in attention in terms of thinking about their future conduct, as well as folks who have not been held accountable for the conduct on january six. This suggests that the most serious of charges can stick, even after a 15week trial, which jurors attentions were certainly dry. Well talk about those in a minute. Frank, you have these ongoing trials related to the insurrection, and yet, you still have the proud boys showing up at abortion clinics, showing up at hospitals, other public spaces with assault rifles. I wonder, because i come to you to sober things up, you think the outcomes of these trials actually deter these groups . This is a great question and one we can actually talk about from an intelligence perspective and from a historical perspective, we apply the International Terrorism model with alqaeda and i. S. I. S. When you take off leadership, right, and you eliminate the leadership. In this case, with the proud boys were talking about, some of these defendants facing maybe 50 years in prison, maybe taking a last breath with all of the combined charges in the federal prison. That clearly is having a glittering effect. You can look back at the manhattan appearance of donald trump in the hush money case and calling for protests but never generating protests, let alone violence. The chatter among the extremist groups is, hey, i dont want to get arrested. Theres been over a dozen people arrested for generous six. Combined the conspiracy charges with the proud boys and oath keepers, and you have a chilling effect. Heres the problem, theres also a bad outcome here for a reason of caution, and that is a decentralized leadership concern or no leadership concern which makes the task of law horsemen all that much harder, as they try to identify loan operators. For people going local, theres this phrase that we are going local, but under suits, go to the school board meetings, run for office and paid your maga extremists movement there in local movements. The challenge for Law Enforcement is virtually impossible. Lisa, you set in your first answer about others. There is the biggest mother of all, former president donald trump. How might these convictions complicates legal was . I think these convictions certainly involved in the special counsels office to persevere with their investigation. One of the things that i thought was interesting about this trial was that prosecutors made the point that this was no spontaneous uprising. These werent people who were just sort of motivated to violence and a random and spontaneous way, but that this was part of a plan. Then you have to ask yourself, who is on the other side of that plan . Who engage in that plant with them . Who motivated them to violence, if not in a spontaneous way but one that was well orchestrated over a number of weeks. The answer to that is donald trump and others in his inner circle. I think if i am jacks mitt, i feel very good about the outcome that the department of justice obtained here, and i feel even more secure in the continuation of my investigation on january six, with respect to donald trump and others in his inner most campaign and governance circles. Frank, i want you to take a listen to what a. G. Garland said about the proud boy convictions. Our work will continue. My Senate Confirmation hearing just over a month after january six, i promised that the Justice Department would do everything in its power to hold accountable those responsible for the heinous attack that sought to disrupt a cornerstone of our democracy, the Justice Department will never stop working to defend the democracy to which all americans are entitled. Frank, what does that say to you . You know, what i am hearing their, alicia, that this is not over yet, and we are willing to go anywhere to anybody that is responsible for this. When we look at the proud boys and oath keepers and the thousands of arrests so far, is to say that is the physical violence aspect of what has happened, but there is a whitecollar aspect of what happened. That is what jack smith is looking at. Hes looking at the paper plan, the strategy, the fake electors, the twisting of the arms on the phone call with georgia, all of that is being looked a. What a from garland is that this aint over it. Lisa, frank, or both staying with me. I want to go back to our Breaking News out of texas. Police are on the scene of an active shooter at a mile north of dallas. Reports have been coming in since 5 30, right before we came on air. While we dont know the extent of what is going on, we are told that the atf is investigating an active shooter at the allen prime outlets, just north of dallas. What you are watching, this is a live feed from the scene. Weve seen in the past few minutes people walking out with their hands up, presumably to indicate to authorities outside that they are not a target. Frank, i want to bring you back in here. You and i have sat here many times with as Little Information as we have now and watched a scene like this unfold to the first questions that run through your mind as an intelligence officer. First, we all know this, its early, and we dont know all the facts. I will tell you a few things, first, too early to report what were hearing on Police Scanners but officers are talking to each other. What i am hearing is that it is active, and it could be bad, alicia. We just need to let it play out and get the facts nailed down. Its texas. What is the significance of that . Last number first, texas implemented a new law that you dont need a permit, you dont need a license, you dont need training to carry and purchase a gun. That has put a lot more guns on the streets throughout texas, even the biggest flaw Forsman Organizations in texas came of vocally against the governor and State Legislatures. We dont like this new law. We dont like more concerned the streets. It makes communities less safe, makes the jobs a police less safe. Thats the environment were in, and we have been reporting on all kinds of things that are triggering people towards violence, people pulled in the wrong driveway, getting in the wrong car, knocking on the wrong door. In this environment, something could have set somebody off in a parking lot inside a store. We dont know if it was targeted, random, very early. The only thing we do know is that were experiencing a spike in the number of casualties. The fbi report on active shooters just out within the last couple of weeks, alicia, says that these things are getting more deadly. Theres more body count every time we have an active shooter. Another sliver of information we have, the atf being called in, what does that tell you . Well, its interesting. Its all Hands On Deck when you have these kinds of things. The atf is particular charge with the task of figuring out the role of the gun here. It might mean that the gun has already been found or taken off and offender, in which case, they will immediately start trying to track and trace that gun. Was it acquired lawfully, do they had the identity of the person . Was it reported stolen . There is a myth out there amongst most people, understandably, that there is a Magic Database where atf can take that serial number on the gun, punch in and, lo and behold, come up immediately with whose gun is. It just does not work that way. You know why . There is no such that a base. We dont require all of our can purchases to be entered into a Central Government database. Frank and lisa, youre staying with me. I want to bring into our conversation, Jim Kavanaugh, a retired atf officer and hostage negotiator, also msnbc terrace analysts. Jim, lets look frank, you and i have that year to many times before watching a scene like this one unfold. The fact that it is still an active scene, what does that tell you . Well, they dont have a handle on everything that is going on there quite yet. It looks like they got the forces there. I used to be the assistant special agent in charge of the dallas division. In fact, i lived just a few miles from allen, texas. I am familiar with the small police force and allen. Its in the column county, one of the Color Counties of dallas. Dallas is dallas county. This is collin county. Its a big suburban area. The sprawls go all the way out to allen. Its not hard to tell just exactly what is going on. Everything frank said is exactly right. Atf almost plays a various roles in these, like the fbi does. The basic rule is as investigators, just like fbi special agent, atf special agents, their main mission is almost criminal investigation. Theyre there to investigate, do interviews, help the police, perform their entire police function as needed. They also bring specialties, and the specialties are firearms and explosives. They could bring countries, is rapid gun traces, all kinds of exposes, resources to help locate and eliminate explosives. The fbi has a lot of this stuff to. The state police do to, other Police Agencies do to. You overlap and help each other, you increase each others abilities in every area of expertise when you have a lot of investigators on hand that can follow all the leads, secure buildings, serve Search Warrants, do all kinds of things. Atf is there. No doubt that fbi is there. Allen pd is there. And i am sure that plain old pd, which is a larger pd next to allen. And texas state troopers, dps, Texas Rangers all have a canopy of officers responding. You need them all because you dont know what the situation is right now. I will ask frank to come back and talk about what the correlation between those agencies look like. Before i do, jim, one of the other things we know based on this footage is that there were people inside the mall walking out with their hands up. What does that visual signal to you . That is on Scene Commanders trying to evacuate citizens. What theyve tournament is that the area that they are evacuating they, determined that they can be safe. They dont want to walk citizens through an area where they think a gunman will have shot on them or line on them. Officers will be ahead of them towards the more ahead of them, have secured an area where they know its safe to walk them out. They may not have found the gunman inside the mall. They may be searching now to clear the mall, locate, isolate, the shooter. They want to locate and isolate, evacuate behind that, and then eliminate the threat. That there is the shooter or multiple shooters. Eliminating the threat means arrest, surrender or having to shoot him. The on Scene Commanders, what theyre dealing with, alicia, its a chaos situation, and they have to make organization out of it. On the scene, theyll establish on seeing comment right there, and the ranking officers from all of the departments will go to that on scene comment. The captains and lieutenants of lmpd, plain old pd and the agents in charge of atf will go to that place to. That way, they can make decisions on how to deploy forces, what is needed. Look at the shooting that we just saw in atlanta, where the killer left the premises to the four minutes after murdering four others. He immediately skipped the building. Its not unusual. The Parkland Shooter did it as well. Many others have done as well. Sometimes, there is an active shooter or killer, and they commit suicide. Other times, to engage with the police. And other times, they escape. A lot has many means of a grass, so a person cant escape, but the on Scene Commanders, they dont know where the person is. That is their biggest drama, biggest dilemma. The thing at the top of the mind, where is the shooter or shooters . Where are they located . Locate is always the very first thing, even to the point where officers my after step over hundred people to locate the shooter or killer to stop them. For Audience Members that are just joining us, we are watching a report of an active shooter at a mall in allen, texas, north of dallas. Frank, i want to bring you back into the conversation, because we have been talking about the role of atf and fbi. Talk us through how these organizations are coordinating together a moment like this, the questions that they are each responsible for answering. As jim said, were talking about a because of the dallas metroplex. It means a Sophisticated Group of Law Enforcement that has rehearsed and partnered together many times over, sometimes even exercising within this particular mall, perhaps. They are familiar with each other. With regard to the fbi, i let field office, if i let this happen in my territory, i would be rolling out the Violent Crime scott first, have them out there assessing what they need is, what is going on . And if there is a need for more bodies, i would activate the crisis plan and start staging bodies. Id call my squat team leader, put the team on standby, you might be needed. And then i would text or call the chief in that district or town saying, what do you need, or here. If he says, i need help clearing a mall, then the swat team is going. They are going to partner with the other teams. What is the lead question for the fbi . Look, its terrorism. They roll out and their question is, was this committed for domestic or International Terrorism purposes . In which case, they Start Talking about whos got the lead. It is way too early to talk about that, but the question has to be answered. People say, why the fbi . Its not just bodies, not just investigators, its, hey, why did this happen . If it is domestic or International Terrorism or even smells like a, youll see an increased fbi presence. Jim, atf dallas confirming that there are personal on the scene that will release details as soon as they can. Jim, the push and pull here, right, people have a lot of questions. People have a lot of answers. Atf needs to make sure that they get this right. Where are the conversations like happening internally about how much information to release and one . We always gathered the commanders together in situations like this, and we decide, what we will put up to the public, what will help the investigation . Initially, its only what is going to keep the people safe and what will help locate the killer or killers. That is the thing at the top of your mind. Youve got to save lives. That is what your main mission is. If you can put some information out that will help you stop the killer, catch the killer, you put that out immediately. The Public Information officers were gathered to.