Inaugural campaign and what did they get for their money . This is the president who was prepared to roll out the staff, and the goal he had in the inauguration was to raise his hand and take the oath. Good day, everyone. Im Andrea Mitchell in washington. And Michael Cohen sending a clear message to donald trump, and in an abc news interview of what he told special investigator mueller. Why should we believe you you now . Because the special counsel believed the information i gave them was credible, and there is a substantial amount of evidence that proves i am telling the tru truth. And a joining us is msnbc contributor Kristen Welker and attorney barbara quaid, and also matt miller who was former chief spokesman for attorney general eric holder. And so lets talk about the conflicting stories, and Michael Cohen, a key witness against the president , and he says that there is more backup, and we obviously think that there are tapes because we have heard some of them. And we have heard some of them, andrea, and it is remarkable to hear from Michael Cohen for the First Time Since the sentencing on wednesday. He essentially disputed something that we heard from President Trump yesterday in his interview with fox news in which the president said that he did not direct Michael Cohen to make those hush money payment, and Michael Cohen said that he did and there is proof to back it up, and andrea, we were able to read through the Court Documents filed last week which underscores the point. So we have been pressinging the white house officials about that, Deputy Press Secretary hogan gidley who is saying, look, Michael Cohen is someone who has acknowledged lying, and so he is not believable. But, again, the problem with that argument, andrea, is that cohen says that there is kr corroborating evidence. This is something that is increasingly engulfing this president and white house and we saw it yesterday when the president lashed out angrily in the interview, and he said that the only mistake that he made was in hiring Michael Cohen in the first place. So this is becoming not only a growing legal, but a growing political problem for this president , andrea. Barbara, what about the legal aspects of this with the president claiming first of all, and saying incorrectly, that this is a civil case and not a criminal case. And then the other defense that the edwards case, john edwards of course, show that this, you cant take this to court, and Rudy Giuliani has been on that as well. And les do a little Fact Checking here. Yeah, sure. Sometimes there are civil infractions related to Campaign Finance violations, typically for technical violations, you turned in the paperwork late or made an error in the math or omitted unintentionally omitted the documentation that should have been here sh, and those ar the kind of things that get handled civilly and with a fine, and instead, you are using criminal intent and intent to deceive and defraud is when it comes into the realm of a criminal case. And proving willfulness is the tricky part, but it sounds like what Michael Cohen is saying in the presence of the ami witnesses and recordings could establish that evidence of willfulness. The other piece, the socalled john edwards defense is that he said i made the payment not the violate the Campaign Finance law, but i wanted to save my wife the personal embarrassment, and that could be a plausible theory here as well, but it sou sounds like the evidence suggests that is not the case. What Michael Cohen said today there is a conversation with President Trump, and they knew it cams on the heels of the access Hollywood Tape where it was revealed that he had made disparaging comments about women, and it would be devastating for the two news sto stories to come out before the election, and so the decision was made that it is necessary to make these payments to influence the election, and that is going to make pit the heart of the criminal violation, if it is true. And that is what Michael Cohen you just with referenced had to say to George Stephanopoulos on abc. He was trying to hide what you were saying, correct . Correct. And he knew it was wrong . Of course. And he was doing that to help his election . You have to remember at what point in time that this matter came about two weeks or so with before the election, and post the billy bush comments. So, yes, he was very concerned about how this would affect the election election. To help his campaign. To help him and the campaign. Matt miller, how serious is this . How do you respond to the white house saying that this is a minor thing and it is not something that people care about and it is not actionable, and even trying to say it is not a felony. Well, it is a crime, and we should not be coming up with the hierarchy of crimes that are serious and less serious and it is serious if the president commit nis crime. And this is not a it is a High Standard that we should hold a president to. And what we have seen in the past few days is that the president is shifting defenses and moving from one to another as it is falling apart that. He didnt have it at all and he did not have the affairs and did not pay the hush money, and this is not true. Then move nod the john edwards defense to avoid personal embarrassment and we have evidence that is not true, and we know it, because when he satt in the meeting in august of 2015 with the publish of the National Enquirer he did not say, what can you do to help me to avoid personal embarrassment, but he asked what can you do to help my campaign. And then Michael Cohen is my attorney and i had no knowledge. I didnt know it was a crime. I thought it was okay. And so Michael Cohen significantly undermined it when he said that it is wrong and the president said that he used him for p. R. And not legal work, and so the very last defense at all is that it is not a serious crime. It is not a legal argument that is not ultimately an appeal to congress if you ever get to impeachment that the president cannot be indicted and this is a political matter and these are not high crimes and misdemeanors. And kristen, the president in that one interview with fox was trying to have it both ways saying, well, he is my lawyer, and my lawyer is expected to know these thing, and so it is not up to me, and to tell my lawyer what to do, although it is up to him to tell the lawyer what to do, and in the with one way he is saying he is my lawyer and then not my lawyer and doing pr and communications and lowlevel stuff, and so there is no lawyer client privilege and we can talk to him about everything that took place with you, and so perhaps that is a rabbit hole they dont want to go down. You are right, andrea, and speaking to the broader point that matt is making, and not only do the explanations keep shifting in terms of what he keeps doing in terms of the hush money payments, but the relationship with the lawyer and how he is characterizing it keeps shifting and remember when he first started talking about Michael Cohen, he was defensive of him until Michael Cohen flipped. All of that has flip and he has of course gone into the counter punching mode trying to not only lash out, and can discredit Michael Cohen, but to downplay the entire relationship, and what is notable, andrea, we are seeing this president try to take over his own communication strategy, and time will tell as to whether it is working, but he is really taking the reins here, and that is striking given the fact that this is a growing crisis. Typically, you would see his Communications Team out front and center. We have not had a briefing in several weeks. It has been the president taking the lead on the messaging about all of this, andrea. And at the same time, david pecker, and this is another element brought into it this week, the cooperation that we knew was taking place with the tabloid, the catch and kill process. Barba barbara, how damaging is it that cohen who is, you know, been pleaded guilty to lying to the perjury to congress, so he can be attacked on the stand, but you have david pecker, this long time friend of the president s also as another corroborating witness to what was alleged there. Yes, andrea, corroboration is important when you are using a krob ray or the of someone who corroborate someone who is pleading guilty of getting a benefit for their testimony. So one of the things that you have to ask yourself, does their testimony line up with testimony of other witnesses, documents or other evidence, and here, i think that david peck ser someone who is not biased against President Trump, but in fact, a ally of President Trump, and so he would have enhanced credibility there. Is also reporting that another employee of a publisher of ami was also involved in the the meetings, and Alan Weissenberg might also have more corroborating testimony. And as we heard from matt, the shifting stories can demonstrate some evidence of willfulness, and you only lie when you know you have done something wrong, and so in combination, all of these things are pointing to Michael Cohen is credible according to factfinders looking at the evidence as it lines up. And one other piece from Michael Cohen, he is not finished yet. Watch this. How does this end for donald trump . You know, that is sort of getting tointo the whole investigation right now between, you know, the special counsels offi office, the attorney generals office, and you know, the South District of new york. I dont want to jeopardize any of their investigations. He still has a story to tell. Yes, he is fighting on too many fronts. Michael cohen who is cooperating with the Southern District of new york into the president s alleged Campaign Finances, and also, the Campaign Finances, and he is not the only one co cooperating, because so is mike flynn and rick gates is cooperating with sndy investigation and of course in coordination into the president ial campaign, and also, another investigation going out today. And so they are going through methodical to flipping them and getting them to testify against a broad scheme of criminality. That means that you need a chief of staff and legal team around you, and more to come on all of that. And thank you so much, matt miller and Barbara Mcquaid and kristen miller. And as we say, celebrity apprentice, and who are the finalists in the chief of staff search . You are watching Andrea Mitchell reports. N Car Insurance . They helped with homeowners, too ok plus motorcycle, boat and rv insurance geicos got you covered like a blanket houston . You seeing this . Geico. 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Attorney sent Jared Kushners father to prison. And another choice, the 2016 Campaign Manager david bossie expected to the white house today and allel three of them met with the president yesterday about the job according to reports, and now, don mere and andy card, the former chief of staff in the george w. Bush administration, and both of them nbc political analysts. And so, jonathan your latest reportings or the hunches or whatever we are going on as we continue to report on something that is not possible to report since we dont know what is basically in the president s head. That is right. And first of all, there is an element of the theeter of the absurd here as we have seen celebrities from jose canseco and piers morgan raise their hand, and some more serious than others. And so he has not settled on the replacement. He thought that heed with one lined up last week, nick ayers who was all set to take it, but they disagreed about how long he would stay in the post, and then he bowed out and leaving the president in a awkward position leaving john kelly here in a lame duck. You hit on some of the names menti mentioned Chris Christie, and Jared Kushner, of course, already a white house job, and some suggestion that while he would want to do the chief of staff role when he does have a pretty expansive portfolio, and christi e, of course shg Chris Christie who was apparently fired and some bad blood and also prosecuted Jared Kushners father in new jersey and sent him to prison, and david bossie who is expected to come today and e hogan gidley said that he expets the president s decision to be soon, but he wouldt not offer a exact timetable. All of this as the president needs to gear up from the democratic on slaulgt of investigative committees with onslaught of investigative committees coming on board with the democrats in january. And what is all of this going to do to challenge the chief of sta staff . Well, it is going to challenge a chief of staff, but i would say for the names, you should be careful about having a soninlaw as a chief of staff, because you need somebody na you can fire. And that is important, because you may want to change person personalities, and you may want to fire the next chief of staff, so dont hire someone that you cant fire. Secondly, there is hardlines especially when the president is going the enter the political season in addition to all of the investigations, and lines that people cant cross. You cant cross the line of being his personal attorney. You are working for the government. You cant cross the line for being the Campaign Manager, because the campaign is run by people who are not in government. You dont want to violate the hatch act, and can you want to set the example of not violating the hatch act. So i would say, david bossie, Jared Kushner, and neither one of them should be there, because bossie would attempt to be the Campaign Manager, and you cant let that happen, and the people around him would have to know that there is a hardline, and we are guard to chris krchristi and he may be the most eligible chief of staff, because he understand understands the role of political leader, and he understands the role of the executive leader and he understands the role of an attorney, and he understands the role of the prosecutor, and so, maybe he is the best of the bunch that is out there. But i would be careful. This is going to be a challenging time for the white house who is going to be needing a lot of discipline on the staff to do their job rather than preoccupied with trying to address an investigation or remove a cloud or get involved in a Campaign Stay there. To do their job for the American People to help the president to do his job. And this photo from the White House Christmas reception that Reince Priebus tweet ed out whih shows a smiling john kelly and a smilin