Couples. A Vatican Panel of bishops says its time to salute the moral value of both. Yes, the walls of jericho are quaking me. Michael steele, who was on the way to becoming a priest, and Washington Post opinion Writer Jonathan capehart. Its the recognition of the value of samesex relationships, whether in law, polling, or word of mouth. Now the Catholic Church has joined in. A panel of bishops wrote, without denying the moral problems connected to homosexual unis it has to be noted there are cases in which mutual aid to the point of sacrifice constitutes a precious support in the life of partners. When you talk about this, this recognition of goodness in gays, thats what it is. Its breathtaking. Im used to a Catholic Church and a papacy that talks about gays and lesbians with all sorts of negative language, negative tone, sneering tone, unwelcoming. And ever since pope francis ascended to the papacy, theres been a shift, a tone. He talks about us as if we are fullfledged, you know, children of god, people who deserve respect and dignity. He did that in an interview a year ago with america magazine, and you take these the interview that he did on the plane, coming back from a trip where he said, you know, who am i to judge . Thats what set this off in the america magazine interview, which is just a man talking. With the sin id going on and with this draft coming out from this twoweek meeting so far, were seeing it move from rhetoric, to not policy, because i dont expect the Catholic Church to change 2,000 years of belief in teaching, but a document that talks about, that recognizes gay relationships what do you mean . Youre gay, what did it mean to you . It meant that an institution that means a lot to billions of people around the world, recognizes me as and values me as a fullfledged child of god. Im not catholic. I am christian. I was raised christian. But to see an institution, thats spend centuries denigrating people like me, to see it turn, at least in tone, with this one man, pope francis, is pretty remarkable. It seems to me what theyve dp, the popes leadership and the bishops following it, is to shift from a focus on sexual behavior if you will, or attraction, or identity even, to commonality. Not even commonality, but personhood. And thats the real focus of this document. And its underpinnings are anchored in the individual, the person, and the family. And how the person is as much as a part of the family as the family is as a whole. The focus in the past has been about the collective of the family. But here the pope and the bishops, theyre looking at the individuals and how they make the family. And i think that is a profound mark away from where the church has been in these types of conflicts. These are signs of change in our culture. Ive said we all have said this. The biggest cultural change in our generations, we have a little span here, but is this recognition of the humanity of gay people . Right. It wasnt like this. There was gay jokes 20 years ago that were assemble. New york Cardinal Timothy dolan who is no liberal, but years of resistance, who just last month supported gay groups marching as such, under their own banner in the parade. The headline was gay groups in st. Pattys day parade, all right with cardinal dolan. Hes such a regular guy. Its almost like the mayor of new york has said it, but we know that. But the cardinal of new york, its a big deal. And it was a precursor of what were seeing played out now at the senate. Put it in context. You touched on it. Doctrinally, nothing changes, but the way we look to integrate divorced catholics, gay and lesbian couples and individuals into the doctrine of the church, into the face of the church is profoundly important and thats what this pope wants more than anything else. Not only with the gay element, which is enormous, but a lot of people got stuck with the wrong partner in straight marriage. Gay marriage too. That will be discovered. I mean hatred relationships, horror relationships. I knew a couple women who married guys, they were beautiful courtships, within months, they were beating them up. So they had to escape that. Nobody can believe thats a blessed marriage. Then they find out and the church is saying, good for you. Youre a good person. Youre going to be okay. Were not going to exclude you because you got into the wrong thing. A really good marriage is a wonderful thing. Its not always the norm. I mean, this gets back to what michael was just saying about how it seems as though the church is looking at the individual, that this person has something. This person who was in the church who feels alienated from the church for one reason or another, not welcome because theyre gay, not welcome because theyre divorced, or they have a child out of marriage, not welcome fill in the blank. Now you have a church and a pope who is saying, we with have millions of catholics out there who no longer feel like theyre catholic, no longer feel welcome in the church because of something that is inherently part of who they are, or because they got themselves in a situation where they had to escape, as you said. We go to church and i never heard a priest say, goaway if youre guy. They dont say go away if youre divorced. But in effect, its just nice to make it official and have the pope come out and say, youre welcome. Youre part of us. Thats a big deal. The emphasis of the document that they released, pushes down to the parish. It recognizes that, how do we begin to help those divorced catholics be whole within the catholic faith . Its for the parish to embrace them and put in place the structure a very conservative father can be very tough. Remember the movie doubt . The mothers afraid to tell the husband because hes kill the kid if he said he was gay. Anyway, that will change. We didnt even get to the Republican Party and your platform, but well get there. [ all speak at once ] i think there are lessons for Political Parties in what this pope is doing, in recognizing that this is not about a party structure. Leave those matters to the church and the community and the individuals to work out. You stick to your politics, and i think theyll be better off for it. I think they got enough to handle with abortion exactly. Always Something Worthy of moral debate. Great to have you on. Your openness about this is wonderful. Great were talking about this. 10, 20 years ago, this wasnt something you chatted about. You think i wanted to chat about it 20 years ago . [ laughter ] no. I dont know where do go with that one. Anyway, thank you both. Up next, fireworks in kentucky. Mcconnell and grimes buttheads in their only debate. And she still wont say who she voted for for president the last couple times, she met mitch blow for blow, and thats coming up right away. G your vehicle maintenance to ford service confidence. Our expertise, technology, and high quality parts means your peace of mind. Its no wonder last year we sold over three million tires. And during the big tire event, get up to 140 in mailin rebates on four select tires. receptionist Gunderman Group is growing. Getting in a groove. Growth is gratifying. Goal is to grow. Gotta get greater growth. I just talked to ups. They got expert advise, special discounts, new technologies. Like smart pick ups. Theyll only show up when you print a label and its automatic. We save time and money. Time . Money . Time and money. Awesome. Awesome awesome awesome awesome all awesome i love logistics. 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Welcome back to hardball. Three weeks to go until election day. Things are getting nasty. Last night candidates went for the chin in the only Kentucky Senate debate. As expected, the big question there was the one Alison Lundergan grimes refused to answer. And in texas, wendy davis has gone nuclear. Digging in after a flood of negative press about a grisly ad she ran which highlights her opponent being in a wheelchair. And jim carol is the Washington Bureau chief. Lets start with the big headline in kentucky where Alison Lundergan grimes is on her own because today the news broke that the campaign arm for democrats in the senate has pulled out in order to focus on other races. But first the drama from last night. Leading up to the debate, the Mcconnell Campaign released this ad on tv for dodging a question about who she voted for in the last president ial election. Alison Lundergan Grimes refusal to say who she voted for for president is now the nonanswer heard round the country. Did you vote for president obama in 2008 and 2012 . You know, this election she refused to answer. Dodging whether she voted for president obama. And kentuckians expect her to cast a tough vote on anything . Is she ever going to answer a tough question on anything . Are you not going to answer . Im Mitch Mcconnell and i approved this message. I think she disqualified herself, i really do. Well, heres now grimes responded somewhat in last nights debate. Why are you reluctant to give an answer on whether or not you voted for president obama . Bill, theres no reluctance. This is a matter of principle. Our constitution grants here in kentucky the constitutional right for privacy at the ballot box, for a secret ballot. You have that right, senator mcconnell has that right. Every kentuckian has that right. And as the chief election official, im tasked with overseeing and making sure that were enforcing all of our lekz laws. So you wont answer that question dont . Again, you have that right. Senator mcconnell has that right. Every kentuckian has the right for privacy at the ballot box. If we dont stand up for that right, who in kentucky will . I dont think theres ever been a debate over the right to keep secret how you vote. Its the question, why would you do that . If youre asking people to vote for you. Wont she have to say when she pushes people to vote for hillary, that shes going to vote for hillary . Whats this weird secrecy about . I dont get it. She was clear she voted for hillary, and that wasnt private. So why is this one . Why is it so hard to say, i voted for the democrat because im a democrat. They stand for the middle class, raise the minimum wage. To me, it ties into another problem that shes had, the deep reluctance to talk about the benefits of obamacare in kentucky. Which last night she was willing to do a little. Keyed up. Yeah. And she could have hit mcconnell hard and said, wait a minute, we have kentucky, we have obamacare here and its working. Why didnt she jump in . I dont know why she didnt jump in. Mcconnell tried to separate the two and say that obamacare was something different. Tear it out root and branch, but leave connect which is the Obamacare Program in kentucky and he said sure thats fine, its just a website. He stumbled when answering questions about his own vow to repeal obamacare root and branch. Obamacare which is called kentucky connect in the state has been a big success and heres mcconnell. Has obamacare and connect been a boon or bane for the majority of kentuckians, senator . Kentucky connect is a website. It was paid for by 200 someodd Million Dollar grant from the federal government. The website can continue. But in my view, the best interest of the country would be achieved by pulling out obamacare root and branch, and let me tell you why. You would support the continuation of its a state decision. You would support it . I think its fine to have a website, yeah. I think thats what you call in objective terms, bs. Anyway, obamacare is kentucky connect. Steve bashir made that ont point on our own show. Take a look at the governor. Is obamacare, as implemented in the state of kentucky, basically called connect, ky for kentucky. In other words, you cant get rid of one, without getting rid of the other. They are one and the same. Thats exactly right. You get rid of the Affordable Care act and Everything Else falls apart. Jim, why is he doing this . Going after alison, lets be fair. Why is mitch hiding from the obvious truth here . One word, its obama. He wants everything tide to Alison Grimes as closely as possible. Thats the same reason she didnt answer who she voted for. Do you think she voted for obama . We dont know. It opens a can of worms. Is she one of those people who wouldnt vote for him because hillary lost . Her first answer, which i find fascinati fascinating, when he was asked, she said, im a clinton democrat. How did that come up . It wasnt the question put to her. We talk about dog whistle politics, this is a case where shes signaling to the democrats in kentucky we got to talk texas. In texas, wendy davis is standing by an ad that she put on the air that generated a frenzy of criticism. A tree fell on greg abbott, he sued and got millions. Since then, he spent his career working against other victims. Abbott argued a woman whose leg was amputated was not disabled because she had an artificial limb. He ruled against a rape victim who sued a corporation for failing to do a background check on a sexual predator. He sided with a hospital who failed to stop a dangerous surgeon who paralyzed patients. Greg abbott, hes not for you. Last night he responded to the ad. Lets watch that. If she wants to attack a guy in a wheelchair, thats her prerogative. For me, im running a different type of campaign. It shows that her campaign is focused on one thing, and that is attacking me and addressing me. What texans really want, they want a governor who has a vision for their fellow texans and for a brighter future. What do you make of that . I mean roosevelt was in a wheelchair. And even as dirty as politics can be, i dont think republicans were stupid enough to attack roosevelt for being in a wheelchair . Image wise, it doesnt click with me. No, it must be said, though tell me the point. Theres an hypocrisy argument here that in texas its very hard for regular people to sue companies where are the trial lawyers putting their money . With the democrats. But in texas, its become more difficult than anywhere else in the country. Are there caps . There are caps. So its tort reform. But it was not there when he got but its a popular position, tort reform, it sounds good. Is it or not . When you tell people its harder to get a settlement than it was for him when he got his, its a touchy place to go. Shes not going to win the election with this thing. Thats what the polls show. I think this is like the picking the daisy ad it will be shown in Campaign Schools for decades. Shes a young woman, obviously, a beginner in politics. Alison grimes has great potential. What i like about her is her presentation, the way that shes strong, she physically confronts and she comes off as sort of a joan of arc figure if you will. But a strong figure. Which is one of the things that i have thought, made me think she had a shot against mitch mccom. She really talks with vim and vigor. Like you and me. Exactly. Which is why i wondered why she wasnt cut loose by the campaign. Maybe shes too controlled. Maybe somebody said dont tell the people who you voted for. When do you know to cut loose . She could have cut loose on obamacare. Saying why is mitch not being honest about this law. You know the trouble getting an interview with her . This limited media access would be the kind way to put it. She knows what she wants to talk about, but doesnt have a tremendous amount of experience. Is that fair . Thats fair. She has her talking points. She thinks if she sticks with them, she has a reasonable chance. And lets face it, this race is very close. And it shouldnt be. This state romney carried easily. But its Mitch Mcconnell. You wrote a book about it. Is she the opposite of joe biden . Isnt that an interesting joe biden makes mistakes, because hes the scrambler. Shes a quarterback in the pocket. Doesnt take crazy runs with the ball. Biden is always running with the ball. Remember his line that got great laughs, have drink with mcconnell . Really, you have drinks with mcconnell and everybody laughed. Everybody wants to have drinks with biden because who knows whats going to happen. Great debate, i think she was really strong. I dont get the secrecy about who you voted for. Anyway, thank you both. Up next, south dakota, and the independent Senate Candidate who actually im rooting for, who has turned what was once a sure thing for republicans into the surprise of the year. This is hardball, a place for politics. 24 7 its just im a little reluctant to try new things. Whats wrong with trying new things . Feel that in your muscles . Yeah. I do. Try a new way to bank, where no branches equals great rates. Dad,thank you mom for said this oftprotecting my future. You. Thank you for being my hero and my dad. Military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa Auto Insurance could be one of them. If youre a current or former military member or their family, get an Auto Insurance quote and see why 92 of our members plan to stay for life. Dad hes our broker. He helps looks after all our money. Kid do you pay him . Dad of course. Kid how much . Dad i dont know exactly. Kid what if youre not happy . Does he have to pay you back . Dad