99. 1. Our thanks for al hunt for sitting in, john helemann out on the road. Thanks for watching. Coming up, hardball with Chris Matthews. Dump trump hits bump. Lets play hardball. Good evening, im Chris Matthews in washington. The dump trumpers are now out in force. Unfortunately for them, they have no idea how to do it. Mitt romney, who backed john kasich in ohio, now says hell vote for cruz in utah. Cruz says kasich has to quit, or the game is over. Kasich says he wont take vp from trump, or hillary. Then refused to say which he would like least. I just caught up with the Ohio Governor out in utah, where he is trying to win the caucuses
this tuesday. Thank you for joining us tonight, governor kasich. Thank you, chris. There are now just three candidates in the Republican Party right now. Donald trump, ted cruz, and you. Today, mitt romney, the nominee last time who campaigned for you in ohio last week, said today hell vote for ted cruz in the utah caucuses. He said i like governor john kasich, ive campaigned with him. He has a solid record as governor. I would have voted for him in ohio. But i vote for a governor kasich in future contests make it extremely likely trumpism would prevail. What is your reaction to that news today . Well, i dont agree with that. And you know, by the way, im running for president , because i have first of all the best resume and record, and secondly, im the only one of the three that can win a general election and beat Hillary Clinton. So we just put one foot in front of the other and keep moving, and you know, i campaigned with mitt, i like mitt, and its a place where we disagree. Lets try to figure out what
ted cruz is up to. First of all, there was going to be a three way debate this coming monday, a fox debate. Of course, trump pulled out and then you did. Why didnt you stay in the debate and take on ted cruz mono o mono. Because i think, chris, there is three of us, and we ought to have all three in the debate. Take the frontrunner and move him out doesnt make any sense. I can be in a position of campaign in a much more retail way, which im very happy to do. You mean you would rather be out in utah than a debate studio somewhere. I think this is, look, if trump wants a d he bait, ill be there. If he doesnt, you got three people. It shouldnt be two of the three. Its the way it ought to be worked out. Ill spend this time doing what i consider to be productive. Ted cruz is calling for you to drop out. He says youre hurting the chances to stop donald trump. Im sure youre familiar with this, but lets listen. I con grat legratulate john for winning his home state, but if you dont have a clear path to winning, it doesnt make sense to stay in the race. I would note, everyday he stays in, benefits donald trump. What about this stop donald trump thing . I caught it all the time. I heard it from pat buchanan, Richard Nixon once said if you heard a stop x movement, bet on x. I dont know what a stop movement ends up looking like . What does this mean, youre going to team up, i assume he wants to be on top of it and somehow thats going to marshall enough support to get trump off the momentum. Nobody is going to get to the convention in my judgment with enough delegates. Then well pick the nominee through the process. I mean, just because you dont have somebody that has enough delegates doesnt mean you dont have the process. Thats why you have convention. So the convention will sit down and theyll decide who can win in the fall. And who has the record and who could run the country. Its just a Big National Story today, we go to a convention, theyre likely to turn to me because of the ability to win and bring people together. So look, i understand. I just dont think anybody is going to get there with enough delegates, and so well ultimately have somebody chosen for the delegate whose will represent the Republican Party. Everybody just needs to calm down. Well, you know, youre talking about the Republican Party, maybe the Democratic Party of the 194s or early, but ever since the 50s, nobody is used to the idea of the candidate with the most delegates not winning. The guy coming in or woman coming into the convention is expected to win. Trump says there will be riots if he doesnt get the nomination, if he has the most delegates. Well, thats irresponsible statement, you know. I was there in 1976, when Ronald Reagan challenge would gerald ford. I was a young man and it was a hard fight. At the end, the convention came together. Reagan didnt win and ford did. At the end of the day, its a very serious process. These delegates take it very seriously. I know, because i work to get delegates to support Ronald Reagan. It will be a great speerps. It will be good forexperience. It will be good for our country. You could imagine the situation, because youre still in the race, trump is a couple of votes shy, couple shun shy, he doesnt get the gimme. Basically since the 40s, 40s, i guess, and you have number of ballots, at the end, you win. Thats your scenario . Yeah i mean unless he is close, maybe hell maybe hell get the delegates. But look, chris, at the end of the day, whats most important for me is im running for president , because i have a record of success, a record of achievement a record of creating an even virement for job growth, pulling people together, and the convention is just another vehicle that a political party
uses to decide who they want to have as the standard bearer. Im very comfortable with that. I dont think anybody will get there. By the way, you know, for these people to say i should drop out, you know, theyve been calling me for that for weeks, a lot of the establishment people, if i dropped out, trump would have the nomination, he would have won ohio. Its just talk, political talk. Thats what makes it interesting. What about glenn beck, he is one of the people youre talking about, chattering out there. He has accused of you putting the wellbeing of the country at risk by staying in the race. Here is the inevitable glenn beck. Kasich, i mean, excuse me language, but you son of a bithh. The repub lilic is at state. This is not a normal rails. The republic is at stake. Well, glenn beck is not usually on my dance card, so im not going to vouch for him. What do you make of these people, talking like youre the trouble when in fact, youve got the resume . Youve got the qualifications. Somehow, ted cruz and his troop have decided that youre the problem, not donald trump . Im not going to respond to that kind of vulgarity, personal attack directed at me. Thats just out of bounds. Okay, lets talk substance for a minute. They picked up the last, one of the real key players actually in a terrible november bombings in paris up in belgium in that area, a refuge for the terrorists. What does that tell us about the fight against international attacks by isis . Well, you know, chris, what it brings to mind is the fact that when the Intelligence Community works with the local Law Enforcement, we can have success, which brings up the notion of really good intelligence. Particularly, human intelligence. Everybody working together. Thats why we have to work
together so carefully in terms of those people who may be migrating from places, you know, who joined isis or who went to countries that are really, really problem areas. We need to know who they are. We need to know what theyre doing. It shows that when Law Enforcement and Intelligence Community can Work Together effectively, we can have good results. How about the relationships among countries . We had a terrible period back during and after the iraq war, where we were told to eat freedom fries, not french fries, because were so hostile to the french for not backing us in the iraq war. How do you bring the countries together . What brings us together that didnt bring us together in the last war. Selfinterests. I think now, clearly, people understand that radical islam is a problem. All the countries in the middle
east, the ee ggyptians, when we look at france, Great Britain or germany, the crisis we see with migrants, what we see happening in belgium, we now begin to see an opportunity to bring people together. And this idea of calling names and all that, really doesnt make sense when it relates to international affairs. And if you have a problem with the country, most of the time, nearly all of the time, you express those concerns privately, not in front of a television camera. Lets talk about cuba. The president is making history for going to havana. Would you have done that, if you were the president right now . No, i wouldnt, chris. I think its too much we give and they take. I would like to see them give. Release these political prisoners, you know. They released some when the pope came and then put them back in jail. They have to make steps forward as far as im concerned as to how we treat cuba. Last question, may hit you as a novelty, under pressure and
fighting for the presidency. Should the situation develop differently in your hopes and scenario, and Hillary Clinton gets the democratic nomination, which looks likely right now and your party has trump and hillary comes to you and says governor, i would like to form a unity ticket, vicepresident to you. Thats my answer. Thats not going to happen. Suppose trump says well be fine. I have to push you as you laugh. If trump is the nominee, would you accept a part of the ticket . Would you go on the ticket with him . Under no circumstances. Zero. No chance. What would be worst, you with hillary or you with trump . What would you like least . I would have to reflect on that. Okay, well, ill give you sometime. Thats a take home. Thank you very much. Good question. There you go. All right, chris, thank you. Governor john kasich, out in utah. All right. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Coming up, inside the republican to stop trump at the convention in cleveland. New information tonight about what the party types are thinking of doing if trump doesnt have the delegates needs to win the nomination out right. Plus, Bernie Sanders says he is not going any where. He is vowing to fight on. But with Hillary Clinton tightening her grip, what does he get staying in the race. A big war on belgium police, captured the fugitive in the paris attacks. Latest tonight. Conservatives say they want a unity ticket to stop donald trump, but what if Hillary Clinton named a republican running mate in an effort to unify the country. Unpreside unprecedented move, but could it be the ticket that keeps trump out of the white house. This is hardball, the place for politics. Jay knows how to keep nice shorts, dad. G. This is what the pros wear. Uhhh. Thats why he starts his day with those two scoops in heart healthy kelloggs raisin bran. Ready to eat my dust . Too bad i already filled up on raisins. Kelloggs raisin bran. Deliciously heart healthy. Frodoers dont stop. Wake up, every day is a chance to do something great. And for the ones they love, theyd do anything. Sears optical has glasses made for doing. Right now, buy one pair and get another free. Quality eyewear for doers. Sears optical. We have new polling for Emerson College for new york primary, its good news for the home state candidates. Lets take a look at the hardball scoreboard. On the republican side, donald trump leads cruz by a whooping
52 points, trump 64, cruz, 12. Democratic side, former new york senator Hillary Clinton also holds the lead, 71 of the vote to 23 for Bernie Sanders. Well be right back. Welcome back to hardball, with the big news, mitt romneys announcement hell vote for ted cruz in utah. Donald trump has responded via twitter, quote, failed president ial candidate mitt romney, the man who choked, and let us all down now endorsesing lying ted cruz. This is good for me. Mixed up man who doesnt have a clue. No wonner he lost. Romney has made clear his number one goal was to stop donald trump, of course, even if it means fighting it out at the convention. Politico says if they try to
grab the nomination from trump at the convention, there could be open warfare, quote, youre going to push the Big Red Button and blow up the party at least in the short time. Its asinine. It really is. Im joined by paul singer and jane. First of all, youre out there report, so report. What is there, a Cohesive Group of people who actually have a conceivable plan to deny trump if he is short by 100 or 200 delegates. There is a stop trump, theyre not very unified, and this has always been the establishments problem from the get go. If they were unified, picked one candidate to go against him, they wouldnt be in this position to begin with and having the same problem now. You still have kasich and cruz. You is it i will have, you know, people who say it should be another candidate altogether. Some other guy thats going to parachute at the 11th hour. Until they get on the same page,
theyre never going to be effectively stop donald trump, which is why theyre not being effective stopping donald trump. Theyre not giving out the nobel peace prize. They would rather have no nominee, because theyre so negative on trump, they have no counter balancing hope. Look, i ran a story today about some of the things donald trump has said over the past decade that are not republican positions. He is pro gay march ridriage. They dont believe he is a republican, and he believes the things they believe. The problem is, people are voting for him. If they pull one of these in the convention, theyre going to have to turn around to their grass root supporters, you guys got it wrong, let us pick the nominee. One of the organizers of the group, eric erickson, here he is. Strong coalition of looking at going to the existing
candidates, kasich, cruz, saying you need to cut a deal, find a unity ticket within the Republican Party, fall back option would be a third party, the consensus is everyone would rather settle this on the convention floor. Mike huckabee who dropped out last month said that would hand the election to Hillary Clinton. And destroy the Republican Party. What eric ericson just said. I thought we had voters. I thought thats what we do. I wanted to be the nominee, but guess what, im not. Im not going to start a third party. Im not going to blow up the Republican Party, because i didnt get my way. I accept that in an election, voters get to make the decision. This is so crazy, jay, because in the first debate, the reagan library, they asked will you all support the nominee of the party. The only one that wouldnt was donald trump, now anybody but trump is talking about dumping the nominee. If you could parachute
somebody in at the 11th hour, Lindsey Graham said he would leave the party if that happened. It would blow up the party. So much tour mill, trying to union night the party, and thats the month youre supposed to be running against Hillary Clinton. They would try to get their own base back, right. Lindsey is going to leave, im leaving. Our colleague here interviewed 19 of the 56 rules committee, most of those members say they opposed any rule change that would allow a new candidate like paul ryan to emerge at the convention. One person said change the rules drastically, youll have a problem. World war and destroy the party. Heres the question. I think like kasich, but when Start Talking about bringing in somebody, this third or fourth ballot, the 1940s, most recently, because ever since 52, the person coming in won. Yes. And they won on the first ballot, even the gerry ford and
reagan. Are you going to pick somebody who has gotten no votes from the Republican Voters. Didnt even contest it . Didnt try to get any votes. Elector al college trying to pick a new guy. Lets talk about it from the democratic point of view. If you are a progressive, democratic, what do you want to happen . What do you want to happen in the Republican Party. For them, its a win win scenario. If donald trump is the nominee, then he drives out democrats enormously. He drives out the base. But he also reimagines the map. The electoral map is redrawn and you dont know whether pennsylvania is in play or your home state or other places. But if cruz is the nominee, thats even better for you, because he is only going to be in play in the same old republican states in 2012 and bound not do as well as mitt romney. We all know what will happen, if trump is the nominee, a lot of people sitting on their hands
at the convention. I mean, sitting on their hands like this. No clapping. Like nixon made sure pat never clapped for goldwater. All the women, women, i say women who read the paper in the subur suburbs, he is the enemy for everything i stand for. Im voting against this guy. But the work and angry white guy, working class guy who has been waiting for this chance to snack the system, goes, the only question how does it balance out . Imagine for the democrats watches this, imagine there a challenge to donald trump and you have the voter in the streets kicking up dust, and then you have the black lives matters who you know will be in cleveland, because theyre there any way, kicking up dust. Theyre not going to defend trump. But you have the clash in the streets, arguments. Youre amazing. You have the black lives matter people who have been waiting to
protest trump. What are we going to do now . Theyll sit back and watch it and say cleveland is the chaos the republicans are offering you. Unbelievable. You are an imaginative guy. I never thought that. Weve got three armies changing sides. Whatever it is. Seattle, you know, trade protests all over again, total. Thank you for joining us. Four months later, a key suspect last november is caught in belgium today. Latest details, what it means for the case and the fight against terror worldwide. Hardball back after this. With the tiger image, the saliva coming