In wisconsin, 22vote margin, and she got 31,000 votes. Those are states that decided the election. Thats why investigators are looking at jill stein. Its no surprise the reaction to the russian meddling is polarizing but it Doesnt Matter whether the investigation goes right or left. These leads need to be run down. So if the committees doing it, maybe thats a good thing. Thats our show. Hardball starts now. Bad santa. Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im Chris Matthews in washington where it was a day of high drama at the capitol. At this hour, were awaiting a senate vote on the republican tax bill that could come at any time. The house voted this afternoon, passing the bill despite every democrat opposing it, along with 12 republicans. Late today there was a wrinkle. House republicans said they will slightly alter the bill and revote tomorrow to ensure it fits with senate rules that allow it to pass with a simple majority. The Senate Parliamentarian had rejected several provisions snuck into the bill that arent budget related. They included, catch this, something on Home Schooling from ted cruz. And a tax benefit for a college, guess where, in Mitch Mcconnells home state of kentucky, earmarked just for that college. It is expected to pass the senate tonight. The tax bill slashes Corporate Tax rates. It kits have you had tax rates though the wealthy will disproportionately benefit. Republicans celebrated in what amounts to the most sweeping tax overhaul in a generation. This is a day ive been looking forward to for a long time. We br to achieve some really big things. Things that the cynics have scoffed at for years, decades
that that seems to be shrouded in the way that trumps people understand this so far . Yes, its bizarre in that almost every Talking Point that republicans have made about this legislation is false is. Its not going to primary benefit the mill class. Its not going to raise taxes on the rich. Its not going to pay for itself. Its not going to super charge growth. And so on. So the question becomes, if in fact this is such a great idea, why not sell it on the merits . Why not say, you know what . We think that rich people deserve to have fatter paychecks, deserve to be able to keep more of their investment earnings, their passive income, and just sell it on those measures alone . And instead theyre just trying to hoodwink america. I think for that i think because americans are following this bill more closely than they might have otherwise, they are learning that a lot of these Talking Points are false, possibly all of them are false, and thats part of the reason they dont like the legislation. The polls show the republican tax bill is extremely unpopular
in the country. The brandnew nbc news Wall Street Journal poll out tonight shows 41 disapprove, only 24 , less than onequarter, like this bill. A Monmouth Poll shows an even bigger gap, 47 approve, 26 disapprove. I think thats wrong. I think the other ones wrong, the middle one. Those were opposed as well. Look at that, disapprove 47 , approve 26 . All three polls, michael, say that your partys tax bill is against their interests. Yeah, and thats a problem. And i dont know how you go out there the to Middle America and make the case remember, particularly with the last poll, 55 that includes republicans. Thats not just democrats and independents in that number. So clearly there are enough people out there to the senators point who have been paying attention to this and trying to decide whether or not this does exactly what the leadership says it does, for me. And their conclusion so far is,
it does not. And i think thats going to be a problem when it comes to selling the bill. Heres a problem i have. I grew up with republican parents, modern republicans, they werent well off. They didnt benefit from this republican bounty for the rich. Why do regular republicans who are not rich, including the rural people who voted for trump, cheering for a tax cut which goes to people that will theyll never meet, maybe see in a movie or hear about on wall street, theyll never meet these people, why do they say, great work, donald trump, keep giving money to the top 1 of 1 , people i will never be invited to their hopes, never meet them on the street because theyre not on the street. Why did they vote this way . Explain. Im not sure i can explain that. I can tell you consistent with your polling, the republicans in colorado, a lot of them hate this bill. And theyre still going to vote for trump. Maybe not again. Because what hes saying is completely conflicts with what he said on the Campaign Trail. Let me give you one example i
bet your mom and dad, it would have driven them crazy. In this bill, the top 572,000 households, people that make more than 1 million, theyre getting 37 billion. In this bill. Year after year after year. And were not paying for it, were borrowing that money. So your parents would look at that and say, wait a minute. Wheres the fiscal responsibility of the Republican Party . Right. Since i was born i heard the Republican Party looked out for debts, it wasnt crazy in spending the democrats were the ba guys, they didnt care about the deficit. I was on the Campaign Trail for almost 18 months in 200910 talking about that very point, finding a lot of people who wanted to come to congress on that very point, to cut the nations debt. To cut the nations deficit spending. Remember the language. We werent were going to come to washington, not spend one dollar more than we take in, were not going to put a further burden on the backs of our kids and grandkids. And yet this is what this bill
does. They had this trigger in here, theyre staying in year 2025 when all these great tax cuts that middle class is getting goes away, that that future congress and president is going to no were going to make it permanent. Well, thats going to add further money to the nations debt. Billy bob thornton is in the white house, bad santa has taken over. I was going to say, remember you were asking about dont Republicans Care about deficit . This goes back over 30 years, the idea of the two santa clauss. Democrats were the santa claus for spending. Giving out goodies to their constituents through the spending side. And republicans were the santa claus of tax cuts. Both parties had their own form of giveaways to their own consit wents. Except for one modest difference. Democrats idea of a goody was health care for kids. Yes. They didnt its called c. H. I. P. , a program the republicans are trying to kill. If you add up 1. 4 trillion, the projected deficit here, thats a huge amount of money if you going to deficit spend that you could treat people for opioids, where were losing 50,000 americans a year. You could fully train the 1,100 pilots that the air force how about trains that go over 35 miles an hour. How about that. That would be a start. Blame the engineer but the trains ought to be able to go faster than 35 miles an hour. And the roads and bridges that your mom and dad and my parents built for us. Our pioneer parents. I dont know if i have any. Not that far back. Immigrants from ireland somewhere. Donald trump ran as a populist, promising to fight for the forgotten man. Lets watch. We are fighting for every american who believes government should serve the people, not the donors and not the special interests. I want to save the middle class. The middle class, the Hedge Fund Guys didnt build this country, these are guys that shift paper
around and they get lucky. The Hedge Fund Guys are getting away with murder, making a tremendous amount of money, they have to pay taxes. I want to lower the rates for the middle class. I will never stop fighting for you against the washington establishment. Im an Outsider Fighting for you. Thats what im doing. The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer. Tax reform will broeprotect low income and middle income households, not the wealthy and well connected. They can call me all they want, its not going to help. Im doing the right thing. And its not good for me, believe me. Katherine, you write a column, you have to write the truth, how does a guy get away by telling the nottruth . Everything he said, im going after wall street, everythings about the top, reducing it from 39 to 37, huge amounts of money at the top. Bringing the corporate rate down from 35 to 21. Basically getting rid of the estate tax altogether. Getting rid of the tax that made Companies Pay at least
something, at least 21 , and now everything he promised he lied about. I shouldnt say lied. He mispromised about. Its going the opposite direction. The people are still cheering him. The people that were promised what hes not doing are cheering that hes not doing it. Why are they cheering . Why are they cheering . I think its more of a performtive thing, expressive thing. They feel like his demeanor, his affect, is simpatico, right . With them. With his voters. It doesnt really matter what he does, it Doesnt Matter what his policy actually looks like. Its not only on taxes, if you want to talk about ways in which he has forsaken the forgotten man, he has forgotten the forgotten man. Its on kneecapping the Consumer Financial protection bureau. Its on rolling back protections for students who have been defrauded on student loans. Its rolling back protections for people who might get black lung, for crying out loud. Hes supposed to be looking out for coal miners. Even in that case hes deregulating. So there are so many Policy Frontiers on which he has let down his public. But you know what these policies are complicated. And beyond that, again, i think that they just feel like he gets them, he speaks for them, they dont really care what he actually does in office, so long as he makes liberals angry. He does not only make liberals angry, talking about me here. He also makes your crowd, michael, your crowd, you take this, right . Yeah. Why does every damn every darn republican in the senate say yes, sir . They have a different value system than trump. Because they look back at their states and see where the president is polling in their neighborhoods and theyve got to go to over the christmas break and next year and campaign. Right now despite Everything Else that we may think and feel about whats good, bad or ugly about this bill, those members know that that is polling 60 . 70 . Back in their states. Or in their districts it could be higher. So thats a political pressure thats been brought to bear for a lot of these members as well. Which makes this much harder for them. If the pressure back at home was a lot less, if the numbers at home reflected what the National Number is for trump at 30 , trust me this would not be the bill you would see. I dont trust it. Let me ask you, it seems youve got to trust me. The bill is to give money to the rich, who will give him back money to run tv, theyll pay for the ads to tell the regular people that hes on their side. In other words the money will come from the people who gave them a big tax cut, the money will be used to bamboozle the regular people. Seems like a perfect system that works for trump. And it has worked. For some reason, whenever hes out there telling his tales, like he was in missouri the other day, he gets away with it. The rest of us need to be explaining whats actually in this bill. And somebody asked me the other day, how could these guys vote against it . I think michael your
explanations a very good one. Im looking forward to going back to counties in colorado where the president won 70 , 80 , and explaining why i voted against. Id like to say i voted twice against this bill because it is so inconsistent with the fundamental promises that they made during his campaign. I hope your lyon like schumer and pelosi get the word out that this is a bank robbery of the average person. Nuances are important here. This is the time for populist democrats to make their noise. Senator michael bennet, i dont have to teach you guys. Sometimes i think i do. Michael steele and katherine, beautiful, thank you. Whats going to happen when white House Attorneys who want the Russia Investigation wrapped and up quashed meet muellers prosecutors who look like theyve got a year or more so go . Muellers work is nowhere near done, we can tell that, thats going to enrage trump and his allies who have been bamboozled into thinking this is over. The former director of National Intelligence says putin is using trump as an intelligence asset,
an asset of the russians. Thats ahead. Trump pushing back against a report he nearly pulled the nomination of snowstorm Justice Neil Gorsuch because gorsuch criticized the president for attacking federal judges. Not the first time weve seen trump test the loyalty of his nominees but it might be one of the most damning. The trump tower tax cut hands democrats a silver plate issue to run on next november. Can they do it . Can they win, can they capitalize on a bad santa tax cut . How can republicans defend a tax plan that helps the rich while hurting nearly everyone else . The hardball roundtable with three big scoops youll be talking about for a while. When you book a flight then add a hotel you can save. Three waves later, i think it was the other way around. Davidiancy by one vote. It proves your votes matter. A threejudge panel must certify the results, thats questioned for tomorrow. This is moving with this victory democrats have flipped 16 seats in the Virginia House of delegates. Two districts are awaiting recounts. I feel like fire the 2018 cadillac xt5. Worship me beauty, greater than the sum of its parts. Come in for our seasons best offers and drive out with the perfect 2018 cadillac xt5. Get a lowmileage lease on this cadillac xt5 from around 379 per month. They expect to be working through much of 2018 at a minimum. Thats how i see it. This meeting comes after dozens of conservative lawmakers and Tv Personalities have escalated their attacks on the mueller probe. New reporting shows their strategy of discrediting the Special Counsel appears to have the blessing of trump himself. A white house adviser said the president has enjoyed the attacks on mueller, in recent weeks he has spoken to a number of fox news hosts, republican lawmakers and others who have cast gated muellers team. Im joined by coauthor of that report in the post, carol lennig, joyce transa forge federal prosecutor, Malcolm Nance is msnbc terrorism and National Security analyst. Thank you all. Carol, thank you for joining us. When this is going to happen . First of all, tell us how you put together this story. A little bit about trade craft. How do we know is trump being told, dont worry, be happy, youll be through this by
christmas, theyre folding their tents . Are they telling this to keep him calm . Do they really believe it . Is this strategic . So that the country will feel, especially the trump folks, that, oh, theyre just overdoing it, theyre on a fishing expedition, how do you see the whole situation here . So without revealing too much tradecraft, ill just say that weve talked to people who have spoken with the president very recently. And he has, in their mind, described himself as very sure that he will be exonerated. As you know from your own coverage and ours, he has said for the last several months there was no collusion, i had no participation with russia, i did no business with russia, i dont know what this probe is about, its a terrible shadow over my presidency. And indeed, very, very recently within the last few days, people who are with him were surprised that even now, after one of his most senior advisers has pled guilty and is cooperating with
muellers probe, even now the president has said he has no worries, his lawyers have told him hes in the clear, and he should learn of some confirmation of that soon. We obviously have different reporting that suggests, as is natural with a very large criminal probe, that this is going to go on for a long while. Let me go to joyce on that. Seems to me, im not a prosecutor or attorney, but seems to me theyve got their star witness, michael flynn, beginning to put him under the microscope of testimony, public testimony. If theyre going to do that. In terms of indictments of top people, theyve really not gotten near the president yet. I dont know why anyone would honestly believe this things coming to a head right now. I dont know why anyone would think that either, chris. This Investigation Looks like its still fairly early. Prosecutors have only just finished their first round of interviews of key white house players. Witnesses like hope hicks whose interviews will probably lead to
a lot more questions, a lot more lines of investigation. Weve learned this week prosecutors have this Treasure Trove of documents from gsa, Transition Team emails, we know they have financial records. Thats the lengthy core part of any investigation. It takes awhile to follow that paper trail. And then as you say theres the witnesses, either to testify or defendants who will go to trial. A lot more work comes in that stage. And finally, key witnesses at the top of the food chain. People like Attorney GeneralJeff Sessions and Vice President pence yet to be interviewed. The president himself, its unlikely that this investigation closes without an interview of him. So these same lawyers who have been saying, it will be over by thanksgiving, it will be over by christmas, i think its equally likely theyre wrong when they say it will be over end of the year. This will go for at least an additional year. Malcolm, seem