Days for this country. The latest poll from cbs news shows Bernie Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders tied for the lead at 25 each. And people were in attendance for a rally at ceder rapids and andrew yang, and reportedly told the crowd, we are past the fire code as the new wall street journal poll shows 46 of americans approve of the job that President Trump is doing while 75 disprove. After the republican majority in the senate succeeded in blocking witnesses in the president s impeachment trial this week. A vote on the final verdict set for wednesday. That means tomorrow President Trump fwhwill enter the House Chamber as the president technically still on trial. It also means theyre getting john boltons spot, instead of his firsthand knowledge against ukraine. I would like to welcome in my allstar panel. And my good friend, katy ter. Chief correspondent for the Washington Post. And tim albrtdau. And the chief Public Affairs officer for move on. Org. Welcome to all of you on what as the be one of the most uncertain we really have no idea whos going to come out on top tomorrow night . No, we dont. The polls, over the last month, most of them have shown senator sanders and Vice President biden up top. But match up overall. In talking to campaigns through friday, before everybody arrived for campaigning. Everybody parachuted back in here. I got the sense theucter campaigns believed Bernie Sanders would turn out the most voters on caucus night. But not that he necessarily would lead on delegate businessfobusiness before they do their realigning. The order of finish will have some impact Going Forward and perhaps a real impact. And ive been watching your reporting. What have you learned since youve been out here . The other campaigns do feel like Bernie Sanders is the big threat. But Bernie Sanderss campaign, theyre unwilling to say that they are confident, victory, victory party. I think thats tomorrow. Biggest thing ive noticed is voters continually say theyre not quite sure who they like. There are Bernie Sanders all about him and same with warren and some of the other candidates, biden as well. Burt once you get past the first handful of people, its like im not quite sure im going to make my decision on caucus night. This is all about peer pressure. So when you walk in the room and your friends and neighbors are caucusing for biden and youre considering warren, are you going to move over to your friends and neighbors . Its about ground game and who you know in that room and i doenl dont think we should trust any single poll right now. You have been in the trenches. Whats your sense of where things stand here . And what happens if Bernie Sanders comes out the victor . Really echoing what you have been saying. Its so fluid. When you dig down deeper, see larger number of people who havent made a decision. And people say they could be convinced to go with someone else. We havent seen this. We didnt see this in 2008 or 2016. The question is what type of electorate is going to come out . Is it that progressive we want change electorate . Comfort . 2004 or i think what ive been hearing a lot of is high turnout. A lot of folks have been telling me high turnout. Suggesting the highest ever. Which means a lot in this caucus environment. Tim alberta, how, in your view, does the impeachment process weve been so hyperfocussed on in washington, how is it effecting whats going on out here, if at all . Formidable than anybody might really think. I think democrats who are fired up about it and some have tuned it out at this point. Theyre perhaps a later prupencety caucus goer. And in this environment, we really dont know how the last 20 to 25 of the caucusgoing electorate is going to vote. At this time four years ago marco rubio wound up hitting 23 on caucus night. So, there is a sense, even among the Sanders Campaign, which i think is pretty confident at this point is somebody could break late and nobodys talking about joe biden that much because his crowds are small. But joe biden isnt that rock star. Theyre not drivicing across th state like these other candidates. He can be sneaky strong in a way we dont suspect at this point. I talked to both the former Vice President and governor. And basically put that same question to them. Your crowds are smaller. Theyre less enthusiastic than were seeing for the candidates. How much does that concern you . He said, look, biden is a known commodity in the state. You dont have to come out to events. So, you should not equate enthusiasm crowd size with what happened on caucus night. You had to be starting quite a lot. The folks that were just coming to trump, its a friday night. Are you going to the movies or going to see the show that is donald trump . Theyre there to experience it. Theyre not serious about voting for him. Thats what i heard over and over and over again. These are people that would sit out overnight in the snow to wait to get inside. And they were not only enthusiastic, they were completely committed to going to vote for him. I will say on thursday he was here in des moines to see him once again. And these are people that have seen him before. So, theyre committed. He had a 7,000 person at capacity crowd, fire marshal shut them out. And its me telling people when youre looking as enthusiasm, it can matter and right now donald trump maintain as lot enthusiasm in these states that could decide the election. And one thing, and full disclosure, i have been at home covering impeachment until very recently. Im relying on all of you. And in iowa. But i have heard people make comparisons when you talk about the size of joe bidens krourd, they compare that to Hillary Clinton and what happened in 2016 and raise a flag about hey, can we actually beat donald trump with somebody who doesnt necessarily have the same kind enthusiasm we know from our lessons in 2016 can make a difference . Look, i agree with katy t matters. Especially when you think about an iowa caucus in particular, because thats happening tomorrow. Were asking people to do a lot. Youre asking people to take time off. Youre asking people to go against their neighbors. The only way you get folks to do that is if youre excited about your campaign. And when you look at the general election, ill repeat myself again. To beat donald trump. Yes, hes incredibly unpopular. Impeachment is insane right now. But youre going to have to expand. Theyre going to have to expand their beige. They have to get people who dont come out and vote and they need a diverse coalition. And that means enthusiasm. That takes us to the Washington Post. While the party has struggled toance arbasic question, how do you beat trump . The results will offer the first moment of clarity to test whether they want democratic revolution to counter trumps republican one or whether the party wants a more traditional, return to normalcy nominee running on more kitchen table, uncontroversial issues. This seems to be the biden verses bernie in a nutshell. I think prior to the last ten days or so, it looked like this races might be headed towards biden verses bernie. Thats clear within the party. And i think what the biden folks are counting on is, in the end, people who are undecided will go for a safer choice, rather than take a risk. Tim, let me ask you. One thing ive been turning over in my head. I covered Bernie Sanders campaign on the road for months in 2016. And he ran it to the end. As democrats are grappling with this challenge, im wondering if there isnt something going on with the electorate. And Bernie Sanders team gets upset when you compare him to donald trump. But at the same time he seems to have tapped into an anger in the democratic electorate and expanded it in a popular way that reminds me of some of the anger we heard from trump voters. Do you sense that at all . Definitely. Certainly trade. Democratic party over mobilization verses persuasion. How do we beat trump . I think bernie is the one candidate who says i can actually do both. Whether he can or not remains to be seen. If you look at the selfstyled or more progressive candidates running in 2018, they were largely on the strength of a boldly progressive vision for america. They took back the house on the strength of dozens of these Center Candidates who talk about working with the Republican Party and some talk about fighting against gun control efforts. This was not a liberal message. Its a great point. Well, i think thats where it gets interesting. Theres a belief that donald trump was this political phenomenon and he won wisconsin in a way no other republican could. But donald trump won fewer votes in wisconsin than romney did in 2012. So, whats the common denominator there . Its not that donald trump was able to turn out these massive numbers. Its that they connect would somebody in the Democratic Base and Donald Trumps going to have a heck of a hard time hanging on in those midwestern states. Were following very closely. Just ahead an exclusive with joe biden. Were right back on a special iowa caucus edition of kasie d. C. In des moines. Kasie d. C. In des moines. Limu emu doug and now for their service to the community, we present limu emu doug with this key to the city. [ applause ] its an honor to tell you that Liberty Mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. And now we need to get back to work. [ applause and band playing ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. [sneezing] you dont want to cancel your plans. [sneezing] cancel your cold. The 1pill power of advil multisymptom cold flu knocks out your worst symptoms. Cancel your cold, not your plans. Advil multisymptom cold flu. Oh no, here comes gthe neighbor probably to brag about how amazing his Xfinity Customer Service is. Im mike, im so busy. Good thing xfinity has twohour appointment windows. They have night and weekend appointments too. Hes here. Bill . Karolyn . Nope no, just a couple of rocks. Download the my account app to manage your appointments making todays Xfinity Customer Service simple, easy, awesome. Ill pass. Welcome back to a special iowa caucus edition of kasie d. C. Tied up in washington. Former Vice President joe biden has been trying to take advantage of their absence. Nbc news correspondent has been with him just about every step of the way for quite a few years and he joins us with his exclusive interview. Wheres everything stand . Reporter kasie, wasnt that long ago the Biden Campaign was writing off iowa. But since they launched the no malarkey bus tour, theyve been all in here, sensing an opportunity to put an end with a strong showing for you. Another day in iowa, another day on the bus. Unlike after he launched his third white house bid as he face as critical test. My gut tells me things are going well and its going to be close. Reporter in a last week, with many rivals tied up in washington, 23 events in nine days. In between, using his time on the bus to check win family, rally union allies. So, theres not a wasted moment . You take time off between . Not a lot. On stage more like a general election. America will have a chance to answer does the character of a president matter . Reporter 17 republicans thought they knew how to beat donald trump and lost. Hillary clinton thought she knew how to beat donald trump and lost to him. What mang youz think you know how to beat donald trump . I think two things. One, everybodys on to him now. I think the way to go after donald trump is to point out what he hadnt done. What he wont do. And point out why its important that bad things hes done, how badly its hurt the country and the character of the country. Reporter while he emphasizes one on one connections, battling the perception of an enthusiasm gap. You seem to be making a pitch for the head, not the heart . I think it is both. The vast majority of American People know me. And i think they, by and large, based on polling data, the good news they know me, the bad news they know me. The attacks on me and my weaknesses are real. The attacks on my strengths arent going anywhere. Reporter they echo his core argument about electability. We have to get a good democrat in there. So, hes our man, someone whos going to beat trump. Reporter so thats the biggest selling point to you, somebody whos going to beat trump . Absolutely. Bernies dilemma, from my perspective, is he is not being straight forward on how hes going to get done what hes suggesting and the cost in what hes suggesting. Reporter biden insists iowa wont be make or break, taking a long view of the race. Nothing happens on monday is going to end this campaign. Its a very different circumstance than it has been in the past. I think its going to be a really tough contest here. One of the things i think youre going to see a bunch of us coming on bunched up. I mean, id rather have an outright win. Dont get me wrong. I think i have a real firewall in South Carolina. Then we have the super tuesday states with a significant number of minorities running, i think im going to do fine. Reporter so, no regrets . No. The only thing i made a commitment to bo, not that i would run, but that i would not back away from things and so, as long as i remember home base, remember who you are, just be who you are and make your case. If my case can be made in a way people accept it, all the better. If they dont, they dont. Reporter kasie, we continue that part of the conversation informally. Saying if biden had run, he would be a 54yearold president but the real reason hes running is because donald trump. Reporter always illuminating. Biden used the phrase, taking the long view of this campaign. And made me wonder, how are they thinking about Mike Bloomberg and the pressure he is potentially biting on the Biden Campaign . Theyre making the argument, behind the scenes, that were going to be here if biden falls apart. And theres question about whether biden can financially go the distance. How is the campaign worrying about that or not . Reporter you hit the nail on the head. Because on paper, they believe they can win a long delegate battle, if thats what this race turns out to be. But in reality, they know if it falls short in iowa, its a weak frontrunner and that leads to donors holding back their cash and that could prove to be fatal. Hes had some help from super pack. But you look at super tuesday, they just wont have the resources to compete with a Mike Bloomberg who will be waiting out there to make an argument he couldnt get done. Now get behind me. Thank you so much for your reporting today. And all of the days you have been pounding the pavement on the trail. The panel is back, including msnbc contributor, Maria Theresa kumar. You went to a biden event while you were here. A few of them. What did you hear from caucus goers . They have been, as weve been talking about, stronger and less energetic from the crowds. They want to see him come out and foikt. They want to see him defend himself and his family forcefully. I was talking to a couple that came in and they liked Amy Klobuchar. But they were at the biden event because they wanted to see the Vice President take on this president because they felt he was slandering him. They were ready to be swayed in that room and they walked away not suede. And that seems like a loss for the campaign. I kept going back and forth about this. I said why doesnt he do that . And hes not going to play the president s game. Ive been hearing people on the trail who say they wanted biden to testify. They wanted to see him confront his former colleagues, the people hes known for decades in the senate and look them in the eye and say you were on my side about this forever and youre only doing this for the president. They want to see him show he can take the president on directly. Obthviously the impeachment trial has meant the biden name has been for the senate. Interested in having it be so. And he asked joe biden about his son, hunter. Lets watch. Well, first of all, there are no charges. Its kind of fascinating. The charge was he was on a board. What it is, is it looks bad. Thats number one. Number two, the reason not to testify, the everything hes always done t has nothing to do with the charge against him. You dont lead with packaging exactly what the other side is accusing you of. What he should be saying is this is not about me or hunter or any of the implications. This is about the constitution. When in fact, what we do know for a fact, that it is all on the hands of the president and we have the receipts to prove it. The moment you start explaining, youre losing. He sounds like hes weakened by it. Exactly the same thing. I would say look, donald trump is scared of me. Hes scared if im the nominee hes im going to beat him. Hes using his office to do that. Its about donald trump. And he is the problem. Thats it. Thats what you say. Whats your take away on bidens performance and the risks Going Forward for him . His performance on this stump, as kasie suggested, has lacked the kind energy you would expect to see in somebody whos been through this several times, who knows whats at stake. I was struck the other day that in two events, he gave his speech, answered questions, etc. , and then he sat down and the governor got up and basically made the argument about why you need to vote for this man, as opposed to the Vice President doing that. And he almost seemed to be shrinking back from the camera in a way you wouldnt anticipate from somebody being so forward. Right. You would expect at this point, every candidate to be leaning in and making that pitch and he hasn