Smith documents case, where judge Aileen Cannon has a big decision to make, is she going to throw out the testimony of tabarras, the team member whos cooperating with the team. Ken, good to have you. Talk to me about the meadows appeal and the request hes making of the court while the appeal goes forward. Hes requesting that the judge grant a temporary stay of his own order. Which ruled obviously that mark meadows could not have his case removed to Federal Court but that it should go back down to state court. Meadows is saying he could be irreparably harmed by this decision. He wants to appeal and have the judge put a pause on things while he appeals. If this judge doesnt do that, hes going to ask the Appeals Court to do that. Generally you get a stay if you have a chance of winning on appeal, and this judges opinion was pretty resounding that mark meadows didnt meet any of the tests to remove his case to Federal Court, and what the judge said is it was clear that mark meadows, when lobbying Georgia State officials on behalf of donald trump, asking them to investigate bogus allegations of fraud and the election that he was doing that on behalf of the trump campaign, not as part of his role as the Chief Of Staff to the president and the judge went through point by point all of his actions in a detailed ruling. Hard for me to imagine that he would get this stay. Anything is possible. The judge may decide out of a matter of fairness he would give it to meadows to allow him to appeal. What about the other codefendants who have filed to get their case removed. What does this mean for the likelihood that it happens for them . Im not talking about donald trump because donald trump is a different case. What about the other 18 or 17 codefendants . I think it makes it clear that this is a really hard case for them to make. If mark, the Chief Of Staff to the president can argue that almost anything he does on behalf of the president , you know, arguably fits into his governmental duties, and thats what meadows tried to argue, part of the job is to arrange meetings, be on phone calls, including the phone call between donald trump and the georgia secretary of state, asking him to find votes. The judge said, look, you may have arranged the phone call and spoke on the phone call, and you were urging Georgia Officials to investigate bogus allegations of fraud, and that went beyond the scope of your official duties, and it seems that would apply to anyone else in the situation including, by the way, donald trump. What about what prosecutors have to do by noon tomorrow to respond to mark meadows request for an appeal and to stay the decision until then. Yeah, i mean, theyre going to no doubt point to what the judge said in that ruling, which is that they have a resounding case that, you know, the law is on their side here. Theyre going to argue against the stay because theyre going to say that mark meadows does not have a good chance of winning on appeal, and well have to see where that goes. Ken dilanian, thank you very much for starting us off. Joining us is lisa rubin, and former u. S. Attorney barbara mcquade, an msnbc legal analyst. Lets talk about donald trump. The other codefendants dont have the same resume or dont have the same cv as mark meadows, dont have the same cv agz the former president. It might be harder to make the argument that this should be tried in Federal Court but the president was the president at the time. Does he still have a case . In reading between the lines for the decision against mark meadows, does the president have a better argument in there that mark meadows did not . I dont think so. And it isnt because of the position that he held but the nature of the conduct that he was engaging in. So for mark meadows, for example, he was the Chief Of Staff, he was a federal official at the time. What the judge looked at was the nature of the conduct . He was engaging in political activity, campaign activity, not government, and similarly, donald trump was engaging in the same kind of conduct. He was pressuring officials in the State Of Georgia to change the outcome of the election. He was pressuring individuals who were poll workers. That is campaign activity. That is not governing. And so i dont expect the decision to be any different whether its mark meadows, donald trump or any of the other defendant sgls do you expect him to file a motion to do so . He hasnt officially filed a motion to remove his case yet. Does this make his lawyers think maybe its not a good idea. Maybe its not even worth it. I think on the merit, its probably not worth it. Most lawyers would make the assessment based on what happened to mark meadows. The Name Of The Game is delay, to gum up the work, any days, weeks or months that he can delay this day of reckoning is valuable to donald trump. Lets dwell on mark meadows and the trial date we have coming fast approaching, this October 23rd Trial date. Heres what meadows lawyers are saying about asking for the stay. They say at minimum the court should stay the remand order to protect meadows from a conviction pending appeal. Absent a stay, the state will continue seeking to try meadows 42 days from now on october 23rd. If the states gets its way, meadows could be forced to go to trial and could be convicted and incarcerated before the standard time line for a federal appeal would play out. They have a point with that . No, i dont think so. Particularly not in this case. This is one of the instances where i wish i could call back to tim russert and his white board so i could game out how long each of these processes might take. We know from judge scott mcafees hearing next week, hes not inclined to try the other 17 on the same time frame. One of the reasons wasnt a concern about their Due Process Rights and fairness to them but because of the removal logistically. Lets say for the sake of argument he was willing to try them starting on october 23rd, i think and im curious to know whether barb agrees that that trial could take so long that you could exhaust all of meadows appellate rights between then and the conclusion of that trial. In particular, judge mcafee voted that voir dire, the Prose Process of selecting a jury would take several months, and the d. A. s estimate was it will take four months to try the case with 150 witnesses. One of those two things cant be true. If they intend to call 150 witnesses across four months, my guess is that 150 witnesses would take well longer than four months, particularly if youve got 17 defendants, each with the right to cross examine those witnesses, either they intend to bring fewer than 150 witnesses or were looking at something that is going to be far in excess of four months. Should we expect a severance for meadows coming sooner or later, hes not going to be in the October 23rd Trial date, it will just be Sidney Powell and kenneth chesebro. Thats my expectation, were going to see scott mcafee hold a hearing over not only ken chesebros right to see grand jury information but about this specific issue of whether to sever the other 17 and whether to set a trial date at all or leave it for a point in time at which mark meadows Removal Motions and those of the other four people who have filed their own Removal Motions are fully disposed of. Thats what i expect to happen on thursday. Barb, is your expectation in line with lisas . It is. I think despite fani williss wish to try all of these people together, i think the judge is going to give the remaining 17 additional time that they want. I think its only reasonable to give them more than just a couple of months to put their ducks in a row and get ready for trial. Its a big phase. For those who demanded a speedy trial, they have a right for that. I expect it will get severed and the other proceed. Lets talk about florida for a second. We havent gone back to florida for a little while, the classified documents case, last news we had was a worker at maralago had changed lawyers and then recanted his testimony, and became a cooperating witness for jack smith, basically calling into question what happened with those boxes. His former lawyer whos i believe also a trump affiliated lawyer is saying that his testimony should be thrown out citing potential grand jury abuse. What does that mean . I think what hes trying to say, and, again, this is my understanding, is that stan woodward, the lawyer for walt nauta and used to represent both nauta and, once they imposed another lawyer, got him to appeal off and enter into a grand jury arrangement. His solution would be to get tavaras from testifying. I think thats unlikely, and whats more likely to happen is walt nautas lawyer is blocked from doing the crossexamination as a cooperating witness at trial because he used to represent him, and therefore has knowledge in his possession that could be used against his former client. Complicating, barbara, what do you think . Theres nothing, we know from the superseding indictment, they added, the idea that he got a new lawyer doesnt seem inappropriate. There is a sealed filing that we dont know the content of. Based on what is known in the Public Domain right now, i dont see any reason that the judge should suppress the testimony of taveras which i think will be an important witness. Ive heard Prosecutorial Misconduct in some way or another. We have had a lawyer come on our show say that about tim parlatore, and his experience with the team. And this lawyer saying potential grand jury abuse. Is it going to hold water, the idea that the special counsels team is not acting by the book. I know its hard to see because we dont have all the evidence ahead of us. Do you have any sense there could be an argument made there . Facts matter and if theres something in the briefs we dont know, perhaps, but based on wla we know in the Public Domain, i dont see any Prosecutorial Misconduct. Defense attorneys like to throw around allegations, put pressure on prosecutors to shrink from their duty. I dont think theyre going to find a willing audience here. I think when youre representing a high profile client like the former president , there is a goal about poisoning the Public Opinion by suggesting that there is Prosecutorial Misconduct going on here. Those are accusations you can take seriously. We have to wait to see what other evidence does or doesnt come out on that. We havent seen everything. Its hard to tell from this vantage point. Coming up next, hes been showing up at former coworkers houses. Police have not captured danelo cavalcante, where he could be now. We are approaching the 72 hour golden window to find most survivors. We are on the ground in morocco. And can he make a deal to avoid a government shutdown, and if he does, can he hang on to the gavel. Speaker Kevin Mccarthy is back to face his, quote, hellish fall, we are back in 60 seconds. H fall, we are back in 60 seconds. Ble spend category. Hi. You dont have to keep tabs on rotating categories. This is the only rotating i care about. Or activate anything to earn. Your cash back automatically adjusts for you. Can i get a Cucumber Water . Earn 5 cash back that automatically adjusts to your top eligible spend category, up to 500 spent each Billing Cycle with the citi custom cash® card. I love it. [sneeze] astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other Allergy Sprays take hours. With astepros unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go Liberty Mutual customized my Car Insurance and i saved hundreds. With the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. Oh. [dog barks] no its just a bunny only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. I knew that there were weaknesses in that perimeter. It was a very strong perimeter as far as perimeters go, but there are weaknesses and that place posed unique challenges. Perhaps when this is all over, i can talk about sop of those. It was a difficult place to try and secure. Pennsylvania police just told reporters they no longer have a perimeter in the search for escaped murderer cavalcante. He has been on the run for 12 days. He has been spotted multiple times, including on this Door Cam Video over the weekend where it appears he shaved and found new clothes. Joining us from Chester County is nbc news correspondent, marissa parra. What i find interesting is he has been to two coworkers houses. Im surprised police werent at those homes expecting him. Theres also news about his sister. What can you tell us about what we learned and what they are doing now that this is in its 12th day . Reporter you mentioned one of the things that theyre doing differently now. They dont have a perimeter. They said they have increased police presence. In certain areas. They mentioned East Mansfield township, northern Chester County. For anyone familiar following this, that is where the van, the stolen Dairy Farm Van was found abandoned early sunday morning. They defended so far all of the choices, the decisions they made. You played a sound byte from the lieutenant who has been giving these Press Conferences, these updates, talking about the challenges they had at longwood gardens, and defending what they have done so far, talking about the challenges with topography, the heat, the rainmaking it harder to track by scent as well as the construction sites, Drainage Ditches and tunnels running through and under, if you will, the long wood gardens area, the Botanical Gardens which are densely wooded. This is an agile man. When he was wanted for homicide in 2017, he evaded in authorities by living the jungles of brazil to make his great escape. This isnt his first time doing this. When we talk about what we learned from this Press Conference today, you mentioned an important point, and that was something that people and the room had asked about, was do you have a list . How much help do you think hes getting, do you have any confirmation hes getting help, and they were kind of vague with their answers. Probably by strategy. They were not keen on telling us whether they have confirmation that he was getting any help. That was where they were a little bit more vague. They have made a list. They have compiled a list who people who have known him in some capacity, thats what they told us in the Press Conference. They did give a stern warning. It was not vague at you will a. They were very clear that anyone who was caught helping him will be prosecuted. There were a couple of questions on is the Current Situation with his sister also a warning . Is that a tactic to try to get cavalcante to cooperate. He said he would not answer that. But some other key points that were interesting from this Press Conference, we learned that those images from the ring doorbell camera, right, we have those photos now of him wearing new clothes. Hes Got A Freshly Shaven face. Of course theres questions on whether did he get the razor, did he take the razor, was he given the razor. We dont have an answer to that now. We learned today there was a conversation that was had between the owner of the doorbell camera a, the old associate of cavalcante, and cavalcante himself. It wasnt in english. It was in portuguese. He described it as a conversation that seemed urgent as well as someone who was talking to someone who he hadnt talked to in a while, katy. So what we have learned from the Press Conference is they believe he is desperate. They believe hes still in pennsylvania. We did ask why, and he said we dont have any reason to believe hes not. Everyone that lives in this area and the state, whether its, you know, across state lines or not, theyre asking people to lock their homes, not just the homes, but also their cars, because that van that was stolen had the keys inside of the van, katy, so theyre saying, dont make this any easier for him. This is a man who is desperate to get what he needs, and he will do whatever it takes to get it. Thank you very much. Call it deja vu, what is threatening speaker Kevin Mccarthys gavel this time. First up, what remains of a morocco town where only four people survived fridays earthquake. We are live after the break. Earthquake we are live after the break in s, another aquaaerobics scene. Yup. Most Health Insurance companies see us all the same smiley seniors golfing, hiking. Dont forget antiquing. Thats why i chose humana. They see me, not a stereotypical senior. Im prediabetic, so i talked oneonone with a Humana Health educator who really helped me. Now im taking free cooking and meditation classes. Not aquaaerobics . Better care begins with listening. Humana. A more human way to healthcare. Agerelated Macular Degeneration may lead to severe vision loss and if youre taking a multivitamin alone, you may be missing a critical piece. Preservision. Preservision areds 2 contains the only clinically proven Nutrient Formula recommended by the National Eye Institute to help reduce the risk of mod