Things are definitely looking up. [ male announcer ] with no blackout dates, you can use your Citi Thankyou points to travel whenever you want. Visit citi. Com thankyoucards to apply. By the armful . By the barrelful . The carful . How about. By the bowlful . Campbells soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight. Campbells. Its amazing what soup can do. His final general audience before his resignation takes effect tomorrow. Tens of thousands of people gathered in st. Peters square, with what will be one of the last public appearances. Once again, welcome, everyone, joining us on set. New york m John Heilemann. And in nashville, pulitzer prizewinning historian and our resident theologian, jon meacham. Jon, why dont we stick with these live pictures. And ill start out with a question to you because obviously theres a lot of symbolism here, a lot of ritual. But its not something that the vatican has done in over 600 years. This was a surprise when he announced that he would be resigning. What do we know at this point as to why . I think we take him at his word in the sense that hes 85 years old. He does not feel that he has the energy or the really the ability anymore to Carry Forward the work of the church. I think theres always vatican intrigue. Thats a redundant phrase. And i think well continue to hear things about leaked papers and potential complicit in different things. But my own sense from talking to friends who friends who know friends is that this was, in fact, a surprise. It is what it appears to be. And hes you know, this is a man who i dont think this man has been forced to do anything in his whole life. You know, hes a very a formidable figure. One view of its stubborn. The other view is unflinching. And so i dont think hes pushed around very much. Right. Which really doesnt match resigning from this position. In some ways theres a lot of questions in my mind as a catholic. Especially since the last pope, one that we knew growing up, Pope John Paul ii, literally allowed the world to watch him die. That was part of the process of sharing life, willie. Yeah. This pope says hes old and fragile, unable to travel, but you make a good point about the previous pope. John, weve heard many times now that the next pope, whoever that may be, will have to confront the sexual abuse scandal, puts it mildly. That has consumed the Roman Catholic church for so long. What will that mean exactly . What will a pope do . A new pope in terms of confronting that . Will he come out immediately in an opening address . Will he purge some of the priests . What do you think that pope will do at least from a Public Relations point of view to change the perception . Well, its the perception and the reality. Its the most disturbing thing about any selfprotecting institution. You see this as the catholic chump has, for decade upon decade now, put its own institutional survival and its own institutional dignity, really, ahead of the interests of the weakest people in its care, its children. I think many people who are admirers of benedict and were admirers of john paul ii accept the view that the church should have moved more aggressively. You cannot simply, as the church has done in recent decades, move priests from diocese to diocese in the hopes that somehow or another the problem will go away. I think that the new pope would be very wise, particularly in the west, to speak out and argue that this is entirely a new day and that the church will become more christlike. You know, mika, i dont really know nobody knows why the pope is stepping down. We can take him at his word. Unfortunately, taking the Catholic Church at its word over the past decade or so on a variety of scandals has not been what journalists should have done. I think some questions have to be asked here. He stepped down, the first pope to step down in centuries. And again, i love the church. I have a lot of connections to the church. And i just this is less about the church than it is about reporters and journalists who are covering this story. I think far too many people are just saying oh, hes old. I think they need to dig into it a little bit more. You know, its impossible, given the way the vatican runs. I will say theres a lot of reporters sent out there who are also practicing catholics. Im a practicing catholic, and i just have a lot of questions. Having said that, these are incredible images, incredible moment in history, in the history of the Catholic Church. We can take that moment for what it is. But we also should continue to ask questions because my hope for my church is that it becomes more transparent and more modern so that it embraces young people that join and keeps them safe. Transparency would be a very good thing. It would be wonderful. Obviously moving forward. I love being catholic, but i just feel i have to say that. That there hasnt been a lot of light in the hierarchy of this church for some time. Lets move to politics. Some polls that have come out. And, of course, for those that followed polls and actually cared about results, it was probably the most accurate or one of the most accurate polls. Theres some conservatives overnight in the twittersphere and online that have been pushing back against the results of this because, of course, they didnt report them as well as gallup or rasmussen did. When asked about their feelings. The numbers, though, are pretty daunting for my Republican Party. Theyve got a long way to go. An incredible oped, too, coming up that well talk about by sheila bair. When asked about their feelings about the gop, just 29 of people had a positive view. 46 were negative. A difference of 17 percentage points. By comparison, democrats enjoyed a net positive outlook. When it comes to handling key issues including entitlements, gun control, even taxes and the economy, democrats were seen as doing a better job. The only issues where the gop holds the advantage in the survey are on reducing the deficit, controlling Government Spending, and defense. Still, president obama has been seen has seen public support suffer. His disapproval has risen four points since november. And the number of people who think the country is headed in the wrong direction has increased to 59 . All the rancor over budget negotiations hasnt helped. 51 say they are less confident about the economy. Just 16 say budget wrangling has made them more confident. Just talking in my home to some young people just out of college last night, they dont they just dont want to hear the word sequester again. And still to this point, they dont really know what it means because they dont think its going to mean anything. So they dont think its worth, even in their mind, trying to figure it out. I dont like that attitude. Having said that, i dont necessarily well, i kind of sympathize with it. Yeah. As far as the poll goes, the president is not suffering. Hes sitting at 50 , looking very strong. The republican brand in the 20s. And you look at the specifics, item by item, over the budget or health care or improving the lives of middleclass voters. It is the president , the democrats who are winning on just about every front. The republicans brand right now still in the tank, in the 20s. And only time will tell if they can turn things around. Right now its not looking good. Mark, what are your overall impressions of the new nbc news wall street journal poll . Republicans are united around the country in not whaunting to new taxes. Other than that, theyre divided by chuck hagel and a legislative and pr strategy for dealing with the sequester, divided about immigration, divided to some extent about just the general posture towards the president. And i think you see in that poll, you know, you say whos the Republican Party unpopular with . To some extent obviously with democrats. But the reason the numbers down so low is a lot of republicans are unhappy with the party. Some from the right and some from the left. I think right now the president and his team are firing on all cylinders on the pr war leading up to the sequester. And republicans have put themselves in a weakened position. A lot of longterm issues as well. When your brand is in the 20s, youre in harry truman and george w. Bush territory. Its just not good. And you know, the president is winning the day on a lot of issues, especially when it comes to dealing with gun violence. If you look at the poll, overwhelmingly, americans think that this country needs stricter gun laws. That obviously is an offshoot of not only newtown but Mass Shootings over the past several years. 61 say they want gun laws to be tightened. 61 . Only 4 want less strict gun laws. And 34 want them kept as they are right now. Democrats are also seen overwhelmingly as the party that can handle the issue of gun violence. And the poll reveals that despite controversial comments in a major ad and heavy media scrutiny in the wake of newtown, mika, the nras Public Opinion is unchanged. It went down, and then its come back up. 42 of the people have a positive view. 34 have a negative view. So really, willie geist, theres something there for everybody. There is. And it goes to something weve been saying for a long time, that Wayne Lapierre not only is out of the mainstream, but hes out of touch with his own membership, with the nra, which is to say when he says that nobody wants universal background checks and then you look at the numbers, and its Something Like 90 of americans want them, there is a desire for some measures. Not extreme to go take their guns away, but there is a desire in this country, not just from democrats and liberals, but from americans as we saw there to do something about guns. The numbers have shifted dramatically, John Heilemann. Like they havent shifted in recent history. And last night there was a special election. It was in a democratic seat to replace jesse jackson. A lot of people are scoffing about it. Conservatives immediately because Michael Bloomberg went in. There was a candidate that was in a competitive race who was supported by the nra. Bloomberg came in. And it changed everything overnight. He did. And he spent, i believe, 2 million on that race in a media market like chicago in a race at this level, 2 million is a lot of money. Its a lot of money anywhere. But coming in at the last minute and flood, saturate the airwaves with advertising in support of her and, you know, look. We talked about this a couple days before on the program. The mayor is a dangerous man in american politics right now for people who want to fight this battle. Yeah, whatever you want to spend on trying to advocate for guns, he will triple, double, quadruple, he will spend more. Hes got a limitless bank account, and as i said the other day, a lot of really smart political advisors who know that they want him to have an impact. And he cares about this. Hes ready to fight. Hes ready to play. Hes got time. He does. Hes got time. Hes got money. Hes got focus. And jon meacham, thats dangerous. Now, it may not affect a lot of republicans in safe republican seats in the southeast, but who is it going to affect . The 40 or so Democratic House members who have reflectively voted the way the nra has ordered them to vote. And you have, of course, a Democratic Senate candidates in 2014 in red states that have reflectively voted the way the nra has wanted them to vote. All that changes now with Michael Bloombergs money. I think moneys the theme of the morning. I think because you have the bloomberg victory in illinois. You also have governor christie taking the medicaid expansion, which is part of obamacare, which a lot of republican governors around the country have been struggling with. They want the money, but they have legislatures that have run against obamacare and all its forms. You wonder whether the christie decision and the shift in guns represents at least an opening for a kind of eisenhower republicanism. Well, lets talk about that. Obviously a reversal that could have implications on a future president ial bid. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie announced that his state will accept federal money from obamacare. Governor Chris Christie becomes the eighth republican governor to opt into the medicaid expansion, joining notables such as new mexicos susana martinez, michigans rick snider and rick scott of florida. And also john kasich. The guy is in really, really good conservative company there. Yeah. Christie emphasized that he was making the decision despite his personal ideology. I am no fan of the Affordable Care act. I think its wrong for new jersey. And i think its wrong for america. I fought against it and believe in the long run it will not achieve what it promises. However, it is now the law of the land. And i will make all my judgments as governor based on what i believe is best for new jersey. That last minute invitation, that was coming from cpac, theyre burning it now. They are. Are they really . What about rick scott . Among the republican governors who still oppose adopting obamacare are bobby jindal of louisiana, scott walker of wisconsin, and rick perry of texas. Meanwhile, one of the organizers of cpac explained why governor christie was not invited to speak at the meeting. They spoke to christies attack on republicans for delaying a vote on sandy relief saying in part, quote, he made it very hard for republicans in the congress at a time when we were trying to deal with fiscal restraint this past year. We were disappointed with his take on the Disaster Relief bill. Were hoping that next year hell give us a reason to invite him again. Al cardenas is a friend of mine. Hes a really great guy. Hes been a friend of mine for a really long time, and its his party. And its cpacs party. Yesterday i went on and on about why people didnt like Chris Christie. Ive been talking about glenn beck versus Chris Christie. Conservative websites immediately put up headlines that said, scarborough says cpac driven by hate and whatever. Okay. Its the people who are now trying to drive a guy with a 74 Approval Rating and one of the most conservative records in recent history out of an organization thats supposed to attract conservatives. Those people al, by the way, i think als statement there is legitimate. If you dont want him there for that reason, thats fine because there are a lot of House Republicans that believe that he sideswiped them when they needed his support. Thats fine. If peter king would have done the same thing, i would have done the same thing as anybodys homes were ravaged by hurricanes in the district. My point is the much larger point that doesnt have to do with cpac or al cardenas. Its that chris tis is being left out of a party with an Approval Rating in the 20s, and hes sitting, willie, with a 74 Approval Rating in the bluest of blue states, and hes doing it by breathing fire against public unions, by breathing fire against liberals, by breathing fire against big spenders. Hes balancing the budget, spending is down in real dollars. Hes prolife. He should be the conservative partys dream. And therein lies our problem. I mean, this i think this is a turning point in the Republican Party to show why we have a brand that puts us in the 20s. You just laid it out. Its not about policy. I mean, he cuts taxes. Hes prolife. Hes taken on the unions. Hes done everything conservatives would ask a governor to do. This is about hurt feelings. I mean, this is about him embracing, saying something nice about a president who helped him get through a very difficult time in a state thats about him calling out Speaker Boehner in the middle of the relief bill. Its about them feeling like he doesnt fall in line with where they want to be. Well, thats not a great line to be in right now. Hes staking out his own ground, and they dont like it. Chris christie sitting at a 74 Approval Rating in new jersey, and i thought it was so funny, somebody last night said Chris Christie doesnt have a future in the Republican Party. And i started laughing. No, this Republican Party, this part of the Republican Party thats lost five out of six president ial elections, this part of the Republican Party doesnt have a future in the Republican Party. Chris christies future, pretty damn bright. When this story broke and we heard that he wasnt invited to cpac, we joked that it might have been about the Hurricane Sandy issue. We thought that would be unbelievably ridiculous, and here we are. So anyhow, last night Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer gave his take on christies cpac snub. What did he say . I think this is a vast overreaction. Its a mistake. Hes a leading republican. Obviously president ial timber. Hes got the highest popularity of any governor, and hes in a blue state. Look, i wasnt very happy with what he did with sandy. I thought he deserved three months in quarantine. The three months is up. I let him out. We should have a wide tent. And if thats what it takes to win elections in the northeast and nationwide, lets go for it. Can i just say i will say is every day. I love Charles Krauthammer. Hes my favorite columnist. The guy is great. He is conservative. Hes tough. I dont agree with him on every single point, but the man understands, mika, at the end of the day yeah. Its about winning. You move the conservative agenda forward by winning, not by yelling at yourself and stirring up