the latest stop for the president-elect's thank-you tour. first off, let's talk about these allegations of russian hacking. donald trump is still refusing to say the russians were definitively involved. how is he doing so today? >> reporter: well, by tweet and then his top advisers, katy, again saying they believe that any discussion of this is really trying to somehow delegitimize the results of the election, which is a very separate issue than the matter of whether russian intelligence and all the way to the top of the russian government was directly involved with interfering with the electoral process. so, trump has continued to say that this is not something that has been proven and he has turned it back on the obama administration to suggest that if they were so certain of russian involvement, that they have stretched all the way to vladimir putin, which is nbc news' new reporting, why didn't they do something about it sooner? again, a situation of deflection, of not wanting to address what the obama administration says are facts, not simply conjecture or inference, and a way of trying to say they are trying to move forward and that somehow this is about linking it to the recount effort in states like this, pennsylvania. a very different set of facts. this is a case where trump and his top advisers are not addressing the underlying facts according to u.s. intelligence, as we have been reporting that not only russia but vladimir putin himself directly involved in how that information, the product of the hacking, would be utilized during the election season. >> there seems to be some disconnect between donald trump and his campaign, as we often -- or his transition, as we often saw as the campaign. one adviser told brian williams, i don't think you're wrong when it comes to the russian hacking. it's our position right now is that we're waiting for more information. we reject the notion that people would cyber attack our institutions. we're very upset about it. he went on to say that trump just needed more time to digest the information. is there any suggestion or any indication down the line that donald trump might be willing to accept this and to back some sort of investigation into this as congress is now saying louder and louder that they plan on doing? >> reporter: that, i think, is a strong argument because we have seen donald trump throughout the campaign season and now in the transition, wanting to hold open his options, his possibility. not trying reach a conclusion or lock himself into something too early. in fairness, there were many issues on the plate that he has to deal with. it also brings in the question of how engaged he is in the intelligence process with the daily briefing, which we know he does not do on a daily basis, but a couple of times a week. and gets other sources of intelligence briefing from those on his team. he also is working with and listening to republicans in congress on some matters that deal with legislation. well, congress is also very eager to explore in a bipartisan way, looking at what the russian hacking entailed and what the u.s. needs to do in terms of a response or a full understanding of what took place. so, i think when you see those divisions within the trump transition, you have people whose own credibility they don't want to diminish by looking like they don't agree with the facts known at this point, but also keeping the door open for donald trump to get there at some later point. maybe it's a timeline issue for donald trump. maybe it's related to not wanting to foreclose any options before he's actually president. hard to say at this point, but it is curious they leave such an open door between what some advisers are saying, what the facts seem to show, and what donald trump and his top officials are personally saying. >> kelly o'donnell, literally hanging onto her hat as she reports on the disconnect between donald trump and his -- >> reporter: i'm glad you're in the warm studio, my friend. >> me, too. i have to say, me too. let's go to nbc's caliperry, who is also outside and likely very cold as well. cal, talk to me about what is going on in that building hyped you, in trump tower. who is the president-elect meeting with today? >> reporter: so, there's a bit of a routine that has set in on trump tower. you have regular visitors, newt gingrich, who has become a senior adviser, going up and down the elevators, the trifecta of the communications staff, sean spicer, jason miller, kellyanne conway, up and down. representative peter king was here, peppered by the press corps over the conversation you just had, russian hacking, and he had this to say. >> i do think the russians were involved as far as hacking the democratic national committee. all the intelligence alleges that have briefed us up to now say they do not know what the motive was other than to disrupt the election and create doubt among the american people so that no matter who won, there will be a cloud over that person. >> reporter: and that has been the line from the transition team. we've heard this from representative king before. he has said this is a misinformation campaign, to sort of taint the presidency, the upcoming presidency of donald trump. that's the line we're getting from the transition team as well. now, this afternoon, president-elect trump will meet with a group of mayors, including the mayor of new orleans, who is here today to talk to him likely about issues including gun control. all of this before he pushes off to hershey, pennsylvania, which is today's stop on the thank-you tour. >> you can see live pictures next to cal perry right there. kellyanne conway taking pictures with tourists as she heads up to the offices in trump tower. it's become a tourist destination, even more of one now that you can take your picture next to a political celebrity. cal, i want to ask you one or question, about what was going on yesterday at trump tower. he had that tech meeting. in that tech meeting, once again we saw donald trump's adult children sitting in on the -- on the meeting. so, is there -- what do we make of his kids still being involved so publicly and visually with the transition? is this an indication we're going to continue to see them, even in the administration? >> reporter: i don't think there's any question about that. maybe not in the administration, but certainly senior advisers in the white house. there has been reporting that ivanka will be having some kind of an office in the white house. she has been in on these meetings. she was in on the leonardo dicaprio meetings which may seem flippant, but they're not. this was about global warming, something she's willing to take on. certainly some of the other children, the jared kushner factor when it comes to the middle east, that seems to number play. when it comes to that tech meeting, there they are sitting around the table with some of the most powerful people in the country. the legal aspect, the nepotism law, is still a question. it's not a done deal with the courts. we've heard from ari melber who says it is still a question. trump seems to be pushing back on those questions. certainly on the morning call this morning with the transition team, they pushed back and they said, it's not such a clear issue. that his children can be involved, certainly, when it comes to a role like senior advising. >> cal perry, somewhere in that puffy coat, that's my friend. thank you so much out there outside of trump tower. >> thanks, katy. moving on, nine people are dead. their killer laughed while confessing he did it and now a year later, it's finally up to jurors to decide if dylann roof was motivated by hate. prosecutors and defense attorneys presented their closing arguments this morning in the federal hate crimes trial in the man accused of the shooting at an historic black church in charleston, south carolina. the arguments come a day after testimony concluded. the final witness, polly shepherd, who roof chose not to shoot her so she could tell people what happened. jurors also heard the 911 call from that day. >> please answer. oh, god. >> 911. what's the address of the emergency? >> it's emanuel church. there's plenty of people shot down here. please send somebody right away. >> emanuel church? >> emanuel ame. 110 calhoun. >> there's people shot? >> yeah, he shot the pastor. he shot all the men in the church. please come right away. >> okay. my partner is going to be getting some help on the way while i get a little more information from you. okay? stay on the line with me. are you safe? >> he's still in here. i'm afraid. he's still in here. >> nbc's mariana is live in charleston. what is happening right now? >> reporter: katy, dylann roof wearing a light blue sweater, looking through some paperwork with that same expressionless face we have come to know throughout this trial. the judge is charging the jury right now. remember, these are hate crimes. 33 counts in association with the shooting that night, june 17, 2015, at mother emanuel church. the most important ones, counts 1 through 9, hate crime resulting in death because of a person's race or skin color. the jury will begin deliberating momentarily. it's a jury comprised mostly of white women. we may get a verdict as soon as today. >> nbc's mariana in charleston, south carolina. you'll be watching that and we'll bring you the news as it comes in. meanwhile, you may have seen the headline in your news feeds, say, on facebook, pope shocks the world, endorses donald trump for president. or fbi agent suspected of hillary clinton e-mail leaks found dead in apparent murder/suicide. faketories shared a spread all over social media. facebook now says they're going to try to do something about it. jacob joins me on how facebook plans to do this. >> so, obviously none of those headlines you read have any factual basis whatsoever, yet they were shared in extraordinary number of times on facebook in the lead up to the election. there were criticisms thrown around after the election that this fake news on facebook may have influenced the election in some way. mark zuckerberg, cheryl sandberg, executives at facebook have denied. now facebook has something to combat this fake news. it's a four-pronged plan. let me go through some of them with you. easier reporting. basically, being able to click a box when you suspect something to be fake. flagging stories as disputed. you or i would see facebook has checked this and thinks it's fake. informed sharing and disrupting financial incentives for spammers because advertising revenue is a huge reason a lot of this has spread. when it comes to what this is going to look like, we're also getting our first look at what facebook is doing. take a look at this. right here, if you believe a story is fake, can you can check that box at the bottom that says you suspect it is a fake news story. when you're looking at your news feed, this is what it will look like. on the forward-facing end it says, disputed by third-party fact-checkers. and those fact-checkers, it's important to note, are independent of facebook. they include snopes, fact-checker, associated press as well as abc news. one thing i want to say about that, people that distrust the mainstream media are the ones turning to fake news. i spoke with a fake news creator this afternoon, justin kohler, who i brought to our viewers on msnbc last week, he says he doesn't think that's going to help the cause, if some outlets of mainstream media in this coalition. >> jacob, i don't mean to sound hyperbolic but had we talk about spreading of fake news, ultimately the enemy is truth. it feels like it's a slippery slope, something like 1984 where the truth is the enemy -- i remember having a conversation with my mother about facebook, telling her to try and take her foot off the polic pedal and just post pictures about cats or something. it seems like the public doesn't necessarily want to know what is real and what is fake. there is such a divide in this country. is there a way, beyond this, that facebook can get out there and say, listen, you know, we're not even going to let this on our site? >> i honestly don't think so. firstly, i should say in defense of your mother and friends with her on facebook, i think her posts are perfectly acceptable. don't be so hard on her. i think that this is -- this is a hard thing for facebook to wrap their arms around. in fairness to facebook, this is not necessarily a problem solely of facebook's creating. if you look at polls from places like gallup, only 32% of americans trust the mainstream media, trust us. you know this better than anybody from standing in the press bin at countless donald trump rallies and hearing insults are hurled your way. i think as long as there's an appetite for news from sources other than places like us, facebook can do whatever they want. but again, you know, you'll talk to fake news creators and they'll say these folks will find a way around it. facebook is not going to -- whatever they do, they will not be able to stop all this news or fake news from getting out there, as hard as they try. >> it's not from facebook, you're absolutely right. they weren't the or begins of this. bitz been going on for decades. politician, mostly on the right, some on the left, de crying what they call the liberal media, refusing to take reporting from outlets they don't believe as real and true and stelg their constituents and supporters to never trust anybody on nbc, on nbc, cnn, abc, whatever. a wise man once said, news should not make you comfortable. it should make you uncomfortable. if it does make you comfortable, don't believe it. thank you. >> thank you. coming up, lots of questions about why donald trump's children were at his meeting with his top tech leaders, as we tarp you canning about with cal perry a moment ago. apparently the campaign promise of separating himself from his business is not happening. instead, it looks like all in the family white house edition. that's up for discussion in our "daily debate" a little later. first, nbc news exclusive. senior intelligence sources confirming russian president vladimir putin is directly linked to the russian hacking intended to undermine u.s. elections. that report is next. world ugly and messy. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. he wears his army hat, he gets awalks aroundliments. with his army shirt looking all nice. and then people just say, "thank you for serving our country" and i'm like, that's my dad. male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast. now that nbc news exclusive tying vladimir putin directly to the 2016 hacks. here's nbc's cynthia mcfadden with her story. >> reporter: this morning nbc news has learned from senior intelligence officials that russian president vladimir putin was personally involved in the campaign to undermine the u.s. election. the officials tell us that new information derived from diplomatic sources and spies working for u.s. allies points directly to the russian president. with one high-lel official saying putin's role was to direct how the hacked material from democrats was used. his objectives, multifaceted. it began, as one official says, as a vendetta against hillary clinton after the former secretary of state criticized the parliamentary elections back in 2011. >> we do have serious concerns about the conduct of the election. >> reporter: but trying to hurt clinton's presidential chances soon morphed into an effort to show corruption in american politics. attempting to split off key american allies, hoping to prove the u.s. is not a credible global leader. the stunning revelation comes after the cia's recent assessment that the russian government wanted to elect donald trump, a view that the fbi and other intelligence agencies don't fully endorse. and neither does the president-elect. >> there's great confusion. nobody really knows. >> reporter: trump calling the cia's assessment, ridiculous. >> they have no idea if it's russia or china or somebody. it could be somebody sitting in a bed someplace. >> reporter: this morning the russians seemed to agree, telling nbc's richard engel, western media have gone beyond the rooch of reason. now with evidence against the russians mounting, the question is, will president obama respond before he leaves office? >> that was nbc's cynthia mcfadden. john heilemann is the managing editor of bloomberg politics. let's talk about that report that cynthia just did. her sources are saying that vladimir putin not only knew about this, but he directed how the leaks would come out, giving them to wikileaks and whatnot. how long can donald trump refuse to acknowledge that russia was behind these hacks? >> i don't like to ever answer questions when asked to me about someone who knows more about the toc than i do. since you know more about donald trump's brain than anybody on the planet, i feel a little inadequate to this task. i don't know how long he can refuse because a lot of his tendencies to the truth defy the norms of how politics work. i think what's clear is there's going to now be some kind of an inquiry on a very large and bipartisan basis. >> that's the question. how long can he go against congress? >> look, we'll get into this -- into this hearing. i think one of the key questions right now is whether or not it's going to happen on capitol hill or whether or not it's going to happen in a 9/11 commission style, independent way. there seems to be a partisan split on that question, about where the right location for this hearing is. it seems it would be hard for the republican party in total to line up with trump. in so many ways we've seen the party fall in line, in a way that seemed unthinkable six months ago behind trump and trump's version of reality. it seems to be the party -- you saw a little with marco rubio at the end of the campaign and now, the party which has a long-term interest in not just in confronting russia, because a lot of people have long-established policy and ideology, but the notion that rubio explained which is this could come for us next. >> protecting themselves because it doesn't necessarily mean they're always going to focus on the democrats. >> right. that's the difference between -- one of the things we know about donald trump, whether you like him or don't like him, is he's not part of the institutional fabric of washington, d.c., the institutional fabric of the republican party. he doesn't think about the long-term repercussions 10, 20, 30 years down the road. one thing about republicans, especially the senate, they are very careful about those things. you will see, there will be a clash coming, i think, on this front. not between democrats and donald trump, but between republicans and donald trump on this. >> what does this mean for tillerson? >> i think it means that his -- i agree with you. you said you thought tillerson would have an easier time getting through confirmation than a lot of people think. i think these two things will be wrapped up together. i think his confirmation hearings will exclusively revolve around these issues. they'll try to make it around other things. but this is going to be central. i think he's a very skilled man who's achieved a great deal in life and handling a senate confirmation hearing will not be that hard for him. to say the right things won't be that hard for him. it will be hard to deny him the head of -- the head of the state department on that basis. i think it could be messy. again, as they're bound up together, complicated politically for donald trump. >> on that same thread, michael flynn, donald trump's nsa, we have a photo of him we'll put up on screen right now, of him sitting right to putin's right, that dinner almost exactly one year ago honoring the tenth anniversary of the russian propaganda network, russia today. does michael flynn survive very long in this administration given all of the close ties to russia, given this hacking, given the outcry in congress that's starting and given the intelligence community's distrust of michael flynn? >> well, he will survive as long as donald trump wants him to survive. again, if you think about what we know about trump from his political career, his brief political career, is that he has valued loyalty until he's decided not to value loyalty. >> rudy giuliani. >> he's kept people close to him until he's no longer kept them close. corey lewandowski, paul manafort. >> what happened to corey lewandowski? >> that's a very good question. he still talks to donald trump and they're still on friendly terms, but the reality is donald trump has been someone when there has been a steep enough political price to pay, there have been times when he's been perfectly happy to throw people under the bus. whether there that will be michael flynn or not, who knows. hard to predict that. it's clear to me that that is the most of all the appointments we've seen, including steve bann bannon, has the most fragile undergirdings and could easily give way in the not totally didn't future. >> john heilemann, i want you to stay for the whole show but i know -- >> i can. >> no, get out of here. >> you have a cocktail? i'll stay all day. >> it's 1:00. it's past noon. >> it's cocktail hour somewhere. >> thank you so much. time for our microsoft pulse question of the day, get you guys involved out there. nbc news exclusively reveals u.s. intelligence officials believe with a high level of confidence that russian president putin became personally involved in the covert operations to interfere with our presidential election. do you think putin's action had a direct impact on the election's outcome? let us know what you think at pulse.msnbc.com. and president-elect trump still questioning russia's involvement. meantime, reports of the senate foreign relations committee is planning an investigation into russia's role starting in january. we'll ask senator ed markey about those plans coming up ♪ everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? 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[suspensful music] we have your fingerprints soon the safe., a photo of you opening the safe. a post using the hashtag "#justrobbedthesafe" so, what are we supposed to think? switching to geico could save you a bunch of money on car insurance. excellent point. case dismissed. geico. because saving fifteen percent or more on car insurance woo! because saving fifteen percent or more on car insurance is always a great answer. . did you see where on wikileaks it was announced they were paying protesters to be violent? $1,500. did you see another one, another one came in today, this wikileaks is like a treasure trove. >> donald trump loved his wikileaks during the campaign. you probably saw it if you tuned in here and saw any of donald trump's speeches towards the end of the campaign. he aggressively used the content of those stolen e-mails released by wikileaks in his speeches to supporters in order to get them to believe him and to not trust hillary clinton. those comments now viewed, though n a totally new context. as u.s. intelligence officials tell nbc news that vladimir putin was personally involved in directing the hacking efforts of the dnc and john podesta. joining me is senator ed markey of massachusetts, who sits on the senate foreign relations committee. senator markey, thank you for joining me. first off, i want to talk to you about what is going to happen in the senate foreign relations committee. ap is reporting they plan to hold an open hearing in january to examine russia's activities. is that the case? >> well, yeah, senator bob corker, republican from tennessee, has announced that he's going to have a heang on this issue, as it relates to the totality of our relationship with the country of russia. and it's going to be very timely because this issue, not only relates to the hacking into our democratic process and also the confirmation of rex tillerson, the ceo of exxonmobil, as our next secretary of state. >> do you have a problem as of now with rex tillerson being the secretary of state? do you have misgivings? >> well, right now exxonmobil controls leases for drilling in russia, which is the size of the state of wyoming. if ever there was a conflict, it has to be resolved, it is that. and the united states actually has sanctions on russia because of their incursion into the ukraine. so, when mr. tillerson is before our committee, one, we want to know how he's going to resolve all those conflicts because putin right now is not playing a constructive role in syria, aleppo. we need him to do that. he's still in the ukraine. we need to be tough on him on that issue. and we now have pretty much evidence that he has hacked into and played a role in exporting his electoral manipulation skills into the american political process. >> well, this news ce out over the summer. we asked donald trump about it. he brushed it off and invited them to release hillary clinton's e-mails. but what did the obama administration do to make sure that the american public knew they were taking it seriously, that foreign powers knew they were taking it seriously, to hammer home that a foreign government was hacking into our political systems? did the obama administration do enough over the summer to make sure that this was a big story? >> i think the obama administration made it quite clear there was hacking into our political system. i think everyone in the country knew there had been a hack at the democratic national committee -- >> do you think everyone in the country was taking it as seriously as they are taking it now? >> i think, unfortunately, the media took more interest in the actual information inside of the leaks than the fact a foreign government had hacked into our democratic process. and so without question, as we go forward, we're going to have to get right to the heart of that issue. how did putin use his own kgb experience, his own operatives, to hack into our democratic process in the same way, unfortunately, that richard nixon did in 1974 -- in 1974 for trying to manipulate an election. >> senator mark y slightly different topic for you, but i would like to get you on the record f you can. politico is quoting a handful your democratic colleagues saying they're open to work with republicans, not to repeal obamacare but to replace parts of it. do you think that is too far-reaching or would you be on board with that effort? >> obamacare is a central promise that was made to all americans, that health care is a right and not a privilege. right now the only thing we know about the republicans is that they have declared war on obamacare. i have yet to see any plan from any republican that would ensure that each one of the 20 million people who now have coverage would retain their coverage while still ensuring pre-existing conditions and children up to the age of 26 would retain their coverage as well. nothing has been on the table -- >> if they give you that plan, would you be open to considering it? >> a plan that ensures that ultimately there is not an atrophy of obamacare that guarantees that right to health care, of course, we would be open to hearing that kind of a proposal. thus far, no republican has made that proposal to anyone i know in a way that's intel gibl. >> we'll wait and see. senator ed markey, thank you for joining me. a major humanitarian effort overseas. relief organizations trying to help thousands of civilians evacuate aleppo. we'll have the latest coming up next. 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( ♪ ) ♪ they tell me i'm wrong ♪ ♪ to want to stand alongside my, my love ♪ ♪ whoa, talkin' 'bout my love ♪ ♪ talkin' 'bout my, my love ♪ you ready, dad? ♪ whoa-ooh ♪ ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh ♪ ♪ whoa-ooh keeping the power lines clear,my job to protect public safety, while also protecting the environment. the natural world is a beautiful thing, the work that we do helps us protect it. public education is definitely a big part of our job, to teach our customers about the best type of trees to plant around the power lines. we want to keep the power on for our customers. we want to keep our community safe. this is our community, this is where we live. we need to make sure that we have a beautiful place for our children to live. together, we're building a better california. happening now, jurors began deliberating minutes ago in that charleston church shooting trial. dylann roof is accused of killing nine people during a bible study. roof could face the death penalty if he is convicted. we'll bring you any developments as soon as they happen. yahoo! announcing more than 1 billion users were hacked in 2013. marking it as the largest data breach in u.s. history. and this is the second time the internet giant announced a major hack. just this year alone. turning to syria, thousands fleeing eastern aleppo. residents escaping by bus and by ambulance. it's part of a massive operation to evacuate as many as 50,000 civilians and fighters from the city decimated by nearly six years of civil war. they flee as syrian president, bashar al assad, declares history is being made with the defeat of the insurgence in aleppo. dan rivers has more from that city. >> reporter: well, after four long years, the battle for aleppo is finally over. the rebels are boarding the 25 buses behind me to be taken out of the city into the countryside. this has been a torturous negotiation which has broken down at time and seen resumed shelling into that rebel enclain. we've heard injuries to civilians and fighters that remain inside. finally those differences have been smoothed out between the different vested interests in this conflict, turkey, russia and iran have finally come together to make this happen. there will, no doubt, be this huge sigh of relief across this city and across the world as finally the fighting and suffering that has punctuated this war and has drawn in people from around the world to watch the plight of the people trapped inside, it's all finally over. the wider war in syria, though, is very far from that. this is an historic day as the siege of aleppo is finally over. >> hopefully that will last. that's dan rivers in aleppo. let's see your response to our pulse question. nbc news exclusively reveals u.s. intelligence officials believe with a high level of confidence that vladimir putin became personally involved in the covert operations to interfere with our presidential election. so, do you think putin's actions had a direct impact on the election's outcome? 94% of you say yes. that's quite a large number. 6% of you say no. there is still more time to vote and let your voice be heard. go to pulse.msnbc.com. and this video of president-elect trump and three of his children meeting with top silicon valley execs and getting a lot of attention today. how appropriate is it for the trump children to be sitting in on transition meetings after the president-elect says he's given control of his businesses over to them? we'll hear from both sides in our "daily debate" coming up next. so, the trump team doesn't appear concerned about potential conflicts of interest. questions being raised over the role of the president-elect's children in the transition. ivanka trump just tweeted this photo of her sib lynlings atten her father's meeting with the tech titans. and kelly-on-canne conway talke about a possible role for ivanka in the trump administration? >> ivanka and jared will make an announcement in due course. i think we would benefit with them in the administration if that can happen. >> joining us, roland martin, of news one now and kris wilson, gop pollster and former executive director of the texas republican party. guys, i know you are both on different sides of this issue, so roland, let's get to you first. how do you feel about donald trump's children sitting in at the very least, the latest thing, on this tech summit meeting yesterday? >> they have no business in the meeting. jack dorsey, the ceo, co-founder of twitter, wasn't even in the meeting. i saw my buddy sean spicer, he's a great guy, saying, only so much room at the table. let me ask you, who was more valuable at the table yesterday, co-founder of twitter, who is also the founder and ceo of square or three of trump's children? i'm sorry, get your kids, sit them in the back row, and put the ceo at the table and not the folks leading your company. i'm sorry. >> his kids are his advisers. chris, i go to you, sean spicer, as roland mentioned, defended the president-elect's actions. let's listen to sean and we'll react on the other side. >> it's not like anything nefarious or sneaky or transparent going on. we've been very clear about the role of his family. >> they've been very clear, made it transparent. chris, is that okay? >> i think it is. picking a cabinet and going through these meetings, it's not more than qualifications and experience, it's about finding people who share your vision and who the president-elect can get along with. these criticisms were given also toward hillary clinton from republicans. that was probably a mistake as well. look, as you know, i was critical of trump during this campaign. i worked for ted cruz. i was on the other side of this primary. looking at this, i find the only peer who are upset are liberals disagree with the picks being made or -- >> those who did not vote for donald trump, so it's quite a few -- it's quite a -- >> if we're going do -- >> here's my question for you, chris. does donald trump not have anybody else he can talk to who are not his children that he can get advise on out this sort of thing? >> i think what he's goingo do, he'll find those people who share his vision, who understand that vision, and can act on that vision. frankly, it was a small campaign. there was not a lot of people around him. from that standpoint, i doubt there are really three or four more qualified people than his children, kellyanne conway, sean spicer, reince priebus, people like that, to be involved in helping make these decisions. >> i just saw your look on -- >> i think they're good decisions. >> roland, do you think there are more qualified people than trump's children? >> oh, my god. you're from texas. i'm born and raised in houston. that dog won't hunt. the bottom line, to have three of your kids at the table when there are far more people qualified. chris mentioned transparent. here's the deal -- >> this is -- >> chris, chris, chris, hold tight. they're still running his business. we don't know about their business ties. they have not been transparent. he hasn't released his taxes. we don't know who he owes. the point is, if you don't have room at the table for the ceo of twitter, who also is the ceo of square, because your kids are taking up space, i'm sorry, that's not going to fly. they should not be sitting at the table. >> roland, hold on. one second. i want to say this in defense of what donald trump is doing. his voters fully expected this to happen. they like his kids. they understood that donald trump is going to do things differently. he was going to be a businessman. >> doesn't matter. >> why doesn't it matter? he won. why doesn't it matter? >> no, no, because -- >> it doesn't matter. >> no, because this is about -- >> it absolutely matters. >> this is about the presidency. what we do not want is we don't want the president's children and the president profiting off of the white house. it's not up for sale. >> until that happens, roland -- >> chris, ten seconds. go now or you're both cut off. >> those charges are unfounded. that's ridiculous to say. elections have consequences. the fact is he won. if he wants to have his kids involved, it's his right, until there's evidence they're doing something wrong. >> a spirited discussion. roland martin and kris wilson, thank you very much. >> thanks. we just hashed out potential conflicts of interest with the president-elect's children. what about his own legal and ethical conflicts as he assumes presidency? we'll ask former chief white house ethics lawyer after the break. to do the best for your pet, you should know more about the food you choose. with beyond, you have a natural pet food that goes beyond telling ingredients to showing where they come from. beyond assuming the source is safe... to knowing it is. beyond asking for trust... to earning it. because, honestly, our pets deserve it. beyond. natural pet food. ♪ everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. trust number one doctor recommended dulcolax constipated? use dulcolax tablets for gentle overnight relief suppositories for relief in minutes and stool softeners for comfortable relief of hard stools. dulcolax, designed for dependable relief he wears his army hat, he gets awalks aroundliments. with his army shirt looking all nice. and then people just say, "thank you for serving our country" and i'm like, that's my dad. male vo: no one deserves a warmer welcome home. that's why we're hiring 10,000 members of the military community by the end of 2017. i'm very proud of him. male vo: comcast. the president-elect tmp has not yet provided specifics from how he will separate himself from his business interests and real estate holdings. joining me now is our professor at the university of minnesota law school. you know donald trump was supposed to be having a news conference today talking about how he's going to separate himself. he's not doing this. i want to ask you specifically about one important cause that's been out there. the monoyouument clause. for our viewers out there glo glossing over when they hear we say that and how donald trump can be in violations of it. >> it addresses the concerns that we have today. i just heard a lot of discussions of the preside president-elect's children of their conflicts there. there is some serious issues. we suffered the cyber attack and we had other attempts to infiltrate our political system and the founding father envision this, when they drafted the constitution, they envision the possibility and of foreign government trying to -- that's why we required the president to be natural born citizen. we have the provision of the constitution and the monument clause that says nobody holding a position of trust with the united states government may receive gifts and salaries. that's what a monument means. profits and benefits from foreign government. president-elect trump if he's to assume office and according to constitution, must -- divide himself up from any businesses. we have donald trump doing businesses with foreign government. we have donald trump with businesses over seas. then there is also the dc hotel that is just down the street from the capitol. what about foreign governments or diplomats or leaders that'll come to choose to stay at his hotel. could they be influencing donald trump? >> well, of course, they could be. the founding fathers did not in the constitution of requiring of the demonstration of influence. it is simply prohibited to be doing business with foreign governments. those diplomatic cannot be stayed with his hotel. >> richard, i sounds like donald trump is not going to be listening to his advise and die vesti divesting and at least not right now. tell a donald trump supporter, why they should want him to do that? i am concerned about this and all americans ought to be. it is not just the hotel. we have loans and for large amounts on properties and the united states and we also have ten nates who are far on banks. it is unconstitutional. i think that the electors need to be told before they meet. they need to be told by the president elect of what he's going to do to make sure that he can take office in accordance with the constitution. >> it is not only that issue but the issue of russian hacking and the information that many people went out there before the electors officially go and cast their ballots. former chief white house ethics lawyer. i am sorry, i want to talk more but we run out of time. >> at farmers, we have seen almost everything so we know how to cover everything. literally crawling, but there is some movement on the eastside overpass. getting word of another collision. 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