Is you have a clear leader, the person he said is not going to be toyed with, the person who understands when a bad deal is in front of him and hes ready to walk away from a bad deal, something this country should be able to do. And i dont see any way fox will have a successful debate now when you have a clear frontrunner who has decided to walk away from this debate because they cant be treated fairly on the debate stage. Lets start off with peter alexander. Hes off in des moines, iowa. Peter, what is the campaign saying 3 01 p. M. Eastern time right now that trump wont show up at the debate . We have the fox news debate tomorrow night, then the other debate, 90 minutes that ted cruz has challenged trump to. Donald trump finally responded to ted cruzs challenge. Even though i beat him in the first six debates, especially the last one, ted cruz wants to debate me again. Can we do it in canada . Again, revisiting that line that has been so effective, sort of his way of trolling ted cruz, who, of course, was born in canada. Yesterday and the other day saying he would probably best serve as canadian prime minister. This fox news debate going on without trumps participation, fox news telling nbc news that they will not, if trump does not show, put an emplty podium up o that debate stage tomorrow night like the same situation that existed before when rand paul said he would not participate in the lower, lesser debate when he didnt make the cut for the debate that evening. So everything moves forward as if donald trump will not be there and we wait to hear what trump himself will say about it. He is, ironically, scheduled to be on fox news tonight to discuss his feud with fox news. Which they said was pre scheduled, right . Correct. Peter, i want to ask you about a pretty Heated Exchange that you had last night, actually, with donald trump. Lets play that, then ill ask you about it. In 1999, you said you were pro choice in all respects. And what did i say . You didnt read it. Read the full statement of what i said. Are you a trutrustworthy . Im very trustworthy, more so than you because you didnt read the whole thing. Im very pro choice when it comes to abortion. Why did you say before i hate the concept of abortion . Do you apologize . Do i apologize for reading your words . For not reading my words. No, no. Do you apologize for not reading my words . It guest tesets testy. Peter, explain what this was all about. What were you questioning about in the first place . I was following up with a series of attacks that had been leveled against donald trump particularly in the state of iowa whereie van je evangelicalt vote will be critical. Several abortion groups said trump cannot be trusted on the topic of abortion, saying voters should be urged to vote for anybody but trump. These were attacks echoed by ted cruzs campaign, playing a clip from a 1999 interview with ted russert on meet the press. For clarity, heres what donald trump said then. Would President Trump ban abortion . Im very pro choice. I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything i stand for. I cringe when i listen to people debate the subject. But still, i just believe in choice. Reporter so you heard him say he just believed in choice despite the fact that he abwhor the concept of abortion. We were asking him about this issue because its an issue that evangelicals are talking about. I think what makes that a Testy Exchange between us is that donald trump for so long has been able to filibuster the debate when its a topic he doesnt want to focus on right now. Its not a topic he wants to focus on. Later during the News Conference yesterday he was asked if he believed that plan b, the plan b, the morning after pill, should be viewed as abortion effectively as well, if he supported that, and it was something that he said to the reporter, i will get back to you on that. All issues he doesnt want to focus on in these final 100plus hours before the caucus. Peter alexander out in des moines for us. Peter, thanks so much. So how is the rest of the gop field reacting to this debate shakeup . For more im joined on the phone now by nbcs Hallie Jackson. Shes also out in des moines, iowa. Hallie, what has the reaction been about, donald trump challenged by ted cruz. Donald trump put out a tweet saying maybe they should have it in canada. We saw ted cruz tweet out that statement that donald trump has to make America Great again, but theirs says making the debate great again. Youre also seeing a strategy of trying to portray largely of donald trump appearing weak, donald trump appearing as though he is scared to take on meghan kelly, scared to take on the rest of the republican field. Youre seeing rubio try to portray himself as a little above all this, calling whats happening between trump and cruz an entertaining side show, but rubio emphasizing hes going to focus on what matters, which to him is trying to nominate a party for a democratic nominee. This is a way for the campaign to flip this and look at how its going to help their message and how it will help the other candidates push their message out, whatever that message is. Whether its attacking donald trump, whether its pushing their own narrative they would like to get out there. Ted cruz has done that in this oneonone debate challenge, as youre aware of, but clearly trying to show the two men at odds, but clearly it will be ted cruz in the front if donald trump does not show up. Oouyouve been out talking t caucus goers, particularly evangelical caucus goers . Right. Were actually at the Evangelical Church now. Theyre actually key what happens in iowa, about 60 , and the last cycles of electorates have been made up of catholic voters. Ive been talking to them today, if they wanted donald trump to be there, and the answers seemed to be generally both way. People said yes, people said no. One young pastor who has never caucused before, he wasnt old enough the last time around, hes planning to caucus monday and he says i would like to see donald trump on that debate stage because i havent made up my mind. Someone else said donald trump has a pretty big body of work that if we want to go back and look at what he has to say, we have ways to do that. We dont necessarily need to see him on the debate stage. Whats interesting to me is one gentleman i spoke with did talk a little bit about something ted cruz has been pushing, which is, if donald trump doesnt appear on stage, is that disrespectful to the people of iowa . This particular person felt it was an iowa thing, its an iowa debate. Donald trump should be there because hes trying to get the iowa vote. So thats resonating with a small population of the people here in iowa. Thats the question hallie just raised, will trumps gambit pay off . Its something hes taken a risk for and gotten a lot of attention for it. Steve kornake, will it pay off for him . Donald trump is making a calculation here that theres more to be gained by not taking part in this debate than there is by boycotting it, by going into a battle with fox news. He thinks he will look tough in this process. This is a new poll in iowa. This came out about an hour ago. Trump now in this poll has the lead by seven points over ted cruz. Notably, the last time monmouth took a poll in iowa, ted cruz was ahead, so this shows clear momentum for donald trump. Donald trump believes this gambit is whats going to push him over the top. What i can tell you also in the last two hours, one of the most influential voices on the right, somebody who everybody was looking to this morning. How will he come down on donald trump versus fox news . Rush limbaugh. Rush limbaugh, when he had a tv show, it was produced by roger ails. Hes the fox news chief right now. Where would Rush Limbaugh come down . He came down on the side of donald trump. Listen to this. Donald trump knows that by not showing uch, hep, hes owni entire event. Some guy not even present will end up owning the entire event, and the proof of that is fox news last night. This is where this gets tough for me. I was stunned watching fox news last night. Fox news was acting like they had been jilted at the altar. Dont devote the rest of the night to how a candidates not showing up because of you. Its really interesting to see how this is playing out. What it really looks like here is that donald trump came into this week probably looking for a way to get out of the fox debate, looking for a way to make a show of it. The problem was he didnt have a way to do it, short of making it look like a very petty, v vindictive thing against meghan kelly. Then fox came out with that statement, not a statement you would expect a News Organization to put out. That gave donald trump a completely legitimate pretense to say, im skipping this debate, im not getting a fresh shake from these guys, and im looking tough doing it. Hes got Rush Limbaugh on his side. Well see how iowa plays out tomorrow. Im going to swivel over here and talk about whats allowed, whats not allowed when it comes to these debates . The rnc and the networks spend a lot of time organizing. Can he just not show up and thats okay . He can not show up, and he can complain all he wants about who is in the debate and who is doing the moderating. I think this is ultimately a fight about rules, right . What the rnc did was say the different News Organizations are able to do this. They gave the criteria, meaning who is in the debate, and criteria participation and the format, which basically means, is it this reporter asking a question or not . Is it three reporters . Is it fact check . They said News Organizations get to do that for good reason, that they wanted this to be factual and clear and have credibility and have different News Organizations doing that. Donald trump, who has harsh words for everybody, who talks about how he shouldnt be too pc, has now decided that fox news, and specifically meghan kelly, who he has relentlessly attacked in sexist terms, we should note, is now not being pc enough in how she covers or questions him. Thats what this is all about, obviously. He may ultimately find a way to get political benefit out of it in the same way he may get a lot of people talking. But the rules were set, and he agreed to certain rules including going along with the public nominee, going along with these debates where the rnc put it out. This isnt a surprise. Ultimately hes trying to make a bet now and thread a needle and say its tough to run away when you dont get your way. He would put it differently. He would say when you dont get the deal you want, sometimes you walk away and thats my leverage dai thats what the guys said this morning on morning joe. This is in iowa, so he may ultimately do this debate and then say, ha, ha, i got everyone to jump and get excited about it, or he may skip the last debate in iowa and his Closing Argument will be, i cant handle it. I cant handle it and i have a lot of pyrotechnics about explaining it, but at the end of the day, ive been in the iowa caucus, politics aside, the voters in iowa will look very closely at these candidates. Its all up to the voters. Its interesting to see how this gambit will end up if he cant make it to iowa to the debate stage. Coming up, president obama hopes Bernie Sanders in the oval office today will try to read the tea leaves on that. What that means for the democratic race just days before iowa. Rrow starts today. All across the state the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, and the lowest taxes in decades, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. Like in the hudson valley, with world class biotech. And on long island, where great universities are creating next generation technologies. Let us help grow your companys tomorrow, today at business. Ny. Gov now mother, we are settlers. O directv . Ive settled for cable all my life. But directv has been number one in Customer Satisfaction over cable for 15 years. We find our satisfaction elsewhere. The boy has his stick and hoop. The girl her faceless doll. And you have your cabbages. And you. Have your foot stomping. I sure do. vo dont be a settler. Get rid of cable and upgrade to directv. Call 1800directv. Isnt it time to let the real you shine through . E to severe plaque psoriasis. Introducing otezla, apremilast. Otezla is not an injection, or a cream. Its a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. Some people who took otezla saw 75 clearer skin after 4 months. And otezlas prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. Dont take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. Otezla may increase the risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Side effects may include diarrhea, nausea, upper respiratory tract infection, and headache. Tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Ask your dermatologist about otezla today. The white house called it an informal meeting. Bernie sanders called it just a discussion. The democratic president and the candidate one on one. Bernie sanders spoke about the president and the 2016 president ial race. The president and i discussed this morning a number of issues, Foreign Policy issues, domestic issues, occasionally a little bit of politics. I think what the Iowa Campaign ends up being about is one word, and that is turnout. Msnbc editor joins me now. Five days until iowa. Have we mentioned that . New polls out, and the numbers in iowa almost no change in two weeks. 49 to 45 with Bernie Sanders just ahead in the margin. But when you dig in, he just mentioned turnout. That does seem to be important because clinton is doing better with people who turn out. That was the same with president obama in 2008. Traditional caucus goers did turn out for Hillary Clinton, but he brought out so many nontraditional caucus goers, these first time voters, tons and tons of students, and thats what Bernie Sanders was trying to do this time. He was trying to replicate that coalition. If he does, he will probably be successful. Hes doing a lot of rallies at University Campuses this week. He is, but he cant just win those big population venues. Because its a caucus, just turning out zillions of people in those University Towns wont get him the votes. He needs a strategy and we think clinton has a better one at this point. Clinton came out to talk about this comment on monday. President obama was talking to politico and talked to the press. I want to give the president s comment first and then Bernie Sanders comment today. I think bernie came in with the luxury of being a complete long shot and just letting loose. I think hillary came in with the both privilege and burden of being perceived as frontrunner. And i know there was some discussion the other day about a politico sbrinterview where he tipping the scale toward Hillary Clinton. I dont believe that at all. I think he and the Vice President have tried to be fair and evenhanded in the process, and i suspect they will continue to do that. The white house said this meeting was long planned to have Bernie Sanders at the white house. Do you buy his assessment that theyre even kheeel, that they have no preference and the president is not taking sides . The president is probably smart to not officially take sides. That politico interview that we heard a snippet of, he was favorable toward Hillary Clinton. He was talking about her being a true progressive that really was progressive, but placating those voters for bernie that just think shes too mainstream. Even though Bernie Sanders is trying to be the heir apparent, hes a very different character and hes in many ways rejecting the obama legacy. Hes talking about getting rid of the Affordable Care act and creating a medicare plan. Hes a different kind of character and the president is making clear that, really, hillary is more in the mode of an obama democrat, which is very interesting given their huge aka acrimony in 2008. Were less than six hours away from tonights town hall on the flint water crisis hosted by Rachel Maddow. Coming up, rachel will tell us who will be on stage with her tonight and why she chose to hold the town hall at a school. Does the smell of a freshly bound presentation fill you with optimism . Do you love your wireless keyboard more than certain family members . Is your success due to a filing system only you understand . Does printing from your tablet to your wireless printer give you a jolt of confidence . If so, you may be gearcentric. Someone who knows that the right office gear helps you do great things. And theres one place that has it all. Office depot officemax. Gear up for great. Rachel maddow will be hosting a town hall on the water crisis there. She brought attention to the National Spotlight on the water crisis back in december. Shes been reporting on it ever since. I had a chance to sit down with rachel before she left for flint and i asked her why she chose to do the town hall right now. The interesting thing about the National Coverage sort of surging into flint is that i still feel like there is a couple things that are being missed. And one of them is the voices of the people of flint. The whole reason that we started covering this story is because people in flint were screaming bloody murder. They knew something was wrong. They were trying to get accountability for it. And they had no locally elected officials who they could appeal to with their problems. Who are you going to be speaking with at the town hall . Is it mostly an effort to try to get the voice of the people out there and a group of Flint Residents, or are you also going to have local lawmakers, people that are actually yes, all of that. Which will make for a p